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Topic: Repeating the Mistakes of the 2008 Bailout (Read 209 times)

hero member
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Bitcoin = Financial freedom
April 11, 2020, 01:49:47 PM
#14
That's the reason bitcoin was created in the first place.

The irony is that now bitcoin follows the stock market in its ups and downs.
That's a downside to me in terms of bitcoin. I know it's good because it helps the value go up and not stay stagnate, but sucks it almost feels like just a stock when looking at the price.
Stagnant is better than volatile because we used to call bitcoin as currency so it must have a stable value but it is not possible either until everyone uses bitcoin so it is going to be volatile all the days but the range of swing determines how it will be in the future.

As far now it is not correlated with stocks since the values are getting recovered at good rate from the fall so its not just a stock its more than that.
full member
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0xe25ce19226C3CE65204570dB8D6c6DB1E9Df74AC
In the book by Robert T. Kiyosaki, he faulted bailout program as it serves as a means of gifting money to the rich in lose their money in financial crisis, he used that of Greece as a classical example wherein bailout never did reflected in the improvement of the economic, instead the nation went down the more. But the government don't care and the Mafia of our economy are their think tank.  

Congress green light in $2trillions bailout, some 10% or $200 billions goes to 200 millions low life peasants, each family get $1000 for corona pandemic relief, the rest 90% or $1.8 trillions goes to bailing out the rich people. It’s the status quo in 2008, and 2020, we are still making the same status quo mistakes, get out from dollar system or you’re forever a lowlife peasant the rest of your life.
sr. member
Activity: 1918
Merit: 370
That's the reason bitcoin was created in the first place.
Hmm I think not. Bitcoin was released as early as January in 2009, and the recession has ended as late as June 2009, I don't think the man behind bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto, did come up to create bitcoin in a
matter of months? I mean there is nothing we should think about how bitcoin was supposed to do. We have tons of digital cash concepts in the past that could've trigger Satoshi's mind to create and start a new one.

The irony is that now bitcoin follows the stock market in its ups and downs.
Fear. This is all that caused the crashes and declines from all the market because of the corona virus. Basically, people is needing what they need to survive so it would not be too logical if we see the market crashing all this time. You know even billionaires panic when life is at the edge.
member
Activity: 845
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In the book by Robert T. Kiyosaki, he faulted bailout program as it serves as a means of gifting money to the rich in lose their money in financial crisis, he used that of Greece as a classical example wherein bailout never did reflected in the improvement of the economic, instead the nation went down the more. But the government don't care and the Mafia of our economy are their think tank. 
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1860
That's the reason bitcoin was created in the first place.

The irony is that now bitcoin follows the stock market in its ups and downs.
That's a downside to me in terms of bitcoin. I know it's good because it helps the value go up and not stay stagnate, but sucks it almost feels like just a stock when looking at the price.

Talking of Bitcoin as a market and not as a currency or a payment system, and getting a little hint that it is now moving alongside the stock market, do you think it will move much more like the traditional market in the coming years? The Bitcoin market is not a traditional market, of course, but as soon as the same old players enter in it, perhaps it will become more or less like their old playground?

Anyway, if this old financial system will not learn from past mistakes, big ones, it will it end up irrelevant. And something else will replace it. Is Bitcoin next in line?
full member
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🎄 Allah is The Best Planner 🥀
In the event that folks adapt to things mistakes might not be repeated, but some corrections are possible Bitcoin is typically not a stable currency it always fluctuates. nobody can say exactly when its price will go down But as you rightly said it had been within the first place nobody would be ready to prevent its price fluctuation. therein case if the crypto market improves BTC won't remain stable Will return to his previous place.
sr. member
Activity: 542
Merit: 251
That's the reason bitcoin was created in the first place.

The irony is that now bitcoin follows the stock market in its ups and downs.
That's a downside to me in terms of bitcoin. I know it's good because it helps the value go up and not stay stagnate, but sucks it almost feels like just a stock when looking at the price.
legendary
Activity: 2254
Merit: 2253
From Zero to 2 times Self-Made Legendary
What if America did not consider this a mistake. What if this practice is not a mistake and not a repetition of mistakes. Bailout is a strategy where the narration and plot are the same, only the story is made differently. starting a world war, subprime mortgage, and now coronavirus. The purpose of the release of Corona is not only as a legitimacy for printing money but also to mark the world military domination of America being carried out.

The world is currently experiencing an aging society because of the increasing number of older generations and will soon enter the world of artificial robotic intelligence, blockchain & biotechnology, where the role of humans will be minimized. All of this will change the world business model but to implement that protocol the world must be reset.

