Topic: removing small deposits from your wallet (Read 4874 times)

Here is how I was able to remove all but 5 Satoshis from my wallet using the standard client.

I had a wallet with 0.0005 bitcoins that I could not spend because the required fee to spend it all was more than the balance.

I added 230 btc to the wallet 5 days ago. I was prepared to leave these in the wallet for a long as necessary to allow me to spend it all.  But my wife watches the bitcoin prices ($42 at the moment) and she insist that I sell most of my coins now.

I subtract 0.0125 from my balance and send it to another wallet. TX 63ffefdf348ff68bced90e3cda45c1e6115e71c44ad3f8d3adfd4270f37077ac
Then I do an iterative process of trying to send all my coins.

balance = 0.0125, send 0.0125 -->balance too high after fee. Can't send
send 0.00000001 --> 0.0005 fee needed, resulting balance  = 0.01249999, too much left don't send.
send 0.0005 --> 0.012 fee needed, resulting balance = 0.0.  Sounds good but client says it isn't enough!  Possible bug?
send 0.00049 --> 0.012 fee needed, resulting balance = 0.00001. Better. Don't send.
send 0.000499 --> 0.012 fee needed, resulting balance = 0.000001. Even better.
Keep repeating untill: send 0.00049995, resulting balance = 0.00000005.  This is the best I can do.  Hit send TX 3c51d3f8965d0bee5b647c9f3f2d8b4d85d7593fd70156af7f516e1c0982f04f

End result: I have a wallet with 5 satoshis.  It cost me 0.0235001 bitcoins ($0.99) to create.

I will never gamble again.

You don't want to receive payments less than .0005 in general, but you might find payments as low as .00010001 useful.  

A hard fork will help the figure be even smaller but there is talk about lowering it before any hard fork happens.  

There is an option of waiting, maybe with time these transactions will be more valuable and the fee will be lower.  That will make spending these transactions more valuable/possible.  

Depends on what you are asking.

SatoshiDice sends 0.00000001 BTC transactions all the time, but I think they pay a 0.001 BTC fee to do so.

If you want the Bitcoin-Qt wallet to let you try to send the transaction without a fee (note: miners still may not confirm it for you), the transaction has to meet three conditions:

• All outputs must be larger than 0.01 BTC.
• The size of the transaction must be less than 10,000 bytes.
• The priority of the transaction must be higher than 57,600,000 (works out to about 1 BTC day)

As seen here:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

It is dynamic problem. Currently smallest possible transaction is very low, because feeless transactions are allowed to block chain. However the fees will rise as bitcoin becomes more popular, so will the smallest usable transaction.

I don't think that is an urgent problem at all to bitcoin. And I don't recommend trying to solve the problem by arguing on the internet forums, or spamming the developers. There are lots of alternative cryptocurrencies, it is best to try developing those if you are interested in microtransactions. Bitcoin itself doesn't need to be usable for those IMHO, at least urgently.

So what is the smallest usable transaction that is possible with bitcoin?

Can this figure be made smaller or is that a hard fork problem?

Bitcoin doesn't work with microtransactions, deal with it. Essentially low enough transactions have negative value, because it costs more to use them than they have value. Or maybe now you will get some transactions done for free, but soon that won't be the case any more. So the "free bitcoins" site are actually "free spam" sites - great concept!

Of course you can leave them to your wallet and try to use them slowly alongside regular transactions.

ignore - good luck.

WELL all is can say is whatever you think you know you are WRONG
I've been work on this problem that you say is NOT there for 2 days now
and regardless of what you contend I have been charged 1 BTC to transfer 1 BTC to MtGox
with bitcoin-Qt.  I still have .2BTC bit coin-QT does not want to know about

you have provide NO real help - you continue to comment with No real help
I'm sorry I let you aggravate me into a Shouting fest
yes I wanted help - too bad you have NOT provided any

Sorry, I though you wanted help.  I hadn't realized that you were just a troll looking to shout at and insult people.  I assure you I am not clueless.  I understand exactly what your problem is and how to resolve it.  If you want to find someone who is clueless, you may want to try looking in another direction.  I'll tell you what, edit your post and remove your insult and I'll continue to help you.  Leave your post the way it is and you are going on ignore and I'll leave you to cry in your spilled milk for as long as you like.


