Topic: Redefining “exchange rates” to “excellence indice” in “democracy term” (Read 178 times)

The system shares and system coins are two different concept.
You can earn the system share because of your active participation in system activities. Then because of this shares you will get payed by community’s money, from community’s treasury in proportion to your shares. Then you can spend your coins in exchange of goods or services. You can give your coins to everyone you want either another community member or your grocery store. Having community coins doesn’t grants any rights in community like having USD which doesn’t grant you voting in US election.
Sorry it was my partial article, I'll write a complete guide about coinbase block and related mechanisms soon.

The difference here is that USD doesn't grant any rights to the holder other than itself being a financial asset unlike the community idea presented on your articles. You mentioned that "get the money of one community, be part of it. Get rid of their money, leave their community and voting rights and other stuff." When a currency grants some rights to its holders, the value of the currency is not just determined by the amount of bread it can buy, but also the rights attached to it.

Hi Sterbens,
Thanks for sharing your idea.
Unfortunately the wrong direction of technology improvement caused to lose our precious abilities which we have obtained through thousands years of evolution. I am talking about ability of deep working in general, and here deep studying in particular.
Most probably you are right and too many will not reach to even half of my article. It is what it is. No one is forced to too.
You can dedicate enough time to read it and then debate it or just ignore it. I do not expect every click on article link finished in a serious discussion.

Good luck

are you writing a novel ?

I don't think you need to go overboard by adding too many paragraphs. Do you think it makes reading people spend 30 minutes of their time just trying to get to the heart of the topic you are creating? I guarantee it only takes 3 minutes, people will be bored with this topic.
I'm sure you don't even understand what you wrote, because if you do, then you can only summarize it into a few clear paragraphs and fiber of meaning.

When I describe a community, the last thing in mind is an state or a country. The community is a collection of people in different sex, race, nationality and even geo-location. And the point is “People can interact with communities at different levels”.
That is the real virtue of system. People can be only user of the money of a community as a "medium of exchange" or as a "store of value", and do no more engagement. Pretty like using USD in other countries. The Americans can not stop others using their Dollar, instead they will be more happy if the other nations prefer their dollar! More demand for their money results more valuable money. Thus communities will propagate their money, they will do everything to show how much heir money is good and how valuable is -comparing other communities monies-.
In deeper level, people can involve a little more and participate in community activities and decision making. In this stage may actual community members expose a level of pickiness. that’s ok too.
When I refer the “exchange rate” as a “excellence index” I do not emphasis on how internal mechanisms of a community will be! Instead I emphasis on how exposure of communities will be. In other world if many people believe in community X is a great community and wishes to join community X (either an ordinary citizen that has citizenship rights, or an active citizen in decision makings) or at least have some of their money, it denotes excellence and greatness in community X. thus the problem wont be the target community, instead will be the origin community which is no longer our favorite community and we want to leave it as soon as possible. In order to leave your current community you just need to get ride of its money. You want to sell your coins which are belonged to a corrupted community. More and more people will think like you, so more and more supply, more devaluation of coins. No need to violence.

I addressed this question in other article comments here.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56037080
BTW I repeat some parts here.
In my proposal, the first and primitive community will be a community of developers (not only software developers but also translators, designers, educational staff, etc). The first and main goal of this community is developing the software itself and improving it. This community ships that free  and open-source software. In the journey of developing the software we learn how will be the ideal community(or communities). We will start to constructive interact with each other, cultivate our “common world”, learn and educate the principles, define our core values, and help to rise up community reputation and strengthen our money.

This will be long long journey. I do not expect next year pay my taxes by community money, neither in next 10 years. We have to move step by step. For start we can imagine less than one percent of our yearly turn over done by community money. First of all we have to find some place to spend our coins in order to circulate a rational cash flow – neither spend it ASAP nor Hodl it for ever-. It should be started from online activities. e.g. some freelance working. Then it could be stretched to real-life by some small activities like gardening or dog walking or …
we do not wait for giant payment/service platforms like (paypal, gaming industry or Spotify, itunes, etc…) Neither exchanges. they are not our friend at all. They love fluctuation. They do everything to keep market unstable.
In long run, if we do great and our community money work better than Bitcoin, we will be the mainstream money, so no one needs to exchange community money to fiat in order to buy goods and services. It is all up to us.