Bitcoin might have been created to overcome the 2008 crisis but cannot be relied upon to resolve the current crisis because the majority has not touched the real sector, if since 2008 bitcoin can be used everyday then the expected beneficial effects will be achieved. In the future, in the middle of a world that is full of vulnerable, uncertain, complex and ambiguity, we must prepare ourselves if the government does not understand the shifting of the pendulum of world interests today.
sr. member
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History always repeat itself. It happened many times in the past so its doomed to happen again. Its hard to change the current financial system because the people on top are benefiting from it. Resisting the cryptocurrency to take over is of course a normal response. But its gradually changing, BTC could lead it to different direction.
sr. member
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The year 2008 all stock market has been crushed and maybe the reason why bitcoin was created after years come but it's not sure because many people believe different theory as bitcoin made for hacker so no one can trace them and some people believe that bitcoin was created so people can do money laundering or for those who don't want to pay tax. We should be thankful to Satoshi Nakamoto of what he/they created that until now it has existed over a years and this is a good alternate to fiat.

Maybe if Bitcoin was fully controlled by the government, it is now a worldwide use. But the fact, even them they think that this is a big threat to them. Decentralized digital currency really has great help when the economic crisis down. Maybe not repeating the mistakes, another reason might coincidence.
legendary
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Not only are we repeating the mistakes, we have been doubling down on every wrong move and misstep in the years that followed. So we learnt that bad debt repackaged with other types of debt is still bad debt. In the decade since we've not only been buying bad debt we've been buying and rebuying and repackaging bad insurance and just basically any kind of derivative that smells.

And at least in 2008 the bailouts were from taxpayers, which was bad yes, but now we're just printing money for the bailout. What do we think is going to happen to people's savings?
full member
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0xe25ce19226C3CE65204570dB8D6c6DB1E9Df74AC
Quit my job and retire early to do what I want to do in life. What I want to do in life? First thing I want to do in life is escape from this shithole country called land of freedom, second I would travel to Japan, why Japan? Because there is bunch of hot Japanese girls begging to get laid for free! (Compare to America girls who would save their virginity until they became wizards, also America whores won't appreciate you for spending cash on them, they wouldn't enjoy banging you, they bang you for the money only, when you hurt their feeling they can conveniently call you a rapist and you need to prove your innocent in the court, if you loss the accusation, you get slapped with heavy alimony, also a jail term is warranted, your career are ruined for life for being rapist. American whores are too expensive they ain't worth my time to waste my life on them. Many horror story of how American men get screwed, Jeff Bezos? Robin Williams? Elon Musk?)

Yes! Travel to bang the young girls around the globe, most notably, they're giving laid for free and they're gonna enjoy your companionship, they would thank you for giving good time to them, and they're not gonna burn a hole on your wallet unlike the western counterpart, why would you even thinking about banging them? Jeff Bezos paid 400 billions dollar in alimony for banging whore, is it worth it to pay $400 billions for a hot old virgin? Or would you rather spend the $400 billions on yourselves and get the best out of that money by banging endless supply of young girls around the globe? I won't possibly have $400 billions in my entire life, but with passive income as little as a few thousands dollars, I'm I can do what I want to do in my life. Instead of wasting my youth working for this endless debt cycle and getting old day by day and contribute to the political and economical output for this land of freedom, I would regret I didn't get out of this madness earlier, my body will get old, and my sex drive would plummet, my face would get old by a few years, my hair would turn white by a few years, my legs and my arms would get weaker by a few years for losing calcium, all for what? I sacrifice so much of my youth for paying down the endless debt cycle that's not my responsibility, but the boomer generation who are the one should pay the debt! Is it fair for me to getting old and getting sexless and getting bullied and getting running and hiding in basement? And force to get to school to learn something useless and get to university and ended up with a lot of student loans, and force to work my entire life to pay down the loan, but the fucking banks who get bailout for fucking up trillions dollar worth of investors and pension money? The fucking bankers? Who is that fucking bankers who get bailout by losing trillions dollar worth of money? The Goldman Sachs? The JPMorgan Chase? The Citigroup? The Glass-Steagall Act? The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)?

Part 2 coming soon...
sr. member
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That's the reason bitcoin was created in the first place.

The irony is that now bitcoin follows the stock market in its ups and downs.
legendary
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Quote
We needed to rescue the financial system in 2008, and we need to support sectors like airlines and aerospace now—but TARP is the wrong model.

At the center of the Senate Republicans’ version of the emergency aid bill, which Democrats opposed on Sunday and Monday, is $500 billion in money for big corporations that is to be entrusted to one public official—the Secretary of the Treasury—with no oversight of his decisions and no strong rules laying down how corporations should, and should not, use those funds. The ostensible reason for this is to protect jobs, yet the GOP bill’s job language is more of a suggestion than a mandate.

The coronavirus has crippled major sectors of our economy—including airlines, hotels, aviation, aerospace manufacturing, and small business. Just as the federal government needed to intervene in the financial sector in 2008, the federal government needs to help these sectors of our economy now. But a lot of people are asking, didn’t we just do that in the bank bailout? And should we repeat the bank bailout, this time with Donald Trump and Steve Mnuchin in charge?

To understand the answer, and where a TARP-style bailout will lead, we need to go back to 2008.

