Thanks for the input guys... You are right, i should keep the collateral. I just felt bad for the guy, so i wanted to help him out.
I'll probably offer him the value of the coin he loaned back then, and leave it at that.
I'm closing the thread now, i basically got the answer i was looking for. If anybody has anything else meaningful to add: just pm me and i'll unlock the thread again!
Topic: [Question] would returning 50% of the collateral be fair in case of a default? (Read 135 times)
January 23, 2024, 02:26:56 AM
January 22, 2024, 08:38:15 PM
I'm looking for some ethical advice about a loan i gave 3,5 years ago.
It was a free (as in 0% intrest) loan with collateral, under the conditions the loan HAD to be repayed within the year and the person taking the loan had to cover all fees. The collateral was sent to me, and i gave him the loan.
The person who took the loan went off the grid for 3,5 years untill about 30 minutes ago. He just sent me a message indicating he was "late" and if i would be willing to give him his collateral back if he repayed the loan (it was a non-btc loan). The collateral was in XMR (2 XMR). At the time he took the loan, 2 XMR was worth 120€, now it's worth 282€. I'm proposing to him to give him 60€ worth of BTC if he gives the principal back. I personally think that's fair since he was 2,5 years late repaying, and i had to sell of the collateral, and now i have to send BTC whilst the mempool is full and the tx fees are high.
I want to send the person who took the loan following reply, but i'm looking for some ethical input: is my offer fair or am i being overly harsh?
I do not think you should send the collateral back. Because 2.5 years passed and in this time anything can happen. The user has not repaid I think that the price was low and as now the price is up the user is trying to repay the loan. If the price still was in lower than the loan amount then the user never tried to repay. So it is nothing but a collateral back.It was a free (as in 0% intrest) loan with collateral, under the conditions the loan HAD to be repayed within the year and the person taking the loan had to cover all fees. The collateral was sent to me, and i gave him the loan.
The person who took the loan went off the grid for 3,5 years untill about 30 minutes ago. He just sent me a message indicating he was "late" and if i would be willing to give him his collateral back if he repayed the loan (it was a non-btc loan). The collateral was in XMR (2 XMR). At the time he took the loan, 2 XMR was worth 120€, now it's worth 282€. I'm proposing to him to give him 60€ worth of BTC if he gives the principal back. I personally think that's fair since he was 2,5 years late repaying, and i had to sell of the collateral, and now i have to send BTC whilst the mempool is full and the tx fees are high.
I want to send the person who took the loan following reply, but i'm looking for some ethical input: is my offer fair or am i being overly harsh?
I had something like this:
Someone took a loan from me by giving a collateral that had no value (0 value) but on Etharscan it showed a good value. loan repayment time passed and didn't repay anything. But after a few days/weeks, the developer gave the same amount of token which was in the exchangers and it had multiple times value than my loan amount so I sold that. ANd the defaulter tried to take the collateral back and I have not given that. If I search I may find out the case regarding that.
As the time period of loan repayment passed and you have sold no way to refund from your pocket.
Edit: My case was: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50530402
January 22, 2024, 06:48:16 PM
I agree with Dave. Once he defaulted on the loan, you owe him nothing.
Whatever stipulations you give him now is more than fair.
Whatever stipulations you give him now is more than fair.
January 22, 2024, 05:08:01 PM
I don't know your relationship with the loan defaulter, but in this case, you have every reason to keep the collateral to yourself. In fact, he is even shameful to demand you for the collateral at this point in time after disappearing for a couple of years.
Giving him back anything right now would mean that the deadline both of you had agreed on was of no use. Let's say it was on the flip side and the value of the XMR had dropped by 50% from that time, I don't think he would be back asking for the collateral.
Giving him back anything right now would mean that the deadline both of you had agreed on was of no use. Let's say it was on the flip side and the value of the XMR had dropped by 50% from that time, I don't think he would be back asking for the collateral.
January 22, 2024, 04:59:01 PM
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Base on your description, he broke the contract by not returning the principal on time, you had every right to sell the collateral to compensate yourself for the defaulted loan.
At this point I would consider the loan closed, it's a done deal. You don't owe him anything, and he doesn't owe you anything.
Completely agree, especially because he interrupted any kind of communication which in my eyes is even more serious than having defaulted the loan.
Case closed imo.
January 22, 2024, 04:48:01 PM
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Base on your description, he broke the contract by not returning the principal on time, you had every right to sell the collateral to compensate yourself for the defaulted loan.
At this point I would consider the loan closed, it's a done deal. You don't owe him anything, and he doesn't owe you anything.
January 22, 2024, 03:13:04 PM
I guess he sent you a collateral equivalent to the amount borrowed?
If so, insofar as you sold the XMRs, you should be fine, you got back your 120 usd, as he missed the repayment on time.
Why don't you just ignore his request? He got his 120 usd from the loan, and you got it from the sale of XMR ; otherwise what's the point of the collateral?
If so, insofar as you sold the XMRs, you should be fine, you got back your 120 usd, as he missed the repayment on time.
Why don't you just ignore his request? He got his 120 usd from the loan, and you got it from the sale of XMR ; otherwise what's the point of the collateral?
January 22, 2024, 01:48:54 PM
I'm with Poker Player unless there is some other reason the other person defaulted and disappeared for years. The answer is no you get nothing. If after 2 years for whatever reason you quit the forum and there was no way to find you they would not get their money back either.
In MOST jurisdictions if you take out a loan on a car and don't pay they take your car and sell it. If there are any funds left over they lender has to put forward some reasonable effort to find that person and give them back any overages. If after reasonable time and effort they can't. They get to keep the money.