This is exactly the opposite of what I have in mind. These geographical constraints are the reason of our today’s human misery. Why poor African can not take part in Apple board members to name the price of their own minerals? Why s/he can not be a even simple shareholder of the company and benefit from company revenue? Why they have to leave in poverty and their minerals be used in all hi-tech chips and sold hundred dollars each? Is it fair? Absolutely no. In our future communities there must be no discrimination based on race, sex, nationality or geological location.
The horizon is decentralize everything, particularly “decision making”. We have only one world and until now we ruined it more than enough, because all our solutions are concentrated to people one area in cost of destroying other places.
Indeed the future economy is online economy and interaction between online entities, so let's be a “decider” instead of a “naive consumer”.

Anonymous via email:

On article, basically you have defined a country (or a state) actually and named it a community. As you know, the problem with nationality is that you can't change it easily. And due to known reasons, countries tend to not allow people to immigrate to their country without valid reason. The online communities (such as gaming, chess, tv show ones and soccer etc.) are accepting new members easily simply because those communities are not actually effecting the community members' lives. On the other hand, some communities like "freemasonry" are really picky in terms of having new members because the community, or part of being their community is effecting their lives a lot. Same goes for family too, even legally, adoption or marriage are things that take time, some paper work and some commitment and promises just because of their effect on individuals' lives. Now the same would go for a new community model. At one point, if the defined currency on the article starts effecting members' lives (it will be effecting because at the end, it's the financial value that they afford their lives) they will be picky and changing communities, or even joining a different one will be a huge problem just like changing our nationalities.

I think you should first address the issues about how people form their relations with others, based on those others' effect on one's life, then the community idea could be further developed. Plus, as an example, legally I can't pay my taxes in any other currency than our national one. So I will have to exchange that community's currency to my national one at some point (just like Bitcoin exchange to fiat) because at the end, my government is the one that is building the roads and funding the army as well as feeding the stray cats. A community based online future would require community members settling down together at some physical location due to humans being a physical matter and not entities on the internet, and again, would be forming a state/country.

Let me draw a future in which you vote hundred times in a single day, and your vote impacts immediately. You are not limited to vote only for a person or for a vague plan of a party once every 4 or 5 years, instead you can vote for every single changes and upvote it or defiance it immediately. And most importantly this voting doesn’t take your time or energy. You just buy or sell your goods and services in exchange of money, like what we ALL are doing ALL days!

So lets dive into making future.
Imagine we have a software by which every group of people can establish an online community. A “truly” decentralized and censorship resilience community. So no one can stop the community, or cut its voice. The community is not bound to a certain nationality, Geo-location, race or language, so everyone can join to each community. They can join to the community that they aligned with or leave the community that they are not happy with. Indeed we all are doing same in our real life. We go to places we like and make friend and communicate with who we like. We simply avoid working with people who has nothing in common.

Assume different group of people, have installed the “Community Maker Engine” software and established their online communities. Each community will governed by different set of rules, some will be pure democratic and some other communities may have totalitarian rules. Each community has its customized economic systems for monetary, interest rate, inflation rate, taxation and wealth distribution. Eventually we will have different communities in population number, dispersion, wealth and popularity. Some communities follow market economy, whereas other communities are pure socialist and have some kind of coupons for managing “necessity of life”, and some another communities seeking gift-economy model and they do not have any form of money at all. The software supports all of these different types of rules and communications in vary communities.
Having these hundred or thousands different community, inevitably, communities need to trade with each other, since It is almost impossible for one society not to need the goods or services of another. This need for trade between communities (More precisely, the trade between a person who has the money of community 1 and a person who has the money of community 2) creates the concept of exchange rate between currencies of communities. Two individual can directly change their different coins with agreement on a change rate between themselves.

“For any reason” there will be communities that their money is more valuable than other communities. Later we will go into details “Why the money of a community is valuable than other ones”.
Now suppose the exchange-rates is fairly adjusted and not manipulated by speculators or conspiracy activities. We will discuss this in detail later.

Brief Recap:
- They are coexisting different communities with different currencies, different governing rules and economic system, different order class and different structures. Although the communities are online, but they represent some real people in real world and their believes. Later we will go back to impact of these online societies on real world situation.
- There are exchange rates between currencies  of different communities.

