Topic: RedFlaged / Marked or "Dirty" BTC/USDT (Read 457 times)

or you can do what oeleo refuses to do
RESEARCH

for instance. you find out where binance is registerd to then check that jurisdictions regulations about what the jurisdiction describes as their list of suspicious activities

yep find out what regulators say is a suspicious activity, which then regulated exchanges then follow and comply with

for instance no one uses hundreds of exchanges. so you dont need to research hundreds.
just look at the services you want to use and research what issues you might have when using those services you use.

then you can learn what kind of things services you use, watch out for. to then know how to interact with them or avoid them if they are going to cause you issues

its been over a week, after telling oeleo and his buddies about 20 times in multiple posts in multiple topics what U.S regulators tell VASPS (virtual asset service providers) what to watch out for.. its funny how oeleo pleads ignorance or gets sudden amnesia each time, just so he can play dumb in yet another topic of the same subject

oeleo wants to ignore the advice and YET AGAIN pretend its a secret and unknown

but he did make one step forward. to actually advise to avoid middlemen services

But what if you hire Company A, which think your coins are just fine, but your exchange uses Company B which thinks your coins are tainted because they were withdrawn from a gambling site 5 transactions ago, even though that had nothing to do with you? Or perhaps another exchange uses Company C, which thinks the other exchange that you use is high risk because it is incorporated in the Seychelles. So you withdraw coins from the first exchange using Company B which are perfectly clean as far as they are concerned, deposit them over at the second exchange using Company C, and your account gets locked.

There are dozens of blockchain analysis companies and there are hundreds of exchanges, and all of them have their own definition of taint and their own (unknown and secret) algorithms and protocols for assigning taint to certain coins. The only way you will find out for sure if any specific exchange thinks your coins are tainted is when they lock your account. Better then to just avoid any centralized exchange which has the ability to seize your coins, and trade on DEXs and peer to peer.

It totally impossible for you to be sure the coin you receive in your wallet is from a clean source unless you hire some expert surveillance techniques and blockchain analysis but if you ask this question because of your safety I will advise you don't use p2p trading and if you do change the BTC to privacy coin.

Almost all CEX is working with the authority now and that's why exchanges like Binance lock the wallet that's reported to be associated with scammers, casinos, and crypto tumbler sites. However, there are some crypto exchanges that still have no problem with you receiving coins from casinos though.

aww .. new misdirect tactic from oeleo
now trying to convince that people to not care about taint.. with his new delusion that all coins are already "bad"
(reality is no they are not, not even 1% are considered this. he has been told now in many topics of similar subject this. so he cant play ignorant or pretend he had sudden amnesia)


guess he realised his first game failed
but lets play his new game,.

to pretend rules dont apply and be ignorant..
thinking ignorance of rules by pretending rules are made up will save people..

you cant get away with murder by saying "i didnt know it was a crime i thought that law was made up because some guy on a forum said it was made up"

sorry oeleo
but rules DO exist. and people can be hurt if they dont know the rules.

if a country has a rule thats says "no sex on the beach".. and all the beach police are looking out for people having sex on the beach. where they are trained to watch out for acts like dry humping.. as a suspicious activity

out of all the thousands of people sunbathing. if they see you dry humping.. they will start to watch you. and yes they will keep an eye on all your movements.. and if they look closer to you to get a better look at you and see you are actually having sex on the beach. expect more issues.

your ignorance doesnt amaze me, i have seen your ignorance in most of your posts.

but please stop your vile crappy mindset that will and does cause other people to get into trouble
(beach analogy: you think if you can get all sunbathers to enter into an orgy, or have a fantasy dream that all sunbathers are already having an orgy. then you believe that the rule then doesnt apply or you can dismantle the law).. sorry real world does not work that way..
instead trying to entice random sunbathers to enter into an orgy. gets them in trouble and actually could get you in further trouble for pushing them into joining an orgy

its as if you want people to get into trouble on purpose.. so that you can come back and say 'oh look people got in trouble, i told you this would happen'.. eventhough you would be the main cause of their troubles if they dared follow your crap

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how about you go play on your altnet/mixers where only a small sub1% of users play with each other. and swap value between themselves...
stir your value in your dark swamps with other people that want to swim in dirty swamps.
stop trying to get normal clean users to jump into your swamps in the hopes that you can drown them as you try to claw your way out taking their clean pants as you escape the swamp

not all coins are red flagged
less than 0.25% are red flagged

but using "privacy enhancing tools/networks" will earn you a red flag
yep using mixers, tumblers, LN, monero, liquid will earn you a red flag.

