Topic: r0ach proven right - Bitcoin market is a Gox-style fraud controlled by Bitfinex (Read 1917 times)

Bitfinex has very strongly compromised itself last year. That time I was very much convinced that this exchange had failed and no one would turn to their services. But for today we see a completely different situation. I would like all exchanges to start working on altcoin to us too. And besides, I give the opportunity to many markers.

It's not so much the peg that's the problem, it's possibility that it's currently pegged to absolutely zilch.

And most people aren't bright enough to read the terms and conditions. They're blithely assuming they're as good as dollars. If enough people question it then and they test that and there turns out to be nothing there then we got problems. 

So the problem is the "hypotetical" peg? I have in some rare ocassions used tether (and even margin traded it), but I was always aware that it's peg to $1 was just some probability. If people think it's an infalible $1 peg, they are using it wrong. If I ever feel it is going to crash I will short it on Kraken.

It's an altcoint, not anything with real GARANTEED value. That is even CLEARLY expressed in its terms of use.

So, to be able to get out even, are they artificially pumping bitcoin? It didn't work out for Mt.Gox, why would it work out for bitfinex?

Even if you yourself don't care about it, its ramifications in the case of it turning out to be nowt but hot air are rather huge.

Bitcoin's rise coincided almost to the day with the end of Bitfinex's real banking. Tether went from about $5-10 million issued before that to over $300 million now.

It's also spread hugely into the alt markets. If it fails, and nothing pegged has ever survived in the long run, then a lot of people will be left with nothing and confidence in the whole market will be seriously shaken.

But... what's tether? a $300 million market cap altcoin? Irrelevant... except for those burned on it in spite of all warnings.

https://hackernoon.com/the-curious-tale-of-tethers-6b0031eead87

A pretty good summary here.

BFX has been shitting in our faces for years on end. At some point it will come to a head and it really, really will not be pretty.

Gold bugs will switch to bitcoin

Both bitcoin and gold are scarce commodities with a finite supply, notes Tom Lee of Fundstrat. Both, arguably, have no particular utility beyond the value ascribed to them by the markets.

In July, Lee published a report setting out the case for valuing bitcoin as a gold substitute, according to CNBC. His methodology implies bitcoin’s price will reach $20,000 to $55,000 in five years, representing a 12 to 43-fold increase from today’s price. The value of all the world’s gold is around $7.6 trillion at current prices, or around 130 times the size of the bitcoin market. As bitcoin’s market value rises, Lee reckons central banks will start buying it, pushing the price up further and “accelerating the substitution of gold,” he told CNBC.


Source: https://qz.com/1047848/btc-price-the-case-for-5000-bitcoin/

P.S.: In fact it may be happening already as we have one big time gold/silver bug spending most of his time in this very same Bitcoin forum

P.S.2.: Bitfinex is almost irrelevant now in comparison with MtGOX in 2013/14.

Stop asking the same question over and over.  All you have to do is manipulate whatever the market maker exchange is and the others follow.  It doesn't matter if Bitfinex has less market share than Gox.  If anything that just makes it easier for them to move price since people look to them to determine price in the west regardless.  A single entity/person has controlled the price on Bitfinex all the way from $200 to now the vast majority of the time.

I agree with you here. I ready the whole spoofy story and agree that manipulation does take place in Bitcoin trading and has always done so... however I do not think that 1 exchange slavishly follows another especially when the one to follow is Bitfinex. As an example yesterday I sold a couple of Bitcoins on Kraken for £2800 ($3650), coins on all the other £ exchanges sold for around £2650. And are further down today... so no one followed that ath.

I don't see how this is comparable to mtgox in scale or ability to manipulate.

How can btc be controled by Bitfinex if they only have around 10% of the trade volume and MtGox used to have the vast majority of trade volume in the early days(up to 80%)?

For one, if true they've already played that hand, and it wouldn't work again... nobody would buy it and they'd likely be indicted.  For another at the volume it's at now it's out of their hands.  Confidence will be the only thing that influences the value of BTC from this point on. 

Selling off your BTC for Gold is something only to be done when you can sense a drop coming, and there are signs/trends that, while hardly concrete, can hint at when that's going to occur.  And to be honest it could again very soon.  I predicted (correctly) the last time it happened, and within a few days the price went from nearly 3K to the 2100-2200 range.  The thing is though it then rose then stabilized around the 2500-2600 range in less than a week.  I expected the drop to be more severe.  When I saw that I realized the currency had even more potential than I imagined, and that the only thing keeping it there was apprehension over the whole Segwit thing.  When I, among many others realized it would amount to a non-event I knew it would explode again, and once again correctly predicted it would climb, and encouraged everyone that may have sold when it was near 3K to re-invest again (look in the archives in this sub-forum if you don't believe me).  Only I expected that once it hit 3K it would get to 4K before you could blink.  Now that I see it stabilizing around the 3400-3500 mark, well, for the first time in awhile I'm not sure what to do next.  I'll be watching closely for the next few days, hour by hour, to see if it's time to pull again or to stay the course longer. 

