Question regarding Nano Ledger S wallet permanence

TruBitMil

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Quote from: TryNinja on February 10, 2019, 01:35:22 PM

Quote from: TruBitMil on February 10, 2019, 12:44:35 PM

Sigh. Technical question turning into a seed safekeeping lecture. Grin

When something so simple like writing down a string of 12-24 words can safeguard even a multimillionaire investment, we must advocate it everywhere, don’t you think? Wink

Fair enough, but I did state quite early in the thread that I am well aware of that and that my original question pertains to the technical side of things. So to keep reading the same "safeguard your keys manually/offline" in almost every reply was getting quite repetitive, for me at least, and surely anyone else who it needs to be advocated for. But my comment regarding this, was and still is, a bit tongue in the cheek. In any event, thank you for all the replies, it was helpful.

TryNinja

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Quote from: TruBitMil on February 10, 2019, 12:44:35 PM

Sigh. Technical question turning into a seed safekeeping lecture. Grin

Thankfully.

When something so simple like writing down a string of 12-24 words can safeguard even a multimillionaire investment, we must advocate it everywhere, don’t you think? Wink

TruBitMil

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Sigh. Technical question turning into a seed safekeeping lecture. Grin

bitmover

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Quote from: TryNinja on February 10, 2019, 05:36:56 AM

Even if they last that long, the most important thing you should be storing in the long term is your backup seed. Anything can happen to your device in 50 years, but if you have them, you have your coins.

Tryninja is correct here.

Even if the manufacturer says it will last 30 years, that doesn't matter as long as you have your seed.

In 30years any device you use now will not be compatible with the new ones anymore probably even USD won't exist anymore.

What matters about ledger is that it garantee the seed was safely generated and stored. And you can make your transactions now safely

TruBitMil

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 10, 2019, 07:48:42 AM

The memory may still be intact, though I certainly wouldn't expect it to be by then. I think flash storage needs spurts of electricity every now and then to maintain its stability. The above link cites 30 years but also adds that's with occasional use. There's no type of battery.

Thanks
Pretty much the kind of details I was curious in understanding.

TruBitMil

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Quote from: KingZee on February 10, 2019, 08:11:14 AM

30 - 50 years is a very long time to go on and expect any technology to still function, let alone a ledger wallet.

I'm sure that theoretically speaking there's a lifespan for the circuit board. Depending on the quality of the chip it is possible to reach the lifespan you want, but it's really a stretch.

Store your keys in a paper wallet and keep it in your home's safe, that's years more efficient than storing the device and finding out after 30 years that it won't boot.

The 50 years was just an arbitrary number for my example - one could even start pondering the same question in regards to 1,2,5,etc years.
Thank again for informing me of the importance of storing my 'keys', but my intention behind this question was not to imply that this is what my intentions were in any way - I was just curious as to what would actually happen.

TruBitMil

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Quote from: TryNinja on February 10, 2019, 06:39:35 AM

Quote

The smartcard and USB-connector of the Nano have an augmented CC (Common Criteria version 3.1, part 1) certification level of Evaluation Assurance Level (EAL) 5+. This means an estimated lifespan of 30 years or 500.000 on-memry write cycles.

The Ledger Blue will be rated with CC EAL6+.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7202fi/comment/dnesz4a

Thanks

KingZee

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Check your coin privilege

30 - 50 years is a very long time to go on and expect any technology to still function, let alone a ledger wallet.

I'm sure that theoretically speaking there's a lifespan for the circuit board. Depending on the quality of the chip it is possible to reach the lifespan you want, but it's really a stretch.

Store your keys in a paper wallet and keep it in your home's safe, that's years more efficient than storing the device and finding out after 30 years that it won't boot.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

The memory may still be intact, though I certainly wouldn't expect it to be by then. I think flash storage needs spurts of electricity every now and then to maintain its stability. The above link cites 30 years but also adds that's with occasional use. There's no type of battery.

Your bigger problem will be software and firmware. It's doubtful Ledger will be an ongoing concern and whatever code they came out with will either be long since compromised or unusable on modern machinery and that's before we consider whether there'll be any type of USB connection by that point in time.

I regard the Ledger as disposable element. The seed is the permanent one.

TryNinja

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Quote

The smartcard and USB-connector of the Nano have an augmented CC (Common Criteria version 3.1, part 1) certification level of Evaluation Assurance Level (EAL) 5+. This means an estimated lifespan of 30 years or 500.000 on-memry write cycles.

The Ledger Blue will be rated with CC EAL6+.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7202fi/comment/dnesz4a

TruBitMil

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Quote from: TryNinja on February 10, 2019, 05:36:56 AM

Even if they last that long, the most important thing you should be storing in the long term is your backup seed. Anything can happen to your device in 50 years, but if you have them, you have your coins.

Am well aware of that thanks.
Would still like to know the answer to my question.

TryNinja

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Even if they last that long, the most important thing you should be storing in the long term is your backup seed. Anything can happen to your device in 50 years, but if you have them, you have your coins.

TruBitMil

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Hi
I have a Ledger Nano S and was curious as to how the information is retained on the device.
Let's say I have restored my device with my passphrase and unplug it from USB power and place it in my drawer. If in 50 years from now if I plug it back in, will it still have everything "remembered" so I don't need to restore the device again.
Was just thinking about this and not sure if it contained like a little battery of if a chip is somehow programmed (physically)?

Topic: Question regarding Nano Ledger S wallet permanence (Read 200 times)