"Remove Mentions Of Low Fees And Instant Transactions" from Bitcoin.org

simonbtc

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 24, 2015, 10:05:36 AM

Quote from: Mellnik on July 24, 2015, 01:09:06 AM

Please fuck off with your bullshit.

He is right, some developers want BTC to become some sort of elitist piece of shit where fees may become more and more expensive to the point it's used only by people buying millions. This would be a catastrophe and those devs seem to not care.

@AtheistAKASaneBrain Partially :-) I'm not advocating for this change, just trying to let you guys know what is happening.

Quote from: pooya87 on July 24, 2015, 05:41:06 AM

honestly i don't see anything that needs changing. you are saying that the "fee market will likely develop" but there is no change in the fee market! it has been as it was before.

@pooya87 @AtheistAKASaneBrain Some Bitcoin Core developers want to keep the block size at 1MB to encourage a fee market to develop, and ultimately have Bitcoin become a settlement system where the majority of transactions occur off-chain on payment hubs and sidechains. In such a situations, any attempt to send a free or low-fee transaction on the public blockchain will likely be discarded or face significant delays. Thus some developers feel it is wrong to continue to promise free and fast transactions:

Quote

Some people have called the prospect of limited block space and the
development of a fee market a change in policy compared to the past. I
respectfully disagree with that.

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009515.html

If the user expectation is that a price would never arise because
supply is going to be increased ad infinitum and they will always be
able to send fast in-chain bitcoin transactions for free, just like
breath air (an abundant resource) for free, then we should change that
expectation as soon as possible.

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009564.html

Other developers believe the block size should be raised to increase the capacity of the system and help keep fees to a minimum, which is more in line with the original vision of Bitcoin as a fast P2P cash system without intermediaries.

Quote

For the entirety of bitcoin's history, absent long blocks and traffic
bursts, fee pressure has been largely absent.

Moving to a new economic policy where fee pressure is consistently present
is radically different from what users, markets, and software have
experienced and *lived.*

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009519.html

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: Mellnik on July 24, 2015, 01:09:06 AM

Please fuck off with your bullshit.

He is right, some developers want BTC to become some sort of elitist piece of shit where fees may become more and more expensive to the point it's used only by people buying millions. This would be a catastrophe and those devs seem to not care.

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

Bitcoin transactions are still instant, confirmation times aren't. Also, I'll ask you a question: where can you find a money transfer service that offers you to pay for less than a dollar to get your transaction in place and be sent to a place that is thousands of miles away from your location? I think there is none.

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

This thread is a perfect example of why you can no longer have a reasonable debate on this troll circus of a forum. The only thing left to do here is give out bullshit troll answers to everything to help it become the most fucked up site on the Web.

Why is it they can debate this on Git but it's not possible here?

Because anytime someone says something this collection of high school cheerleaders doesn't like they immediately start name calling like a preteen girl instead of providing reasonable arguments against the idea or accepting that change might be a good thing.

Finchy

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Quote from: unamis76 on July 24, 2015, 05:31:14 AM

I ended up not even reading the comments on the pull. I don't think this is relevant. What's on the website is still true as of now. Bitcoin offers instant transactions with almost no fee, I don't see how that has changed recently.

Agreed. Unless it changes then I'm fine with bitcoin being labeled instant (which it is) and low fees (which it also is (and these are two of the biggest benefits of bitcoin)). The fees will likely increase as time goes on but even then I still think they will be minute in comparison with things such as paypal and international bank transfers.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Then how about "Lowest fees and Fastest transactions".

ridery99

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Bitcoin is perfect and nothing can stop it. Moderator delete this topic.

spazzdla

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Transactions are still instant, confermations are not.

pooya87

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Quote from: simonbtc on July 24, 2015, 12:37:34 AM

Some developers no longer want to imply that Bitcoin offers cheap and fast transactions since a fee market will likely develop:

Quote

The current site text makes repeated mention of Bitcoin providing low transaction fees and instant transactions, as well as strongly implying that any transaction paying a fee or having medium priority will be confirmed in the next block.

As instant transactions can be unsafe and the other things are less likely to be true in as available block space becomes fully utilized, this pull removes or clarifies those sections.

