Topic: Re: Startup Crypto ATM Project (Europe) - BATM Network Profit Share (MVP) (Read 270 times)

Yes, at a surface level and we are still open and not fully decided. We may even go with different machines in different areas/regions.

Is there a specific reason you mention them? Any input and opinions from users is a big help. Thanks.

How about Lamassu BTMs? Did you look into their products and support packages?

Is anyone using General Bytes machines? Pros/Cons or any opinion on which is the best manufacturer to go with? Some people recommend building our own machines but seems a bit complicated (at least for now). We are not looking to reinvent the wheel, just make it turn and make a steady income. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

Thanks for the heads up. I will message you and definitely look into BC.

Good to hear, OP. I've been meaning to find some kind of reasonable way to invest in a bitcoin business that isn't mining and this does seem like something possibly profitable, but I've just never been able to find a reason why those that seem to not work don't, and then there are lessons to take from Bitcoin City (Arnhem) in Netherlands. Let's catch up privately!

Thanks. That is the perfect way to put it, "tokenise the investment", I should have made that clear to start.

We would prefer two-way machines as well, and I used them to SELL (BTC-> CASH) here, but I never used a BATM to BUY Bitcoin. But to "dip our toe" on the first machine we plan to go with Buy only, because the regulation is so easy (Spain it is considered a vending machine) and get into the 2-way a.s.a.p.

So there are some concerns with the 1-way but the installations do keep rising, and if the current operators have been honest with me, the 1-way machines do pretty well here (break even at 5 months, including purchase, installation, rent, maintenance - not including the Bitcoin itself which can be handled a few different ways). And I agree 100% there is absolutely value in further market research and we will continue to do this vigorously.

Thanks for the response, I'll reply back in kind when I'm a bit more able to!

Now that I understood more that you'll simply be using existing tech (GB machines, which I'm definitely familiar with), and you just want to tokenise the investment, then okay, it does seem far simpler than it seemed earlier.

I'm not sure about only one-way -- I see no problem in getting the approval from regulators for 2-way machines but perhaps you're right that the target market is just users who need Bitcoin. But this is where you need to be careful and spend more money and time on actual market research to identify the viability and demographic in Spain.

Because the guy who installed it in the airport thought he had a good idea with the only BATM in perhaps the busiest airport in this part of the world, AND in a country that has a high concentration of Bitcoin merchants. But he turned out to be wrong.

Why invest in any project? I suppose you would only invest anything if you thought the future value of the return would be greater than the present value of the investment. If you could invest €10K to operate machine for a year that returned €2K a month, it might make sense.

An IPO as in equity? The dividend is the idea but through an ICO/STO for the token to represent a proportional/fractional share of fees from all the machines on the network, distributed back to the token holders. You could keep your Bitcoins, but you wouldn't get a return from the project.

For any IPO you would have to invest as well, or maybe I don't understand the comment.

Why would anyone invest in worthless tokens rather than keeping their bitcoins? It would make more sense to start an IPO and returning divident in BTC.

A few questions regarding the token...

A token that grows in Bitcoin!

Our token idea is a fractional ownership token which allows users to receive a fraction of each transaction fee for every BATM on the network.

The token grows in Bitcoin value with each Bitcoin ATM transaction. Tokens receive a direct profit share of each transaction, instantly! This also includes profit share from all future Bitcoin ATMs, giving the token tremendous growth potential.

BATM Token Features:

-   Tokens are limited in supply
-   Every transaction fee is divided and distributed equally to each token in the fractional ownership program pool
-   The fees distributed to the token are paid in Bitcoin
-   The token grows in Bitcoin with each transaction made at any Bitcoin ATM within the fractional ownership program pool
-   Any token sold is paid out in Bitcoin value accumulated within that token, at which time the fractional ownership token is burned
-   Burned tokens means supply is decreased, however the number of machines remains the same or increases
-   Fewer tokens means larger profit share to each token

A few questions on if this token is possible:

I have seen similar types of transactions advertised in other projects but I would appreciate any insight from those of you with technical knowledge.

1. Is it possible to have the BATM fees paid/distributed evenly and directly across all tokens? (Can a custom, ie. ERC20 token hold the value of the BTC, for example can you hold the value/or pay BTC into another token? or would it simply represent a proportion of a wallet, for example pay the fees into a wallet and have the custom token represent a portion of the wallet?)

2. Could this be done instantly with every transaction?

3. Would there be any disadvantage of a token compared to simply having a dividend distribution of the fees to the owners wallets?

Thanks.

A bit more...

Who should own this token?

The HODL strategy for this token is based on the belief that the price and popularity of Bitcoin will rise over the next 3-year period or more, which means the token will capture profits from three areas:

1.   Growth in user base
2.   Growth in Bitcoin value
3.   Growth in Bitcoin ATM installations

Seems like you have really done your homework.
Will keep an eye on this thread and do please keep us all updated . Again good luck 

To add to this...

Our idea is more or less to form a group (or crowdfund) the first machine (or machines) to use as a pilot project (MVP).

