Author

Topic: Reserve Bank of #India Looks for Alt Reserve (Read 2891 times)

legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
December 04, 2012, 09:56:59 AM
#29
bitcoin has an advantage compared to bankcoin (assuming bitcoin is used as main currency in global commerce): the reserves grow/shrink proportionally with the global economy.

Am not quite sure what you're getting at but perhaps you might consider putting a reply in the other thread for me to respond to (don't want to derail this thread).
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
December 04, 2012, 09:32:18 AM
#28
I don't see why they would bother with Bitcoin when they could very easily and cheaply create Bankcoin: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/will-bankcoin-be-appearing-any-time-soon-129047


bitcoin has an advantage compared to bankcoin (assuming bitcoin is used as main currency in global commerce): the reserves grow/shrink proportionally with the global economy.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
December 04, 2012, 08:29:36 AM
#27
What exactly would be the problem with a government or a lot of people "snatching up bitcoins"?
I'll have a crack at answering this one but I'll ask readers to bear in mind my limited understanding of the bigger picture.

If what you're referring to is what the OP is about then what they'd be buying it for is to put into cold storage as a reserve fro the Indian Rupee.  As I see it this is not an increase in distribution nor use for commerce.

In order to buy a proportion that would make any kind of impact on the overall value of their reserves they'd need to buy well more than is currently available at Mt Gox.  All I can see the impact being therefore is a massive inflation of the bitcoin price over a sustained period with an accompanying reduction in bitcoin available for everyone else.  

Of course the divisibility means in one sense it doesn't matter but without being able to justify my feeling about it I would be a lot more comfortable if the cause of such an increase in price and reduction of Bitcoin available to purchase were to happen in conjunction with wider dispersal, more and more geographically distributed nodes and minig outfits and more time for the software and Bitcoin economy to become more robust.

I would also be more comfortable for me, should central banks eventually decide to use Bitcoin as a reserve, if it were much more highly valued and distributed first.  It just wouldn't feel right for me for a single fiat-issuing entity to be the primary beneficiary of all subsequent growth in Bitcoin value.

Agreed  (for some reason i thought rchapoteau had mentioned their use as a normal currency in india, instead of just a reserve asset)
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
December 04, 2012, 07:39:06 AM
#26
I don't see why they would bother with Bitcoin when they could very easily and cheaply create Bankcoin: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/will-bankcoin-be-appearing-any-time-soon-129047
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 506
December 04, 2012, 06:59:44 AM
#25
What exactly would be the problem with a government or a lot of people "snatching up bitcoins"?
I'll have a crack at answering this one but I'll ask readers to bear in mind my limited understanding of the bigger picture.

If what you're referring to is what the OP is about then what they'd be buying it for is to put into cold storage as a reserve fro the Indian Rupee.  As I see it this is not an increase in distribution nor use for commerce.

In order to buy a proportion that would make any kind of impact on the overall value of their reserves they'd need to buy well more than is currently available at Mt Gox.  All I can see the impact being therefore is a massive inflation of the bitcoin price over a sustained period with an accompanying reduction in bitcoin available for everyone else. 

Of course the divisibility means in one sense it doesn't matter but without being able to justify my feeling about it I would be a lot more comfortable if the cause of such an increase in price and reduction of Bitcoin available to purchase were to happen in conjunction with wider dispersal, more and more geographically distributed nodes and minig outfits and more time for the software and Bitcoin economy to become more robust.

I would also be more comfortable for me, should central banks eventually decide to use Bitcoin as a reserve, if it were much more highly valued and distributed first.  It just wouldn't feel right for me for a single fiat-issuing entity to be the primary beneficiary of all subsequent growth in Bitcoin value.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
December 03, 2012, 06:48:46 PM
#24
What exactly would be the problem with a government or a lot of people "snatching up bitcoins"?  As long as the fundamental ideas behind it don't get changed, that would be brilliant in my mind (unless it is a somewhat smallish country with a lot of political enemies, who could view destroying bitcoin as a valid move to hurt the other), greater network power, much greater userbase and legitimate businesses that would use it (and as a bonus higher BTC prices for early investors)... I don't see the problem.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 03, 2012, 03:49:55 PM
#23
If India wants to act as a private entity in the BTC market I am all for that. Although it seems like any government [barring third world countries] could pool their resources en route to controlling the BTC market. What I think is most valuable about BTC is the fact that they are not tied to ANY government, crazy revolutionary organization, etc. They are tied to the world's people.