so people SHOULD actually learn what causes a red flag thus chances of being on a SAR report. so that they can learn what to avoid

its not about pretending all bitcoins are red flagged. (oeleo's latest nonsense)
its about know about what services and tools to avoid

Exactly my point. The whole thing is completely arbitrary. Let's say we have some coins which we know were stolen, so we taint them. Some of those coins then move to another wallet. Are they still tainted? How do we know that the coins weren't just spent in a completely legal way, such as buying goods from a merchant? Now we are punishing the merchant for a crime they didn't even know about, let alone have anything to do with. What about after the coins have moved 10 times? What about 100 times? Are they tainted forever, or do we just pluck a random number out of thin air and declare that they are clean again after this many transactions? What about if those tainted coins are combined with some clean coins? Are all the outputs tainted? What if 0.01 tainted BTC is combined with 0.99 clean BTC. Is the full 1 BTC output tainted? Is it 1% tainted? What does that even mean? What about when a centralized exchange accepts those tainted coins? Are they magically scrubbed clean again?

Taint is completely arbitrary made up nonsense. The best option for both the individual and the wider bitcoin ecosystem is to not do business with anyone who forces you to obey their made up rules, since doing so defeats the very point of a decentralized, peer to peer currency.

look at the desperate idiot trying everything he can to try to say that every coin is red flagged already just so that he can try to advertise his mixers (which are red flag triggers) by saying that in his warped mind that coins are already red flagged so everyone needs to use a mixer to clean them

his reality is warped backwards and twisted

he has no clue and just wants to advertise services/middle men that cause bitcoiner more delays, issues. costs, and headaches.

very vile person very vile indeed

There's no way on knowing about that and you're right then, most likely and in general all coins has its source for being tainted. So, in summary, no matter where it comes from, there's a trace of it from being tainted.

I don't have one but with the explanation of oeleo, I guess you'll understand the logic of what most bitcoins are whether they're freshly mined or not.

lets emphasise things
unless an exchange has received a COURT ORDER from a court to confiscate coins and pass onto courts/regulators as temporary guardians of the confiscated coins, which then ends up in the user having to go to court to prove innocence.. .. again until that point. a exchange cannot confiscate your coins

they can however at just the red flag level. limit your use of their service (not allow you access to the exchange order book to buy/sell..) but you still have and legally should have access to view balance and request to withdraw said balance and close account. which should be honoured within a reasonable time.

some exchanges try to implement their own business terms of service to try to suggest that by agreeing to become a user of their exchange you agree to not sue them if they dont allow you to get a withdrawl to close account. where they pretend it forces you into only being able to seek a resolution through THEIR arbitration systems. but if they breach their own rules especially the regulators rules you can still sue them in court.

it actually is worth reading regulations and exchanges own terms and conditions just so you can learn how to operate in a manner to avoid the headaches of regulations and business terms

I predominantly use Bisq and LocalCryptos to trade between fiat, BTC, and XMR. I don't use any other altcoins, but I understand there are various instant exchangers and decentralized exchanges which cater to BTC/altcoin swaps without requiring you to deposit your coins to their platform and therefore no issues regarding taint. There's also RoboSats for Lightning trades, although I haven't used it myself it. Try here for other suggestions: https://kycnot.me/

There are no dirty BTC. There are only dirty businesses trying to play the government's lapdog by scaring people out of their financial freedom and back into the system of centralized control. We will not go back to the old system no matter how hard they try to chip away at the foundations of Bitcoin! They never had any power to put or enforce any kind of regulations on Bitcoin. They are only scamming the gullible by holding their coins hostage until those people agree to do whatever they want. Not your keys, not your coin.

Its time to call out the traitors for what they are. Fakecoiners.

Thats the point of this topic. Just the small fraction of coins that you will receive make all of them taint. And if ill transfer them over to exchange with AML, KYC im afraid what can happened. How to avoid receiving them, how to make sure they are clear before you facilitate the trade. Is btc/usdt -> monero-> new wallet-> btc new wallet -> exchange still work? Does anyone know

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what decentralized exchange are you using for swapping coins if you don't mind to share

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if there is a miners you know I would be happy to work with.it have to be a trusted person otherwise we coming back to the same point - are they really mined? Some sellers straight up buy being - coins are from mixer, some aren't.