The pilot project would consist of:

 - Purchasing the first machines (General Bytes)
 - Installation (Locations have been negotiated)
 - Operating
 - Equal Distribution of Fees
 - Showing PROOF of Viability

Then if the pilot project proves to be viable, we could move to a Pre-sale for expansion, if necessary, and everyone who contributed during the pilot project would get a significant bonus for the Pre-sale, if they decided to participate. Then, if this was successful, do the same thing for a full token release (ICO/ITO/STO etc.).

This is why it would be advantageous to have more people involved in the pilot project. A single investor could easily fund the pilot project. A single one-way machine could be implemented for €10K, but then expansion would be more difficult. If 1,000 people contributed 10€, then the expansion could be done through the same group (plus they would retain the full profit share of the growth, plus spread investment risk and operating risk) with no Pre-sale offering necessary. If 10,000 people contributed €1, etc. (huge expansion, no risk, but very little to gain  )

Okay, thanks, I will check the PM. We do have a competitor analysis (for BATM operators) and a lot more detail in the Whitepaper. We didn't put that up yet as we are still seeking answers. Our goal is to get some private funding first, create the MVP, test the waters, and if it works, we could start properly marketing the project.

I agree with viability. The current operators here (Spain) do keep adding machines so the numbers do not lie, however I have seen other machines close down during the same period. So the question remains, does this really work? Which is why we want to implement a few (starting with one) test machines. I believe LOCATION is the big difference, as in most businesses. The numbers show tremendous growth, but we need proof it works before we start marketing ourselves as a successful business.

You mention the airport, but I don't think it is the right location now (I did at first) but now that I really started using Bitcoin the airport is inconvenient for me being in the city, and they are typically far from high traffic areas. Although I do see some other good points for them (people passing through from areas they cannot buy or need to cash out while traveling), but right now I think typical users are more repeat users who use Bitcoin for payment or FOMO speculators.

Also, I think there is a need for adoption (which would create more demand for ATMs). I was stuck without cash recently, and there was NOT ONE SINGLE STORE that I could spend my Bitcoin in order to buy anything of necessity (ie. a grocery store)! Nowhere. So we are also looking at promoting the idea of store owners accepting Bitcoin. There may not yet be a huge demand to buy food with Bitcoin, but had a single market accepted Bitcoin, they would have had my business more than once.

Thank you for the input. We have spoken with several operators local here (we are in Barcelona) and definitely checked the regulations. In Spain, the one-way machines fall under "vending machine" regulations so there is very little regulation and the licensing is very easy (especially compared to the two-way machines, which fall under banking regulations). We plan to use a "one-way" penetration strategy and gradually move into operating a full range of machines and stores.

You are right as well, the people have been helpful. Thanks for your positivity 

Thanks, good questions/comments - This is definitely not an "Announcement" of the project and we definitely need to seek several answers to the project. Are only goal now is the first installation as the MVP.

As far as a prototype, we do not plan on building new machines, only operating them. We will use General Bytes machines.

The Whitepaper is not there, those are only beta type explainers to give an overall idea to the small group of people we have interested in helping to develop the pilot project (it was meant for a private group so I maybe made a mistake to put the link). We do have a Whitepaper which explains the project better but we are still seeking answers. The webpage/project has not been promoted in any way but now that you mentioned it we will update the docs.

Great idea and really hope it works out well for you and the company . Kudos to anyone who starts a business 
I do believe that your first objective should be checking the Spanish regulations on owning a btc atm. You need to check all legislation and what licenses you need . I’m not sure if you have done this already , but I don’t think you’ll get many investors unless EVERYTHING is covered. Legal costs can be very high.
May I suggest, that you get in contact with other Spanish btc  atm companies , if you haven’t done already , and get as much advice as possible.
Bitcoiners, I find are very helpful folk and I’m sure even your ‘ competitors’ will help you out , as much as possible.
Anyway , hope this helps a bit and REALLY wish you good luck 

To show investors that the project is viable you should start by building a prototype first.
You might have a "detailed" plan on how things might unfold once you get the money but who is going to throw money at your project when all you have is a plan?
Second, do you have permission from General Bytes to use the image of their products in your ..let's call it whitepaper?

Looks pretty cool, but missing a few key aspects. The first for me, quite importantly, is the competitor analysis. BATMs aren't new in Europe, and even where I live, with a Bitcoin city nearby you don't see many, and I've still yet to see an actual person using one, much less queueing up for one. The one installed at the capital's major airport also shut down only after a few months, so I wonder seriously if it's at all viable, given the closures and the (admittedly circumstantial) lack of evidence of use.

Still, the growth must mean something, so this is interesting for me. I've PM'd some other questions!

Hello everyone,

We have a plan to install and operate Bitcoin/Crypto ATMs across Europe (starting in Spain).

Our first objective is to raise money and implement the first machine (pilot project MVP) to show future investors the project is viable, and then use the pilot model to add machines, eventually creating pilot MVPs in other countries and repeating the process.

The business model is very simple yet should prove to be very profitable. The industry stats show no signs of slowing down - https://coinatmradar.com/charts/ is showing installations are growing daily with the meter at full go.

The project would start with a simple, equal profit share with a goal of developing a fractional ownership program where the token grows in Bitcoin value.

We have big ambitions, however the first step is to get the first machine installed and operating so we can do a test run. We expect to adjust the plan and make the necessary changes as we develop. As well, much of the future financing will come from more traditional areas (typical capital raise).

If you have a similar interest in this type of project let me know.