This long with not contact. It's yours.
But, if there was some other real reason for them to go dark for that long (jail?) you might feel differently. But not even an 'I'm not dead' PM?
-Dave
In MOST jurisdictions if you take out a loan on a car and don't pay they take your car and sell it. If there are any funds left over they lender has to put forward some reasonable effort to find that person and give them back any overages. If after reasonable time and effort they can't. They get to keep the money.
This long with not contact. It's yours.
But, if there was some other real reason for them to go dark for that long (jail?) you might feel differently. But not even an 'I'm not dead' PM?
-Dave
January 22, 2024, 12:10:09 PM
I want to send the person who took the loan following reply, but i'm looking for some ethical input: is my offer fair or am i being overly harsh?
Sorry to put it this way, but this is just another of the many examples I see on the forum where I see little testosterone. I guess it goes with the world in general, where testosterone levels decline over time.
It's clear to me, he defaulted on a loan, and you kept the collateral. Now you can do whatever you want, like ignore him if you want.
I guess you red tagged him, is that right?
January 22, 2024, 10:43:09 AM
I'm looking for some ethical advice about a loan i gave 3,5 years ago.
It was a free (as in 0% intrest) loan with collateral, under the conditions the loan HAD to be repayed within the year and the person taking the loan had to cover all fees. The collateral was sent to me, and i gave him the loan.
The person who took the loan went off the grid for 3,5 years untill about 30 minutes ago. He just sent me a message indicating he was "late" and if i would be willing to give him his collateral back if he repayed the loan (it was a non-btc loan). The collateral was in XMR (2 XMR). At the time he took the loan, 2 XMR was worth 120€, now it's worth 282€. I'm proposing to him to give him 60€ worth of BTC if he gives the principal back. I personally think that's fair since he was 2,5 years late repaying, and i had to sell of the collateral, and now i have to send BTC whilst the mempool is full and the tx fees are high.
I want to send the person who took the loan following reply, but i'm looking for some ethical input: is my offer fair or am i being overly harsh?
It was a free (as in 0% intrest) loan with collateral, under the conditions the loan HAD to be repayed within the year and the person taking the loan had to cover all fees. The collateral was sent to me, and i gave him the loan.
The person who took the loan went off the grid for 3,5 years untill about 30 minutes ago. He just sent me a message indicating he was "late" and if i would be willing to give him his collateral back if he repayed the loan (it was a non-btc loan). The collateral was in XMR (2 XMR). At the time he took the loan, 2 XMR was worth 120€, now it's worth 282€. I'm proposing to him to give him 60€ worth of BTC if he gives the principal back. I personally think that's fair since he was 2,5 years late repaying, and i had to sell of the collateral, and now i have to send BTC whilst the mempool is full and the tx fees are high.
I want to send the person who took the loan following reply, but i'm looking for some ethical input: is my offer fair or am i being overly harsh?
Quote
Hi ,
I had to look into my archives to find out what this loan terms were exactly. If my records were correct, it was a loan of from july 10th 2020 that had to be repayed before july 10th 2021. I considered this loan defaulted on july the 11th 2021.
I tend to keep collateral a couple of months after the latest repayment date just in case, but this loan was given about 3,5 years ago and it had to be repayed about 2,5 years ago. At that time, i had completely different wallets than i have right now. I don't know what happened to the XMR, but since i only hold BTC it was either sold off when i switched wallets or it's on a wallet i no longer have access to (it probably was sold off tough).
I'm willing to work with you and see if we can find some sort of agreement to give you a partial refund of your collateral after you've returned the, but there's no way i'll be able to return 2 XMR, especially since it has more than doubled in value since the loan was given. If I'd have to buy 2 XMR now, it would probably cost me more than i got from selling off the collateral back in 2021, so i would effectively making a loss from giving out a free loan.
I've been looking at coinmarketcap, and it looks the collateral was worth about 120€ when you sent it to me (asking price, not including any fees). I've tought about it, and i think it would be fair if i gave you 50% of the value of the collateral after you sent the back to me. I think 50% is reasonable since you're 2,5 year late with the repayment, and i was in my right to sell the collateral (and by selling it, i had to pay deposit, exchange and withdrawal fees, and it also cost me some time to execute all transactions). I'll also have to cover transaction fees of sending back the collateral to you.
So, that's my offer: i'm willing to send you 60€ worth of BTC after you've returned the, either directly in BTC or i can run it trough exch.cx to convert it to Monero, dash, litecoin, eth,... (but in this case, i'll only cover the fees up untill the exchange, the exchange and withdrawal fees are for you). In the end, it would have cost you about 60€ to have at your disposal for allmost 3,5 years.
Kind regards,
M
I had to look into my archives to find out what this loan terms were exactly. If my records were correct, it was a loan of
I tend to keep collateral a couple of months after the latest repayment date just in case, but this loan was given about 3,5 years ago and it had to be repayed about 2,5 years ago. At that time, i had completely different wallets than i have right now. I don't know what happened to the XMR, but since i only hold BTC it was either sold off when i switched wallets or it's on a wallet i no longer have access to (it probably was sold off tough).
I'm willing to work with you and see if we can find some sort of agreement to give you a partial refund of your collateral after you've returned the
I've been looking at coinmarketcap, and it looks the collateral was worth about 120€ when you sent it to me (asking price, not including any fees). I've tought about it, and i think it would be fair if i gave you 50% of the value of the collateral after you sent the
So, that's my offer: i'm willing to send you 60€ worth of BTC after you've returned the
Kind regards,
M
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