Question about Bitcoin network spammer

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Quote from: dansus021 on December 18, 2023, 10:59:41 PM

and look at the image, red is everywhere the difficulty is seems gonna hit 5% and per block you can earn 3 bitcoins on average wooooowwwwww guysss whoever doing this transaction I think he want make the bitcoin network busy so he get those delicious fees Shocked

Miners love it, exchanges love it, early adopters (of BRC20 shittokens) love it so much that they even made Ordinals on other blockchains. Like I said previously, it's no more than a money-grabbing tactic as these junk collections have no real utility besides stress-testing (i.e. spamming) the network's memory.

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Ordinal is fuc*ing crazy the new token that is listed on Bybit or Binance sats and RATs hit all time-high

and yesterday I saw the transaction reach 400+ sats for a medium fee

and look at the image, red is everywhere the difficulty is seems gonna hit 5% and per block you can earn 3 bitcoins on average wooooowwwwww guysss whoever doing this transaction I think he want make the bitcoin network busy so he get those delicious fees Shocked

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Quote from: digaran on November 19, 2023, 09:44:51 PM

Have you checked all those little squares to be actually what you assume to be ordinals shit? Could also be a lot of normal small transactions in between ordinals spam.

Anyway, a miner will very likely choose those transactions for his block template to mine next that pay him the maximum amount of transaction fees in addition to the current block subsidy. A miner usually then doesn't care what those transactions are in his block template as long as they aren't invalid or would make his next block invalid.

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Quote from: logfiles on November 17, 2023, 07:57:09 PM

Just to wrapped up the madness
You guys remember polygon? An Ethereum layer-2 project that was meant to be a solution to Ethereum's high fees?
Well, their gas fees spiked by 1,000% amid Ordinals-inspired token craze Grin

Title:

Quote

Polygon gas fees spike 1,000% amid Ordinals-inspired token craze

Article:

Quote

Gas fees on Ethereum layer-2 Polygon surged more than 1,000% to reach a peak of $0.10 as users inundated the network with the minting of Ordinals-inspired tokens dubbed POLS.

Common, this is pure clickbait, you could have 10 000% there and it would till be under a dollar while you're looking right now at 4$ in fiat vale for the smallest on BTC, so despite 1000% is still 2.5% of what we're experiencing.

Quote

POS chain? 6m transactions in last 24 hrs. 170 TPS on average. 1mn+ MATIC burnt by the protocol. The chain worked smoothly, gas fees went crazy though but no reorgs or 0 blocks etc.

I wonder how the hell is still possible, can't wait for another youtube video explaining how this break the laws of the universe. /s

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Can someone tell me whether these small dust spam were the only option for the pool to include in a block or were there normal transactions with a somewhat same fee rate but didn't get into the block?
This is block 817565 notice those little weasels occupying most of the space? These little parasites should be dealt with.

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Quote from: Synchronice on November 16, 2023, 03:32:36 PM

Quote from: DaveF on November 16, 2023, 12:25:28 PM

Look at it as enforced savings. You don't want to move your BTC to buy something since it costs so much in TX fess so you don't spend it. More for you later :-)

In terms of investment, yes, you are right but in terms of bitcoin ecosystem, I think it's not a good idea to hold it. I respect the fundamentals of bitcoin, it's ability to help me do transactions without involving 3rd parties and it's ability to improve my privacy. So, since I respect this, I think I should use Bitcoin often. The more often we use it, the more popular it gets and more adopted it becomes.

Quote from: DaveF on November 16, 2023, 12:25:28 PM

But, seriously. This too shall pass. No idea when, but sooner or later the 'next big thing' in crypto will appear and BRC20 will stop being used and fees will drop and things will get back to normal. Next week? Next month? Next year? No idea, but it will happen.

-Dave

You are right, that's guaranteed to happen over time if we don't start WW3.

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 16, 2023, 02:05:53 PM

Basically it is like an advertisement for ltc and doge.

That's what I am saying constantly and I think it will be good if we increase the block size but I remember you said that was pointless but didn't have time to discuss how high block size won't lower fees but I'll be glad if you have time right now to explain that.

I think I was saying the issue is BTC is an oil freighter. Really good for security and large sends of high value.

but it sucks to use an entire oil freighter to move a quart of oil.

BTC sha-256 10 blocks an hour

DOGE/LTC scrypt 120 blocks an hour

this is the dynamic (in my opinion) that drives the issue.

BTC more gear and more more security 12 x 4mb blocks less space for tx
Doge/ltc less gear and power less security 120 x 4mb blocks more space for tx

So you have 1 mill in coin you say fuck it do btc I want security I will pay with btc

so you have 10 dollars in coin you should say fuck high cost security I will pay with LTC/Doge

this dynamic can not go away via bigger blocks

btc goes to 8mb vs 4mb we double the storage.

ltc and doge laughs does nothing and now has 6x the storage still 6x better for small sends.

btc needs to go to 64mb and that is only 8x the storage it has now

ltc/doge does nothing because they still have 1.5 the tx room at no programming or any other thing.

So expanding the block size to 128mb would get you at more storage for tx then ltc /doge

or simply push use a smaller delivery system for small value.

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Quote from: DaveF on November 16, 2023, 12:25:28 PM

Look at it as enforced savings. You don't want to move your BTC to buy something since it costs so much in TX fess so you don't spend it. More for you later :-)

From a storage of value perspective yes but from an adoption perspective. No.
Think about the services and online stores that make or accept payments in bitcoin. Prolonged high fees with get them thinking of alternatives.

Just to wrapped up the madness
You guys remember polygon? An Ethereum layer-2 project that was meant to be a solution to Ethereum's high fees?
Well, their gas fees spiked by 1,000% amid Ordinals-inspired token craze Grin

Myleschetty

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Quote from: pooya87 on November 17, 2023, 12:57:51 AM

Quote from: Synchronice on November 13, 2023, 07:57:04 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on November 09, 2023, 01:51:34 AM

They basically created a fake market where scammers create garbage and sell it to newbies who think they can make a profit. Because that garbage (the Ordinals) has a separate value in that market, the newbies don't mind paying a high fee on-chain to transfer that garbage around trading it for possible profits.

