Replace by Fee beginner question | Bitcointalksearch.org

nc50lc

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Quote from: Catenaccio on February 23, 2024, 11:00:00 PM

Sender can bump fee with Replace By Fee by two options.
- Preserve payment.
- Deduct payment.

Since the topic is about Sparrow Wallet, it's worth noting that he wont be seeing those options if he used RBF, those are Electrum-specific options.

In Sparrow, the user can freely edit the amount with lower, same or even higher value as long as there's enough UTXO to spend.
The recipient address can also be changed manually.
Basically "increase fee" (deduct/preserve) and "cancel (double-spend)" options in Electrum for "power-users".
Electrum just simplified those as wallet features for the common users.

Catenaccio

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on February 23, 2024, 10:51:56 PM

This is quite simple. There are a few things to note when you broadcast a transaction.
Firstly the sender can bump the fee himself with some extra coins from his wallet in doing this it won't affect the initial amount you send since the extra amount spent in bumping was from the remaining balance.

Sender can bump fee with Replace By Fee by two options.
- Preserve payment.
- Deduct payment.

With preserve payment, the initial sending value does not change and sender must have some satoshis to pay the extra bump fee.
With deduct payment, the initial sending value will be deducted by extra bump fee. In this case, the sender does not need to have extra satoshi to bump fee but eventually the sending value of that transaction will be smaller a little bit (by deduction for extra fee).

Quote

Also, the receiver can bump the fee probably because they want it received faster(confirmed quickly) so they can speed up the confirmation by creating a child transaction from the initial transaction only with a higher fee.

It's Child Pay for Parents, not Replace by Fee.

Mia Chloe

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This is quite simple. There are a few things to note when you broadcast a transaction.
Firstly the sender can bump the fee himself with some extra coins from his wallet in doing this it won't affect the initial amount you send since the extra amount spent in bumping was from the remaining balance.
Also, the receiver can bump the fee probably because they want it received faster(confirmed quickly) so they can speed up the confirmation by creating a child transaction from the initial transaction only with a higher fee.

Technically both the receiver and sender can bump the fee. When the sender bumps it's referred to as RBF and CPFP when the receiver bumps.

seolein

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Quote from: Cricktor on February 19, 2024, 02:15:16 PM

I think you can lock the thread.

Another little word of advise: be careful what and how much you disclose about your coins. We're already talking about likely at least 0.88BTC and that's not a small amount and value. You've given enough details to actually find your transactions on the blockchain and with simple following the coins who knows what else is revealed of your wallet belongings.

It's usually better to keep a lower profile. Your problem could've been discussed with more fictional amounts, e.g. divide real amounts by some non-obvious divisor.

no worries, the amounts are entirely fictional. In the beginning I said "for example 0.5btc" but thanks still, its a good point in general.

Cricktor

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I think you can lock the thread.

Another little word of advise: be careful what and how much you disclose about your coins. We're already talking about likely at least 0.88BTC and that's not a small amount and value. You've given enough details to actually find your transactions on the blockchain and with simple following the coins who knows what else is revealed of your wallet belongings.

It's usually better to keep a lower profile. Your problem could've been discussed with more fictional amounts, e.g. divide real amounts by some non-obvious divisor.

seolein

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so the transaction was finally confirmed, it is what hosseinimr93 suggested that the 0.38btc was the change I got back for bumping the fee.
I did a 2nd transaction with the rest of my stack, so all is now moved to a coldcard with passphrase wallet which has 2 UTXOs in total (down from 14 UTXOs), hopefully that will help next year with lower transaction costs when I assume price and fees will be going bananas.
thanks for the help.

nc50lc

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Quote from: seolein on February 18, 2024, 04:28:39 PM

Today I right-clicked on the unconfirmed transaction in Sparrow and selected "increase Fee Replace by Fee" - I did this and set the fee to 10sat/vb.
And now I have a new UTXO (Unconfirmed/Spendable) I did not have before today with like 0.38btc.

Did I do anything wrong?

One way to make sure of it is to expand your transaction in the 'Transactions' tab.
Use the forward arrow icon ▶ on front of it and you'll see which UTXO are spend and created;
"Spent" represents which UTXO are removed from your UTXO tab since those are used by that transaction.
And "Change" or "Received" are the ones added to your UTXO tab.

If you check its "output point" (Shown as: Change to ), it should match with its corresponding entry in the UTXO tab.

Of course, if you have other transactions, check if the change or received UTXOs in the other transaction are spent by the later ones.

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Quote from: BitMaxz on February 18, 2024, 05:39:46 PM

The 0.38BTC from 0.5BTC makes us confused without telling us what the exact amount you have in your wallet is.
I just thought that the total amount you have in your wallet is 0.5BTC and sent it all with a low transaction fee and then after you bump the fee you receive another unconfirmed transaction which means you have 0.88 BTC from your wallet like hosseinimr93 pointed out above and the 0.38BTC is the change transaction.