That September, global stock markets were in free fall. Credit markets had frozen. Major financial institutions—AIG, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers—had gone bankrupt. Theoretically risk-free money markets were losing money. Confronted with this financial meltdown, the Congress passed, after much struggle, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. Otherwise known as the bank bailout.

One lesson of 2008 clearly applies: If you give vast amounts of public money to a single person with no real accountability, you won’t like what happens next.

Then as now, big banks and big companies wanted money without conditions. Everything seemed so much easier that way. Government officials wanted flexibility, and no unpleasantness. But the result was that Wall Street and company executives got what they wanted, and the public, and anyone else who was supposed to be helped, like homeowners in 2008, and workers today, ended up with crumbs, or worse.

The coronavirus crisis is different from the 2008 panic. The economic crisis is worse, and the public-health threat has no modern precedent. The primary goal in anything that is done now has to be to preserve employment, and health care, and living businesses. But one lesson of 2008 clearly applies. If you give vast amounts of public money to a single person with no real accountability, you won’t like what happens next. It does not really matter who that person is, but it really does not help if that person, or that person’s boss, has an agenda other than the public interest.

The bank bailout was a grant of authority to one person, the Treasury Secretary. At the time the TARP statute was passed, President Bush was in office, and the Treasury Secretary was Hank Paulson, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, and the man who managed to get the Bush administration to support action to stabilize the financial markets. There is a famous picture of Paulson on his knees begging Congress to act. Later in the history of TARP, the Treasury Secretary was Timothy Geithner, who served under Barack Obama.

The TARP statute provided that the Treasury Secretary made all the decisions involving $700 billion in public money. There was no board, and no requirement of congressional approval. There was an inspector general—SIGTARP. The inspector general could issue subpoenas, and make recommendations to the Justice Department and to Congress. But the inspector general could not stop the Treasury Secretary from acting as the Treasury Secretary pleased.

Then there was the Congressional Oversight Panel, the COP, chaired by Elizabeth Warren (then a private citizen), on which I served. This is remembered as an effective body, but that was due really only to the enormous work put into it by Warren, my fellow board members, and the staff.

The truth is that the panel had no power at all. It was purely advisory. It had no subpoena power, and it could not swear in witnesses. Officials came in front of us and lied with impunity. The one I could never get over was the panel of Treasury Department witnesses who denied that Citigroup was bankrupt in the week before Thanksgiving 2008. They said that though they knew that Citi officials had called Treasury the Friday before Thanksgiving and told them they would be out of cash the following Tuesday.

With no conditions on how they employed the public’s dollars, the banks were allowed to bleed homeowners to rebuild their capital, and ten million American families were foreclosed on.

And what was the outcome? The COP did a study, which was all we could do, of the TARP transactions. We hired a top-flight independent valuation firm and recruited a team of finance professors to oversee them. They found that the government got securities-preferred stock and warrants—worth between 61 cents and 71 cents on the dollar—in exchange for the hundreds of billions of public money it had turned over to the big banks. Why? The Treasury had not asked for enough equity in return. When the program ended, TARP’s investments in the big banks and AIG did slightly better than break even, which is a terrible return for the risk that was taken with the public’s money. Small banks had to prove they were solvent to get help; bankrupt big banks didn’t. And with no conditions on how they employed the public’s dollars, the banks were allowed to bleed homeowners to rebuild their capital, small-business lending dried up for years, and ten million American families—40 million people, millions of children—were foreclosed on and driven from their homes. The beneficiaries—Citibank and Bank of America, Goldman Sachs and AIG and JPMorgan Chase—are all fine. But “bank bailout” is a curse word in American politics, public confidence in government has never recovered—and Donald Trump is president.

What are the lessons? Give no one person control over a public bailout—which is exactly what the Republicans’ legislation confers on Trump Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. Have an independent board make those decisions. If the goal is maintaining employment, have workers on that board. If at all possible, use the money directly to accomplish the intended goals, rather than give general financing to companies. In this situation, that means subsidize payrolls first, then only if necessary give capital to firms. If we give capital to firms, insist on a fair equity return on the back end for the people of the United States. And any oversight body must have subpoena power and the ability to swear in witnesses and an adequate budget.

The American economy needs huge help now—trillions of dollars to support employment and keep broad swaths of otherwise healthy American business from collapsing. That help should first and foremost take the form of direct employment support and help for those who nonetheless end up without work. Yes, some help for severely affected industries is needed. We need to give it in a way that strengthens the public’s faith in our democracy and achieves the public purposes that the money was intended to achieve. That requires real accountability, real oversight. And that means doing a lot better than we did in the bank bailout.

https://prospect.org/economy/repeating-the-mistakes-of-the-2008-bailout/


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This was written by Damon Silvers. Deputy chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel for TARP back in the day. I don't agree with everything said here. There are politics and conflicts of interest entertwined with most of what is published today.

Bitcoin having been partly motivated by the 2008 economic crisis. People could find this disclosure interesting in terms of the events of that time. As well as its implications for the future. For anyone with aspirations of designing the perfect currency. I think this article illustrates key issues that would need to be addressed and overcome.
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