This makes things difficult for normal bitcoin users wanting to send bitcoin transactions since a spam attack with incentive to spam is going on.

I am completely frank right now, I just don't understand why someone creates garbage and why someone pays tons of money on it?

I found this ordinal on okx.com
Can anyone really explain, why does it have value and why does someone buy it? Is it a masterpiece? No, it's a piece of garbage. Why should someone pay bitcoins in it? And if we keep in mind that mempool is spammed, then it means that tens of thousands of people create this garbage every day. I have never seen any masterpiece listed on NFT marketplace, there are only pixelated shits everywhere.

Everyone please check this: https://ordiscan.com/inscription/40034415
What's the point of this ordinal? It has text $OG$ only. Do people really pay money to gain the ownership of $OG$ on blockchain? I'm losing my mind.

Also, why are pixelated arts popular instead of arts like Da Vinci's Last Supper, Salvador Dali's The Persistence of Memory, The tower of babel by Pieter Bruegel the elder and so on.

It makes no sense I know

It is all about marketing to be able to sell dog shit to anyone who buys it. If they told them it is garbage, nobody would have even bothered looking at it. But when they use the term "art" to sell garbage, it gives the idiots the false feeling that it may actually have a value.

It is not new either. I remember in 2017 when the hype started for the first time, they were using anything they could. For example for a while they were trying to tie ICO scams with anything in real world that they could. Two major topics I recall were patient files (for health care system stored in blockchain) which was total bullshit and energy (where they basically hoped to create PetroToken{s} like PetroDollar and sell it to the fools).
Ever since 2017 they have changed face a lot but the fundamentals of the scam remain the same:
ICO, IDO, IBO, IEO, ITO, STO, DeFi, NFT, Ordinals

There's no doubt that what we are seeing in the market is the replication of old scam strategy in a new form but I am still surprised how the idiot that bought the garbage all in the name of art still chose to buy it despite the lost of some NFT collectors years ago and what Casey Rodarmor said about making Bitcoin fun again is the only reason why he created Ordinal NFTs and inscriptions.
I believe won't much attention soon just like Colored coins and Counterparty.

pooya87

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Quote from: Synchronice on November 13, 2023, 07:57:04 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on November 09, 2023, 01:51:34 AM

They basically created a fake market where scammers create garbage and sell it to newbies who think they can make a profit. Because that garbage (the Ordinals) has a separate value in that market, the newbies don't mind paying a high fee on-chain to transfer that garbage around trading it for possible profits.

This makes things difficult for normal bitcoin users wanting to send bitcoin transactions since a spam attack with incentive to spam is going on.

I am completely frank right now, I just don't understand why someone creates garbage and why someone pays tons of money on it?

I found this ordinal on okx.com
Can anyone really explain, why does it have value and why does someone buy it? Is it a masterpiece? No, it's a piece of garbage. Why should someone pay bitcoins in it? And if we keep in mind that mempool is spammed, then it means that tens of thousands of people create this garbage every day. I have never seen any masterpiece listed on NFT marketplace, there are only pixelated shits everywhere.

Everyone please check this: https://ordiscan.com/inscription/40034415
What's the point of this ordinal? It has text $OG$ only. Do people really pay money to gain the ownership of $OG$ on blockchain? I'm losing my mind.

Also, why are pixelated arts popular instead of arts like Da Vinci's Last Supper, Salvador Dali's The Persistence of Memory, The tower of babel by Pieter Bruegel the elder and so on.

It makes no sense I know

It is all about marketing to be able to sell dog shit to anyone who buys it. If they told them it is garbage, nobody would have even bothered looking at it. But when they use the term "art" to sell garbage, it gives the idiots the false feeling that it may actually have a value.

It is not new either. I remember in 2017 when the hype started for the first time, they were using anything they could. For example for a while they were trying to tie ICO scams with anything in real world that they could. Two major topics I recall were patient files (for health care system stored in blockchain) which was total bullshit and energy (where they basically hoped to create PetroToken{s} like PetroDollar and sell it to the fools).
Ever since 2017 they have changed face a lot but the fundamentals of the scam remain the same:
ICO, IDO, IBO, IEO, ITO, STO, DeFi, NFT, Ordinals

Synchronice

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Quote from: DaveF on November 16, 2023, 12:25:28 PM

Look at it as enforced savings. You don't want to move your BTC to buy something since it costs so much in TX fess so you don't spend it. More for you later :-)

In terms of investment, yes, you are right but in terms of bitcoin ecosystem, I think it's not a good idea to hold it. I respect the fundamentals of bitcoin, it's ability to help me do transactions without involving 3rd parties and it's ability to improve my privacy. So, since I respect this, I think I should use Bitcoin often. The more often we use it, the more popular it gets and more adopted it becomes.

Quote from: DaveF on November 16, 2023, 12:25:28 PM

But, seriously. This too shall pass. No idea when, but sooner or later the 'next big thing' in crypto will appear and BRC20 will stop being used and fees will drop and things will get back to normal. Next week? Next month? Next year? No idea, but it will happen.

-Dave

You are right, that's guaranteed to happen over time if we don't start WW3.

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 16, 2023, 02:05:53 PM

Basically it is like an advertisement for ltc and doge.

That's what I am saying constantly and I think it will be good if we increase the block size but I remember you said that was pointless but didn't have time to discuss how high block size won't lower fees but I'll be glad if you have time right now to explain that.

philipma1957

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Quote from: DaveF on November 16, 2023, 12:25:28 PM

Quote from: logfiles on November 16, 2023, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: Synchronice on November 16, 2023, 09:20:49 AM

Yes, I can check them and save them in JPG. In the end, my jpg file and paid NTF will be exactly the same in pixels. I just googled and 29,983 people paid a sum of $91 800 000 in The Merge NFT.

Like the old adage goes, "A fool and his money are soon parted"

I don't really give a damn about how the gullible ordinal or BRC20 battalion spend their Bitcoins. The issue is, they are making it harder for an average person to use and maintain the Bitcoin network. Yes, miners are happy but for how long if most regular user stop using bitcoin and opt for centralized shitcoin networks like BNB.

