Topic: Question... Zero value?? (Read 622 times)
Bancor appears to let you do that from what I can tell. It claims you can create a "reward point" system which, even though it technically has value (can be traded for something worth value), itself has no set value. I haven't seem them post much info on it yet though?
There is already a bartercoin and I own it, its not dead or dieing its put on hold on the payout button, so please dont use its name for your ideas please
i'm not sure, but i think coins with smart contracts can do that.
you insert value, date, sender and receiver and once everything is completed the coins will be paid.
you insert value, date, sender and receiver and once everything is completed the coins will be paid.
I thought that the OP was asking about a "zero cost" thing. Of course you can use *an existing* block chain to write about anything on it. But in order for that chain to live, it has to have valuable tokens on it (otherwise, nobody's going to mine it, nothing at stake). The thing is that for the application at hand, the OP doesn't *need* a block chain, as there's nothing to be transferred: there are just promises to be issued by whoever wants to issue promises ; and promises to be redeemed. Without any transaction, the heavy, full block chain mechanism is simply not *necessary*. Verifiable signatures are sufficient.
Thank you for your input it is appreciated.
Indeed you are probably correct that this could be done without the need of a blockchain, my thinking behind the want to incorporate a blockchain into the idea is that the "bartercoin" for lack of a better name, would be immutable... Joe could not fake a transaction for a joke and claim I owed him unlimited holidays to the caribbean instead of the 2 glasses of wine I actually owe him/her, as if this happened too often the system would become untrustworthy and would cease to be of use.
My original idea was to create a morally fortified community based barter system (by community I mean Village, local business groups, small towns etc) to take away the need for any "currency" transaction for some of the things that are needed from day to day, where trust could be built over time based on the successful transaction carried out by your private key.
Once again, thank you all for you input.
Ta
I thought that the OP was asking about a "zero cost" thing. Of course you can use *an existing* block chain to write about anything on it. But in order for that chain to live, it has to have valuable tokens on it (otherwise, nobody's going to mine it, nothing at stake). The thing is that for the application at hand, the OP doesn't *need* a block chain, as there's nothing to be transferred: there are just promises to be issued by whoever wants to issue promises ; and promises to be redeemed. Without any transaction, the heavy, full block chain mechanism is simply not *necessary*. Verifiable signatures are sufficient.
Arbitrary data can be included in the blockchain by including it in a script that ignores it.
This is used for Coloured Coins, a system that allows, for example, a theatre or sporting event to issue a batch of tickets, release them onto the blockchain, and let them circulate in the free market (a transaction that simultaneously transfers the ticket and bitcoin allows trust-less anonymous sales), the tickets can then be checked upon entry into the venue, and are worthless afterwards. I think this is what OP is asking about.
This type of system is known as a smart contract, Ethereum ishiped claimed to be "an innovative smart contract platform", although many of them can also work with bitcoin.
This is used for Coloured Coins, a system that allows, for example, a theatre or sporting event to issue a batch of tickets, release them onto the blockchain, and let them circulate in the free market (a transaction that simultaneously transfers the ticket and bitcoin allows trust-less anonymous sales), the tickets can then be checked upon entry into the venue, and are worthless afterwards. I think this is what OP is asking about.
This type of system is known as a smart contract, Ethereum is
Of course, that's not difficult to do. Only, like "private block chains", there's not much "block chain" about that, because the two things that set a block chain apart from other public, shared files are that on a block chain, there's an incentive for people to want to ERASE data, and there's a needed ORDER IN TIME. Fixing the order in time, and making things indelible are the two aspects of a block chain that were innovating, and that need "difficulty" (so that it becomes infeasible to "redo" the chain). This was needed for a crypto currency, where one needs to prove two things:
- valid creation of coins (scarce coins)
- valid transactions of coins with no double spending (only the FIRST transaction in time counts).
But with random promises, there's no such thing. There is no order in time. The promise is there, or not. A promise is not transferable. It is only redeemable.
What you need here, are just signatures and torrent or something that can share files. People need to have their secret key, and their public key, like with GPG. When you promise something to someone, you write this up in a text, with date, description of what you promise, and to whom (with his public key identifier), and you SIGN it with your secret key.
That file is now public (on a bittorrent server if you want). Every body can:
- see exactly what you promised
- see that you promised it
- see when you promised it.
- see to whom you made that promise.
Nobody can fake a promise in your name, because they cannot sign it.
