Q:Why isn't the Shocking Ethereum Fees discussed more in Media? A:...

Abiky

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Quote from: midasjohn on March 13, 2023, 04:19:44 AM

I agree totally. I am a Charles Hoskinson fan myself and Cardano has the best opportunity laid down to be the ecosystem Ethereum could have deserved to be. It's nacient technology that shouldn't be taken as complete in any way shape or form.

Let's hope for a decade of Creative Destruction and Accumulation. Every $10,000 you can put in will be worth $1,000,000 in a Decade (inflation adjusted).

Cardano is seriously underrated. I think it's because the team has focused more on the technical side of the project instead of marketing/promotion. Compared with Ethereum, Cardano has a much more decentralized PoS algorithm. Fees are also dirt-cheap, making it extremely-convenient for "De-Fi". I know there are other competitors "on the scene", but I don't think any of them will last for long since they've left decentralization/censorship-resistance behind.

How far will ADA go in terms of market price, is beyond me. There are billions of coins in circulation, so that takes away our hopes of ADA reaching the "triple digits" in the future. At least, the Cardano blockchain works as intended. Who knows if it gets to compete with ETH in the future? Just my opinion

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Quote from: Abiky on December 13, 2021, 07:30:53 AM

Quote from: avikz on December 08, 2021, 12:54:06 PM

It's true that Gas fees are ridiculously high since a long time now and we are not seeing a resolution to this. It is actually creating market gap for BNB. Nowadays BNB has become the most preferred chain to complete transactions for the token owners.

Vitalik is definitely aware of this issue and I am sure bigger plans are ongoing in the background. ETH 2.0 is definitely coming sonner than later. Otherwise there's literally no solution to the high gas fees.

Developers are stalling by delaying network upgrades that would benefit the end user. The difficulty bomb has been extended, so ETH 2.0 will take quite a lot longer than expected for it to become a reality. I don't think it's hard to introduce a short-term solution for ETH's high fees. Developers could simply roll a new upgrade that would alleviate high gas fees until ETH 2.0 comes into fruition. What I see here is that miners don't want fees to go down, as it would mean less money for their pockets. I mean the higher the fees, the more money miners will make, right?

If this keeps going, I'm afraid BNB will take ETH's position as the second-largest cryptocurrency by market cap. It's unfortunate to see what's happening with ETH right now, when developers could've done something about it in the first place. They're only focused on ETH 2.0, instead of dealing with the current blockchain's situation. Of course, decentralization and security/reliability comes first. But sometimes enough is enough. Mainstream media don't say anything about the fees, because it's manipulated by big players on the market. I hope ETH 2.0 takes over the mainnet next year, or we can "say goodbye" to Ethereum for good. Just my opinion

I agree totally. I am a Charles Hoskinson fan myself and Cardano has the best opportunity laid down to be the ecosystem Ethereum could have deserved to be. It's nacient technology that shouldn't be taken as complete in any way shape or form.

Let's hope for a decade of Creative Destruction and Accumulation. Every $10,000 you can put in will be worth $1,000,000 in a Decade (inflation adjusted).

adaseb

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The gas fees lately have been fair. Paying $1 for a ERC20 or less than $1 to send ETH is fair. Most likely it won’t go much lower. Sure it was huge yesterday during the USDC mess but usually it’s not like that.

During 2021 there were times when you had to pay $50 just to send some USDT around, that was horrible. Right now we are past that since we got many L2 platforms which took a load off the main chain.

midasjohn

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I think your appraisal is bang on! Equally regarding usurious finance street and Etherium which for me is a massive MASSIVE aberration and monstrous detour from the way the blockchain should have developed. I'm not a maximalist however ... Similarly to all software, there's a best tool for the job. Bitcoin is best being Bitcoin.

Abiky

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Quote from: avikz on December 08, 2021, 12:54:06 PM

It's true that Gas fees are ridiculously high since a long time now and we are not seeing a resolution to this. It is actually creating market gap for BNB. Nowadays BNB has become the most preferred chain to complete transactions for the token owners.

Vitalik is definitely aware of this issue and I am sure bigger plans are ongoing in the background. ETH 2.0 is definitely coming sonner than later. Otherwise there's literally no solution to the high gas fees.

Developers are stalling by delaying network upgrades that would benefit the end user. The difficulty bomb has been extended, so ETH 2.0 will take quite a lot longer than expected for it to become a reality. I don't think it's hard to introduce a short-term solution for ETH's high fees. Developers could simply roll a new upgrade that would alleviate high gas fees until ETH 2.0 comes into fruition. What I see here is that miners don't want fees to go down, as it would mean less money for their pockets. I mean the higher the fees, the more money miners will make, right?