As an example, I have not used Ethereum network for a long time now and to this date I don't even think of it, but at the beginning I actually liked the smart contract nature of Ethereum network and used it regularly as an average user.

Look at it as enforced savings. You don't want to move your BTC to buy something since it costs so much in TX fess so you don't spend it. More for you later :-)

But, seriously. This too shall pass. No idea when, but sooner or later the 'next big thing' in crypto will appear and BRC20 will stop being used and fees will drop and things will get back to normal. Next week? Next month? Next year? No idea, but it will happen.

-Dave

and those that want the higher fees will find a new method to jack the fees up.

High fees will come back time and time and time again.

one reason is scrypt has a vested interest in high btc fees. So they mine 1.2 million in coin a day.

give them 100 days and they can jack fees on the btc chain for a while. which in turn makes ltc/ doge look better.

Basically it is like an advertisement for ltc and doge.

So if 120 million gets mined spending 1 million to promote ltc/doge every 100 days is worth it.

obviously it does not have to be every 100 days it could be every 200 days.

DaveF

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Quote from: logfiles on November 16, 2023, 11:05:50 AM

Quote from: Synchronice on November 16, 2023, 09:20:49 AM

Yes, I can check them and save them in JPG. In the end, my jpg file and paid NTF will be exactly the same in pixels. I just googled and 29,983 people paid a sum of $91 800 000 in The Merge NFT.

Like the old adage goes, "A fool and his money are soon parted"

I don't really give a damn about how the gullible ordinal or BRC20 battalion spend their Bitcoins. The issue is, they are making it harder for an average person to use and maintain the Bitcoin network. Yes, miners are happy but for how long if most regular user stop using bitcoin and opt for centralized shitcoin networks like BNB.

As an example, I have not used Ethereum network for a long time now and to this date I don't even think of it, but at the beginning I actually liked the smart contract nature of Ethereum network and used it regularly as an average user.

Look at it as enforced savings. You don't want to move your BTC to buy something since it costs so much in TX fess so you don't spend it. More for you later :-)

But, seriously. This too shall pass. No idea when, but sooner or later the 'next big thing' in crypto will appear and BRC20 will stop being used and fees will drop and things will get back to normal. Next week? Next month? Next year? No idea, but it will happen.

-Dave

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Quote from: Synchronice on November 16, 2023, 09:20:49 AM

Yes, I can check them and save them in JPG. In the end, my jpg file and paid NTF will be exactly the same in pixels. I just googled and 29,983 people paid a sum of $91 800 000 in The Merge NFT.

Like the old adage goes, "A fool and his money are soon parted"

I don't really give a damn about how the gullible ordinal or BRC20 battalion spend their Bitcoins. The issue is, they are making it harder for an average person to use and maintain the Bitcoin network. Yes, miners are happy but for how long if most regular user stop using bitcoin and opt for centralized shitcoin networks like BNB.

As an example, I have not used Ethereum network for a long time now and to this date I don't even think of it, but at the beginning I actually liked the smart contract nature of Ethereum network and used it regularly as an average user.

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Quote from: seek3r on November 13, 2023, 08:11:09 AM

Looks like you grabbed some pictures of the "Goosinals" NFT-Collection.
You can check magiceden.io for some other collections aswell - the Bitcoin Frogs for example have a floor price of atleast .0604BTC and people are still buying them.

Yes, I can check them and save them in JPG. In the end, my jpg file and paid NTF will be exactly the same in pixels. I just googled and 29,983 people paid a sum of $91 800 000 in The Merge NFT.

Quote from: ABCbits on November 15, 2023, 06:00:10 AM

Quote from: Synchronice on November 13, 2023, 07:57:04 AM

Everyone please check this: https://ordiscan.com/inscription/40034415
What's the point of this ordinal? It has text $OG$ only. Do people really pay money to gain the ownership of $OG$ on blockchain? I'm losing my mind.

Actually you get ownership of BRC-20 token called $OG$. And i expect few people actually betting their money on such token.

And then what? What benefit do I get? Is there really anyone in this world who cares about whether I own BRC-20 token called $OG$ or not? And what benefit do I get by owning that stupid text $OG$? It's stupid, right? That's what I am saying, I don't understand why people bring value to that an why is there money made in nonsense.

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Quote from: Synchronice on November 13, 2023, 07:57:04 AM

Everyone please check this: https://ordiscan.com/inscription/40034415
What's the point of this ordinal? It has text $OG$ only. Do people really pay money to gain the ownership of $OG$ on blockchain? I'm losing my mind.

Actually you get ownership of BRC-20 token called $OG$. And i expect few people actually betting their money on such token.

Quote from: digaran on November 14, 2023, 01:40:44 PM

How can I remove and purge all of these garbage data from a full node? Is that even possible? I consider Bitcoin's blockchain as a sacred ground, or as an ancient monument which should not be vandalized by these garbage spams.

I don't recall any Bitcoin full node software which let you delete specific data after it's been validated. Your only option is running pruned node which store some recent blocks.

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How can I remove and purge all of these garbage data from a full node? Is that even possible? I consider Bitcoin's blockchain as a sacred ground, or as an ancient monument which should not be vandalized by these garbage spams.
I honestly blame developers for allowing such atrocities and now by not trying to stop it. Let's go use doge guys, who is with me? Lol

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 13, 2023, 04:38:29 AM

Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 04:18:10 AM

At some point people will realise they keep losing money in fees and things will go back to normal. This is my estimation.

I thought we reached that point at the start of last month. The fact that fees suddenly dropped to the minimum and a month later suddenly went up again makes me think there are only a few who create millions of "Ordinals".

exactly as there are wealthy people playing multiple pow algos.
spamming the btc chain by any means possible is good for the other pow algos.

We will repeat this pattern over an over and over. It is tough reality for us. we need to adapt as much as we can.

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Quote from: Synchronice on November 13, 2023, 07:57:04 AM

I am completely frank right now, I just don't understand why someone creates garbage and why someone pays tons of money on it?