You bring up a good point.  If a country was going to make this their reserve currency, with a finite amount of bitcoins out there, I could see them buying up/controlling it.  India is WAY TOO BIG for bitcoin.  A government with a population of 1.2 billion people snap this up faster than they do our phone support jobs.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
December 02, 2012, 10:15:02 PM
#22
If India wants to act as a private entity in the BTC market I am all for that. Although it seems like any government [barring third world countries] could pool their resources en route to controlling the BTC market. What I think is most valuable about BTC is the fact that they are not tied to ANY government, crazy revolutionary organization, etc. They are tied to the world's people.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 02, 2012, 08:36:33 AM
#21
I'm not saying the people of India don't have technology, I know they do.  However the biggest selling phones over there up until just recently were old school phones on the cheap.  A lot of low end PC's are made for India as well.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem like they would be prepared overall to use it.

Yes I understand that it would be for the government to use, but in a country like India I really don't think something like this would go over well if the population has no access to it, or potential understanding of it.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 2245
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
December 01, 2012, 02:25:29 PM
#20
I think Bitcoin's which require a lot of technology to use, is not a good fit for a country like India. 

I think you have a somewhat outdated idea of India. Also, this would be for the government to use, not the general populace, I would assume.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 01, 2012, 11:10:05 AM
#19
The price probably fluctuates a bit too much for any real consideration.   Also too new.  Maybe in 10 years if it is still around and stable it will be considered more.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
December 01, 2012, 10:46:44 AM
#18
Maybe they are already looking at it Smiley.

I think you are being a bit optimistic here  Smiley.  Bitcoin is an experiment, central banks want certainty.
Who wants to be the guy who brought up the idea to buy all these 'bitcoins' as a reserve, if bitcoin should fail?
If bitcoin grows and matures over the next couple of years, hopefully some people will be willing to stick out their neck. 
Right now, I think it is very unlikely...
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
December 01, 2012, 10:26:00 AM
#17
I think Bitcoin's which require a lot of technology to use, is not a good fit for a country like India. 
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 27, 2012, 05:17:03 AM
#16
That's a chicken and egg problem. Once the central banks of the world started using it as a reserve currency, it'd be well-capitalized quickly Wink

A nation cannot capitalize its own reserve, at least I don't see how it can. It needs to already have a global demand.

I think the major capitalization will happen when polititians learn how easy it is to hide bribes and kickbacks with bitcoin. They will also make sure it stays legal.

Good point, but I'm quite sure those polititians don't even know how to install a client  Cheesy

Politicians usually have people doing the real work for them if required.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
November 26, 2012, 09:43:20 PM
#15
That's a chicken and egg problem. Once the central banks of the world started using it as a reserve currency, it'd be well-capitalized quickly Wink

A nation cannot capitalize its own reserve, at least I don't see how it can. It needs to already have a global demand.

I think the major capitalization will happen when polititians learn how easy it is to hide bribes and kickbacks with bitcoin. They will also make sure it stays legal.

Good point, but I'm quite sure those polititians don't even know how to install a client  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
November 26, 2012, 08:56:22 AM
#14
I do beleive that Bitcoin is the answer, but needs more visibility.

I dont think that the Indian government will go the Bitcoin way as yet.

It is interesting however, that most of what they are looking for in a new reserve currency is already present in Bitcoin.

Maybe they are already looking at it Smiley.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
November 25, 2012, 05:09:49 PM
#13
The solution is to find more than one country willing to trade in Bitcoins.  Then they can capitalize each other, and others will join.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
November 25, 2012, 12:09:04 PM
#12
That's a chicken and egg problem. Once the central banks of the world started using it as a reserve currency, it'd be well-capitalized quickly Wink

A nation cannot capitalize its own reserve, at least I don't see how it can. It needs to already have a global demand.

I think the major capitalization will happen when polititians learn how easy it is to hide bribes and kickbacks with bitcoin. They will also make sure it stays legal.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 24, 2012, 04:16:42 PM
#11
There is not enough capitalization for bitcoin to be used as a reserve currency now.

That's a chicken and egg problem. Once the central banks of the world started using it as a reserve currency, it'd be well-capitalized quickly Wink
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
November 24, 2012, 01:36:50 PM
#10
There is not enough capitalization for bitcoin to be used as a reserve currency now.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
November 23, 2012, 09:04:32 PM
#9
Quote
The governor pointed out that one alternative was to have a menu of reserve currencies. "But this cannot happen by fiat. To be a serious contender as an alternative, a currency has to fulfill some exacting criteria. It has to be fully convertible and its exchange rate should be determined by market fundamentals; It should acquire a significant share in world trade; The currency issuing country should have liquid, open and large financial markets and also the policy credibility to inspire the confidence of potential investors. In short, the 'exorbitant privilege' of a reserve currency comes with an 'exorbitant responsibility'," he said.

Sounds about right

Except a good part of the criteria are not currently being fulfilled by bitcoin:

  • fully convertible: don't know, what does that mean, exactly?
  • exchange rate determined by market: CHECK
  • there is a issuing country: FAIL
  • should acquire a significant share of world trade: FAIL
  • should have liquid financial market: MAYBE
  • should have open financial market: CHECK
  • should have large financial market: FAIL
  • policy credibility: CHECK (maybe even good enough to make lack of issuing country not an issue?)