I did make a little extra money in the down-time buying gold coins just above spot and getting them slabbed & certified by NGC, then selling them on EBay.  It was better than keeping it in the bank.  You can make about $100 per 1 oz. coin by doing this.  One of them was even "burnished" (rare).  I'd say it's the safest & best way to turn a sure profit without having your money tied up.  But just gold by itself is a stagnant investment these days.  Silver too.  All I heard for years was to turn your fiat money into gold & silver, but it's actually lost value in the recent past. 

Yes but to say that this is a "MtGox style" kind of manipulation is far from the truth. Bitfinex does not have close to the dominance of MtGox in volume on the whole Bitcoin market. How do you expect "Spoofy" to manipulate everything?

Not to inflate OP's ego any further... but did anyone else see the 4000+ BTC sell wall around $3400 on BFX one block from segwit lock in?

I am afraid I would have to agree. Nothing is actually proven. A story printed in Zerohedge, alleging that there is an entity called "Spoofy" manipulating Bitfinex and they therefore conclude he is also manipulating the whole Bitcoin market, does not prove anything.

What it proves is there are like-minded people in Bitcoin that have put their tin foil hats on.

I do believe that there is market manipulation in Bitcoin from time to time. But there is no single entity called "Spoofy" controlling all.

Listen shill, this thread is about obvious Bitfinex fraud, which no matter how hard you try you are not going to derail the thread from.  Your statement that bitcoin is guaranteed to increase to "trillions" while metals will go down when they're already at cost of production is also a joke.  Having said that, this thread is about Bitfinex fraud, not your other market delusions.

Im not a bitfinex shill and I couldn't care less if there was manipulation or not. If you are an adult you should consider by default that all markets are manipulated to some extent, including gold, yet I don't see you talking about gold market manipulation.

Once Bitcoin is worth trillions, the manipulation will be less noticeable like gold, because it becomes harder to have a big impact on the price. Until then, Bitcoin will keep going up, metals will continue being a disappointment.

The only thing interesting about the IMF is that enough goyim know malevolent, evil jews are running the media and financial institutions now that it's probably inevitable right wing death squads form to get rid of the parasites.

I read that story with interest. It's one case of blatant market manipulation by bad actors. The funds their working with are high, but still a smallish portion of the current outstanding supply. If groups or individuals were to seek to manipulate the market for their own "gain" they would likely be up against others doing the same

Looking at the gold market for example one can see China and other countries, as well as many financial crooks ahem, I mean banks and institutions accumulating alot of physical gold on the quite. People with lots of funds likely wouldn't start buying btc in mass at once, as it would push the price up too fast. A clever manipulator might instead push prices around, and buy up a large quantity of btc over quite an extended amount of time - they would likely have to have a bit of time to pull off any attempt at accumulating a large portion of the supply before prices rose significantly due to less supply on the market - or even if the mkt manipulator acumulated a bunch, and used a portion of that supply to continue accumulating, - the more they kept on the table and not stashed - the greater the risk of another mkt manipulator buying up their supply in one go and hodling.
Whales generally don't go against other whales in this manner, but not always so.

Such greed and desire for direct ownership over a large portion of btc's supply is limited by other actors, groups and the like with similar goals.
Then there's groups like the IMF that simply add any potential "Threats" to their - one currency to rule them all style bogus special drawing rights. More specifically SDR's act like a sort of index, tracking currencies almost like one could create a stock index. The IMF is unfortunately already in talks and meetings to try and add BTC and the like. But it might be interesting in future years to see how the IMF tries dealing with the vast vast proliferation of currencies that will become easier and easier to create >:]

LOL nice try shill, calling easy to recognize Bitfinex fraud a "conspiracy theory".  This is no "theory", they made their fraud blatantly obvious for all to see.

>r0ach proven right
>thread started by r0ach himself

Let's eat silver for breakfast.

What are you talking about? Of course is matters. It is not very easy to control an entire market unless the "entity" has cornered or at least have the majority of volume of the entire Bitcoin market.

I will believe that story if someone proved every big exchange is in on the manipulation of the whole market.

This is nothing but conspiracy theory thus far. What is clear is, Bitcoin was the thing to hold and still is, and gold should have been dumped a long time ago. Look at the graphs and see for yourself.

Sorry r0ach, but you did a big mistake dumping all of your coins a long time ago and betting for gold, time to admit that.

Gemini (the winklevoss exchange) does ether trading.

And GDAX (coinbase's exchange) does ether and litecoin and you can trade eth and ltc against various fiat currencies as well.

looking forward to it, looks promising, waiting for something like that for years !

everything has a bellwether. wars don't get started by millions of people, they're started by a small group and it grows from there as others follow. same goes for a rally. bitfinex was the usd leader for a long time so it's natural others would have been swept up in it.

bitfinex is the biggest threat to the health of the crypto markets. if it isn't their bullshit with their exchange, it's usdt too and that could be way more catastrophic.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was true.