I found this ordinal on okx.com
Can anyone really explain, why does it have value and why does someone buy it? Is it a masterpiece? No, it's a piece of garbage. Why should someone pay bitcoins in it? And if we keep in mind that mempool is spammed, then it means that tens of thousands of people create this garbage every day. I have never seen any masterpiece listed on NFT marketplace, there are only pixelated shits everywhere.

Looks like you grabbed some pictures of the "Goosinals" NFT-Collection.
You can check magiceden.io for some other collections aswell - the Bitcoin Frogs for example have a floor price of atleast .0604BTC and people are still buying them.

The bad thing is that in addition to the original rip-off, there are other scams with fake markets. If you don't pay attention and sign it incorrectly, the entire wallet will be drained.
It might sound primitive at first but newcomers in particular often fall victim to it.

Quote from: Synchronice on November 13, 2023, 07:57:04 AM

Also, why are pixelated arts popular instead of arts like Da Vinci's Last Supper, Salvador Dali's The Persistence of Memory, The tower of babel by Pieter Bruegel the elder and so on.

It's just kind of a fake market that has been artificially inflated by the creators. Many people are blinded by supposed sales and dont realize that they are also manipulated.
You cant seriously believe that some prices have actually been realized. Wink

Newcomers in particular are blinded by these quick transactions. And then the trap snaps.

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Quote from: pooya87 on November 09, 2023, 01:51:34 AM

They basically created a fake market where scammers create garbage and sell it to newbies who think they can make a profit. Because that garbage (the Ordinals) has a separate value in that market, the newbies don't mind paying a high fee on-chain to transfer that garbage around trading it for possible profits.

This makes things difficult for normal bitcoin users wanting to send bitcoin transactions since a spam attack with incentive to spam is going on.

I am completely frank right now, I just don't understand why someone creates garbage and why someone pays tons of money on it?

I found this ordinal on okx.com
Can anyone really explain, why does it have value and why does someone buy it? Is it a masterpiece? No, it's a piece of garbage. Why should someone pay bitcoins in it? And if we keep in mind that mempool is spammed, then it means that tens of thousands of people create this garbage every day. I have never seen any masterpiece listed on NFT marketplace, there are only pixelated shits everywhere.

Everyone please check this: https://ordiscan.com/inscription/40034415
What's the point of this ordinal? It has text $OG$ only. Do people really pay money to gain the ownership of $OG$ on blockchain? I'm losing my mind.

Also, why are pixelated arts popular instead of arts like Da Vinci's Last Supper, Salvador Dali's The Persistence of Memory, The tower of babel by Pieter Bruegel the elder and so on.

ABCbits

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Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 04:56:35 AM

Quote from: seek3r on November 13, 2023, 04:53:02 AM

As long as there are people who fall for this crap and give away their sats for it, there will probably be no end to it. Cheesy

But Bitcoin has a huge advantage against this. It is finite. So it may last long, but it is deterministic that at some point it must end. Am I wrong? My question is genuine, I don't mean to cause impressions. But I sincerely fail to realise why this madness keeps going on.

Yes, it's finite especially because minimum output amount/dust limit. But majority Bitcoiner want it to end quickly.

Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 05:34:56 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on November 13, 2023, 05:18:18 AM

How many spam emails are spammers willing to create? Answer: billions. As long as it's profitable, it won't stop.

But sending an email is free. Inscribing ordinals isn't. Am I wrong?

Free email provider have various ways to prevent spammer or bot from using their service though.

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Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 05:34:56 AM

But sending an email is free. Inscribing ordinals isn't. Am I wrong?

Nothing is free. Sending a billion emails is expensive. All that matters is profitability. As long as someone earns from this, it won't stop.

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 13, 2023, 05:18:18 AM

How many spam emails are spammers willing to create? Answer: billions. As long as it's profitable, it won't stop.

But sending an email is free. Inscribing ordinals isn't. Am I wrong?

LoyceV

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Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 04:41:20 AM

So don't you think it is going to stop? I mean, how many ordinals are those few people willing to create?

How many spam emails are spammers willing to create? Answer: billions. As long as it's profitable, it won't stop.

Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 05:09:52 AM

Ok, but if people want to buy NFTs, for any reason (even if I don't understand it), why would they choose ordinals against other chains?

Because "Bitcoin" sounds a lot better than any shitcoin they can use.

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Quote from: seek3r on November 13, 2023, 05:03:07 AM

Why does this madness continue? With such hype, it can be easily described with one word: GREED
The great weakness of many people is that at a certain point, greed wins over reason. This is no longer a secret and is being shamelessly exploited.
Cant wait for the next bullrun, Can't wait for the next bullrun, where every second post is about FOMO. Cheesy

(Fear of missing out)

Ok, but if people want to buy NFTs, for any reason (even if I don't understand it), why would they choose ordinals against other chains? This is why I believe it is somewhat of an organised attack.

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Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 04:56:35 AM

But Bitcoin has a huge advantage against this. It is finite. So it may last long, but it is deterministic that at some point it must end. Am I wrong? My question is genuine, I don't mean to cause impressions. But I sincerely fail to realise why this madness keeps going on.

Thats right. But let's not hope it doesn't take too long.

Why does this madness continue? With such hype, it can be easily described with one word: GREED
The great weakness of many people is that at a certain point, greed wins over reason. This is no longer a secret and is being shamelessly exploited.
Cant wait for the next bullrun, Can't wait for the next bullrun, where every second post is about FOMO. Cheesy

(Fear of missing out)

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Quote from: seek3r on November 13, 2023, 04:53:02 AM

As long as there are people who fall for this crap and give away their sats for it, there will probably be no end to it. Cheesy

But Bitcoin has a huge advantage against this. It is finite. So it may last long, but it is deterministic that at some point it must end. Am I wrong? My question is genuine, I don't mean to cause impressions. But I sincerely fail to realise why this madness keeps going on.

seek3r

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Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 04:41:20 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on November 13, 2023, 04:38:29 AM

The fact that fees suddenly dropped to the minimum and a month later suddenly went up again makes me think there are only a few who create millions of "Ordinals".

