Topic: Regards to Argentinian crisis - why isn't Btc skyrocketing? (Read 5256 times)

maybe they fear losing 10% on one day. On the other hand the argentinian pesos los nearly 20% within 1-2 days against the Euro. But this is only oil and imports, not the bread of the baker...

Their currency is collapsing. So now is a great time to go because your dollah billz be worth a lot.

Look at what a good currency the peso is. Losing value like ship going to the bottom against the Almighty QE-INfinity US debt slave dollar.

North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela don't look so hot either. :-)

It was the dude printed in 100 u$s bills that said: "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Pretty hard to disagree.

Exactly! And i am here in Argentina now, by the way... wish me luck 

Yeah I bought time-shared villas in both and try to spend all of the time in-flight instead

Ukraine is also not a great place to live right now i'd guess.

Have you tried both? 

that is the worst place on earth now to run away to. that and Somalia.

Dont!

What you running from?

What's going on in Argentina? I actually wanted to run away there for a month or two xD

Thankfully the age of "bitcoins being hard to buy" will die in most countries in 2014. Bitcoin vending machines, ATMS, zipzap outlets, the list will get longer and longer. Not every country of course, but most. By end of 2014 it will be as easy to buy bitcoins as beer

This is a great post because it proves that failing world economies are not going to necessarily drive Bitcoin into the billions upon billions.

There are other factors and those factors keep bitcoin price down. While everyone on this forum thinks bitcoin is sitting like a crouched tiger ready to pounce on fiscal collapse it is simply not true.

1) the mechanics of buying bitcoin are simply too difficult. Don't give me all the reasons it is easy. This simple difficulty problem with technology has been 20+ years in the problem solving era. Periodically we have iPhones that come along and tear down the difficulty barriers, but only partially. Bitcoin as technology is inaccessible to 99% of the population.

Think of it this way, training on money happens from the age of 4 when teeth start coming out. You could argue you need no training on money. But getting my non-smartphone, college drop out, mcdonalds working neighbor's kid to ever be in a comfortable situation to buy bitcoin is simply a mountain that this technology currently cannot climb.

Unless bitcoin develops a universally simple delivery mechanism that my grandma on the internet could do after reading one bitcoin article, bitcoin will be a niche investment. Which is why we still need time to develop more technology to support the willing buyers.

2) the penetration of bitcoin owners into society has only just begun. I talk to people EVERY day that have never heard of bitcoin. If I ask someone on the street if the know about bitcoin, some might give me a sideways look like "don't think i am stupid but i really haven't looked into it nor do I care"

not entirely unreasonable, though, when taking a good, hard look at the Argentinian peso.

sure, bitcoin has been really unstable the past few months, tell me more about how +12% (Bitcoin) in the past 30 days is better then -10% in the past 30 days (Argentine Peso)

For your information, the peso has dropped by 10% every month since like, i don't know 2000 or so, at least for 2 years, probably longer

Bitcoin on the other hand, has an average of about +23% a month, and it rarely EVER decreases in value over a 30 day period.

Volitility =/= unsecure

Argentine peso aren't 'volitile' per se, they're on a 'steady' exponential decline. But i'd trade a volatile asset like bitcoin, that is bound to go up in value in the long term over a 'stable' asset that is known to go down in the long term any day.

Because i'm not in for the short time, i'm in for the long term.


Also, while USD may not be AS bad as the peso (at least not right now) it's still pretty bad.

lol

The centralized currency they already have stands a much greater chance of being worthless than Bitcoin; particularly in the short term. I think your opinion is greatly influenced by your own emotion.

The BTC price is volatile for sure, but it's been volatile in an upward fashion.

Nobody can claim to know the future of Bitcoin and we obviously disagree. I believe if the US was interested in shutting down BTC they would have taken that position after the Silk Road at the Senate hearing... I don't see that changing now.

