Question about Live Roulette | Bitcointalksearch.org

Falconer

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Quote from: KenR on January 09, 2016, 06:24:40 PM

Quote from: Falconer on January 09, 2016, 10:34:51 AM

Quote from: JeWay on January 09, 2016, 10:05:48 AM

As long as you can see and chat with the dealer, so yeah it's probably fair

That is what you called as fair but not provably fair. The words fair and provably fair is not the same at all and you need to read about this if you dont know what it is since most bitcoin gambling sites use this. Provably fair is different because it cant be applied to live games and it is involving cryptography.

Speaking generally,the terms "Provably Fair" are self explanatory.

Nothing is self explanatory around here and everything got their own meaning and explanation already so it is just matter of wether someone like to know the real meaning of it or not since most people around here dont even want to consider knowing what provably fair is before gambling

Quote from: Dannie on January 09, 2016, 06:32:20 PM

To be fair, JeWay is actually saying "probably fair" rather than "provably fair" in his post. So technically speaking, his comment is probably right. Wink

I didnt notice it, thought it was provably fair that I was reading Cheesy

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Quote from: Falconer on January 09, 2016, 10:34:51 AM

Quote from: JeWay on January 09, 2016, 10:05:48 AM

As long as you can see and chat with the dealer, so yeah it's probably fair

That is what you called as fair but not provably fair. The words fair and provably fair is not the same at all and you need to read about this if you dont know what it is since most bitcoin gambling sites use this. Provably fair is different because it cant be applied to live games and it is involving cryptography.

To be fair, JeWay is actually saying "probably fair" rather than "provably fair" in his post. So technically speaking, his comment is probably right. Wink

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Quote from: Falconer on January 09, 2016, 10:34:51 AM

Quote from: JeWay on January 09, 2016, 10:05:48 AM

As long as you can see and chat with the dealer, so yeah it's probably fair

That is what you called as fair but not provably fair. The words fair and provably fair is not the same at all and you need to read about this if you dont know what it is since most bitcoin gambling sites use this. Provably fair is different because it cant be applied to live games and it is involving cryptography.

Speaking generally,the terms "Provably Fair" are self explanatory.Something Fair is just fair without any logical or proven statistics to it .Whereas Provably implies its proved that it is fair and they can prove the instances of it at every case when requested .

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Quote from: JeWay on January 09, 2016, 10:05:48 AM

As long as you can see and chat with the dealer, so yeah it's probably fair

That is what you called as fair but not provably fair. The words fair and provably fair is not the same at all and you need to read about this if you dont know what it is since most bitcoin gambling sites use this. Provably fair is different because it cant be applied to live games and it is involving cryptography.

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As long as you can see and chat with the dealer, so yeah it's probably fair

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

Yes as the title says ,the live games are live indeed.Most of the times you will see an actual person welcoming you to the website and explaining the rules.As long as provably fair is concerned,there is no way to find it out.Even though the use actual machines to spin you can never be sure what's happening behind the video.Anyway if you're that insecure about the game you might as well just play at an actual Casino.

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 09, 2016, 07:52:30 AM

So in case of live casinos, there is not a predominantly defined way to generating Provably Fair rolls?I think as far as the game is live and played on an actual an along system even though it's live broadcasted, it's totally fair since they manually have to pull the handle to roll.

Every live game could not be using provably fair because the result is not determined yet. Just like gambler wanting to know exploit to cheator even use "strategy" to win at the casino, casino is also thinking on how to cheat without being known by gambler because they needs money and that is where provably fair comes in handy

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Quote from: Slark on January 07, 2016, 05:25:59 PM

There is no way to include Provably Fair system into Live Games. You need to have software based game for this system to work.
I would be impossible to apply Provably System based on server seeds and mathematical algorithms into analog game is where you spin Physical Roulette wheel or deal cards.

So in case of live casinos, there is not a predominantly defined way to generating Provably Fair rolls?I think as far as the game is live and played on an actual an along system even though it's live broadcasted, it's totally fair since they manually have to pull the handle to roll. From all the above comments I can assume in order to play on a live Roulette I should read the reviews of the respective website because every site has their own tricks.

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Quote from: Yakamoto on January 09, 2016, 01:21:45 AM

Quote from: sherbyspark on January 09, 2016, 01:11:36 AM

Quote from: Slark on January 07, 2016, 05:25:59 PM

There is no way to include Provably Fair system into Live Games. You need to have software based game for this system to work.
I would be impossible to apply Provably System based on server seeds and mathematical algorithms into analog game where you spin Physical Roulette wheel or deal cards.