So don't you think it is going to stop? I mean, how many ordinals are those few people willing to create?

As long as there are people who fall for this crap and give away their sats for it, there will probably be no end to it. Cheesy

It has always been the case that demand determines supply. I don't know why so many people get involved in such a gamble. Some of these ordinal NFTs have really amazing floor prices.

I just hope that this “emerging market” goes away quickly. Firstly because of the fees but mainly to protect unsuspecting soldiers of fortune. Wink

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 13, 2023, 04:38:29 AM

The fact that fees suddenly dropped to the minimum and a month later suddenly went up again makes me think there are only a few who create millions of "Ordinals".

So don't you think it is going to stop? I mean, how many ordinals are those few people willing to create?

LoyceV

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Quote from: apogio on November 13, 2023, 04:18:10 AM

At some point people will realise they keep losing money in fees and things will go back to normal. This is my estimation.

I thought we reached that point at the start of last month. The fact that fees suddenly dropped to the minimum and a month later suddenly went up again makes me think there are only a few who create millions of "Ordinals".

apogio

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Quote from: dansus021 on November 12, 2023, 10:52:46 PM

So the conclusion is this not gonna stop right guys? till we can solve the ordinal problem? Cry

I don't think it is not gonna stop. Over-paying fees is a problem for all of us. At some point people will realise they keep losing money in fees and things will go back to normal. This is my estimation.

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Quote from: apogio on November 09, 2023, 01:19:07 PM

You think NFTs will gain popularity again?

Yes

just look at the the transaction of ordinal there is bunch of transaction back and forth meaning the NFT still alivveeeee guysss hahaha but seriously recent news said that open sea laid off his employee https://fortune.com/crypto/2023/11/07/opensea-layoffs-50-percent-mansion-katy-perry-russell-brand-hollywood-9-million/

Quote from: LoyceV on November 10, 2023, 05:40:46 AM

Ordinals are just a scam to convince people to pay much more money for Bitcoin dust.

It is not a scam it is actually a tool so the miner gets a lot of money from it hahah but who knows? Grin

Quote

I can sell you a can of expired Unox chicken soup for $500 right now Tongue

That doesn't make it art.

That chicken soup is pure art Loycev Grin

especially if you sell it on ordinal it can even be worth more than 100K usd Grin

So the conclusion is this not gonna stop right guys? till we can solve the ordinal problem? Cry

ABCbits

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 10, 2023, 08:17:37 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on November 10, 2023, 05:58:18 AM

And at time of writing this post, statoshi.info report there's about 128.3 million UTXO. Although i have no idea how much UTXO growth impact RAM and I/O usage.

Isn't the size of chainstate caused by all those UTXOs?

Yes.

Quote from: LoyceV on November 10, 2023, 08:17:37 AM

It's currently 7.8 GB. Ideally, that should all fit in RAM, but my Bitcoin Core uses much less. Except for the IBD, looking up about 2000 transactions on disk every 10 minutes isn't much of a problem.

Yeah, the biggest problem is still when someone perform IBD. Although FWIW you'll need more than 7.8GB of free RAM since the size would be bigger after it's been de-serialized.

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 10, 2023, 05:40:46 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 09, 2023, 02:20:54 PM

Its sad that you accept BTC as a new form of wealth but that you can't accept the value of a new art form

There's a reason the NFT market crashed so hard. It's not art, and it's not rare. It's a scam created to convince gullible people to hand over their money hoping to get rich quick.

Ordinals are just a scam to convince people to pay much more money for Bitcoin dust.

Some things just don't work when digitalized.

The thing that makes physical art fetch so much money at auctions is the fact that you can't just draw it from scratch (or use a 100 megapixel camera to try to replicate it on an A0 sheet of paper).

But an NFT can just be screenshoted, byte-copied, ... etc. and while people will (correctly) argue that this does not make a genuine copy of the NFT, the average person who knows nothing about crypto couldn't care less because they can't tell the difference anyway.

Unlike for example a real Louis Vuitton handbag and a fake one. Or two pairs of Nike shoes.

LoyceV

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Quote from: ABCbits on November 10, 2023, 05:58:18 AM

And at time of writing this post, statoshi.info report there's about 128.3 million UTXO. Although i have no idea how much UTXO growth impact RAM and I/O usage.

Isn't the size of chainstate caused by all those UTXOs? It's currently 7.8 GB. Ideally, that should all fit in RAM, but my Bitcoin Core uses much less. Except for the IBD, looking up about 2000 transactions on disk every 10 minutes isn't much of a problem.

Quote

NFT already possible on LN and various Bitcoin sidechain, it's just almost nobody use it.

Ordinal spammers (or should I say scammers?) need to use Bitcoin's name to get people's money. "LN" isn't familiar enough, I guess. It would be so much better if they promote LN while spamming LN. Unlike Bitcoin, LN has no problem with millions of dust transactions.

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Quote from: NotATether on November 09, 2023, 04:00:04 AM

So yes, it is keeping the miners afloat,

More like it is giving miners an undeserved additional reward. Otherwise miners were doing fine before the spam attack began and will do fine even if it ends right now.

Quote from: ABCbits on November 10, 2023, 05:58:18 AM

I agree disk space is really minor concern. But i'd like to point out UTXO growth which demands more RAM or I/O speed.

Every resources that is wasted is bad for those who actually run a full node. More so when they run it on their PC (as opposed to renting some remote server with much larger free space than your PC).

ABCbits

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Quote from: stompix on November 09, 2023, 01:37:15 PM

Quote from: NotATether on November 09, 2023, 04:00:04 AM

Now, if you look here: https://ordiscan.com/, you can see two key statistics about the Ordinals rush:

1. 13.5 GB of our disk space is being wasted by our nodes storing these inscriptions inside transactions. That is 13.5GB used in just 9 months!
Extrapolating, that means that you will be wasting roughly 15GB of storage each year on worthless Ordinal tokens, as long as the demand is constant.
2. Ordinals users have paid over 1385BTC in transaction fees for inscribing this stuff. That means miners have earned literally 1385BTC from this time period or over 50 million dollars altogether.
So yes, it is keeping the miners afloat, but the disk space usage (and the associated spike in mempool fees) is quite annoying regardless.

