Topic: Repayment Deadline Increased for the MT Gox Exchange’s Creditors (Read 377 times)

We have seen the collapse of Mt.gox, and FTX being the most recent, but I think people will quickly forget everything and will continue to use centralized exchanges without a shadow of a doubt. After the collapse of two major exchanges and a series of hacks with centralized exchanges, I don't see exchange dependence showing any signs of abating in the market.


Furthermore, how to diversify? In my opinion, as long as we use non-custodial wallets and do not leave any assets on centralized exchanges, we will never have to worry about our assets being lost or stolen.

The repayment plan has been settled for ages, they know how much money they have, and they have already sold all the coins necessary for the fiat reimbursement so this leaves only the coins for which they've already set the fraction at which they will be paid back.
The money as agreed is there, it's only the actual payment process that is taking that much time, DaveF covered this nicely.

Funny thing, although the previous liquidation did happen at lower BTC prices, they still managed to get a 4x on the current price for BCH, so for some getting their coins next year might be better than getting them in 2020, if these people wouldn't, of course, depend on that money for a living.



Everything you want to know is here:
https://www.mtgox.com/d/04y7ivbnz5gw.pdf
And indeed, it's everything!

Maybe they are considering the market since if it happens that a single batch massive sell out will happen then it could provably a disaster and can affect the price of bitcoin. For sure massive fud will spread and they use this incident just to create short term scare from people who always believe on the news released by mainstream.

The one I truly wondering is how those creditors could cover up all the expenses of this refund plans since for sure there's a lot of people will claim their part and this is so huge, also the question there if they still have enough money to complete this refund to all affected users.

The only place I've lost money with crypto and be able to get them back fully using a reimbursement strategy was in 2018 from a Bitcoin mining pool call Nicehash, they claimed they got hacked somehow and people lost money, I was shocked when they actually paid all the BTC back.

I already moved on and that could have been my third time of losing expensive assets in the crypto space, if I were one of these MT Gox victims I would have done the same, and moved on until they proved to be different by paying back when no one expected.

All these are lessons people need to be cautious about, stop keeping your assets in the hands of any centralized crypto exchanges, anything can happen to them at any given time, I think it's healthier to also diversify your crypto portfolio, if one face the same fate as MT. Gox the others might cover for your losses.

Good point, but I think it is a good thing that they did not give all the payments all at once because if they did market would go into a downtrend sentiment due to the high selling but that selling pressure would be reduced due to these batches. As in batches, the selling will be diving over 1 year while if they did lump sum then that pressure of selling will be implemented in 1 day maybe.

Overall, that does raise skeptical questions about them. I am not a victim of this, but just a question, is not there any proof of reserves that shows that they do have the amount I mean, according to the article and news, they did not say or mention that MT GOX has these much BTC and Yuan and other tokens.

Some sold for even more as it looked more and more like there was an end in site and people were going to get paid. But 25% now then some larger amount later worked for a lot of people.
And going back to what I said on top of that how many people sold to people who they can no longer get in contact with for whatever reason.

Not quite the same but this class action suit:https://www.dollarsfordiskdrives.com
It went though 2 or 3 rounds of payments because they could not find people who were entitled to the funds and registered to get the funds so what was left was redistributed to the people they could find.
Look how long it ran: https://www.dollarsfordiskdrives.com/dates That's 6 years from when you could make a claim till the 1st payment. US only. AND THEY STILL COULD NOT FIND EVERYONE WHO MADE A CLAIM.

-Dave

some peeps sold their accounts for a fraction of the balance back in the day.. im sure thats fun to sort out legally too.

They have a certain amount of money and they will be distributed on a pro-rata basis.
Remember, they have to navigate many countries laws. Make sure the proper people are getting the money and so on.

Think about it, you could have a MT Gox account with nothing more then an email address.

Due to the nature of my job I have accumulated many domains from businesses that have closed and have most of them setup to at least get some emails.
How would you feel if instead of [email protected] went to me instead of you since the company went out of business and I bought the domain for a few dollars.

Or and I hate to drag dead people into this, but we have had members here pass away. How big a shit show do you think it would be if I was in in business with another member here who died but I kept their email account active on our domain since why not and I claimed those funds that really should have gone to their estate.

And so on. Having dealt with similar bankruptcy issues, I can say it's a mess when you KNOW everyone involved. Never mind the wonderful anonymous world of the internet and BTC

And once the money is sent, it's gone. So at least IMO better to be very slow and correct then even just a little bit faster and a very tiny bit wrong.

