Questions about electrum Seed | Bitcointalksearch.org

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 14, 2016, 05:49:30 AM

Quote from: shorena on April 13, 2016, 02:34:07 PM

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 13, 2016, 10:43:41 AM

Can any one guide me how to encrypt my electrum seed and store it safely on my hard drive?
I already wrote it down but as safely also want to store it securly on my online PC so please someone guide me if there's a way to encrypt it?

-> https://veracrypt.codeplex.com/

create a container, use a strong password, safe a txt file with the seed inside the container.

Ok i understand electrum seed is 128 bit that is 2^128 seeds can be there.Now this is such a big number and brute force is impossible to find working seed
Now i am curious to know how electrum generates seed randomly? Electrum doesn't record mouse movements to generate seed like bitaddress do to generate private key,so it's very much possible if by mistake it generates the same seed twice for 2 different users?Right?

Sure if your OS is broken electrum cant protect you.

-> https://bitcoinspakistan.com/blog/electrum-seed-explained/

You can use dice or something else if you want.

-> https://bitcoinspakistan.com/blog/make-your-own-electrum-seed/

Ctn

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 259

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

So Electrum seed is 128 bit
12 or 13 words
What are the chances that the same seed is not generated by someone else by mistake?
Electrum seed just consist of English words . Don't you think it would be more secure to just use random letters?because either way we have to write it down.So what's the point of using English words?
Don't you think private keys genetation is more secure then seed itself? Even though seed contains other private keys.
So tell me the chances that someone else does not generate the same seed and end up stealing bitcoins?

there is even a possibilities but is really too small!

Answerme2

member

Activity: 108

Merit: 10

Quote from: shorena on April 13, 2016, 02:34:07 PM

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 13, 2016, 10:43:41 AM

Can any one guide me how to encrypt my electrum seed and store it safely on my hard drive?
I already wrote it down but as safely also want to store it securly on my online PC so please someone guide me if there's a way to encrypt it?

-> https://veracrypt.codeplex.com/

create a container, use a strong password, safe a txt file with the seed inside the container.

Ok i understand electrum seed is 128 bit that is 2^128 seeds can be there.Now this is such a big number and brute force is impossible to find working seed
Now i am curious to know how electrum generates seed randomly? Electrum doesn't record mouse movements to generate seed like bitaddress do to generate private key,so it's very much possible if by mistake it generates the same seed twice for 2 different users?Right?

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 13, 2016, 10:43:41 AM

Can any one guide me how to encrypt my electrum seed and store it safely on my hard drive?
I already wrote it down but as safely also want to store it securly on my online PC so please someone guide me if there's a way to encrypt it?

-> https://veracrypt.codeplex.com/

create a container, use a strong password, safe a txt file with the seed inside the container.

Answerme2

member

Activity: 108

Merit: 10

Can any one guide me how to encrypt my electrum seed and store it safely on my hard drive?
I already wrote it down but as safely also want to store it securly on my online PC so please someone guide me if there's a way to encrypt it?

merelcoin

hero member

Activity: 675

Merit: 504

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 13, 2016, 06:03:18 AM

Quote from: shorena on April 13, 2016, 05:05:53 AM

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

So Electrum seed is 128 bit
12 or 13 words
What are the chances that the same seed is not generated by someone else by mistake?

Its a 128 bit seed, so the chance is 1 in 2¹²⁸ or 1 in 3.402823669*10³⁸.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

Electrum seed just consist of English words . Don't you think it would be more secure to just use random letters?because either way we have to write it down.So what's the point of using English words?

The english words are just a different representation of the same thing. The words are the seed, but so is a 128 bit binary number. Its easier for humans to remember words than binary number. Mainly because we are used to use words while we only seldomly use binary numbers.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

Don't you think private keys genetation is more secure then seed itself? Even though seed contains other private keys.
So tell me the chances that someone else does not generate the same seed and end up stealing bitcoins?

A private key is a 256 bit number, so one might think its significantly more secure than a seed. However when creating an address the process involves a 160 bit RIPEMD-160 hash. Thus it is assumed that there are 2⁹⁶ (because 2²⁵⁶/2¹⁶⁰ = 2⁹⁶) private keys that can spend coins on a given address. Another aspect of private key security is that the underlying algorithm (ECDSA) only offers 128-bit security for a 256-bit. There are no shortcuts AFAIK to the seed.

Using a seed is in the same ballpark of security than just randomly generating keys. A seed however has the advantage that private keys derived from it are deterministic and thus only a one time backup is needed.