OP is a troll. Only a troll would expect a country in a financial crisis to invest the little money they have left into something as unsecure, unstable, unreliable and volatile as bitcoin. Bitcoin = death sentence for them. You really think they are going to buy digital codes which could be worth $0.01 tomorrow, instead of bread, or milk for their children?

OMG, that is so sad.

BTC is not skyrocketing because ordinary Argentinians have no use for them. Argentinians use US Dollar as inflation hedge, store of value and de facto currency for all but smallest transactions since the default/depression of 2000.
Those who have pesos are trying to buy liquid and "safe" USD's or other hard/liquid assets, BTC being impractical/irrelevant to their daily survival routine.

What is the btc-ars exchange anyways? Localbitcoins is implying the prices are actually pretty high.

You are right.  I was selling to the same guy I dealt with in person down in Argentina.  I trust the guy. 
Dealing with someone you haven't met would be unwise, unless you go through escrow.

Zip zap has an office in Buenos Aires.  Wonder what effect that will have.

PayPal is too risky because of chargebacks.

This^+1

I see comments on this thread which don't have much connection to reality.   I've been to Argentina a couple of times and traveled around the country a little, and recently I attended the bitcoin conference in Buenos Aires.  I've exchanged dollars for pesos at "blue" market cuevas in Mendoza and BA, and I've sold bitcoin in Argentina face-to-face.  After I returned to the US, I sent some bitcoin to an Argy friend and he paid me through paypal.  By the way, this is a good way to get btc to people in Argentina.
A theme I notice in this thread is that the Argentinians are somehow self-destructively passing up an obvious opportunity to escape financial disaster.  But think:  how many Argentinians have ever heard about bitcoin, let alone have a clue about it?  I've met people here in the States who never heard the word "bitcoin" until I said it to them.  As for myself, I first noticed news items about bitcoin several years ago, but I never thought much of it.  Because really, why would I?  Why would anyone?  Someone can read a news item about bitcoin or hear it mentioned by a friend, but that doesn't mean they will understand it.  It was not until about eight months ago that I started to see the power of bitcoin.  And I am pretty well informed, I keep up with current events, I have an engineering degree, but it took me a long time to see.  Keep that in mind when you feel like blaming people for not understanding about bitcoin.  Everybody isn't a computer nerd.
If you are immersed in the culture of cryptocurrency, it's possible to develop a parochial mindset.  You may see what others don't, but at the same time you are wearing blinders.

True - but  all of this takes time to organize and do - I hope some are doing it as we speak.

If they want bitcoin they can get it.

Even if they have a hard time wiring money they can pool small communities and hire a broker who has access to exchanges. They can get it if they want it; it's not like nobody's allowed outside of the country.

ye, like their government would allow bitcoin ATMs.

if i was living there i'd either A) Move (if i had the money and opportunity) or B) get as much bitcoin as i can, no matter what the price is. and no matter how hard it is to get them.

if there's a will, there's a way.

Because there aren't any bitcoin vending / ATM machines in Argentina - that would have solved it

Honestly, I don't know. The currency controls are severe, its not easy getting hold of bitcoins quickly if you can't wire money. People in countries with no restrictions complain about difficult it can be to "get started" getting bitcoins, imagine how hard it is in a country that won't let you wire money out.

Is there any evidence that it was actually Cypriots that bought loads of coins during their crisis? Or it was it just "another banking collapse" that encouraged bitcoiners round the world to purchase more coins?

Exactly, why aren't we seeing more bitcoin in Argentina? Even if bitcoin is volatile, are you afraid it will be worse then the peso?

Then why aren't they offering to trade for bitcoin? I would be. I'd sell everything I could to buy it. I'd offer to trade anything I owned. I'd be offering any services or labor that people would be willing to pay bitcoin for. That's the whole damn point. It's difficult as hell, but it's not an impossible situation. The Cypriots were in a tough spot themselves. They did what they had to do. These are modern people. They have computers and cell phones. Net Access. The solution is right in front of them.