A transaction hash/tx Id can be very helpful in this case and it can help us figure out what really happened.
Anyways, no need to speculate, I believe hosseinimr93 neiled it right. Re-read his last post and you will understand what happened.

BitMaxz

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The 0.38BTC from 0.5BTC makes us confused without telling us what the exact amount you have in your wallet is.
I just thought that the total amount you have in your wallet is 0.5BTC and sent it all with a low transaction fee and then after you bump the fee you receive another unconfirmed transaction which means you have 0.88 BTC from your wallet like hosseinimr93 pointed out above and the 0.38BTC is the change transaction.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: seolein on February 18, 2024, 04:36:36 PM

Got it - so if I had set a higher fee from the beginning I would not have this new additional UTXO in my wallet which now probably increase future transaction cost for my remaining UTXOs in my wallet.

It depends.

Assume that I have made a transaction sending 0.5 BTC using a UTXO worth 0.6 BTC. My transaction would have two outputs. One of them is owned by the recipient and the other is the change.
Now if I bump the fee, my transaction will have two outputs.

If I make a transaction using a UTXO worth 0.5 BTC and send 0.5 BTC minus fee, my transaction will have exactly 1 output.
If I want to bump the fee without decreasing the sending amount, I have to add a new UTXO and my transaction will probably have a change. If I decrease the sending amount to cover the additional fee, my transaction would still have 1 output and there wouldn't be any change.

seolein

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 18, 2024, 04:34:16 PM

Quote from: seolein on February 18, 2024, 04:28:39 PM

And now I have a new UTXO (Unconfirmed/Spendable) I did not have before today with like 0.38btc.

As I said the 0.38 BTC should be the change you received in the transaction sending 0.5 BTC.
If you didn't have the unconfirmed UTXO worth 0.38 BTC before bumping the fee, that could be because your wallet added a new UTXO to your transaction for covering the transaction fee.

Got it - so if I had set a higher fee from the beginning I would not have this new additional UTXO in my wallet which now probably increase future transaction cost for my remaining UTXOs in my wallet. Interesting, learned something today. thanks!

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: seolein on February 18, 2024, 04:28:39 PM

And now I have a new UTXO (Unconfirmed/Spendable) I did not have before today with like 0.38btc.

As I said the 0.38 BTC should be the change you received in the transaction sending 0.5 BTC.
If you didn't have the unconfirmed UTXO worth 0.38 BTC before bumping the fee, that can be because your wallet added a new UTXO to your transaction for covering the transaction fee.

seolein

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on February 18, 2024, 04:24:10 PM

You sent 0.5 BTC and you have a UTXO worth 0.38 BTC which is unconfirmed. Am I getting you correctly?

If so, the 0.38 BTC should be the change you received after making the transaction sending 0.5 BTC. The total value of UTXO(s) used for your transaction was around 0.88 BTC, you sent 0.5 BTC and received 0.38 BTC as change.

Oh I see... but in the original transaction I did not have any change.. strange... is it because to pay the higher fee an additional UTXO was added and now this is the change I get back?

seolein

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i mean originally I sent 0.5btc, set the rate to 7sat/vb and it was unconfirmed for days.
Today I right-clicked on the unconfirmed transaction in Sparrow and selected "increase Fee Replace by Fee" - I did this and set the fee to 10sat/vb.
And now I have a new UTXO (Unconfirmed/Spendable) I did not have before today with like 0.38btc.

Did I do anything wrong?

hosseinimr93

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You sent 0.5 BTC and you have a UTXO worth 0.38 BTC which is unconfirmed. Am I getting you correctly?

If so, the 0.38 BTC should be the change you received after making the transaction sending 0.5 BTC. The total value of UTXO(s) used for your transaction was around 0.88 BTC, you sent 0.5 BTC and received 0.38 BTC as change.

BitMaxz

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Do you mean after you bump this transaction on the same wallet you receive it only 0.38BTC?
Have you checked if the fee you set is enough? What I think maybe the bump fee you set is very high which causes this issue.

By default, sparrow is allowed to spend unconfirmed transactions which is why it shows spendable even if the transaction is still unconfirmed.

seolein

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Hi
I am using sparrow, sent a transaction with very low fee so it just was stuck for few days. lets say for example I sent 0.5btc.

Today I used the replace by fee function in Sparrow to send the transaction again with higher fee. It is still a bit low so still unconfirmed, however in sparrow suddenly I see a new UTXO with like 0.38BTC and it says "Unconfirmed(Spendable)" instead of showing the date.

what does it mean and why does it not show 0.5btc the value of my original transaction? why such a random one?

thank you!

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