This is not true.  Please don't confuse the Newbies with lies such as this.


Then why exactly did you say, "fees per kb are based on $50or$10/btc prices NOT $45./btc"?

That depends on how many pieces they are and how small they are.  The fee is 0.0005 per KB.  There is no such thing as a 1 BTC fee requirement.  Once again you are lying and confusing newbies.  I think that the largest required fee that you can encounter is 0.1 BTC.

yo clueless

bitcoin-qt WILL NOT transfer micro bits for any FEE
I DON'T care when the rates were set
1 bitcoin to get 1 bit coin of micro peices to sale is "WAT TOO HIGH"

This may take care of your rawxfer problem.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yet-another-coin-control-release-closed-144331

To prevent spam, the protocol of anyone running the reference code (or anything that matches the behavior of the reference code) refuses to relay low priority transactions (and many miners won't include them in a block) without a minimum fee.  Most of the wallets don't have "coin control", or the ability to choose which inputs to use in a transaction, so it is difficult to consolidate small inputs into a single larger input before they become overwhelming.


I suppose it depends on what you mean by "transfer", but generally no.  That is the problem he is having is that he can't send them without a significant fee.


The plan is to increase the minimum fee as the exchange value of bitcoins increases.  It was last changed in June 2011 when the exchange value had climbed from $10 to over $30.  I suspect it will need to get up near $300 per BTC before the fee gets changed again.

What sort of problem?  As long as you include an adequate fee, it doesn't seem to have any problem at all.


The fees per kb were chosen in June 2011.  At that time the value of 1 BTC had very rapidly risen from $10 to over $30 as seen on this chart bitcoin:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg60zczsg2011-06-01zeg2011-06-09ztgSzm1g10zm2g25

I see this a 2 fold problem
1.  bitcoin-qt has a problem handling micro payments
2.  the fees per kb are based on $50or$10/btc prices NOT $45./btc and even then we WAY high

just a quick question which probably isn't going to help the OP directly.  

Is this problem due to the wallet design or is it due to the way that the block is designed?

Would it be possible to transfer them all to one new wallet without paying a fee?

The reason I'm asking is that while these micro payments are a pain now, if the value keeps going up as expected, these tiny payments are going to be worth something and could well become the usual value people have in their wallets - unless the wallets can't handle such small values - best find a solution now before it becomes a major issue!

as I said earlier raw xfer is the way

can anyone just point me to he rawxfer app

RESTATING the obvious is another very helpfull comment   
NOT !!!

I know what caused the problem SOWHAT

this thread is about how to correct it

Your scrounging for tons of "free coin" sites are basically the same as satoshi dice dust spam and is the reason you've having these problems.

You're effectively picking up pennies from the ground for years and then plunking down a big bucket of loose change and wondering why it's difficult to spend your money.

Your choices are limited and all of them will probably require paying a significant transaction fee to consolidate your dust. Or you could just print out your wallet keys and put it in a safe place for another time and create a whole new wallet.

As has already been pointed out, there are only 2 financially reasonable ways combine all that dust into a single output:

You can either learn how to create raw transactions, send a single large value transaction to the wallet, and then use raw transactions to repeatedly sweep up the dust until it's all gone.

Or

You can import all the private keys to MtGox.  Let them take care of sweeping the addresses into their combined wallet, and then send a single transaction back to your wallet at the same value as the total of all the dust.

Since MtGox does not pay transaction fees when sweeping bitcoins from an imported private key, it may take a long time for some of the swept bitcoins to confirm.

JUST wher do you see anything about " satoshi dice" in this thread !!!!!