So in short if i generate electrum wallet and store my savings in bitcoin in that wallet and store it offline then the same seed will not be generated by anyone else atleast not in my lifetime.Right?

right... chances are a lot greater that your bank will fail, or your country will stop to exist than somebody generating the same private key.

However, this is only true if you generate your private keys on offline machines. A lot of coins get stolen because of compromised online machines and online wallets.

Answerme2

member

Activity: 108

Merit: 10

Quote from: shorena on April 13, 2016, 05:05:53 AM

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

So Electrum seed is 128 bit
12 or 13 words
What are the chances that the same seed is not generated by someone else by mistake?

Its a 128 bit seed, so the chance is 1 in 2¹²⁸ or 1 in 3.402823669*10³⁸.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

Electrum seed just consist of English words . Don't you think it would be more secure to just use random letters?because either way we have to write it down.So what's the point of using English words?

The english words are just a different representation of the same thing. The words are the seed, but so is a 128 bit binary number. Its easier for humans to remember words than binary number. Mainly because we are used to use words while we only seldomly use binary numbers.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

Don't you think private keys genetation is more secure then seed itself? Even though seed contains other private keys.
So tell me the chances that someone else does not generate the same seed and end up stealing bitcoins?

A private key is a 256 bit number, so one might think its significantly more secure than a seed. However when creating an address the process involves a 160 bit RIPEMD-160 hash. Thus it is assumed that there are 2⁹⁶ (because 2²⁵⁶/2¹⁶⁰ = 2⁹⁶) private keys that can spend coins on a given address. Another aspect of private key security is that the underlying algorithm (ECDSA) only offers 128-bit security for a 256-bit. There are no shortcuts AFAIK to the seed.

Using a seed is in the same ballpark of security than just randomly generating keys. A seed however has the advantage that private keys derived from it are deterministic and thus only a one time backup is needed.

So in short if i generate electrum wallet and store my savings in bitcoin in that wallet and store it offline then the same seed will not be generated by anyone else atleast not in my lifetime.Right?

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

So Electrum seed is 128 bit
12 or 13 words
What are the chances that the same seed is not generated by someone else by mistake?

Its a 128 bit seed, so the chance is 1 in 2¹²⁸ or 1 in 3.402823669*10³⁸.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

Electrum seed just consist of English words . Don't you think it would be more secure to just use random letters?because either way we have to write it down.So what's the point of using English words?

The english words are just a different representation of the same thing. The words are the seed, but so is a 128 bit binary number. Its easier for humans to remember words than binary number. Mainly because we are used to use words while we only seldomly use binary numbers.

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

Don't you think private keys genetation is more secure then seed itself? Even though seed contains other private keys.
So tell me the chances that someone else does not generate the same seed and end up stealing bitcoins?

A private key is a 256 bit number, so one might think its significantly more secure than a seed. However when creating an address the process involves a 160 bit RIPEMD-160 hash. Thus it is assumed that there are 2⁹⁶ (because 2²⁵⁶/2¹⁶⁰ = 2⁹⁶) private keys that can spend coins on a given address. Another aspect of private key security is that the underlying algorithm (ECDSA) only offers 128-bit security for a 256-bit. There are no shortcuts AFAIK to the seed.

Using a seed is in the same ballpark of security than just randomly generating keys. A seed however has the advantage that private keys derived from it are deterministic and thus only a one time backup is needed.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4522

Merit: 3426

Quote from: Answerme2 on April 12, 2016, 11:29:34 PM

So Electrum seed is 128 bit
12 or 13 words
What are the chances that the same seed is not generated by someone else by mistake?
Electrum seed just consist of English words . Don't you think it would be more secure to just use random letters?because either way we have to write it down.So what's the point of using English words?
Don't you think private keys genetation is more secure then seed itself? Even though seed contains other private keys.
So tell me the chances that someone else does not generate the same seed and end up stealing bitcoins?

The probability of two people getting the same seed is incredibly small.

Words have some advantages: you need fewer words than letters, and words have built in redundancy. They are also easier to remember if you are brave/crazy enough to memorize your seed.

Answerme2

member

Activity: 108

Merit: 10

So Electrum seed is 128 bit
12 or 13 words
What are the chances that the same seed is not generated by someone else by mistake?
Electrum seed just consist of English words . Don't you think it would be more secure to just use random letters?because either way we have to write it down.So what's the point of using English words?
Don't you think private keys genetation is more secure then seed itself? Even though seed contains other private keys.
So tell me the chances that someone else does not generate the same seed and end up stealing bitcoins?

Topic: Questions about electrum Seed (Read 782 times)