Topic: "Religion is always in the control business..." (Read 4139 times)

Hehe   exactly, just like affiliate system... but you dont get any payout just "faith" lol
Its a full-fledged business. Gods were aliens.

isn't religion, for the most part, just a tax-free business? the way scientology, mormonism, the vatican, and many other religions and religious institutions work is by convincing you to subscribe, and then you have to tithe a certain amount.. which is non-taxed, and used to "spread the word" to even more people.

We are in hell and to burn in eternal hell fire is to reincarnate indefinitely on earth like planets.

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Intentional or accidental, hell has become an extended metaphor. It's merely the lack of Heaven, not some eternal fire bullshit.

The idea is that if you truly love God, not being in Heaven with him would be comparable to "a lake of fire".

I'd never thought about "Born again" like that before.  

I've long known that all these systems of control basically work the same way.  That you want to make people feel helpless, childlike so that they need the leader/s.   They all do the same thing from governments to religions to cults to controlling parents.  Try to keep you in a childlike state.  It's why there are so many childlike adults around today and we have the nanny government.   And why the levels of insecurity amongst people are so high these days.  It's how we are being trained.  And also, why we are in more danger from our govts than ever.  So much power vested in them just waiting for the wrong person or wrong set of circumstances to come along...

But yeah, born again... that is so true what he says.

That's awesome that a priest is finally saying it, this has been my belief about many so called 'ideologies' over the years that I've seen, they all either use fear or violence to keep people in control or a mixture of both, when people question things too much that's when they get ridiculed and attacked, they also have no problem doing this to children because they know if they do it at a young age. The only worthwhile sort of ideologies I've found are science and Anarchism, science because it's all about the pursuit of the truth and Anarchism because it's all about thinking for yourself and being independent of any central authority or master.

The great thing is if you question the followers of these ideologies even with basic things because they don't know any of the reasoning behind it they usually resort to threatening you or trash talking etc.

You can also say that isn't the big bang theory.  Your claims of miracles are lies.  They are simply reinterpretations chosen to match science.  At least you aren't trying to say the Quran says that the earth is Ostrich egg shaped.

I don't think the Quran needs to be updated.  It needs to be seen for what it is.  Keep it and it's interpretations intact; embryos being blood clots and all.

People have natural cravings for religion about as much as they do for art. It's sad to see leaders abusing this by forcibly displaying themselves as god-like entities

I should make clear that I do not mean this is always true, or even necessarily what happens for the majority. But, you must admit, it does happen and is a problem with faith.

There are many people in the world who do not benefit from their belief in god. This belief allows them to be easier manipulated by cynical leaders. Further, how do you know for certain that noone has subtly altered the words of the Quran 1000 years ago and destroyed evidence of other versions? Also, while "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" may refer to the same phenomenon that we today observe as redshifted galaxies... it is not useful information without the science. By useful I mean you can not use it to predict causes and effects. It is more likely that your mind is finding a pattern that reinforces your preconceived beliefs.

Speaking of religion and social control:

Jesus Escapes Fat Dominatrix Thanks to Bluetooth Earpiece
http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/jesus-escapes-fat-dominatrix-thanks-bluetooth-earpiece-130764

No, it doesn't. Science attempts to achieve intersubjective reliability methodically using resources like evidence, the experimental method, and replicatable results. Religion simply insists that it is there by assertion, it's no wonder so many of these monkeys are stuck in the Bronze Age whereas scientific knowledge improves every day. Now, pass that slab of pork, it's time for the sacraments 

It works both ways. Many people started looking at science from religious-like point of view after Ray Kurzweil's predictions of eternal life through genetic manipulation and uploaded consciousness. That doesn't make science a bad thing.

Claiming to have an "inside line" with a supernatural world is the world's oldest confidence scheme. Such silly games are for silly children to play with each other.

Is it any wonder why some religions talk so much about heaven and hell?  Is it to convert the unbeliever?  No, I know for a fact that the threats of the Christian and Islamic hell don't cause me any loss of sleep.  Nor does the promise of their heavens.  Hence, it is to control the believers lest they should get a desire to doubt and perhaps risk the consequences.

All religion is beautiful, as long as we don't try to replace progress with magic

Which version of the Quran? The copies that were interred in the walls of mosques hundreds of years ago are at variance with the stuff that is passed around these days. What to do, what to do?

It's really much better just to outgrow all this sunstroked Semitic nonsense, why go through life as a superstitious child?