Diskspace would be used anyhow if there would be usage, and the complaining for the 15 GB, sorry it's ridiculous.

I agree disk space is really minor concern. But i'd like to point out UTXO growth which demands more RAM or I/O speed.

Quote from: ABCbits on June 06, 2023, 07:55:15 AM

With BRC-20 (and similar protocol), the worst part isn't storage but rather UTXO growth. In last 2 months, total UTXO is increased by about 15 millions.

Source: https://www.statoshi.info/d/000000009/unspent-transaction-output-set?orgId=1&refresh=10m&viewPanel=6&from=now-1y&to=now

And at time of writing this post, statoshi.info report there's about 128.3 million UTXO. Although i have no idea how much UTXO growth impact RAM and I/O usage.

Quote from: dansus021 on November 09, 2023, 08:52:56 PM

Anyway is this possible that Ordinal using system like layer 2 on ETHereum using Rollup transaction ?

NFT already possible on LN and various Bitcoin sidechain, it's just almost nobody use it.

apogio

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 09, 2023, 02:20:54 PM

Its sad that you accept BTC as a new form of wealth but that you can't accept the value of a new art form

Obviously you have yet to understand their value.

you likely think the art below is worthless.

I realise that art in general is important, I love art. Until NFTs were invented, people would go to auctions to observe physical art and would try to acquire it. They still do, I guess.

Digital art is important nowadays. It can be used in websites, digital marketing etc. However, I think digital art can't be valued properly through NFTs and it can't be properly protected using them.
Digital art is convenient. Mistakes can be easily erased. But, the purpose of digital art in my opinion can't be the same as this of the physical art.

In general, I think digital art can't be equal to physical art because they have a different purpose.

Physical art has flaws that can't be easily undone. Physical art can be portrayed in your living room easily. It has a smell. It is actual art. The way you maneuver your pen or brush can lead to something unique.

LoyceV

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Quote from: apogio on November 09, 2023, 01:19:07 PM

You think NFTs will gain popularity again?

I hope not! That would mean more people lose their money. I've clarified my post, "blows up" could indeed be interpreted as a pump, while I meant it as a complete failure.

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 09, 2023, 02:20:54 PM

Its sad that you accept BTC as a new form of wealth but that you can't accept the value of a new art form

There's a reason the NFT market crashed so hard. It's not art, and it's not rare. It's a scam created to convince gullible people to hand over their money hoping to get rich quick.

Ordinals are just a scam to convince people to pay much more money for Bitcoin dust.

Quote

you likely think the art below is worthless.

It's not art, it's a can of expired chicken soup. Whoever pays $68,750 for it only does so hoping someone else is going to pay more. To most people who aren't part of that, it is indeed worthless.

Quote

Learn from me as I could have purchased the item below for under $500 when I was young

I can sell you a can of expired Unox chicken soup for $500 right now Tongue

That doesn't make it art.

philipma1957

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Quote from: dansus021 on November 09, 2023, 08:52:56 PM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 08, 2023, 10:44:00 PM

From the last three days I have a transaction which is stuck, it is painful.

It is very painful Cry

Quote from: stompix on November 08, 2023, 10:59:11 PM

No conspiracy, ordinal inscription!

https://ordiscan.com/address/bc1plqdm0ndmnfzgzhfd8jcm6xrfmdur3j36cxnsj3rrfqdlz0mvczeqch89pz
https://ordiscan.com/address/bc1p0jk9wyzkuspp7pcpmalcexlpxgn2rua2m7w6hhr260rpk8ceyg9qewku7d
https://ordiscan.com/address/37q5GbpAX6ZJgcVNh9G71CCBTA7tfkk9LE

So it is because of the ordinal transaction, I know the ordinal creates a lot of noise but a couple of weeks ago bitcoin back to the normal fee for even 2 sat/Vb, and today when bitcoin reach 37K the transaction is growing crazy, Maybe this transaction was accompanied by people who wanted to take profit and send their money to the exchange well make sense Undecided

and what the heck is this, NFT??

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 08, 2023, 11:23:58 PM

And I can tell you that miners are loving it.

And at the op miners get paid to guard your wealth. Right now miners are barely hanging in there above water.

This is why people push ordinals to

a) create miner relief
b) make pressure on btc to scale its fees better.
c) give miners and coin holders the option to say fuck you to btc and switch to scrypt.

It is

the fee is almost a half of the bitcoin reward there are also people who pay 1,101 sat/vB This man has balls Cheesy

and found an article on Quora that basically said like this - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-purpose-of-spamming-Bitcoin-mempool-with-lots-of-transactions-with-a-low-fee-which-would-barely-ever-be-confirmed

2. Strategic Fee Manipulation: In some cases, individuals or entities may spam the mempool with low-fee transactions to manipulate the fee market. By congesting the network, they can artificially drive up transaction fees, creating an advantage for their own transactions or attempting to disrupt the activities of other participants.

The difference is they use a high fee to do the transaction.

Anyway is this possible that Ordinal using system like layer 2 on ETHereum using Rollup transaction ?

It is not desired as the entire idea 💡 behind high fees is to pressure btc to alter fee scaling. Or have smaller transactions move to scrypt.

dansus021

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Activity: 1988

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 08, 2023, 10:44:00 PM

From the last three days I have a transaction which is stuck, it is painful.

It is very painful Cry

Quote from: stompix on November 08, 2023, 10:59:11 PM

No conspiracy, ordinal inscription!

https://ordiscan.com/address/bc1plqdm0ndmnfzgzhfd8jcm6xrfmdur3j36cxnsj3rrfqdlz0mvczeqch89pz
https://ordiscan.com/address/bc1p0jk9wyzkuspp7pcpmalcexlpxgn2rua2m7w6hhr260rpk8ceyg9qewku7d
https://ordiscan.com/address/37q5GbpAX6ZJgcVNh9G71CCBTA7tfkk9LE

So it is because of the ordinal transaction, I know the ordinal creates a lot of noise but a couple of weeks ago bitcoin back to the normal fee for even 2 sat/Vb, and today when bitcoin reach 37K the transaction is growing crazy, Maybe this transaction was accompanied by people who wanted to take profit and send their money to the exchange well make sense Undecided

and what the heck is this, NFT??

