Topic: Question about customs and bitcoin (Read 5944 times)

If you wanted to try to report it (or whatever it was if you brought something with btc) I'd suggest contacting your foreign office or their tax office if language isn't a problem.

Otherwise I'd just make sure to get some paperwork proving its a legit sale and get on with it, then contact the foreign office or tax office if you were called up on it.

But I don't see it as a problem because there's no .. i'm shit with words.. no seat to ride it.. like, it's an awesome new ride and they have no idea how to sit on it and ride it yet so they just like go "ehhh" as you zoom on by with your btc car  

Hope you get the metaphors

edit: For example - atm, in Cyprus, you can only take a certain amount of cash out of the country. But, anyone in Cypus can have any amount of btc, go to any other country, and draw out all that btc and spend it on whatever they want, and there is no law in the world that orders them to say that they crossed a border with 'money'.

1. Because btc is not recognised as money (they they will catch up sooner or later)
2. But especially because the fact remains that the person in Cyprus did NOT in fact take any money over the border. It exists everywhere that the internet is at once, your btc does not exist in any 1 country, it exists in all that you can access your wallet from, and if your phone is a key then that is all countries. As such, they can not cross borders.

If the law changes in a country that you visit, so its law says that you have to declare your btc that you have worldwide, then ye, I can see you'd have to declare your btc.

Until such a law comes into place, then I see no cause or reason or even how you would achieve such a thing.

What if you compare to, say, an item in an online game? If you trade the virtual item for a real world item of some value, you have effectively imported that value without paying required fees or necessarily reporting. Has this been covered, or any legal precedent set?

My understanding is that its only cash that you should report.  Bitcoin is not cash so its not reported.

I do understand the analogy with credit cards. I could use my card to obtain $20k. And the fact that bitcoins are not technically "on" my phone.  But there is a difference. If I use my card and effectively import $20k in value, then the transaction will include any required fees and reporting. If I instead use my BTC to buy a $20k dollar car in Europe, then I should have reported it at the border, right?
The tricky part is that while you don't have bitcoins with you, you do have the ability to spend them.

The day they make it law and tell me I have to tell them how much is in my bank account/s if I have my credit/debit card/s on me when I cross borders is the day I'll tell them about my Bitcoins because I have my phone on me

(well, I lie, no I wouldn't, but you get my point).

Keep your bitcoins on a 2-of-2 multisig address. Keep one key on the smartphone and the other with a loved one in your home country.  As soon as you clear customs, notify your loved one to release the coins to another 1-signature address on your phone.

Should it ever come down to a legal defense, you can argue that the bitcoins are not 'imported' unless both your and your loved one cross the border together.

Tying bitcoins to another person and not simply another device is key.  Most judges are not tech-savvy and don't grasp concepts like cryptography and digital signatures.  However, they do grasp the concept of multiple persons having to sign an ownership transfer. 

Make it easy for the judge to understand this, and the prosecution will have a hard time.

do you also declare that your credit card contains +$10k?

Interesting question OP.

The answer lies in


If it came to court, the defense could happily rest upon that statement, and it would win. You were not carrying any wealth on you. If nations start to make carrying passwords in your head and mobile phones illegal to bring cross border.. well.. that would be VERY messy Really can't see that happening.

It would be like.. making it illegal to remember your bank PIN number and bringing your credit/debit card to another country.

Your mobile (and pw) is just an access key. Same as your credit/debit card (and PIN) is.

It's not our fault that btc is just far superior to use as an international currency

It can accomplish a great deal towards that end. Transactions can be anonymous, and are not thwarted by customs, tariffs, regulations, taxes, etc.

I don't want to be the test case you speak of rebuilder, so I only keep a tiny amount accessible via any device. I just wonder if this could trip someone up one day. Even though we all know that in practice it would be impossible to contain bitcoins geographically.

You're going to have to wait for a court case to see how the law gets interpreted on this. Pragmatically, customs would have a very hard time finding out what amount of BTC any given person holds, but the legislative and judicial branch don't always care about pragmatism.

drrussellshane, that sound reasonable. I would argue the same thing.
Now let me put on my devil horns and complicate things. What if I were carrying Casascius physical bitcoins? They are really just stores of private keys in a coin form. Is that different?

And I would keep my mouth shut like you recommended. I can only imagine how long it would take to explain bitcoin to an agent at the border. 

The bitcoins are stored in the blockchain.

Only the keys are in your wallet.

People cross borders all the time with their passwords to online banking sites in their heads. Do they declare their balance and username/password just because they could theoretically access their traditional banking site from foreign countries?

I wouldn't confuse officials with bitcoins... I'd keep my mouth shut.

I travel internationally a lot. I know that if I cross a border with $10k or more that I must declare it. But what about my bitcoins? I have a smartphone account that allows me to spend my coins, and some might say that I possess those coins on my phone. I know this  is technically incorrect. However, what would customs say?
The fact is I could march right out of the airport and buy a Land Rover with my coins. Does this mean that I brought a store of wealth into the country? If you think yes or no, please provide a legal basis for your thinking.