The person to whom you promise something can make a copy of that file (if you didn't send it directly already). So even if YOU want to delete that file, that person can still put that file up again on a server. You cannot deny any more that you made that promise, because everyone can put that file out. There's no needed "order in time" of the file, because the date is written in the text and signed.
When the person wants to redeem your promise, you make him write a file where he/she writes that your promise has been redeemed, and signs it with his/her private key that corresponds to the public key in your message indicating him/her. If YOU have that file now, you can put it on a server, and show to the world that said promise was redeemed.
Example:
"Today, 20. Dec 2016, I (dinofelis) promise to Joe (< public key of Joe here >) that I owe him a meal at KFC".
(signed with my private key).
This file is put on a server and sent to Joe.
Everybody sees my promise. The day I want to erase it, Joe has a copy (just as well as about any body else) and can put it back.
When finally, Joe redeems his meal, I make him write a message:
< my former message, including signature >
"I, Joe, declare that today, 25. Dec 2016, redeemed my meal from dinofelis"
( signed with Joe's private key ).
and put that on a server.
Everybody sees now that Joe redeemed his meal. If ever Joe wants to claim again that I owe him a meal, I can show this message. If Joe wants to delete it from a server, I can put it back.
- valid creation of coins (scarce coins)
- valid transactions of coins with no double spending (only the FIRST transaction in time counts).
But with random promises, there's no such thing. There is no order in time. The promise is there, or not. A promise is not transferable. It is only redeemable.
What you need here, are just signatures and torrent or something that can share files. People need to have their secret key, and their public key, like with GPG. When you promise something to someone, you write this up in a text, with date, description of what you promise, and to whom (with his public key identifier), and you SIGN it with your secret key.
That file is now public (on a bittorrent server if you want). Every body can:
- see exactly what you promised
- see that you promised it
- see when you promised it.
- see to whom you made that promise.
Nobody can fake a promise in your name, because they cannot sign it.
The person to whom you promise something can make a copy of that file (if you didn't send it directly already). So even if YOU want to delete that file, that person can still put that file up again on a server. You cannot deny any more that you made that promise, because everyone can put that file out. There's no needed "order in time" of the file, because the date is written in the text and signed.
When the person wants to redeem your promise, you make him write a file where he/she writes that your promise has been redeemed, and signs it with his/her private key that corresponds to the public key in your message indicating him/her. If YOU have that file now, you can put it on a server, and show to the world that said promise was redeemed.
Example:
"Today, 20. Dec 2016, I (dinofelis) promise to Joe (< public key of Joe here >) that I owe him a meal at KFC".
(signed with my private key).
This file is put on a server and sent to Joe.
Everybody sees my promise. The day I want to erase it, Joe has a copy (just as well as about any body else) and can put it back.
When finally, Joe redeems his meal, I make him write a message:
< my former message, including signature >
"I, Joe, declare that today, 25. Dec 2016, redeemed my meal from dinofelis"
( signed with Joe's private key ).
and put that on a server.
Everybody sees now that Joe redeemed his meal. If ever Joe wants to claim again that I owe him a meal, I can show this message. If Joe wants to delete it from a server, I can put it back.
I have a brief question for you intelligent Ladies and Gentlemen...
Would it be possible to create a Blockchain based Zero value token that could have the token's "value" added by the "miner"?
Example: Tom's forgetful friend occasionally needs a reminder that he owes Tom ... Insert value here. (Beer x 3, Meal x 1, 3hrs Labour, £10 etc)
Example: You feel you haven't been as good a partner as you should have been to your spouse, so you decide to issue her/him a "token" redeemable for ... Insert value here. (Holiday, divorce, servant etc.)
All tokens issued their values and states (not redeemed / redeemed... Tricky??) would be visible to all users of the network.
Or is that just another useless bainfart?
Ta
Would it be possible to create a Blockchain based Zero value token that could have the token's "value" added by the "miner"?
Example: Tom's forgetful friend occasionally needs a reminder that he owes Tom ... Insert value here. (Beer x 3, Meal x 1, 3hrs Labour, £10 etc)
Example: You feel you haven't been as good a partner as you should have been to your spouse, so you decide to issue her/him a "token" redeemable for ... Insert value here. (Holiday, divorce, servant etc.)
All tokens issued their values and states (not redeemed / redeemed... Tricky??) would be visible to all users of the network.
Or is that just another useless bainfart?
Ta
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