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

It almost seems easier to me to rely on my own reasoning and interpretation of evidence than to tie myself down to what has been written in the past by authors who do not know the details of the world I live in. For example, the organ transplant issue. I had never thought of it as similar to cannibalism, but I can see the similarity. How do you see it? I imagine something like: "In the past, noone had conceived of organ transplants, so the wording of the laws did not account for the possibility."

Out of curiosity, does Islam prohibit consumption of human flesh in times of starvation?

If all animals go extinct besides swine and humans, the law still allows for consumption of pork to "meat" (haha) nutritional needs. It seems less like a law and more like a recommendation.

Indeed. I had some clams for dinner. I don't wanna be stoned to death by my neighbors.

I was just saying that modern science found evidence that those prohibitions made sense 2000 years ago. Obviously none of them makes sense today. 

1) Right, so now that we think we understand the spirit of the god given law it should be updated to account for modern technology. People back then were not ready to hear about "bacteria".

2) As would not eating "split hoofed animals" if they happened to be around. What at first seems like a waste may be better for a society or individual for unexpected reasons.

1) Yes, modern science can help us get vitamin B12 artificially. But 2000 years ago it wasn't possible. So instead of saying "you guys need vitamin B12 to survive", God said "go eat these animals on my approved list".

2) Drinking milk but not eating the cows would be a waste. Eating eggs but not the hens would be a waste. 

I was responding to his first sentence. He also didn't mention fruits...

Technically none of those are vegetables.

1) Science now allows us to avoid the need for ruminants via direct cultivation of vitamin B12 from bacteria, or synthesize it directly (probably more expensive)

2) Milk and eggs

No, they are arguments for eatings ruminants. Science already showed that humans can't survive on vegetables alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12).

I believe that if there is a god there must be a reason to his laws. Is this not what Muslims believe?

These are basically the arguments for vegetarianism.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrictions_on_the_consumption_of_pork

why?

God is dead. The new mythology revolves around the state.

They’re Made Out of Meat
From the collection:
Bears Discover Fire and Other Stories
by Terry Bisson

"They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

“Meat. They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”

“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”

“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”

“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”

“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”

“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”

“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”

“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”

“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”

“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”

“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”

“No brain?”

“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”

“So . . . what does the thinking?”

“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”

“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”

“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”

“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”

“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”

“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”

“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”

“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”

“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there? Anybody home?’ That sort of thing.”

“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”

“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”

“I thought you just told me they used radio.”

“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”

“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”

“Officially or unofficially?”

“Both.”

“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”

“I was hoping you would say that.”

“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”

“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”

“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”

“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”

“That’s it.”

“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”

“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”

“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”

“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”

“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”

“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen-core cluster intelligence in a class-nine star in G445 zone was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”

“They always come around.”

“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone . . . ”

But isn't that in the Quran (you said Christians shouldn't eat pork either)?  Also, that looks like it prohibits all meat: "prohibited to you are dead animals."

Why is pork prohibited though?

At this point in history, the Semitic religions are a curse on humanity. They continue by the ritual abuse of children whose natural susceptibility to supernaturalism is exploited, filling the world with far too many permanently damaged adult children and their invisible friends.

To pick and choose from any of this sick vein of sunstroked Bronze Age nonsense is to miss the bigger picture wherein you are being played for a sucker as means of social control.

I believe that you can cherry pick in islam, I have seen it.

Hehe, I recently had a long discussion with some other atheist about why you can't blame religion for stuff. Please don't waste your time with pro/anti-religion discussions. It will just cause misunderstanding and hatred instead of getting actually getting things done. You can tell anyone, no matter whether believer or not about why something is the right thing right now, regardless of hell or god. If you are an atheist (or agnostic or something like that) you can usually even say why it's right from a religious point of view or just argument that god gave you a brain to think. At least these things worked out quite well for me. And if you are talking to someone who doesn't care about anything why waste your time and energy? It's the same for believers. Better argue about doing the right thing instead of using god as an argument. After all that's what it's all about.

I like that guy's point of view. It's very tolerant.

The isn't much evidence for hell in the Bible or Quran, especially in the original translations


Yes, it is more of a concept used for control, always has been and always will be.

God 2.0 (New Age) + Chick Tract's anti-religion stance = Christianity 2.0?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LkaH3hEmV3M

From a priest:

"I don't think hell exists... It's part of a control tactic..."

"The church doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being 'born again': When you are born-again, you are still a child. People don't need to be born-again. They need to grow-up; they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world."

I haven't heard more truth from a title that usually evokes lies.