Majority of the gambling happens physically and not software based. For roulette the way rigging works in a live environment is by tilting it or setting it up so the probability of the ball to land on a particular area is more. Even if you were playing on a tilted roulette wheel, there is no way to know which way it is and if it will ever affect your rolls, also with so many gamblers I doubt casinos would rig it to go to any direction as they are not against just one player betting in that area.

You can argue that it is possible to tell if a roulette ring is tilted based on the results, and assuming you are watching the spins as they happen and write down their location relative to the camera, but I would agree that there is little point to a casino rigging a wheel. There isn't much of a point in it, and I don't think that the live "actors" are going to be able to precisely get the ball to land on something.

That is correct. Also its not easy to tilt it again without people noticing. So just incase someone actually notices the tilt, then they can cause heavy damages to the casino by just betting in their own favor.

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Quote from: sherbyspark on January 09, 2016, 01:11:36 AM

Quote from: Slark on January 07, 2016, 05:25:59 PM

There is no way to include Provably Fair system into Live Games. You need to have software based game for this system to work.
I would be impossible to apply Provably System based on server seeds and mathematical algorithms into analog game where you spin Physical Roulette wheel or deal cards.

Majority of the gambling happens physically and not software based. For roulette the way rigging works in a live environment is by tilting it or setting it up so the probability of the ball to land on a particular area is more. Even if you were playing on a tilted roulette wheel, there is no way to know which way it is and if it will ever affect your rolls, also with so many gamblers I doubt casinos would rig it to go to any direction as they are not against just one player betting in that area.

You can argue that it is possible to tell if a roulette ring is tilted based on the results, and assuming you are watching the spins as they happen and write down their location relative to the camera, but I would agree that there is little point to a casino rigging a wheel. There isn't much of a point in it, and I don't think that the live "actors" are going to be able to precisely get the ball to land on something.

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Quote from: Slark on January 07, 2016, 05:25:59 PM

There is no way to include Provably Fair system into Live Games. You need to have software based game for this system to work.
I would be impossible to apply Provably System based on server seeds and mathematical algorithms into analog game where you spin Physical Roulette wheel or deal cards.

Majority of the gambling happens physically and not software based. For roulette the way rigging works in a live environment is by tilting it or setting it up so the probability of the ball to land on a particular area is more. Even if you were playing on a tilted roulette wheel, there is no way to know which way it is and if it will ever affect your rolls, also with so many gamblers I doubt casinos would rig it to go to any direction as they are not against just one player betting in that area.

MaritiJames3

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If it says it's live and you've read their policy about it then it should be live. I find that more trustworthy rather than playing against a script.
The person rolling the ball would be the same as a person sitting in an actual casino.

phreaky

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It really depends what the reviews are for that casino or they are trusted or not.
I have played in a real casino in a roulette and there is fun you can tell that you trust it.
Online I don't really trust, but if it is live I think you can trust it.

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Quote from: Phildo on January 07, 2016, 08:06:15 PM

I'm not saying there isn't a shady casino somewhere that would edit the video somehow to change the results of certain spins to avoid having to make big payouts or to guarantee big wins, but I doubt a casino would use some sort of rigged wheel.

They make enough money just from the EV of a regular wheel that it wouldn't be worth the risk of playing against someone who can figure out that the wheel is rigged and used that information for themselves.

If they are going to cheat, they are going to do it in a way where they can't get fucked, not in a way that leaves themselves open.

Most casino use a 3rd party live game provider to provide all of their live games instead of hosting one by themselves so this means neither any of this casino has the ability to rig their games since they dont control this dealer. This live games provider doesnt need to rig the game since they are paid to only host their live games

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I'm not saying there isn't a shady casino somewhere that would edit the video somehow to change the results of certain spins to avoid having to make big payouts or to guarantee big wins, but I doubt a casino would use some sort of rigged wheel.

They make enough money just from the EV of a regular wheel that it wouldn't be worth the risk of playing against someone who can figure out that the wheel is rigged and used that information for themselves.

If they are going to cheat, they are going to do it in a way where they can't get fucked, not in a way that leaves themselves open.

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When I used to play a little live roulette in fiat. I could ask the lovely lady dealer questions "thats right I pick the ladies" and she would answer and welcome new players to the table etc. When it is live you can see it is live and you have nothing to worry about assuming you are playing at a reputable site all will be good.