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You're correct. but its a time concern. Your funds are locked for who knows how long. Depend on your luck.
if it been locked in 2009 and released in 2022 the I don't mined this scenario

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oh look blackhatcoiner. the guy that screams out fantasy dreams and scary nightmares without doing research

actual fact when customers are just under a watchlist/investigation for suspicious activity an exchange cannot by law confiscate/forfeit your value.

if you done some research you would know this:
if they find you suspicious to a certain level they run an investigation. if it encroaches to a certain threshold, they can limit your access to certain features in their service. but you still have the ability to withdraw your funds and close your account, you just cant do any trading or swaps on the exchange or use other features within the exchange(this is called account suspended)

they can only confiscate(steal) your value if they have raised their concerns to the authorities and the authorities have done an investigation and linked you to a crime that is evidenced enough to prove to a judge that there is enough evidence to file a court order against you.. and only on receipt of the court order can a exchange confiscate funds and pass you onto the courts to defend yourself

of course the easiest way to avoid this headache path if you are a malicious person that raises red flags. is to avoid services like those

Yeah, I mean after you've made an account and deposited money. You can't say "Hey, I changed my mind, give my 'tainted' coins back". They confiscate your property and you either give it up, or give them what they want, that is personal data. They're blackmailing you straight. If they didn't, you could have the option to provide your UTXO on some /taint_check, and see yourself if your money is "tainted", without handing it over to some third party.

Sure they do: Take your business elsewhere. If everyone stopped using Binance today because of arbitrary taint nonsense, you can guarantee they would have found some workaround/loophole by tomorrow.

Except they aren't all freshly mined, they include bitcoin which came from transaction fees from transaction linked to gambling, scams, North Korea, and more! And how do you know the miner which solved that block wasn't powered by coal and therefore contributing to global warming!? Those "freshly mined" coins should be tainted for sure!

Every coin in active circulation is tainted by somebody's made up metrics. The only logical conclusion is to stop using any platform or service which buys in to this made up fantasy.

Ask a miner personally and buy those freshly mined bitcoins.

Other than that, I can't see any other way for you to have those clean bitcoins in the circulation because you'll never know where the origin of it really came from.

As been said by the others, it's likely that most of the coins have been touched by any of those worries you've got.

The worst part of this taint nonsense is that they don't leave you another choice. You either hand them over everything they'll ask, stuff such as personal data, or you're just ripped off; yes, they confiscate your property otherwise.

When you deposit bitcoin to Binance, you should acknowledge this risk, because they ain't gonna warn you. They're deliberately quite on that part.

The correct response to an exchange such as Binance deciding that some bitcoin is somehow "unclean" and not good enough for them is not for you to bend over backwards and completely compromise your own privacy in order to only use coins which Binance deem acceptable; it is to stop using Binance! If other customers of your bank were depositing cash in to their accounts and your bank was then seizing not only that cash but all the money in all their accounts and leaving them financially screwed, would you keep using that bank or would you find another one which didn't do this?

I have traded exclusively peer to peer for the entire time I have used bitcoin. I extensively mix, coinjoin, swap to Monero, and otherwise obfuscate my coins. I have literally never once encountered a problem with taint or dirty coins because I do not use any centralized exchange or service which buys in to such nonsense and perpetuates this attack on the fundamentals of bitcoin.

I haven't either. But I haven't seen any list of banned mixers either and there are already a few that have had problems with the authorities, the latest Crypto Mixer.

Have you ever heard of a hacker wallet being specifically marked as a hacker wallet? If you've really heard of it then avoid accepting payments from those wallets or you'd better not make transactions with them ^{[but it's hard to track them down].} But since we can't tell which coin is called dirty coin, then I can say that it is clean. Every coin you buy on a centralized exchange seems safe from dirty trade lines, exchanges and governments can't catch you or freeze your assets just because of that, but maybe the exchange will freeze your assets if it's actually a deposit from a wallet marked as a hacker's wallet.

You have the option of clearing history transactions from your purchased coins by using a mixer, in this case you can increase your privacy in my opinion. I didn't expect to understand anything wrong.

First, you need to know from which address you will receive the coins. In many cases it's impossible, because your counterparty will refuse to tell you. Second, there's no objective taint. It's about to whom you will send your coins. Some services might not care about history of your coins at all. Others might hire chainanalysis companies or perform their own analysis. Some services don't want to receive coins linked to gambling. And so on. There's lots of possibilities.

Which authorities from which country?

It's usually private organisations that try to sell their list of addresses. I haven't seen an official government approved list of tainted Bitcoin addresses yet.