Speculating and off topic comments ARE NO HELP

At this point all I can see is every time you receive btw
transfer them to MtGox maybe adding a fraction of a btw to what you send and use all those XXXX pieces to pay the transfer fee

It sounds like just another way that satoshi dice takes coins.

Bitcoin wasn't designed with satoshi dice spam in mind. There's no warranty in either Bitcoin or SD so what's the problem?

Which part of you can't transfer those fractional pieces don't you understand ?
adding to the wallet does nothing for the pieces problem
you still have all those pieces in your wallet


quote author=Severian link=topic=150291.msg1597479#msg1597479 date=1362688896]
Bitcoin wasn't designed with satoshi dice's various spams  in mind. That being said, you have two options that I see.

Export the private keys and import them all to one wallet. Send another bitcoin or two to this wallet and then send the whole amount to an address generated by bit address.org or similar.

Or you could send 0.1 bitcoins to all the wallets in question and then send all of those amounts to a generated address. Might cost more in fees.

Or maybe we could just stop spamming the blockchain with a goddam game. Just a thought.
[/quote]

Bitcoin wasn't designed with satoshi dice's various spams  in mind. That being said, you have two options that I see.

Export the private keys and import them all to one wallet. Send another bitcoin or two to this wallet and then send the whole amount to an address generated by bit address.org or similar.

Or you could send 0.1 bitcoins to all the wallets in question and then send all of those amounts to a generated address. Might cost more in fees.

Or maybe we could just stop spamming the blockchain with a goddam game. Just a thought.

So what is the max file size for the wallet allowed by bitcoin qt ?

I don't think so
I think the .03   is taken from the 1btc
and the .00000000002 and .97 remain ib your wallet

after time you end up with lots of small pieces

Going forward remember this statement above. 

Here's about the only profitable way to spend these transactions:

Take your 1 BTC payment and your .0000002 payment.  When you want pay someone .03 BTC make a transaction that draws from the 1BTC and the .00000002 payment and pays out the .03 and the .97000002 as change then your .00000002 is incorporated into an input you can spend.  Repeat when you want to send some one .05 btc and you'll have .92000004.  If the coins are old you can get away with no fee.  If the coins are new then there will still be a fee but it won't be more because of the extra input.   

THANKS for your NON help
that real solved the problem
fyi its 2-3 yrs of receiving free mico-coins online
so far it;s cost me almost 1btc spending all the micro free bits

anything paying less than 3 decmial place (.001) is promoting a screw job

You can bet that activity is gambling. Just look at the OP's signature: is participating and actively promoting a ponzi scheme. XD

thats kind of what I thought
but were do you get the rawxfer app ?? and whats its syntax ??
the writeup in the link is as clear as mud

You can compose a transaction manually using Raw Transactions  (but make sure you know what you are doing ... and spend every bit of the input except for whatever you want to go as fees otherwise the miner gets the unspent balance).  Make sure to pay sufficient fees (e.g., 0.001 for or much more if the size exceeds 10K).   Then you will want to wait until that transaction gets included in a block before you use the change from that transaction  in any other transaction.
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Raw_Transactions

It isn't normal to end up with a whole lot of these miniature payments.  So you probably want to consider whatever actions are causing you to end up with them and consider if that activity is worth the pain caused.

Another approach would be to export just the private keys for Bitcoin addresses you have with any amounts above a threshold (e.g., 0.0002 BTC) (worth about a penny) and then import just those into a new, empty wallet.   There still might be dust transactions associated with those, but other addresses with a balance below a penny would no longer be harming you.

and just how does that correct the problem ??

you still have the .25 btc of .000005 peices in your wallet and now more bit coins
but you still can't do anything with the ,.25btc of small pieces

Add funds to the wallets.

How can a bunch of small deposits be transferred when they exceed the file size allowed by bitcoin qt ?

a million transfers of .0000001btc ?
transfers of too small a fraction are not allowed either