-Dave

I don't understand why they got a permit, either. They say they need some sort of info to get confirmed first, but I don't think it's a reasonable request. And by creditors, they mean the victims of Mt.Gox or is it something else? I assume it's the victims, but it can technically be about some companies who bought the debt or whatever.
DaveF correctly noted that the at least some payments will be done this year, so that's good, but overall, I don't think too much should be required from the victims in terms of documentation. Getting their money back is long overdue.

I would find the reason in the fact that they are simply not able to do it faster and more efficiently considering how much time it took them to get to the moment when the payments will start. I don't believe that money is a problem, because the total amount that the bankruptcy trustee has will simply be divided between all those who have submitted a request for compensation.

I don't know exactly what formula was used to calculate how much each victim will receive, but in any case it is only a partial compensation, given that most of the hacked BTC disappeared without a trace anyway.

In short, you are calling for more regulation for crypto. Cryptocurrencies are already regulated in many countries and some others like the U.S. and U.K. are even very strict with crypto businesses which has made some of these businesses to cease offering their services to citizens from those countries. There is no significant danger looming in my honest opinion, people should hold their funds in self custody and not keep it with centralized services for a long time, because they are vulnerable to collapse at anytime.
And since the MT. Gox case, how many centralized exchanges and services have failed to secure its users assets and have either been hacked and collapsed or gamble away people's money and become insolvent? We've even lost count. Losing customers' money is typical of centralized exchanges even to this day.

So this means, repayments will start at October 31 of this year and last for exactly one year.

It makes you wonder why Mt Gox liquidators would need to make the repayments in several batches rather than in a single lump sum. The only possible reason I can think of why they'd do this is if they do not have enough money to cover all of the creditors who have filed a claim. In such a case, where do they expect to get the rest of the money from?

I read about this in another thread. The same thoughts now as then, this screams to me that there is a purposeful attempt to delay the demand that the halving has provided for 3/3 times. Each time, it takes roughly 6 months for the bull cycle to be evident, and another 6-12 months to hit the first peak. October 2024 is pretty much 6 months after the halving. Coincidence? I really can't say that I believe it is one. I think something is happening behind the scenes to screw the people.

I perceive a significant danger looming if there isn't a system of justice and regulatory bodies in place to address cryptocurrency-related cases. The issues that arise will undoubtedly become more convoluted if left unattended and without promptly establishing rules for all incidents related to assets that, up to this point, have ownership intricacies.

In my opinion, only rightful asset holders should reap the benefits of their restraint in not spending their bitcoins. This means that all gains should be distributed to the Mt. Gox customers, and any entity involved should adopt a fair stance regarding the temporary ownership status of these assets.

I understand that my perspective might not carry much weight, but when I look at this from any angle, MT. Gox remains a case of failing to secure its users' assets.

It's on the mtgox website: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20230921_announcement_en.pdf  so it's about as official as it's going to get.

I really wonder how messy this is going to be in the end. Wrong amounts paid, people who didn't get paid that should have, people who should not have gotten paid that did.
Just with the amount of people involved and the mess left behind I can see cleaning it up being just about impossible. Add in the decade + of time and it's just a mess.

-Dave

I have noted in many of my comments on various topics that the absence of a regulatory framework that protects traders from the dangers of trading platforms could lead to unexpected disasters. The MTgox case was opened years ago and the length of time is due to the absence of a legal framework regulating trading activities, including proving charges and preparing indictment files before going through the procedures for proving ownership of accounts and then proving ownership of assets that are undergoing major changes that any legislative regulatory framework cannot bear. Take the example of the fork in the blockchain (Bitcoin). How will that fork be considered if it is owed by the users who own the assets, or by the owners of the platform (the defendants), or can the authorities seize it? Many other questions can be asked in the same context, and all of them cannot be answered smoothly.

DID you verify it as true, I know I am replying late, but I did not get the chance to read many replies, but now I am reading. And what do you think, if it's true? Because it came from the news and a letter was attached too, but it does not make me some official source. Instead, your statements indicate that you are also a victim of MT Gox.

As you said you must have received some emails.