I completely agree. And I am fully subscribed to Bitcoin's fungibility.

I was just responding to Z-tight's post. That reply of mine wasn't representative of my stand on this specific issue. I don't believe that one Bitcoin is purer than another. There's no single Bitcoin in the 21,000,000 total supply that is more Bitcoin or less Bitcoin than the rest.

While coins directly involved in crimes should be tracked, intercepted, confiscated, or returned to their rightful owners, it doesn't mean that those coins are dirty and aren't acceptable for circulation.

The problem is not so much that certain exchanges believe it or that the community believes it or not, but that the authorities believe it.

I am against the concept of dirty coins, but even these coins are returned to the financial system through auctions where millions of confiscated coins are resold and thus will again become legal and were acquired in legal auctions.
Therefore, the issue of tracking the source of the money is how to prove that you obtained this money in a legal way and from legal sources.

There are no dirty Bitcoins, but there are currently many organisations that want you to believe "taint" exists. It's an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility. Don't believe it, and don't use exchanges that support this. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blacklist-of-unreliable-taint-proclaiming-bitcoin-services-exchanges-5401468

Don't even mention USDT. Dirty USDT is locked USDT, because Tether can freeze your balance at any time.


There ain't no difference between so-called "dirty" coins and normal coins.

It can be argued, that every single coin is going to be tainted by the year 2147 - when the last block reward is mined. Think about that for a second.

Every coin you touch will either have traces of mixers, coinjoins, casinos or ponzi schemes (because scammers dump their coins on exchanges).

So, it is suicide to even worry about the issue of tainting in the first place. In chess we call this "zugzwang" - It's your turn to move, and all your moves are bad.

But since you are not obliged to move your coins, then by all means don't, unless you're trying to pay someone/thing.

LOL! If you are worried that your coins could be flagged as tainted, using mixers is a suicide. That would only make your coin suspicious or even tainted.


I'm afraid you're wrong here. Don't compare cash with Bitcoin. Restaurants, barber shops, grocery stores, hotels, markets, and almost all business establishments don't have mechanisms in tracking whether your money is dirty or not. That's different with a lot of duly licensed or registered crypto companies. Centralized and regulated crypto platforms such as exchanges, payment processors, lending, crypto banks, and so on are normally AML-compliant, which means they have AML bots and tracking software running 24/7 to guard against dirty coins.

The moment your coins are marked dirty, you'll be in trouble. Your coin might be rejected. You might not be allowed to do trading or conversion. You might get banned. Your account could be locked or your funds frozen or even confiscated. Your wallet could be blacklisted. You could be fined. You could even be prosecuted.

You are right about money. Also I would use mixers - but problem is that with all this AML ,exchanges can block your wallet just because it came from mixer and at some point coins been marked. Thats why im looking for who went over this problems and have something to share with all of us.
PS. don't want to try it myself and end up in bad position.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then! Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

Thats the problem. im looking for solution for P2P trades. With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

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Need to eliminate that for P2P. my thoughts so far is:
 - make sure the funds are coming from exchange with KYC
 - move over to Monero and Zcash and conversation to btc. but If im not wrong ZEC has some issues with traceability.
 - other option is to receive small amount of BTC directly on  verified exchange wallet with 0 balance. if it not gets suspended - coins are clean and can be received with no worries. In this case question is - how soon your wallet gets suspended if you receive flagged coins and does it depend on amount (50 cents or over 100$).
 Please add your thoughts.

Decentralization slowly moving towards centralization . But that's another topic.

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the answer is you cant because its kinda impossible to track one by one the transaction. the only one to knowing is from the sender if you receive it from exchange is pretty much safe but if you randomly send by someone else you need to worry

You only have one way, trace the coins came from. But most people can't distinguish between the coins came from mixers and normal transaction, it need a good understanding and learning to know that. What can I say is most mixer are easier to know the pattern, while Chipmixer is harder.

Usually the risk of such dirty coins are came from directly P2P trading without any platform as the third party and mixers. Although not all dirty coins will transferred to mixers, but coins from mixers will flagged as high illicit funds.

As long as you're not doing directly P2P trading, I think you're almost prevent to receive dirty coins.

Hello to everyone. Need some advice from went over this and have solid solutionS.
How to make sure that coins (BTC and/or USDT) are not "dirty" before you receive them on your wallet?Not concidering Coinfirm,Chainalysis,ScoreChain etc.

 As I anderstand they wan't be locked until you send them to crypto-platform with KYC( like binance..). What about cold wallets?