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 08, 2023, 11:23:58 PM

And I can tell you that miners are loving it.

And at the op miners get paid to guard your wealth. Right now miners are barely hanging in there above water.

This is why people push ordinals to

a) create miner relief
b) make pressure on btc to scale its fees better.
c) give miners and coin holders the option to say fuck you to btc and switch to scrypt.

It is

the fee is almost a half of the bitcoin reward there are also people who pay 1,101 sat/vB This man has balls Cheesy

and found an article on Quora that basically said like this - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-purpose-of-spamming-Bitcoin-mempool-with-lots-of-transactions-with-a-low-fee-which-would-barely-ever-be-confirmed

2. Strategic Fee Manipulation: In some cases, individuals or entities may spam the mempool with low-fee transactions to manipulate the fee market. By congesting the network, they can artificially drive up transaction fees, creating an advantage for their own transactions or attempting to disrupt the activities of other participants.

The difference is they use a high fee to do the transaction.

Anyway is this possible that Ordinal using system like layer 2 on ETHereum using Rollup transaction ?

philipma1957

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Quote from: apogio on November 09, 2023, 01:19:07 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on November 09, 2023, 10:18:22 AM

The NFT market is very quiet nowadays, and this seems to be the next thing. Until it blows up, after which someone will create another money maker for themselves.

You think NFTs will gain popularity again? Haven't people already realised what it is about?

Its sad that you accept BTC as a new form of wealth but that you can't accept the value of a new art form

Obviously you have yet to understand their value.

you likely think the art below is worthless.

I thought is was garbage as a kid back in the 60's I was very fucking wrong.

Here you are with the opportunity to support a new form of art work and you simply think it is worth less.

Learn from me as I could have purchased the item below for under $500 when I was young and instead much like you and NFT's I thought it was garbage.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: dansus021 on November 08, 2023, 09:54:57 PM

2. Do you think this transaction will stop? I want to send $50 and require a fee of $15 Cry

whattttt

Depends on how much time you're willing to wait in the line. If you set 12 sat/vb, which is about $1.5 for average segwit native transaction, you will have it confirmed in about a day.

Quote from: stompix on November 09, 2023, 01:37:15 PM

1. 13.5 GB of our disk space is being wasted by our nodes storing these inscriptions inside transactions. That is 13.5GB used in just 9 months!

That's just true. Stop complaining about the disk space. If you run your own full node, you don't care about other people's transactions. Why would Ordinals be any different? It's the same as stating that a couple of gigabytes are spent every year on Binance's transactions; completely irrelevant to me.

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Quote from: NotATether on November 09, 2023, 04:00:04 AM

Now, if you look here: https://ordiscan.com/, you can see two key statistics about the Ordinals rush:

1. 13.5 GB of our disk space is being wasted by our nodes storing these inscriptions inside transactions. That is 13.5GB used in just 9 months!
Extrapolating, that means that you will be wasting roughly 15GB of storage each year on worthless Ordinal tokens, as long as the demand is constant.
2. Ordinals users have paid over 1385BTC in transaction fees for inscribing this stuff. That means miners have earned literally 1385BTC from this time period or over 50 million dollars altogether.
So yes, it is keeping the miners afloat, but the disk space usage (and the associated spike in mempool fees) is quite annoying regardless.

Diskspace would be used anyhow if there would be usage, and the complaining for the 15 GB, sorry it's ridiculous.

Let's ignore that there is 600 GB torrent of One Piece with +200 seeders and over 1000 leechers and, just to make a point let's increase this to 1 TB (60x) a year, so that would make the around 40 000 nodes across the galaxy spend at max 50$ for extra space, that's a full, wow $2 million spent by the average Joe to keep decentralization!
So $2 million, would buy you 1000 S19k Pro (I went for the cheapest $/th), that can hash 120 Petahash/s, so around 0.02% of the global hashrate!

Now, if people are not willing to collectively spend $2 million a year to keep the network decentralized with increased disk storage needs, how can one envision mining not becoming fully centralized in a few years?
People paid in fees in the last 24 hours $6.5 million enough to buy with just today's fees 18731 8TB Evo ssd, in two days the fees would cover 8TB ssd for every node.

apogio

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Quote from: LoyceV on November 09, 2023, 10:18:22 AM

The NFT market is very quiet nowadays, and this seems to be the next thing. Until it blows up, after which someone will create another money maker for themselves.

You think NFTs will gain popularity again? Haven't people already realised what it is about?

LoyceV

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Quote from: NotATether on November 09, 2023, 04:00:04 AM

2. Ordinals users have paid over 1385BTC in transaction fees for inscribing this stuff. That means miners have earned literally 1385BTC from this time period or over 50 million dollars altogether.

I can only assume gullible people paid a lot more in their attempt to get rich quick. And some indeed got rich, while the majority lost their money. The NFT market is very quiet nowadays, and this seems to be the next thing. Until Ordinals ~~blow up~~ fail too, after which someone will create another money maker for themselves.

NotATether

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Now, if you look here: https://ordiscan.com/, you can see two key statistics about the Ordinals rush:

1. 13.5 GB of our disk space is being wasted by our nodes storing these inscriptions inside transactions. That is 13.5GB used in just 9 months!

Extrapolating, that means that you will be wasting roughly 15GB of storage each year on worthless Ordinal tokens, as long as the demand is constant.

2. Ordinals users have paid over 1385BTC in transaction fees for inscribing this stuff. That means miners have earned literally 1385BTC from this time period or over 50 million dollars altogether.

So yes, it is keeping the miners afloat, but the disk space usage (and the associated spike in mempool fees) is quite annoying regardless.

apogio

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Even so, Bitcoin works as expected, avoiding attacks by increasing the fees.