I am in no way supporting the hack or the freezing of customers of the MT. Gox because many of them have gone through a lot but the hack might be a blessing in disguise. Bitcoin was worth $489 when the exchange went bankrupt so they have made enough profit. If not for this hack, many of them would have sold off their coins for peanuts. I am sure there will be enough funds to pay all the creditors more than they invested.

The bitcoin market will react slightly to the news because 142,000 BTC is a large number.  But it is good to raise the awareness that the Bitcoin market is strong enough to withstand such an amount so there is no need to entertain FUD. I have also learned that some creditor might decide to keep their coin.

It's been 9 years and what Mt.gox can do is promise, so I think those who are waiting to be paid are familiar with that and they don't rule out that possibility either. In my opinion, there will be no compensation other than false promises from Mt.gox, all of which are lies and fraud from Mt.gox.

What I want is for the victims to be compensated, I'm not afraid they will dump the market if they receive compensation. If you are a long-term investor, you will find that good because you have the opportunity to buy cheap. I don't see anything worrying about Mt.gox compensating or FTX liquidating their crypto assets.

In the end, the eagerly anticipated day may never arrive, as further delays are likely to emerge in the following year. A highly intricate process isn't deserving of hope. Considering that a significant portion of user funds is in the form of BTC, one should understand the consequences of protracted payment postponement; it only amplifies the amount one will ultimately need to settle.

Is this related to the halving? However, I'm not entirely certain about that. Mt. Gox could potentially capitalize on price pumps during the halving by managing their funds. But I believe another delay might be in store when October 2024 arrives, as the pump may not necessarily materialize before the advent of 2025.

Are you sure need lawyer for Mt Gox and FTX exchange user have loss their fund? I think waste time, energy and our money because little chance for refunding our money have loss in both exchange above. Good scenario planning by Mt Gox where publishing issues they will refund all bitcoin user loss last several years ago and they have promised more than three time but never got happy ending for Mt Gox user. Right now the same with FTX try they will refund the user assets but I doubt how come scammer will realize and go to the right way for returning back their member assets.

Open up our new journey and forget with how much loss in both exchange, never trust with sweet promising if Mt Gox will return and have deadline day when their member assets will refund.

Again bad news for investors waiting for MT Gox to refund. One year is very big duration and I don't know why MT GOX playing with them. Tokyo district court gives approval also is very strange. according to coinmarkecap  Kobayashi(trustee handling the Mt Gox bankruptcy) required  time for checking and finalizing all data of users and institution. MT GOX holding BTC, BCh and Japanese Yen but btc value is bigger.
Coinmarkecap Article

Now The question is , Mt Gox will refund the the total amount of btc at the price of collapse or quantity everyone lost?


You can check official announcement in their official website https://www.mtgox.com/

Wow didn’t think they would extend it that long, I assumed it would be a few more months not another year. This is why there is little hope for FTX creditors because after these lawyers all get paid we will all get Pennies on the dollars in about 10 years time.

They really need to speed up this process because the only winners in this scenario are pretty much just the lawyers. They extend it as long as possible to get the most money. It’s ridiculous.

If they are stalling then obviously there is something wrong and they cannot full repay anyone just yet. They are already under pressure by regulators to repay investors and traders. But this might mean that they are not going to repay anyone at all. I doubt that the government will give them a bail out. Maybe they are just simply trying to appease the public with simple PR rather than taking action on their promise? Perhaps they are hoping that with enough time, they can fix the situation or get off, scott free, from the debt?

At some point we could be seeing imprisonment of the people responsible and nobody will get their money back.

Nice highlight.

So, really we can expect all refunds to be done by Oct 2024, meaning supply will be released between now and then.

I wonder if the 69billion in Japanese Yuan will be used to rebuy more of the lost coins...and I wonder if there is a way to keep track of the situation outside or media coverage.

Does anyone have any tools to track this saga on chain or any way outside of MSM/MSCM?

I’m wondering where they got that information and how true it is. I haven’t seen any notification of such. Maybe I should go check my mail, but typically these sorts of notifications are done over email and I usually receive them before seeing news articles like this. So for now I’m taking this news with a grain of salt, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it were true.

Another reason why people should not store their funds in an exchange, it must be frustrating for MT. Gox's creditors, having to wait this long and now an extra year added to the waiting time. On top of that, they aren't even getting a 100% refund because the exchange lost around 850,000 BTC and all they have right now is 140,000 BTC.