Link with screenshots of proposed changes: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/pull/972

honestly i don't see anything that needs changing. you are saying that the "fee market will likely develop" but there is no change in the fee market! it has been as it was before.
the only thing that has changed was for period of time a series of spams were introduced to the network which messed up the normal way of things a little bit.

and the quote is 100% right and don't need changing. bitcoin is still a fast transaction (in seconds) and confirmed fast too (matter of minutes) also it has the lowest fees so far and you can send free transactions too.

unamis76

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I ended up not even reading the comments on the pull. I don't think this is relevant. What's on the website is still true as of now. Bitcoin offers instant transactions with almost no fee, I don't see how that has changed recently.

turvarya

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Quote from: jdebunt on July 24, 2015, 02:43:26 AM

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it's not the right one in someone else's eyes.

The typical "f*ck off with your bullsh*t" comments indicate the average level of maturity on these forums as of late.

And everyone is entitled to tell them, to fuck off with their bullshit.
There are so many people throwing around their bullshit opinions, mainly because they don't understand fundamentals of Bitcoin.
So, if a complete newb is again opening a topic, that was already discussed to death on this forum, I think, it is legit to tell him, to fuck off. Expecially, since a lot of newb-accounts are just sockpuppets of know bullshiters.
And this is coming from a pretty calm person, who usually doesn't use such strong language, but there is even a limit for me.

eid

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Quote from: Dire on July 24, 2015, 02:18:02 AM

Quote from: simonbtc on July 24, 2015, 01:41:16 AM

Er, don't shoot the messenger.

You can't be serious.

Here is a summary of what you wish to be changed.....

The OP hasn't expressed his opinion either way, hence his request that you don't shoot the messenger. I'm puzzled why you think otherwise?

jdebunt

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Everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it's not the right one in someone else's eyes.

The typical "f*ck off with your bullsh*t" comments indicate the average level of maturity on these forums as of late.

Dire

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Crypto-Games.net: DICE and SLOT

Quote from: simonbtc on July 24, 2015, 01:41:16 AM

Er, don't shoot the messenger.

You can't be serious.

Here is a summary of what you wish to be changed as you believe the statements to be untrue (from your highlighted section of the bitcoin.org site):

'Instant peer to peer transactions'

Bitcoin has instant peer to peer transactions. That's what it does. Confirmation frequently takes a matter of seconds. If you want true 'instant', then I suggest you invent the quantum computer that will also be able to anticipate your desire to send money before you yourself even know it.

'Worldwide payments'

Do I really need to argue this point? I sent some coin ten thousand odd miles just yesterday.

'Zero or low processing fees'

It has (if you choose for it to be so) and it does... although the figure in your head might be different, but I think everyone is well aware that was in meant is 'in comparison to banks/paypal/credit cards' etc.

coinpr0n

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LOL that pull request shouldn't be taken seriously and yet it is being (going by the discussions on that page). I would maybe change some wording on the site too but the PR just hacks huge chunks and replaces them with nothing. Anyway, I sent a FREE transaction just yesterday - albeit by accident - and it went through.

simonbtc

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Er, don't shoot the messenger.

Dire

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Crypto-Games.net: DICE and SLOT

Quote from: Mellnik on July 24, 2015, 01:09:06 AM

Please fuck off with your bullshit.

After having just read the aforementioned alleged bullshit from the link provided, I must concur and agree - uncharacteristically for me - with your request that the OP fucks off with his bullshit.

Mellnik

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Please fuck off with your bullshit.

simonbtc

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Some developers no longer want to imply that Bitcoin offers cheap and fast transactions since a fee market will likely develop:

Quote

The current site text makes repeated mention of Bitcoin providing low transaction fees and instant transactions, as well as strongly implying that any transaction paying a fee or having medium priority will be confirmed in the next block.

As instant transactions can be unsafe and the other things are less likely to be true in as available block space becomes fully utilized, this pull removes or clarifies those sections.

Link with screenshots of proposed changes: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/pull/972

Topic: "Remove Mentions Of Low Fees And Instant Transactions" from Bitcoin.org (Read 764 times)