I hate ordinals, I had to say it, but don't worry about the network.

If you have super important payments that cannot be delayed I suggest you move to Lightning.

If you can wait, then rest assured that mempool is going to clear and you will have your opportunity.

seek3r

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As its already mentioned:
The high load of the Bitcoin network is once again due to the ordinals. This was also recently discussed here:
What's happening with Bitcoin transaction fees?

Quote from: pooya87 on November 09, 2023, 01:51:34 AM

Quote from: dansus021 on November 08, 2023, 09:54:57 PM

I saw a strange transaction, he only sent around $0.2 and used a lot of fees,

It is the works of the Ordinals Attack.
What you see here has been the biggest problem with the latest attack, it has succeeded in providing an incentive for regular people to attack the network without knowing it. All out of greed.

They basically created a fake market where scammers create garbage and sell it to newbies who think they can make a profit. Because that garbage (the Ordinals) has a separate value in that market, the newbies don't mind paying a high fee on-chain to transfer that garbage around trading it for possible profits.

This makes things difficult for normal bitcoin users wanting to send bitcoin transactions since a spam attack with incentive to spam is going on.

Yep it is an absolute fake market. And this fake-market is big af.. all caused of FOMO once again.

To get a visual representation of the dimensions, I recommend the overview from @DdmrDdmr: Ordinals Data
The graphs give you an idea of how big these “scams” really are and how many blocks in the network are occupied by the ordinals.

pooya87

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Quote from: dansus021 on November 08, 2023, 09:54:57 PM

I saw a strange transaction, he only sent around $0.2 and used a lot of fees,

It is the works of the Ordinals Attack.
What you see here has been the biggest problem with the latest attack, it has succeeded in providing an incentive for regular people to attack the network without knowing it. All out of greed.

They basically created a fake market where scammers create garbage and sell it to newbies who think they can make a profit. Because that garbage (the Ordinals) has a separate value in that market, the newbies don't mind paying a high fee on-chain to transfer that garbage around trading it for possible profits.

This makes things difficult for normal bitcoin users wanting to send bitcoin transactions since a spam attack with incentive to spam is going on.

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Rollbit - the casino for you. Take $RLB token!

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 08, 2023, 11:23:58 PM

And I can tell you that miners are loving it.

They can get more coins from same resources for mining and they definitely love it.

How Ordinals are affecting Bitcoin mempools and transaction size
Inscriptions, Mempools and Miners

Mempool total size increases and becomes larger since February 2023 with appearances of Ordinals, BRC20 tokens.

This newest weekly report from Glassnode Insights proves your theory with real on-chain data.

Quote

Do Inscriptions Impact Miner Incomes?

Naturally, as blockspace demand increases, miner revenues will be positively affected. Whilst the fee spike in May was historically large, it has since cooled off, and both total fees and their relative share of miner income remain relatively low.

Both metrics have lifted above their typical 'bear market' levels; total fees have increased by 216% from ~12 BTC/day to 38 BTC/day, and the the proportion of the miner income from fees has increased from 1% to 4%. Both are meaningful increases, however are still small in an absolute and historical context.

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And I can tell you that miners are loving it.

And at the op miners get paid to guard your wealth. Right now miners are barely hanging in there above water.

This is why people push ordinals to

a) create miner relief
b) make pressure on btc to scale its fees better.
c) give miners and coin holders the option to say fuck you to btc and switch to scrypt.

stompix

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Quote from: dansus021 on November 08, 2023, 09:54:57 PM

1. Who is carrying out this transaction? There is a bit of a conspiracy, in my opinion,

No conspiracy, ordinal inscription!

Quote from: dansus021 on November 08, 2023, 09:54:57 PM

https://mempool.space/address/bc1plqdm0ndmnfzgzhfd8jcm6xrfmdur3j36cxnsj3rrfqdlz0mvczeqch89pz
https://mempool.space/address/bc1p0jk9wyzkuspp7pcpmalcexlpxgn2rua2m7w6hhr260rpk8ceyg9qewku7d
https://mempool.space/address/37q5GbpAX6ZJgcVNh9G71CCBTA7tfkk9LE

https://ordiscan.com/address/bc1plqdm0ndmnfzgzhfd8jcm6xrfmdur3j36cxnsj3rrfqdlz0mvczeqch89pz
https://ordiscan.com/address/bc1p0jk9wyzkuspp7pcpmalcexlpxgn2rua2m7w6hhr260rpk8ceyg9qewku7d
https://ordiscan.com/address/37q5GbpAX6ZJgcVNh9G71CCBTA7tfkk9LE

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

I have no idea what their goal is but people are suffering for it. Most of the time the users do not know how to adjust transaction fees, especially services who have automated payment approval, they use high amount of fees in their transactions which cause problem for others.

From the last three days I have a transaction which is stuck, it is painful.

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Hi guys I dont know how to give a proper title but here is the story

Initially, I wanted to send some of my bitcoins from my wallet to the exchange for my needs.

when I looked at the fees on mempool.space I saw a lot of unconfirmed transactions and crazy fee prices.

I saw a strange transaction, he only sent around $0.2 and used a lot of fees, at that moment I immediately knew that it was a transaction intended to spam the network

and moments like this usually occur when there is a spike in the price of bitcoin

my question is
1. Who is carrying out this transaction? There is a bit of a conspiracy, in my opinion, it is the pools who want to get a lot of fees, especially since this happens when there is a spike in the price of Bitcoin.
2. Do you think this transaction will stop? I want to send $50 and require a fee of $15 Cry

whattttt

Here is the image and address that I found

https://mempool.space/address/bc1plqdm0ndmnfzgzhfd8jcm6xrfmdur3j36cxnsj3rrfqdlz0mvczeqch89pz
https://mempool.space/address/bc1p0jk9wyzkuspp7pcpmalcexlpxgn2rua2m7w6hhr260rpk8ceyg9qewku7d
https://mempool.space/address/37q5GbpAX6ZJgcVNh9G71CCBTA7tfkk9LE

Topic: Question about Bitcoin network spammer (Read 542 times)