I find that so condescending. You think Argentinians aren't living this crisis 24/7? Watching their savings disappear and country fall apart. Get real. They are as intelligent as anyone else. Just stuck in a near impossible situation.

If Argentinians don't see the value of Bitcoin, then the only way to help them is to teach them the value of bitcoin. If they don't learn, they are in for a very hard time. If they do learn, they will trade whatever they have for them. If you want something bad enough, you do whatever you have to do to get it. The poor trade their labor. the rich trade their assets. Many of us here would love to travel to that beautiful country if we could get a favorable exchange rate. And we mostly don't care if the exchange is legal or not. It would be win-win.

I don't think the Argentinians realize how bad off a situation they are in. There will be outright starvation at the margins unless some miracle happens. Think Venezuela without the oil revenues. Zimbabwe. Germany between the world wars. In Argentina under the present regime, wealth isn't just being stolen. It's being destroyed. The bitcoiners here would love to help convert some of that wealth to bitcoin, which is the best and possibly only way for them to keep it.

The majority of people in a lot of countries are "poor". Doesn't mean the country doesn't have great wealth, in the middle and upper classes. There must be a % of these people that would like to protect their ever-decreasing wealth .... it seems that bitcoin awareness is very low in South America at the moment.

My take is that BTC will find its way into Argentina via the "blue" or "unofficial" market as foreign visitors to Argentina will find it attractive to exchange small amounts of BTC for Argentine pesos in order to get the superior "unofficial" rate on their expenses while in Argentina. It is far easier to smuggle BTC into Argentina than USD or EUR. One of the characteristics of exchange controls is that foreign visitors are forced to sell the hard currency at the unfavourable official rate.

Would it be possible to send physical cash through the mail without getting confiscated?  I assume the pesos are denominated into physical bills.  Maybe they could send a get well soon card with physical cash inside the card to someone with access to a currency exchange in another country.  I know this would be risky but so is leaving money in the bank.  They could use a bitcoin escrow service to reduce risk.

Article on the subject:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25877391

My favorite quote:
"Mr Capitanich said the government would reduce the tax rate on dollar purchases to 20% from the current 35%."

lol.

Argentininan goverment is re-opening foreign currency exchange, with many restrictions, but still they are re-opening.

I don't think the enemy is more the goverment than it is the banks. Users need to realize they are being f*cked.

surely you can buy a couple of magic cards and buy a stamp and an envelope to send them to some other country? It will just get you a small amount of bitcoin, but everything is better then seeing what small amount of money you have at the bank become worth even less every month.

I heard the inflation rate is about 10% per month, so let's say you have $100 worth of pesos at your bank, the next month you'll have $90, in two months you have $81,  in 3 months you have $72.90, in 6 months you have $53.14 and in a year you'll have about $28.24

It's much smarter to invest that $100 in bitcoin, and in a year you'll more likely have $1000 (and even if the bitcoin price does not increase, you'll still gain money, simply by not losing money)

that's not a problem, bitcoin can be send anonymously, as long as you can send stuff of value (even if it's just something simple as MtG cards (or unopened packs) or something) and leave a bitcoin address, you can easily get bitcoin into Argentina. You can then use these bitcoins in your country instead of the worthless paper known as pesos, and you'll never have to worry about inflation again.

Most Argentinians are poor from what I've seen the few time times I've been there. If you don't have any money to begin with, how you gonna buy bitcoin? If Bitcoin had come along say ten, twelve years ago then yeah, maybe. Now not so much.

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.  Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


:-)

Seriously, services from people in Argentina or things that can be sold to others - Wine for one thing - are great things to sell for bitcoin.

Absolutely, I'm only suggesting that he lead ten horses to water in hopes that one will drink.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

That's the beauty of Bitcoin.  You can ship me Magic Cards, and I can pay you in Bitcoin over the internet for them, and there is no way for the government to prevent me from paying you.