Saying that though on several occasions I did have some shady happenings, a spin for a few hundred dollars "winnings built up" I would never deposit more than $100 on the rare occasion I would play. Anyway the screen went blank and I never see where the ball landed I had to take their word for it.

Needless to say I never played there again. Just play where has good reviews and built trust you will be good.

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I like to think live roulette is not rigged I have had a good few wins on live roulette in the past also had some really poor times playing it but I think as with any form of online gambling it is all chance and luck and when you do start losing you do start to wonder is it? Then you get a win and you straighten your head out.

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There is no way to include Provably Fair system into Live Games. You need to have software based game for this system to work.
I would be impossible to apply Provably System based on server seeds and mathematical algorithms into analog game where you spin Physical Roulette wheel or deal cards.

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Quote from: pearnapple on January 07, 2016, 04:20:12 PM

Quote from: zeaderza on January 07, 2016, 03:12:32 PM

In live roulette dealers are reals,but the roullete is electronic.
You can watch on bets,and wait for more same colors.
After this,you need to bet on reverse color.

and it will most definitely not help you to win money, the chance of the same color rolling once again will still be 50 per cent what means that you might end up loosing once again, i wouldnt risk in the way you said

Live Roulette is not supposed to be electronics. Its the physical setup of the roulette game and a physical ball which is rolled. If you are playing electronics roulette on live , then its obviously not live.

One thing I have seen is them using the layout board where the chips are shown to be electronic. That doesn't interfere with the live part of the ball and the setup.

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Quote from: zeaderza on January 07, 2016, 03:12:32 PM

In live roulette dealers are reals,but the roullete is electronic.
You can watch on bets,and wait for more same colors.
After this,you need to bet on reverse color.

and it will most definitely not help you to win money, the chance of the same color rolling once again will still be 50 per cent what means that you might end up loosing once again, i wouldnt risk in the way you said

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 07, 2016, 02:29:30 PM

Quote from: sherbyspark on January 06, 2016, 08:13:38 PM

Yes its live. The way its probably fair is that sites like Cloudbet and all have this chat window. So each time someone joins, they welcome them by there username. So its obvious its live. And since its a continous shot, they can't be moving the ball to any other place.

Another theory is rigging the result through some magnet system, but in that you will have to again consider the fact that it is not just a single person playing. So they could do some change so as to alter the result making them in net profits, however even in that you would easily catch a slight change of motion of the ball, and with black and red it is impossible to be so precise.

I doubt even auto bots can welcome you on live chats like those web cam scam chatrooms.They even respond to few of your commands ,but that's something else.Anyhow I will be keen on finding this out.

Autobots can't be live. Live means a live person in front of the camera and they talk to you . Autobots is not live. Not sure what you mean there.

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Quote from: cazkooo on January 07, 2016, 02:21:45 AM

Quote from: adaseb on January 07, 2016, 02:06:18 AM

Well in that case I am pretty sure a virtual provabily fair random generator is safer then a live roulette. Since you are not there in person who knows if its rigged or not. Like someone mentioned before, there could easily be a magnet in the ball.

Provably fair RNG is the best and safer thing to use for gambling right now since it will be the only way for us gambler to know wether or not we have been cheated by the house. I've read it somewhere else that it is easy to land balls on roulette wheel as your wish if you trained to do it

Casinos have cheated on such games ever since they were created with magnets beneath the tables and shaped dice. Live casinos have an even easier job because you can't inspect the table.
Be aware of the risk and play safe Wink

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In live roulette dealers are reals,but the roullete is electronic.
You can watch on bets,and wait for more same colors.
After this,you need to bet on reverse color.

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Quote from: SyGambler on January 07, 2016, 12:05:09 AM

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

live roulette is for sure fair , you don't have to check the provably fair system cause everything is happening live
there are plenty of bitcoin sites offering it
once you enter the dealer will welcome you and you will play while other players are also playing

Yeah are these dealers like live humans or auto bets ? How does one assure ? As mentioned in my above posts there is no way to determine that and fairness of the game.

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Quote from: sherbyspark on January 06, 2016, 08:13:38 PM

Yes its live. The way its probably fair is that sites like Cloudbet and all have this chat window. So each time someone joins, they welcome them by there username. So its obvious its live. And since its a continous shot, they can't be moving the ball to any other place.