The “exchange rates” between different communities monies generally are flat, and are determined by supply and demand on the “open market” between communities. There are several technical and fundamental factors that determine what people perceive is a fair exchange rate and alter their supply and demand accordingly. Despite the classical factors such as interest rate, inflation rate, commodities, etc… the value of a “community-based currency” comes form  “the community’s tendency of supporting community’s money”.  The community regularly attempts to keep its currency price favorable for inter-community trades. We should accept this assumption, Otherwise community would never have been formed. These mechanisms together provide a concept of “exchange rate as  excellence measurement”.
We can see this measurement -in a very loosely form- already exist in our real world exchange rates. The big difference between “monies of communities” and “fiat currencies” laid in how the currencies are managed. In one side we have currencies, managed by governments and most often in a non democratic way, and the other side the currencies that are powered by people.
The way that current exchange rates work, “exchange rate does not reflect fundamental economic conditions” or at least governments try to uncouple those (through FX intervention), but in our new “community-based arrangement” of world population, the exchange rate reflects both the economic conditions and the political governance of each community.
Reasonably people will demand currency of some communities that they believe in the community’s principals, and refuse or devaluate the currency of other communities. People can be somewhat socialist and a bit capitalist, as well as naturalist and so on. It is our human nature and nothing is one hundred percent right or wrong. So we should pick the best part of each. People are free to create a portfolio of different currencies of different communities and also be a member of some different communities as well. Whenever they feel that a community is no longer following their principles, they simply "leave the community at no cost", unlike the current communities, ideologies, political regimes or countries and territories. They get rid of the community’s money and that’s all. No need to argue, quarrel or fight. No need to war.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Indeed the fact "leave the community at no cost" is a crucial feature. The slavery, exploit, tyranny,  dictatorship and all forms of inequality are the product of the impossibility (or high costly) of free deciding.
“Every time you spend money, you're casting a vote for the kind of world you want.”
      ― Anna Lappé
We buy and sell million times per day. By each transaction we make an impact on the exchange rate (supply and demand rule). These are our votes. We can vote every day million times for what we stand for, whether it’s a new economic policy or a welfare program in a particular society or a cultural movement in another community. This is a kind of instant democracy. We express our opinion and impact on exchange rates immediately. In such a way the corrupted community will lose value of its money and its population very quickly -let alone the fact that this kind of corrupted community can not be formed in first place-.
Arbitrage and all kinds of other schemes of speculation and manipulation are not welcomed, but the communities have to deal with. There will probably be chaos in the beginning, but a stabilization curve will begin soon, and at the end, there will be some stable currencies, that are supported by matured community members. The remaining currencies fluctuate very little (unlike Bitcoin and all other altcoins) and will be used for some real trading and not only speculation. Remember that we are talking about a community that governing their own money and have proper rules in order to expand community members, rise up community reputation and strengthen their money. In this new paradigm not only “competition in monies is good, and there is no problem with private money” but also it is necessary that different group of people – despite the geolocations – can issue their money. Communities will love these contemporaneous friability and stability in community and the money value. What saves one community and its money is the maturity of its population and not force of an authority or military.

Individuals would like to join community (or establish a new community) for various reasons, such as supporting a mindset or some principles, participating in an “open source accelerator project” or just economic incentives.
As mentioned earlier, like-minded people may establish an online community, and set some rules and economic system that they believe in. Obviously they will try to expand community and invite more people to it. Depending on how well the community works -respecting the principles and core values of the community-, individuals may join or leave it. The people are the best judges. They can interact with community at different levels. They can use the money of a community as a "medium of exchange" or as a "store of value" and no more. Or they can involve in community activities and decision making and so on.
There will be people who benefit from exchange rate fluctuations. They may be persuaded to buy that money as well.
In addition, these coins also can be used to pay for network services. That is, community can set some price for services such as domain name registering, weblog/videolog cost, secure messaging, and so on.

Nowadays there are many online communities (AKA social networks like Facebook, Reddit, and million forums) and people are already using this or that community. Some of them have some kind of tokens and they exchange these tokens for each other. But what is special in this idea is decentralization, which means the community (any group of people) can be established and continue to live without any permission. No authority, no central-service or no third party can stop them or censor their voice and contents. The community governs its territory and is absolutely standalone.
They have their community-based money that gains its value from community, and not from authorities (e.g. the company of social network).
In first day the communities money worth absolutely nothing. In long run the value of a community’s money is created by the free choice of community members whom – by the regard of their own interest – judge whether the services community’s money provide is useful to them or not.
If  I believe in my community’s money I expect to buy some good or services from my community’s member. Say ten million coin for one pizza (as it happened before for Bitcoin). It is the zero day for set value of the money of the community. The money’s value come from the exception of future purchasing power. If community acts according to its principles, we expect that the purchasing power of money of community will remain same or increase day by day. Because the community proved its consistency for some principles. This consistency drives more demand for that money from who believes in those principles.
Depends on how the community has introduced itself to the public. The functionality of that particular money is also important. These “money functionalities” act as important factor for the community to impact on real world.
Some communities may prefer to remain in cyberspace and interact like an online community at all. Some other may use this system (including software, and the real people behind the softwares social network) to handle a “collective or cooperative” activity*, or some will use it as a potential infrastructure for a social movement. There are many use cases for this system in real world.

To be continued.
Hu