This issue has been used for a long time to create fud in the BTC market, but take note that they will not be making the refund in only BTC, but they also have around 143,000 in BTC cash and 69 billion in Japanese yen, so ignore anybody who is trying to create fud with this situation or at least let us just wait for the payment to be made first and see how the market reacts.

How do customers feel that they will receive this year after some news? Then there is news again Mt.gox is stalling for another year obviously this is boring time again, there is always a way that they will continue to delay indefinitely.

I think this will happen to FTX, when the trial is over then they will refund to their customers the same will continue to stall for the time they want, so always think that the expectation of a refund from the exchange should not be too much more it will all be nonsense.

Although in 2024/31 October they can fulfill their promise.

This has been prolonged for so long, it's really not looking nice for anyone that had any money there. It's a big legal hassle that is taking so long and we should have seen those people finally getting paid.

I know that it is hard to make sure that you can pay everyone, after all most of the money is gone, and the ones that are left is not enough to pay everyone back, and they are trying their best, but I would say gather all the money you can, basically every cent, literally sell their houses of those mt.gox management if you have to, get every single cent, and then pay everyone an equal fair share of their money. That's it, that would be the end of it and there wouldn't be anything else left to deal with ever again.

Before we talk about the repayment rate on the amount expected to be refunded, I don't think the victims of these same incident can all have the opportunity to partake in these second chance opportunity, i don't know the medium and procedures they may wanted to adopt in doing this but i just wish everything comes to live as expected, if adjusting the date is the only request made then i don't think this should be a problem because before you know, here comes 2024.

In the next 6 months we will hear the deadline is Oct 31, 2025, next year we will hear the deadline is Oct 31, 2026 and keep repeating until the victims already tired to get back their funds.

As long as no victim posted he already get refunded by Mt.Gox, I will keep assume the repayment is still a bullshit.

I hope that the date of October 31, 2024 is a final date in which the MT Gox problem will be resolved once and for all, and if this means that the currency will be done in batches or will be slightly regulated and the problems will be solved, I do not see that waiting will be a problem, especially since it is unlikely that we will reach the ATH by next October.
As for the effect on the price, it is calculated from the date the first customer receives his payments. If this happens, it will cause a temporary increase in the price, and then the news will be normal. The effect of MT Gox has ended and all that will happen is a temporary pump.

I just hope that the process ends quickly, otherwise when the price rises, we will start hearing that some people have sold thousands of Bitcoins, and this will be a reason to scare the price and break the ATH away from 150K.

Now it's getting boring drama over and over they are extending the dates, whether it's on the long-term distribution or any of their other strategy and just engaging us into their lame excuses. 1 year or 1 month does that really matter if they are gonna change it again? So even if the waiters are ready to wait for one year I would like to let them know, that sooner or later there will be again a flash of hope.


Buddy, I don't think it will have much effect on the market, as per the decision it even confused the market sentiments, currently they could have a holder if the day won't be changed, or according to the market price maybe most of them took an exit. But for now, there will be no such scene as funds are not in users' hands, so any unexpected event may not occur.

This gives them a way to crash market in fall of 2024.
If coins take off and are 75k in oct they release these and the market slumps.
They must feel owners of the coins would sell them all.

You have raised a good point and a great advice. I will definitely add this thread or simply add this information on a sheet of delaying dates. To be honest, I doubt if they will repay the amount even on 2024. Because in the letter the trustee has declared that, they can still change the date according to the conditions. This raises concerns too. But fingers are crossed and let's see what will happen next. But for the time being, I feel sad for those who have their funds stuck in it but at the same time I am happy too.

Because the sword of dip due to mt gox's payment, that was hanging on our heads is not removed. This means we might not see fuds related to this issue for some time now.

those who want cash instead of btc/bch can have mtgox do that conversion automatically and sent to a bank account. so those left must want the btc and bch directly.

of that, i would expect many/most keep the btc but sell the bch, prolly into btc.

well thats my plan anyway.

so a btc selloff once we get some coin back seems unlikely.

One of the payment options is directly to a bank account, so I wonder why someone who just wants to get cash as soon as possible would choose a payment in Bitcoin at all? All these stories and speculations about how the price will fall because people will start selling en masse when they get all the coins is one of the biggest FUD that has been going around for years.

If we were somewhat realistic and divided those 140 000 BTC in the following way, then we could end this story once and for all.

- 40 000 BTC will be paid directly to clients in their wallets and they will mostly keep it.