If this keeps going, I'm afraid BNB will take ETH's position as the second-largest cryptocurrency by market cap. It's unfortunate to see what's happening with ETH right now, when developers could've done something about it in the first place. They're only focused on ETH 2.0, instead of dealing with the current blockchain's situation. Of course, decentralization and security/reliability comes first. But sometimes enough is enough. Mainstream media don't say anything about the fees, because it's manipulated by big players on the market. I hope ETH 2.0 takes over the mainnet next year, or we can "say goodbye" to Ethereum for good. Just my opinion

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

In my opinion, Ethereum has became more of a manipulative coin like bitcoin rather than a utility token for dapps as transactions are costly and slow. There's no way of enjoying on chain games on Ethereum and dex are being used just for large conversion or staking. Games and transactions has moved to alternative and mostly compatible chains like BSC and polygon. They have made it easier for Ethereum projects and developers to migrate. I can't even remember when was the last I used an Ethereum dapp. Though ETH remains a prominent coin and could still be a profit cow if the minting of new coins regulated.

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Quote from: avikz on December 08, 2021, 12:54:06 PM

It's true that Gas fees are ridiculously high since a long time now and we are not seeing a resolution to this. It is actually creating market gap for BNB. Nowadays BNB has become the most preferred chain to complete transactions for the token owners.

Vitalik is definitely aware of this issue and I am sure bigger plans are ongoing in the background. ETH 2.0 is definitely coming sonner than later. Otherwise there's literally no solution to the high gas fees.

well, i definitely dont like burn fee mecanism EIP-1559.
https://etherscan.io/blocks
as you can see miner dont take all transaction to fill up their block because it will make Ethereum fees so high.
maintain high fees = more burn

kryptqnick

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I knew the fees on Ethereum were sometimes quite high, but I didn't notice the autumn discrepancy when Bitcoin fees are staying miraculously quite low, whereas Ethereum fees are worth 10-15 times as much! I haven't used Ethereum for a long time, so I didn't care to check the fees, but I'm guessing that it's not a very popular choice for actual usage, but that Ethereum rather holds its value due to being a great platform for other things (ICOs in the past, NFTs nowadays), so the fees aren't really a bummer for the big hodlers, as, after all, if we're talking about thousands of dollars or more, the fees aren't then high after all.

dansus021

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some investor only buy and hold in exchange , some of it only trade but people like me using on chain transaction from defi like staking farming and exchange and currently heavily project get inside play to earn and metaverse even cheap and fast transation like BSC can get congestion even tho still cheap comparing with eth

but in my opinion eth 2.0 still be there on roadmap and gonna be implemented soon

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

Actually no, such high gas fees are unjustified. I saw Ethereum's updated roadmap and I know that gas fees will be reduced as well as there will be code chunking. What is more, different rollups and layers 2 help Ethereum a lot so I think that we are moving in a right direction and this problem will be solved somehow: maybe by switching to Proof of Stake, maybe due to development of rollups and layers 2.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

Investors from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest like you said are not the only participants on crypto market. Unfortunately, I don't have such a statistics on how many investors don't interact with Ethereum but invest only via exchanges, but still there are a lot of crypto enthusiasts that suffer from high gas fees, so I am sure that Ethereum's team will solve this problem one day, otherwise they will lose all users.

adaseb

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Remember 2017 when we used to pay $50 for a simple transaction on the Bitcoin network. Nobody talked about it then in the media. I think it’s mostly due to the fact that most speculators never actually use the network. They either buy some ETF, or futures or they just leave it on their Coinbase account.

Same is happening with ETF. And their fees are more or less inline with what happened with Bitcoin in 2017 and nobody in the mainstream media complained about it. Most likely people are just in it for the big bucks and not really concerned how it actually works. Same with the people who buy certain stocks, they barely know the company , just like the company name and invest.

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Quote from: Jating on December 09, 2021, 02:53:40 AM

Quote from: Yogee on December 08, 2021, 09:07:36 PM

It's for the same reason why the transaction fees on the Bitcoin network is not discussed too often. It's been known for a few years now and it's not shocking anymore. There are still a few posts complaining but it doesn't get a lot of attention anymore.

Different case though, bitcoin fees have been reduced already for many months or even years now specially exchanges and people switching to Segwit.

The whole point there is people got used to it. The other day I saw Bitcoin fees surged to 20 sats/vbyte when I checked mempool.space but I didn't see anyone complaining about it. I see Ethereum gas price at 100 gwei and people think it's just "normal" or "not shocking" anymore.

Rehan Zakir

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Because new projects are built on bsc chain or other chains. They did not choose to build their project on eth chain. It's fees is very high and anyone cannot afford this high fees for transaction. So, media did not discuss it. Matic chain, Solana , bsc, avax, and there are many other chains are very cheap for transaction fees

evichi

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The news of ethereum gas fees is already well know by most people in the crypto space. It probably may not sound surprising to most people who are already aware of the outrageous gas fees. What will probably make news now is to hear that ethereum gas fees are now low-which is yet to be achieved. Ethereum have gone a longway that I believe Vitalik is seriously working hard to make the gas fees low. Ethereum 2.0 project is designed to .are make ethereum gas fees low - moving from proof of work to proof of stake. I believe ethereum team are not resting.
While it is taking time to achieve this goal, I believe the ethereum team have the capability to achieve Ethereum 2.0 and break the news to the crypto lovers.

TopTort777

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High transaction fees are not discussed in the media because no on is interested in reading about it. This is like a fundamental truth, or a stability. Why bother about that? People are more exited to read about how much Bitcoin prices has dropped. Or who got hacker or how much a person has lost from X project or Y actions. Writing about "Shocking Ethereum fees" is like publishing a newspaper in UK with an article titled "It rains in London" on the first page.

mu_enrico

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Because people in the media are clueless.

It's clear that reworking the protocol is extremely difficult, hence I think the ETH 2.0 will never really working as planned. They will still launch "ETH 2.0" but with lots of limitation to avoid bad PR. The base protocol is crap, but fortunately for ETH, there are many good developers in ETH community, so come ICO, DEFI, NFT... That's the main selling point for ETH. Regarding the question about fair appraisal, well all crypto are overvalued at the moment IMO.

StarKay

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ETH 2.0 will come soon since Ethereum developers mostly stick to their plans just that no specific date has been given.
And talking about Ethereum gas fees not being discussed in the media shows how little time is given to Cryptocurrency in the MSM generally otherwise it will be making headlines.

so98nn

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Yup, ethereum is pretty much broke but the fact is most of the project are running on its core and paying heavy charges to park their so called crypto projects! This is what making the ETH go on and on. Besides this most of the tokens and coins are bought against ETH pair in the initial days, or also right after they are getting listed somewhere.

There is huge number of ETH miners too. Surprisingly ETH is second most profitable coin and this is what making more workers/miners to keep this in their possession. Let’s not forget this emission is in millions of USD getting pumped into ETH economy.

Fees are surely high, but look at the above side of the ETH economy, it’s getting injected with great amount of money from different ways. Fees are Tiny for those and thus it’s only problem of you and me who are transacting at lower amounts.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

IMO, I believe that when time Ethereum fees began to skyrocket and persist for a long time, Its fairness has already gone too, how come those rockstar founders have not done any remedy to make the gas fees more affordable when they create Ethereum they said that they created it to empower the people now how could you empower the people with that very expensive transaction fees. Im sorry to say this but your EIP-1559 is a dud and useless it never made the transaction fees stable.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

The ethereum network continues to be systematically updated so far, and there are no signs that the Ethereum 2.0 update may be unsuccessful. In addition to the general assumption that the level of transaction costs in the network will decrease after the completion of this update, on November 24, Buterin came up with a proposal for a special improvement to the ethereum network, which should reduce gas fees by about five times. After that, I see that the rate of ethereum price growth has increased markedly. Ethereum will be fine.

Rahman11

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Ethereum 2.0 to the rescue

Luckily, the launch of Ethereum 2.0 would definitively lower these gas fees to an near-zero levels, making it easier for people to access DeFi services.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

It isn't a new thing that is why its not really shocking and most whales never cared about even the fee is $100 because they are dealing in millions so only the small investors are affected and get stuck with their token value is less than the gas fee required to transfer. ETH 2.0 is expected to come and solve this issue for sure but until that investors will stick or move on with some loss.

Jating

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Quote from: Yogee on December 08, 2021, 09:07:36 PM

It's for the same reason why the transaction fees on the Bitcoin network is not discussed too often. It's been known for a few years now and it's not shocking anymore. There are still a few posts complaining but it doesn't get a lot of attention anymore. One particular reason why these people continue to use Ethereum and erc-20 tokens is they are earning more so they can easily take care of the fees.

Different case though, bitcoin fees have been reduced already for many months or even years now specially exchanges and people switching to Segwit.

While the much highly anticipated Eth2.0 was supposedly to solved the issues of high gas fees. This problems appeared in 2017 and early 2018 when cryptokitties surges and up to know the devs behind Ethereum doesn't have any solution about the fees. Maybe the move from PoS to PoW was the real culprit or the Eth validators are greedy.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Totally agreed with your opinion about ethereum. that's a broken blockchain with non sense fees and so many collusion happened on it (miners).

Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

No, So many of them were only following the hype but you can't sure that if all of those wallstreet investors never moving their ethereum from exchange site to the personal wallet. I do believe if this time ethereumw was a broken blockchain with crazy fees but im sure that those wallstreet investors have ever moved their ethereum to the personal wallet. That's why it's not a fair appraisal for them.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

I think this is a unfair judgment, it's undeniable that fees have been a major issue for years on eth and until now the developers have no solution for this issue, but you can see that they are still in second place after BTC, eventough this issue discussed over and over. No decline in their position means ETH remains an option but I'm sure if this issue is not resolved gradually ETH will be replaced because crypto that can only be traded without onchain action will not be an option.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

Very unfair in my opinion because I have never seen Ethereum as a broken coin and still has a greater value compared to other Altcoins and also the volume is still very large so that Ethereum can still stay in a good position, so not because of transaction fees which is expensive, you say Ethereum is broken, this is not fair.

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Quote from: avikz on December 08, 2021, 12:54:06 PM

It's true that Gas fees are ridiculously high since a long time now and we are not seeing a resolution to this. It is actually creating market gap for BNB. Nowadays BNB has become the most preferred chain to complete transactions for the token owners.

Vitalik is definitely aware of this issue and I am sure bigger plans are ongoing in the background. ETH 2.0 is definitely coming sonner than later. Otherwise there's literally no solution to the high gas fees.

This is their main concern right now and as soon as they see the decline of users on their graph, they will mainly focus to fix it because that's the only thing that will make them change their minds. When they only see that nothing has changed, and their users are still increasing despite their main problem, then they won't really give some time to fix it. It might be hard for the small investors but as everyone knows, when money involves, the one who gets the benefit will not be bothered about what really happening in his surroundings.

libert19

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Fees seem absurd because of price, I checked my old transactions and fees have been pretty much same. What's reasoning behind 'ether 2' may never come?

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

Its actually been discussed like people knows the loop and thread, but people that are as you said buying not on chain are too afraid to make this as fud. It's not like they are literally buying a fake eth but a share like on stock that doesn't have fees on blockchain. Im sure you know what happened when constant fud arises, well the degen knows this and shifting other chain so it doesn't a big deal anyway.

Yogee

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It's for the same reason why the transaction fees on the Bitcoin network is not discussed too often. It's been known for a few years now and it's not shocking anymore. There are still a few posts complaining but it doesn't get a lot of attention anymore. One particular reason why these people continue to use Ethereum and erc-20 tokens is they are earning more so they can easily take care of the fees.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

Ethreum high fees is already become a concern for most crypto communities and everybody talk about it recently, mostly this year. People are sharing how to reduce the fees with finding the right time for doing the transaction which when the network is not crowded.
I think the network fee is too high because the transaction is multiply each day which means there are still many people out there transaction using eth network.
I'm agree that the fee is broken right now, but i'm sure the ETH devs are not cover their ears for this problem, they must be find the solution to solve this problem.

TravelMug

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It has been discussed to death here in the community, maybe those Wallstreets are noobs or just simply buying and holding ETH that's why they don't care about the increasing gas fees.

And as far as the fees is concern, it's supposedly fix with the latest iteration, but it's not. So I guess we really have to wait for the next phase of ETH (lost count already). But I'm not sure if they can totally solved this shocking fees, validators are making a killing of it so why change the business model?

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

My opinion is that this absurd Ethereum fee has been persisting for a long time (2-3 years now) that journalist think that making a topic about won't be shocking or new. People already know the Ethereum is like this for a long time. There's been enough articles and news talking about it in the past that it wouldn't make much sense to make more.

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Quote from: midasjohn on December 08, 2021, 12:34:36 PM

I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

You are certainly right. The fees on the Ethereum network are very high and this issue is no longer covered in the media. I believe that the fact is that large investors and players are satisfied with this state of affairs and do not pay attention to the commissions in the Ethereum network. As a result, the Ethereum network becomes available only to large investors, and the rest will either simply go to another network or simply pay a high commission. As for the launch of a solution to this problem, I believe that this is actually not a problem, but an originally thought and implemented action by the Ethereum team. But if it is necessary to reduce the commissions, then they can do it without problems, but at the moment it is probably more profitable for them to leave everything as it is.

avikz

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It's true that Gas fees are ridiculously high since a long time now and we are not seeing a resolution to this. It is actually creating market gap for BNB. Nowadays BNB has become the most preferred chain to complete transactions for the token owners.

Vitalik is definitely aware of this issue and I am sure bigger plans are ongoing in the background. ETH 2.0 is definitely coming sonner than later. Otherwise there's literally no solution to the high gas fees.

midasjohn

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I believe because most 'Investors' in the space that have just arrived from Wall Street or Sherwood Forest are buying and selling nominal Ethereum on the Exchanges without ever performing an onchain action. Ethereum is utterly broken and 2.0 may never come.

Do you think this is a fair appraisal?

Topic: Q:Why isn't the Shocking Ethereum Fees discussed more in Media? A:... (Read 230 times)