Another theory is rigging the result through some magnet system, but in that you will have to again consider the fact that it is not just a single person playing. So they could do some change so as to alter the result making them in net profits, however even in that you would easily catch a slight change of motion of the ball, and with black and red it is impossible to be so precise.

I doubt even auto bots can welcome you on live chats like those web cam scam chatrooms.They even respond to few of your commands ,but that's something else.Anyhow I will be keen on finding this out.

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Quote from: edmundduke on January 06, 2016, 04:37:53 PM

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

Well it really depends on the casino and the "Live" version provider. Usually there are a few providers and the games are as fair as they can get on a video roulette. I dont really think there is a real way of showing that it is provably fair, best you can ask is that the service they provide is legal and checked by an agency. Other than that, who knows what goes on there.

The point of my thread being,I literally wanted to know how can we make sure that it is provably fair.Thanks for the opinion though!

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Quote from: edmundduke on January 06, 2016, 04:37:53 PM

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

Well it really depends on the casino and the "Live" version provider. Usually there are a few providers and the games are as fair as they can get on a video roulette. I dont really think there is a real way of showing that it is provably fair, best you can ask is that the service they provide is legal and checked by an agency. Other than that, who knows what goes on there.

But even when we're not really sure about the site's provably fair, we kept losing yet we kept playing still.
I never really knew someone personally who won about 100btc on any gambling site here. Maybe we just have some hope. yes true everyone has the chance to win big but that's just it, all we have is just the chance. it stops there.

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Quote from: adaseb on January 07, 2016, 02:06:18 AM

Well in that case I am pretty sure a virtual provabily fair random generator is safer then a live roulette. Since you are not there in person who knows if its rigged or not. Like someone mentioned before, there could easily be a magnet in the ball.

Provably fair RNG is the best and safer thing to use for gambling right now since it will be the only way for us gambler to know wether or not we have been cheated by the house. I've read it somewhere else that it is easy to land balls on roulette wheel as your wish if you trained to do it

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Quote from: ajareselde on January 06, 2016, 08:41:20 PM

Well if it's not live streaming of actual people(staff) running the game, then it isn't live obviously. Roulette by itself in live version can not be
considered as provably fair, as it should be real non virtual game. If you are worried about possibility of staging results, i don't think there's a way to
clear your doubts, but you can choose a trusted casino to play on. From casino point, players have 0 chance of cheating, unless they have a deal with someone from staff that is..

Well in that case I am pretty sure a virtual provabily fair random generator is safer then a live roulette. Since you are not there in person who knows if its rigged or not. Like someone mentioned before, there could easily be a magnet in the ball.

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For those that dont understand about provably faor should atop commenting here since you are embarrasing yourself. There cant be any provably fair with live game, provably means the resukt is already there even before you click and play the game but the result is hidden in hash so this doesnt really applied to live game at all

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

live roulette is for sure fair , you don't have to check the provably fair system cause everything is happening live
there are plenty of bitcoin sites offering it
once you enter the dealer will welcome you and you will play while other players are also playing

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Quote from: Everybitbit on January 06, 2016, 11:33:19 PM

i dont think live roulette have provably fair system lol. its depend on live mode isnt it.?
but i think on live roulette theres a way for them to cheat player too.. i dont really like to play roulette its quite hard to win unless have alot of funds.

Anything can be rigged, with provable fair system it becomes a little difficult but with live version without any provable fairness its very easy.

I like playing roulette and have made profit from it in the past but it can be hard and requires good funds management.

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i dont think live roulette have provably fair system lol. its depend on live mode isnt it.?
but i think on live roulette theres a way for them to cheat player too.. i dont really like to play roulette its quite hard to win unless have alot of funds.

debuni

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Guys, live roulette is interesting thing

You could google roulette wheels manufactures and you will see some very interesting features offered: Like 100% prediction on which number will stop the ball. And it's official, legal feature.

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

Some people said live roulette is more rigged than not live roulette. i don't know is it right or not, because i never play live casino roulette. i prefer blackjack and poker than roulette

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Quote from: sherbyspark on January 06, 2016, 08:48:06 PM

Quote from: ajareselde on January 06, 2016, 08:41:20 PM

but you can choose a trusted casino to play on. From casino point, players have 0 chance of cheating, unless they have a deal with someone from staff that is..