Brexit caught EVERYONE by surprise, not just bitcoin traders,, but the forex markets and stock markets worldwide. I even remember some really big hedge funds trying to panic sell commercial property (which is not the type of thing you can sell quickly) after the referendum. They mist feel like fools now, especially as a whole bunch of businesses have relocated to London to occupy said comercial property.

Wait till November-December and use BLOCKNET decentralized exchange. It will be finished by the end of this year. You make trade including margin trading so that your coins never go to third parties. You keep all your private keys. The most secure way to trade!

I'm messing with alts since 2013, but thanks for advise not to profit ...

nope, but again thanks

ok so clearly if bitfinex is evil, what exchange we should use for other than btc trades?
I mean, stamp offers only limited currencies, poloniex is no go, kraken looks shady-ish as well... so which one?

Hey r0ach, if it`s so easy to make $ by initiating movements, why you don`t you pump altcoins?   

As I already explained, you don't need to control all the volume in the market.  All you have to do is initiate the move and other exchanges follow.

Might be that bitfinex is evil, I don't know.
But it can't control the bitcoin market, bitfinex has by far not enough volume for that.

I think the simplest explanation is the time directly after they announced that they do not have banking partners anymore.
Because of that Bitfinex price was very different to all other markets and also price of Tether was not 1$ anymore. No exchange followed bitfinex movement anymore.

The Spoofy report claims, that there is no one who can deposit/withdraw USD, at least no one who could compite with spoofy. But this is wrong. If there still would be no deposit/withdrawal of USD, bitfinex would still have a very different price compared to bitstamp and other exchanges. But the prices are as usual (like they were before the "no banks" thing). So there is at least one big guy or many that is able to deposit/withdraw money.

Yes there might be some fishy things going on on bitfinex, I don't have prooves against it. But I'm very sure that this is not influencing the global bitcoin price much.
And I'm also quite sure, that this "Spoofy" is just a regular whale that is making big money by unregulated bitcoin market. A whale with knowledge about normally forbidden trading practices would be stupid to not use them in unregulated bitcoin market and get even more rich.

The volume isn't what matters.  What matters is that usually when the price goes up or down, it's almost always from Bitfinex moving the market and other exchanges following.  This is how things have been all the way from $200 to now usually.  The few times when it's not is when there's a large amount of shorts on Okcoin and then someone (possibly the exact same entity) goes onto Okcoin to manipulate that market and squeeze them. There isn't a real market for bitcoin.  It's just whatever this scammer entity on Bitfinex manipulates it to.  He usually tries to manipulate upwards (just like Gox), but has attempted downwards before as well such as during Brexit.

Does Bitfinex have the same kind of influence as MtGox did in the past though? Mtgox had the majority of trading volume during its peak while Bitfinex today does not have anything close to what MtGox had. But I agree, Bitfinex also has done other questionable things in the past, like socializing losses from the latest hack and giving their users 15% less of their BitcoinCash.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Bitfinex has always been shady. And there's been plenty of red flags that point to insolvency and the notion that the hack was very suspect.

But this needs to be said, so I hope that they are reading this.

BITFINEX, IF YOU HAVE BEEN NAKED SHORTING ON YOUR OWN EXCHANGE, ARE INDEED INSOLVENT, AND IT HAS BEEN DISCOVERED THAT YOU HACKED YOUR OWN EXCHANGE IN AN EFFORT TO DEVISE A COVER STORY FOR YOUR LOSSES...

...THE FEDS ALREADY KNOW ABOUT IT, AND YOU HAVE A GIGANTIC BULLS-EYE ON YOUR BACK RIGHT NOW. EXPECT MT. GOX STYLE CONSEQUENCES SOONISH^TM.

Bitfinex is a replica of MtGox

Zerohedge just posted a story in mainstream news about what I've been talking about for years now:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-06/mysterious-trader-nearly-unlimited-bankroll-said-be-manipulating-bitcoin-price

I first wrote about how it appeared Bitfinex had someone with unlimited amounts of money that traded exactly the opposite way of anyone who would be trying to make a profit during the halving/brexit period.  My hypothesis was that Bitfinex owners were trading on their own exchange and got caught on the wrong side of the trade due to Brexit and rendered insolvent, so they then claimed they were "hacked" and lost all the bitcoins.

There's a link to my post and picture/commentary from over a year ago:



http://steemit.com/news/@r0achtheunsavory/bitfinex-is-lying-about-the-hack-and-i-can-tell-you-exactly-what-likely-happened

And another one of my posts from over a year ago right after they came back online:







https://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-vol-3-bitfinex-scamming-intensifies-and-more-on-the-silver-and-gold-markets