- 40 000 BTC will be sold by the bankruptcy trustee via OTC (over a period of time) and the money will be paid into the clients' bank accounts.

- 60 000 BTC will be paid out in BTC and (there is also a BCH option), and the majority will be sold through various CEXs over a period of several months to perhaps a year.

If you take this scenario into account, then it is completely stupid to think that a few tens of thousands of BTC that will be sold gradually could have any impact on the price. Of course, all this would make sense in a world where people behave rationally, but given the obsession with this topic, I have no doubt that it will be very easy to sow panic when the time comes.

Not surprising since they keep announcing this potential refund more than 6+ years and no one already paying attention to this refund already due to delays.

Afaik, Their refund process is by batch so this 1 year extension is understandable since they are planning long term distribution also they might use the Bitcoin halving hype to increase their Bitcoin holding value before they liquidate it slowly to benefit on price spike.

I would have said they are trying so hard to fix their reputation, but the truth is after the hack and the long time it took them to announce the reimbursement of the victims, they can't fix their reputation. Even if they repay all the victims money today, they've already tarnished their reputation and I don't think anyone with a thinking cap would want to use the exchange.

Certainly, we are going to experience an increased amount of sells but I don't think it's going to affect the market that much. Some of the victims are no more with us, while some have gone on to be good Bitcoin hodlers, so if they had received their Bitcoin, they would have hodl unto it and sold during the bull.

It borders on wonders that they repay losses.
Hopefully it sets an example.

This is not the first time they have postponed the repayment date. I guess many of these victims will immediately sell off their coins when they receive the repayment. And this would have flooded the market which might lead to a drop in price. But if payment to the victims will be done in batches, then it is a welcome development. At least the sales of this bitcoin will spread within one year which will not affect the market so much. Repaying these funds in batches will also reduce errors and other complications. It is also a green light to investors I keep buying and hodling. I just hope that everybody who has lost money in MT Gox gets back their funds.

It is also possible that Rehabilitation trustee Nobuaki Kobayashi and his advisers are targeting next years having and huge investment in the bitcoin sector. Maybe they want to make more money for these claimants.

There is no justifiable reason for a delay here, this is not good enough. I’m not sure what games are going on here but maybe people in higher places have ordered this delay due to the halving & potential ETF approval. Maybe the expected dump following the release of coins is better served for the powers that be later on, down the road. The trustee has had plenty of time to get everything sorted for pay out at the original date. The reasoning given for delay is not good enough.

1 year is still a big deadline, they might start from the end of the year, but there is nothing confirmed. There are 24000 creditors who have been patiently waiting and now again they have to wait. I do not think this news would influence the existing market. The market is still going sideways and I do not think we will think any changes would happen. We cannot ascertain now how the market would react when they will pay what they promised. Bitcoin halving will happen next year, at the moment it is likely to happen by March. There would be a six-month gap in between to complete it, the bull market should start by that time.  

Also from that article linked:


From what I see the 2024 date is the END of the repayments, not the start. I can see them wanting to do it slowly and in batches to make sure it goes well as opposed to shoving it all out the door as fast as possible and dealing with all the issues at once. There are merits to doing it both ways.

-Dave

Shake my head when I read this. Again, it happens again. Delay again and again, years already.

Will Mt.Gox victims receive their coins back after all those delays?

I doubt it but even those victims receive their bitcoins, Bitcoin market will be big enough to absorb those bitcoins if they are all sold on the market. Assume victims will receive coins in October 2024, there will be more FUD about it around that month. Assume distribution will be made, you must bookmark that article and that date to avoid likely fud attacks around that time, next year.

It's important for you to cash out before that date or to prepare capital to buy dips.

According to the cointelegraph, the trustee Nobuaki Kobayashi has changed the repayment date by 1 year. I mean directly from  Oct 31, 2023, to Oct 31, 2024. That was so unpredictable and honestly I don't know on what basis they are delaying the repayment. Even though they have funds in their hands. It would be good if they had repaid the amount to the creditors so that they would use them according to the market's current condition. I mean according to the upcoming halving event.


To be honest, I almost thought that, they would increase the repayment date. But did not think that they would put an increment of 1 year. That's so long for the waiters. But if they have waited this long then I think they can wait for another year too. Plus I have a question, is this a good factor for the market or not? I do know that, if they would pay the amount then we will see some selling of BTC, BCH and Yuan, etc. Which would cause a dump in the market. But what else I am missing other than this?