That doesn't matter much . One thing to note is that all the live casinos that you see on sites, aren't hosted by casinos themselves. They are live rooms which sell their service to these casinos for a fixed price. You will probably even see the same rooms on multiple sites.
The other thing to think about fairness is that since those live services are sold on a plan basis, they would not cheat/rig as they gain nothing themselves.

I have to admit that i didn't know that those are separate services, i always assumed they are owned and runned by casinos themselves.
In regards to fairness of those services, i beg to differ, since they could easily "earn" multiple times their profit from runing a honest service in just a single staged hand.
You could compare the case with exchange sites as they also earn a lot just by operating, but still, over the years many have turned up to be not so interested in running a honest business.

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Quote from: ajareselde on January 06, 2016, 08:41:20 PM

but you can choose a trusted casino to play on. From casino point, players have 0 chance of cheating, unless they have a deal with someone from staff that is..

That doesn't matter much . One thing to note is that all the live casinos that you see on sites, aren't hosted by casinos themselves. They are live rooms which sell their service to these casinos for a fixed price. You will probably even see the same rooms on multiple sites.
The other thing to think about fairness is that since those live services are sold on a plan basis, they would not cheat/rig as they gain nothing themselves.

ajareselde

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Well if it's not live streaming of actual people(staff) running the game, then it isn't live obviously. Roulette by itself in live version can not be
considered as provably fair, as it should be real non virtual game. If you are worried about possibility of staging results, i don't think there's a way to
clear your doubts, but you can choose a trusted casino to play on. From casino point, players have 0 chance of cheating, unless they have a deal with someone from staff that is..

sherbyspark

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Quote from: adaseb on January 06, 2016, 08:20:06 PM

Quote from: sherbyspark on January 06, 2016, 08:13:38 PM

Yes its live. The way its probably fair is that sites like Cloudbet and all have this chat window. So each time someone joins, they welcome them by there username. So its obvious its live. And since its a continous shot, they can't be moving the ball to any other place.

Another theory is rigging the result through some magnet system, but in that you will have to again consider the fact that it is not just a single person playing. So they could do some change so as to alter the result making them in net profits, however even in that you would easily catch a slight change of motion of the ball, and with black and red it is impossible to be so precise.

Which casino have a real live roulette wheel? I assumed it was all based on random numbers using house edge. Didn't think it was an actual live wheel.

Cloudbet / mbit casino and I think the one I have in my sig link also has a live casino. Live casinos would be the ones where you have actual people on the camera and will have proof to show its actually live(calling out usernames who join is an example) .

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Quote from: sherbyspark on January 06, 2016, 08:13:38 PM

Yes its live. The way its probably fair is that sites like Cloudbet and all have this chat window. So each time someone joins, they welcome them by there username. So its obvious its live. And since its a continous shot, they can't be moving the ball to any other place.

Another theory is rigging the result through some magnet system, but in that you will have to again consider the fact that it is not just a single person playing. So they could do some change so as to alter the result making them in net profits, however even in that you would easily catch a slight change of motion of the ball, and with black and red it is impossible to be so precise.

Which casino have a real live roulette wheel? I assumed it was all based on random numbers using house edge. Didn't think it was an actual live wheel.

sherbyspark

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Yes its live. The way its probably fair is that sites like Cloudbet and all have this chat window. So each time someone joins, they welcome them by there username. So its obvious its live. And since its a continous shot, they can't be moving the ball to any other place.

Another theory is rigging the result through some magnet system, but in that you will have to again consider the fact that it is not just a single person playing. So they could do some change so as to alter the result making them in net profits, however even in that you would easily catch a slight change of motion of the ball, and with black and red it is impossible to be so precise.

marioantonini

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i have tested more live roulette to italian gambling site (because in italy you can play only to italian site) and have report 2-3 site more time later to the italian journal, because in live roulette, 2-3 site see only the girl and the roulette is more distant and don't see where he stopped the ball

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on January 06, 2016, 04:19:43 PM

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

Well it really depends on the casino and the "Live" version provider. Usually there are a few providers and the games are as fair as they can get on a video roulette. I dont really think there is a real way of showing that it is provably fair, best you can ask is that the service they provide is legal and checked by an agency. Other than that, who knows what goes on there.

Joel_Jantsen

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1317

Get your game girl

I wanted to know how a live roulette works and how they assure its provably fair.Like do they really have someone behind the screen who is being live broadcasting the game or its just a auto-bot again? I know the question is really silly but just couldn't seem to get this off my head.All answers appreciated .

Topic: Question about Live Roulette (Read 1727 times)