Sounds like you need to hire some smugglers...

The majority might be like this but you can still help the minority; however small.

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a night, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime."

If you teach one person about Bitcoin that wasn't aware before, you've made a major impact on the direction of their life.

We can ship stuff, but we can not receive anything. -

i know what you mean by this, i've seen it too many times.

It's pretty simple: can you think of anything that Argentinians might have that you know that
1. Has a pretty solid trade value, either on eBay or somewhere else
2. Isn't gold, silver or anything else that is obviously going to be confiscated at the border?

In all likelihood, the things we think of will be oddities that we only really know about because of our personal interests: that's why I know about Magic Cards for example.  These are the things that will be easier to get through customs, and because of their trade value they actually have a worth for someone to pay BTC for, even if they don't know the ins and outs of the item itself.

I agree with this, but there's a point where everybody has to help themselves. Once the idea is spread that's all you can do.
 
If people aren't willing to help themselves then it's up to natural selection to kill them off... Nobody else will come to save you.

There's plenty of ways out of a country; I bet drug dealers do it all the time.

it would actually be benificial for him to help and share his knowledge, what good is bitcoin when you're pretty much the only one in the country who has them?

How can i help you ?

They can not be helped anymore.-

I made this thread for exactly this problem: how can we as a community actually get btc into Argentina?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-bitcoins-to-argentina-427605

Seriously, this is the situation that Bitcoin was created for, so if you have any ideas, let them fly!

why won't you help your countrymen

Could be, did you try Nutcoin ?  www.nutcoin.com

Argentenians are v submissive to their government which is why they continue to allow what is happening to them right now. Secondly Argentenian purchasing power is weak.

If I were there, I'd probably be mining Dogecoin. And maybe exchanging it for BTC. Or not...

Pls Add Bananas/BTC 

With the currency controls it makes it impossible to get money on the exchanges.  If they offered services to people outside of Argentina (writing, coding, design (logo for example)) and were getting paid in bitcoin, they'd have a good shot at protecting themselves.  The problem is that the vast majority of people everywhere are in those businesses so it makes it difficult.  Perhaps they could sell wine to people overseas or some other product too, but again that is limited.  It sucks.

The time to protect yourself is before the currency controls begin because after they begin it is likely too late. 

:-)

That's a lovely view of your fellow country men and women 

I have my tricks but most people here in Argentina has no idea about anything. 

I have been thinking about ways to sell bitcoins to Argentinians but i don't want to be stuck with useless toilet paper. And it seems nearly impossible to get rid of these pesos.

If Argentinians have even half a brain they'd buy bitcoin like their life depended on it, and they probably want to, but can't.

you are probably right.. I assume a lot of people are working on projects solving this as we speak....

You can´t take money out of Argentina, that´s why the can´t buy bitcoins basically.

The goverment is totally corrupt and inneficient and has no ideas, so the need to restrict practically all international transfers to keep the las dollars that central bank has

I doubt the majority of the Argentinian people have any practical way to purchase bitcoins. Though it would be interesting to see some stats, whether bitcoin is trending in that country, or number of wallets being downloaded.

If you were in Argentina and had some bitcoin you'd have to be pretty insane or desperate to sell it to anyone else there for the foreseeable future.

It'll also be very hard to get money to an exchange outside of the country. You'd probably need people abroad to help out.

The Argentine Bitcoin community is in its infancy. The community is not big... yet.

I have no doubt they will be enthusiastic Bitcoiners, but there is still some basic infrastructure to get in place.

My guess is that they will become a force to be reckoned with around the middle of this year.

The numbers and the supply/demand speaks for itself. Why don't you go and ask the Argentenians why they aren't buying massive amounts of btc - not us - we don't know.

Why haven't latest development in Argentina reflected btc price.. I don't get it specially when the community seem to be big there ?!