All the fails that matter can be resolved with persistence and dedication and will necessarily take time to manifest and mature.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
November 22, 2012, 07:04:55 PM
#8
No, your not over-sensitive.  It's just another version of 'conspiracy theory'.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 506
November 22, 2012, 07:02:52 PM
#7
...it is a ponzi, unlike anything seen before.
Oh no, not the 'p' word again.  I can see where you're coming from but please let's not go there!  It's such an emotive term for which people have substantially differing ideas of what the essential characteristics of a ponzi scheme are.  Isn't there another way to convey the problem with the aspect of what's going on you see as problematic?

Sorry if I'm just being over-sensitive to it!
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 506
November 22, 2012, 06:57:54 PM
#6
The Reserve Bank of India is looking for emerging market currencies as alternative reserve currencies to the Dollar.

#Bitcoin is the answer.

Bitcoin most certainly has the potential to be but we're a long way from that yet.  All it needs is time and gradual adoption and adaption to developing circumstances without being attacked or otherwise destroyed by the powers that be.

I had not realised that part of the reason the massive QE going on is not resulting in a significant devaluation of the dollar is that other countries are buying it up as reserve.  If some countries are going to be disposing of some, to an extent it doesn't matter what they replace it with because the resultant flooding of dollars will surely be good for the BTC/USD rate - thus making Bitcoin more attractive?  I'm no economist so I may be missing something essential here.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
November 22, 2012, 06:16:46 PM
#5
Quote
The governor pointed out that one alternative was to have a menu of reserve currencies. "But this cannot happen by fiat. To be a serious contender as an alternative, a currency has to fulfill some exacting criteria. It has to be fully convertible and its exchange rate should be determined by market fundamentals; It should acquire a significant share in world trade; The currency issuing country should have liquid, open and large financial markets and also the policy credibility to inspire the confidence of potential investors. In short, the 'exorbitant privilege' of a reserve currency comes with an 'exorbitant responsibility'," he said.

Sounds about right

Except a good part of the criteria are not currently being fulfilled by bitcoin:

  • fully convertible: don't know, what does that mean, exactly?
  • exchange rate determined by market: CHECK
  • there is a issuing country: FAIL
  • should acquire a significant share of world trade: FAIL
  • should have liquid financial market: MAYBE
  • should have open financial market: CHECK
  • should have large financial market: FAIL
  • policy credibility: CHECK (maybe even good enough to make lack of issuing country not an issue?)
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
November 21, 2012, 08:56:37 PM
#4
Relevant article:
ABOUT THE BENJAMINS: Why the share of $100 bills in circulation has been going up for over 40 years

Quote
So what the heck is going on here? Inflation may have something to do with it—there just weren’t as many things to buy in 1970 that might require one to slap down a $100 bill—but that still wouldn’t explain why their proportion today has nothing to do with what people see in their wallets.

The short answer is that a lot of money is spending a lot of time outside the United States.

The cognoscenti look at the share of $100 bills as something of a proxy for foreign demand for US currency. An overwhelming majority of the $100 bills come from the Federal Reserve Cash Office in New York City, which handles the bulk of foreign shipments of US currency. A typical shipment is a pallet containing 640,000 such bills, or $64 million, according to a recent Fed paper.

Somewhat surprisingly, it’s unclear exactly how much American money is floating around outside the US. Estimates run the gamut. In the 1990s, one high-profile estimate pegged the number at as much as 70%. But more recent estimates hover around 25%-30%.

And while there are plenty of reasons folks outside the US might want to hold dollars, the thinking is that most people are not using these $100 bills to buy milk and bananas. No, most economists seem to believe $100 bills are most often used as stores of value—almost something like mini-Treasury bills that don’t pay any interest. This is especially so in developing countries, where problems with unstable currencies and inflation often mean the purchasing power of local currency gradually—or not so gradually—erodes over time.

So it is a ponzi, unlike anything seen before.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 2245
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
November 21, 2012, 08:19:41 PM
#3
Yup. Dollar is on cruise control right now. Just wait until the inertia really starts to falter.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
November 21, 2012, 11:54:05 AM
#2
Quote
The governor pointed out that one alternative was to have a menu of reserve currencies. "But this cannot happen by fiat. To be a serious contender as an alternative, a currency has to fulfill some exacting criteria. It has to be fully convertible and its exchange rate should be determined by market fundamentals; It should acquire a significant share in world trade; The currency issuing country should have liquid, open and large financial markets and also the policy credibility to inspire the confidence of potential investors. In short, the 'exorbitant privilege' of a reserve currency comes with an 'exorbitant responsibility'," he said.

Sounds about right
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
November 21, 2012, 08:09:19 AM
#1
The Reserve Bank of India is looking for emerging market currencies as alternative reserve currencies to the Dollar.

#Bitcoin is the answer.

http://goo.gl/8L1pc
Jump to: