Topic: RESOLVED (Read 999 times)

Hello,

Just wanted to let you know that the reason I was silent for the past week is because I am still talking to Wintomato per email. I expect to have more news next week.

I don't think they are broke, they have a very small team and low cost website. Any casino or sportsbook can make a lot of money if they don't blow it on advertising and too much staff.
But in case they cannot afford the whole amount: that's why I offered them also the solution to pay 150mbtc per month for 12 months long. Which they refused.

They offered me $6000 which is ofcourse not acceptable since it means they still stole $23.000 and then they indeed stopped replying.

So, I just spent 6 hours doing some very accurate research and these are the results:

I manually calculated and doublechecked all my bets placed during the entire 11 months lifetime of my account and these are the numbers per month:
Dec 2021: -$7.947 over a total of 27 bets
Jan 2022: +$9.138 over a total of 120 bets
Feb 2022: +$3.491 over a total of 132 bets
Mar 2022: -$10.459 over a total of 24 bets
Apr 2022: -$12.284 over a total of 63 bets
May 2022: -$23.680 over a total of 111 bets
Jun 2022: -$43.582 over a total of 94 bets
Jul 2022: -$15.149 over a total of 73 bets
Aug 2022: -$1.826 over a total of 75 bets
Sep 2022: +$22.665 over a total of 57 bets
Oct 2022: -$3.668 over a total fo 42 bets
Nov 2022: +$42.039 over a total of 126 bets (this number has the cancelled bets still counted as wins)

So from these numbers we can draw the following conclusions:
- I started with a losing month, then 2 winning months so I was $4682 in the plus on March 1st. If I was a value bettor, why did Wintomato not at this point already cancel all my bets? They should have had enough evidence (not saying I am value betting, but they are) after 3 months and being in plus. If they would have voided all bets at that point, it would have saved me a lot of losses in the next months at least.
- Then, as you can see from 1st March until 31st August 6 losing months in a row, bringing my total account losses to a massive $102.298. How on earth can you lose so much for such a long period if you are doing value betting? This is statistically impossible.
- Then, in September finally a good month. Apparently they still accepted this, which is ofcourse logical if you see how much they earned from me already.
- Sadly this did not continue in October as I had another bad month, although not as bad as previous losing months
- And then in November I finally got on a really good run, which we can surely call a winning streak. Even though, with this good run included my account was still at an overall loss of $41.262. And then they decided it was already too much and confiscated roughly $29.000 from my account, bringing back the total losses to around $70.000

Then, lets's look at the 17 cancelled won bets from the screenshots in the opening post of this topic and what odds other sportsbooks were offering at those exact same times and scores in those games. Those are taken from betsapi.com where everyone (including Wintomato) can log in (even using Facebook without having to register) for free to check all live odds at certain times and game scores, which means it's very accurate and totally independent.
1) Chicago Bulls @ 2,52 versus Boston Celtics at score 15:10 at 2:23 AM CET on Nov 22:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 2,60 while Marathonbet and Cashpoint both had 2.50. As you can see the 2,52 of Wintomato is clearly not off.
2) Indiana Pacers @ 1,27 versus Orlando Magic at score 8:1 at 1:16 AM CET on Nov 22:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,28 while Bet365 had 1,27. Again, the odds of Wintomato are not off.
3) Indiana Pacers @ 1,24 versus Orlando Magic at score 8:1 at 1:17 AM CET on Nov 22:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,26 while Betsson had 1,23. Again, the odds of Wintomato were not off.
4) LA Lakers @ 1,18 versus San Antonio Spurs at score 34:20 at 4:05 AM CET on Nov 21:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,20 while Unibet had 1,17. Once again, Wintomato odds were not out of line.
5) Denver Nuggets @ 2,74 versus Dallas Mavericks at score 40:32 at 2:21 AM CET on Nov 21:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 2,65 while Betsson had 2,55. Okay, for this game Wintomato had slightly higher odds than others, but clearly not far off enough to warrant a void.
6) Sacramento Kings @ 1,69 versus Detroit Pistons at score 117:118 at 2:16 AM CET on Nov 21:
At this exact same moment Betsson had odds of 1,74, while Bet365 had 1,63 and Unibet had 1,62. As you can see, the Wintomato odds were not out of line.
7) Indiana Pacers @ 3,70 versus Houston Rockets at score 23:40 at 2:52 AM CET on Nov 19:
At this exact same moment Betsson had odds of 4,15 while Bet365 had odds of 4,10. In hindsight you can even say I got pretty low odds from Wintomato here.
8 ) Washington Wizards @ 2,97 versus Miami Heat at score 57:69 at 2:06 AM CET on Nov 19:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 3,25 while Marathonbet had 2,91 and Unibet 2,80. Again, Wintomato odds were not off from others.
9) LA Clippers @ 1,62 versus Detroit Pistons at score 15:23 at 5:10 AM CET on Nov 18:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,70 while Unibet had 1,64. Yet again Wintomato was not even the best around.
10) NY Knicks @ 1,69 versus Denver Nuggets at score 66:60 at 5:31 AM CET on Nov 17:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 1,66. So yes, Wintomato was slightly the highest here, but not by such a margin that it should be void.
11) Toronto Raptors @ 2,52 versus Miami Heat at score 18:27 at 1:58 AM CET on Nov 17:
At this exact same moment both Betsson and Cashpoint had odds of 2.50. So totally comparable odds to Wintomato.
12) NY Knicks @ 1,58 versus Utah Jazz at score 94:89 at 4:57 AM CET on Nov 16:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 1,54, so Wintomato had slightly better odds but not clear enough to warrant a void.
13) Dallas Mavericks @ 1,55 versus LA Clippers at score 70:68 at 4:26 AM CET on Nov 16:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,70 and Bet365 had 1,57. So again Wintomato not even the highest here.
14) Miami Heat @ 1,52 versus Phoenix Suns at score 109:107 at 3:45 AM CET on Nov 15:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,70 while Bet365 had odds of 1,53. Yet again Wintomato not the highest.
15) Sacramento Kings @ 2,78 versus GS Warriors at score 80:78 at 4:35 AM CET on Nov 14:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 2,90. So clearly the Wintomato odds were not too high.
16) Minnesota Timberwolves @ 1,21 versus Cleveland at score 40:20 at 0:38 AM CET on Nov 14:
At this exact same moment Betsson had odds of 1,16. So yes, we can say Wintomato was relatively high here. Personally I don't think such a difference warrants a void, but this odd comes closest to warrant a void of all games I have described here.
17) Oklahoma City Thunder @ 1,88 versus NY Knicks at score 94:88 at 19:36 PM CET on Nov 13:
At this exact same moment Unibet had odds of 1,85 while Betsson had 1,82. Yes, Wintomato was slightly higher but the margin is so small that it cannot warrant a void.

So, I think the picture is pretty clear: in a big minus overall, and on nearly each of the 17 void bets the odds of Wintomato were not even the best around. To confiscate a balance from an 11-month long loyal customer who finally had 1 really good month, is very very harsh.

Wintomato, if you read this be honest and simply admit you acted way too harsh. Go ahead and look at the betsapi.com website and see for yourself. If I am a value bettor then I am a really dumb one because I could have shopped around for better odds on almost every game. And if I was doing value betting it would statistically be impossible to have 6 big losing months in a row over such a large sample.

If this does not get solved then it will be big red flag for any potential new customer.

They actually replied today. Not the kind of reply I was looking for but at least they are talking again, so I answered back to them. Will give them a few more days to consider my offer and will let you know once there is a resolution.

Complaint resolved.

As a side note, I've been considering about posting this since yesterday for the sake of protecting OP's best interest, in concern that they'll voided OP's next installment --yes, as I've been contemplating about it since yesterday, it also means I am completely aware about a certain missing post-- but I think it won't be fair for other user of they didn't get forewarned of the possible risk they're facing upon signing up to wintomato, so...

I am leaving a negative tag as well, forcing your customer into NDA just in order for them to get what's rightfully theirs is not a good practice. If wintomato has nothing to hide and their allegation is true, then they won't force the NDA; it only proves that they wrongly accuses and ban player without plausible reason. Further, not sure if the real reason behind the unproven accusation is because they want to void the winning because they can't pay it or for other reason, but the fact that they need to install a payment amounted 29,000 USD certainly worth a caution, it could mean they're illiquid and possess some degree of possibility that future user will get their payment unfulfilled too.

Will change them to neutral tag when they paid in full, and will consider to remove the tag if they can provide plausible and concrete story behind this case.

I still have the tag on this casino and will not remove it without an explanation as to the terms of the deal. There is no reason for it to be a hidden deal. I also will not remove it unless the OP was paid in full and proof provided.

A casino should not be operating if it cannot pay out a win in full(unless their ToS say max monthly payout or something). With a deal reached and the op told to keep silent makes the casino look scammy as fuck.

Judging your bet size you really high roller with big pockets.
is not suprised  that you take a lawyer and try to beat them up.


You said you closed deal with the casino just becareful. If he tried to scam you once is not a guy you could trust and make deal withs. it may be a set up.

Obviously he understands now that you have money and you are not going to let it go and he is afraid.

Thanks for the update @OP

I'm happy to see your case are already resolved, although I don't know what's the agreement and how much they're already pay to you, but if it's goes wrong, you need to update in this accusation again.

Since you're said this case is already resolved, it's better if you add RESOLVED word in the subject title and lock this topic.

Guys, I am glad to announce that my dispute with Wintomato has been RESOLVED since we came to an agreement. Part of the deal is that I cannot say anything about the conditions so I'm sorry I won't be able to answer questions about it. This will also be my last post in this topic. Thank you all so much for the help, without the Bitcointalk community this would have been much harder!

I was curious, so I checked two random matches on betsapi to confirm if the information OP provided below is true.
The first match I took a look at was:

I can confirm that the odds on bet365 according to betsapi were indeed 1.27 as can be seen here. You might need to be logged in to the betsapi app to see the whole history of odds. I didn't check the other betting companies. Bet365 is the largest, so there is no need.

The second much I checked was:

This particular situation is a bit different. The odds were updated that exact second. Bet365 had odds of 1.571, and in that exact second the odds increased to 1.666. Everyone can check it out here.

Is that enough to void and cancel the bet? I don't think so. If bet365 kept their odds at 1.571 and didn't update to 1.666, I would say that Wintomato had a valid reason to void those bets. But that isn't the case here.

@GekkeBelg
Have you created a flag against Wintomato? I think you should do that. I haven't seen anything from their side to suggest they were right to cancel your winnings. If there is something like that, I would like them to show it to me. And since they have decided to stay silent on this matter, it's clear to me that they don't want to handle this properly.

So where's the Wintomato's representative aka scammer? the account last active was December 7, but their last post was November 26 which mean they're shut their mouth for around 2 weeks. If the @OP is scammer why Wintomato doesn't make continuous reply? as we can see the @OP here is the one who keep replying. If you're right, don't be scared, actually the scared one is the scammer.

@OP you need to ask them to pay you the complete $29K, if they only want to pay $6K it means they don't have enough bankroll to pay you.

If you could update your opening post with this alongside with a screenshot as an evidence of their counter-offer, it'll be nice. I find it quite questionable for their side, if they're sure your account is cheating but then decided upon a "good will" by paying you one-fifth of amount due, isn't it a bit strange? If they're very sure you're an abuser, they won't do anything and keep on pressing with their defense.


Last time, it worked nicely. They were "too busy" with updating their staff that they missed the accusation for months. Given this one is not even clear what's the real reason why they canceled OP's WD, let's see if a nice orange number on their profile helps motivate them enough to handle this case more seriously.

I have tagged their forum account in hopes they will reply here and give you some answers. They have been online in the past week. They have had some issues in the past here so I don't know if they will want to solve your issues. They might be too broke to pay you.

I thought you're exchanging emails with them? Was this mean the resolution you're looking for is not reached? Or are they stopped replying again? If they're still looking and discussing for a solution with you by emails, I think it's quite unfair if you reached here and post something that made them looks bad ---fact and data or not-- although they're still in a good will. Unless they went MIA again?

Wow that is pretty shocking that even if you lose big they can still just take your funds!
You are right that it can't be value betting if you lose over a period of a year and especially if the odds looked quite normal!

You sent the email on December 3rd? Are they replying you through email? As I can see that they're online again yesterday, so the chance is almost zero that any of their staff didn't notice your offer. It's bound to happen by --at least-- now that either they saw the email or their representative read your post here. Seems they choose to ignore you if you're yet to get any, any, reply.

You may as well start the legal proceedings is how it sounds to me. If they haven't paid you by now, I doubt that they plan to. They are likely going to stick to their claim and see if you go away.

I do wonder the same thing. However, it's fair to point out that we are starting to see accusations against Stake as well that seem sketchy to say the least. No one is guilty until proven to be guilty of wrongdoings, but it's worth keeping an eye out. I think there is one or two active scam accusations against Stake at the top of this board right now.

My question here is why do you choose to play at a smaller casino that has a semi sketchy past? Why wouldn't you choose to play on a site like Stake.com. roobet, Bitsler or Gamdom? Sites that have shown they have a bankroll to make a big payout.

You're free to play at wintomato but why would you? I see a lot of accusations against smaller sites and cannot understand why a player decided to play there, let alone play with a big balance. Seems a little odd doesn't it?

I doubt they care much about their reputation and unless they come here with some proper explanations and proof, it could get even worse. My advice to the OP is gather all the evidence and make a complaint on AskGamblers as well. Someone from their team will take a look at your data and also request proof from Wintomato. My next piece of advice is to give them a few days to see if they will respond again in this thread. If not, create a flag against them and let's see if there will be enough support for it. The way things stand now, I will be one of those who will support the correct type of flag. 

It looks like I'm not wrong to say if this casino want to hide their sports terms of service from the gamblers, moreover they haven't show any proof to back up their own words since it's just an excuse and they haven't any reputation in this forum.

The wintomato representative is logging in this forum yesterday, but they haven't give any reply until now. I think they're still making a new excuse to not pay this gambler

Yeah, arbitrage betting and value betting are two very different things. They are not illegal in the sense you will be taken to jail if you do it, but they are unwelcome and frowned upon. Bookies put limits and even ban players for value betting. In OPs case, his bets are clean and round numbers. Arbitrage betting is recognized if you see weird wagers that you wouldn't normally make. For example, betting $100 on an outcome is a normal thing. Betting $103.48 isn't. It looks like it's been calculated by an arbitrage calculator for maximum profit.

I'm not familiar at all with gambling and their terms, so I have to rely on the internet to look for the definition of the terms wintomato accused OP did here that put him on this position, but unless the definition I read are wrong --all five of them, actually, so the odd is nearly nonexistent-- there are inconsistencies on your counter-accusations against OP.

As per your reply on this thread, quoted above, you ban OP because they violate your TnC of value betting, which you neatly also explained on the lower part of the post. While the screenshot of email on 17 September, and whatever emails that you're yet to show us to backup the "multiple times" claim, is a warning is about the arbitrage betting.

These two, according to five different sites I read, are a different thing. On arbit betting, you bet on several outcome simultaneously, while value betting is simply --which can also be summed from your own post-- is the act of placing one bet where you're kinda sure --still a gamble, though-- that the outcome would be against the odds that the bookie placed. A nice comparison is here:


So, if you ban OP, stating that the reason is because you've warned them several times about arbit betting which they kept ignoring and forced you to lock their account, it can be summarized that either (1) you're as clueless as me about betting terms because the two counter-accusation you gave are two different things and yet somehow you understand them as one similar thing which leads you to ban them and ultimately leads us all to this position, and how on earth does a professional betting provider didn't know that they're different thing? Or... (2) you ban every user the instance they tried a betting method, no first warning or whatev. Bear in mind --in case you missed my point-- that the two is a different thing, so your email on 17th September --arbit betting-- is completely unrelated to the explanation of the "cheating" the OP did as per your explanation on 25th of November --value betting. And please note that from the way I understand them, these methods are actually quite legal as they're counted as "strategies".

Of course, the two possible summary above is under the assumption that OP is indeed utilize one of the two methods, you should explain how does OP arbit betting if they loses a lot of times. Or, if they're value betting, why does the invalid ones --thus revoked-- are only the winning terms while the other bets aren't. I think, the first thing you should do right now is make up your mind whether you ban OP for value betting or arbit betting... it'll be nice if we can have a side dish of explanation about how you mixed up both terms too.

I am not familiar with the MLB or the different segments that exist in a baseball game. But by using the betsapi site that was suggested above, are you able to find that particular moment in the match where you placed your live bet with high odds so we can see what odds bet365 was offering at the exact same time? If the offered odds were similar on both bookies, it would be a clear sign that Wintomato didn't act appropriately.

Thanks, I can see it now. That's clearly not how it should be. Those links should also be placed on the main page and not hidden somewhere in a wallet of text like Wintomato is doing. And another thing, if you compare the link to their general T&C (https://wintomato.com/en/terms-and-conditions) to the one that applies to sports betting (https://wintomato.com/en/news/sports-terms-and-conditions), do you notice that it says "news" on the link? It's a separate page on their casino, like a blog where they post various betting and crypto-related articles. You can check it out from this link: https://wintomato.com/en/news. The interesting thing is, the news article about their Sports T&C isn't visible in the list.

---

So I am asking the Wintomato representative one more time, walk me through the process of accessing the page for your Sports T&C? And a follow up question: why is that news article about your Sports T&C not available in the list with the other articles?

You can check by clicking the general terms and conditions, then look on the 12.13 rules, it's where they mention the sports betting terms and conditions. I think it's tricky and they want to hide it from their gamblers, they wouldn't aware if this casino has a separate rules for sports since they only write the general terms and conditions. Unlike the other casino that mention their sports terms and conditions on their main page.

Can you show us some proof about the warnings your received about the mentioned player by sport RMG to confirm that part of the story? Remove any sensitive and identifiable data, especially names, addresses etc.? Also, when were you warned about the activities? Was it during the period while the player was losing or did the warning arrive when he started winning a bit?

I know what value bets are. Other bookies ban and limit players who partake in such activities, so they aren't exactly "bet for fun" type of activities. They could be considered a professional way of betting that isn't welcome at casinos. However, value betting is profitable long-term. If it's true that this particular player has a loss of $30k overall, how can he be value betting? Where is the logic in that? Are you saying that he was value betting even when he was losing? If he is now in a minus of $30k, he was probably down over $50k at one point in time since he mentioned that he started a positive streak. 

Regarding your Sports Terms and Conditions, I saw the link you posted, but that link is nowhere to be found on the main page of your casino. The landing page only shows the general T&C, not the one for sports. Walk me through the process of accessing your Sports Terms and Conditions from Wintomatos' main page please?

Can you mention how and show us a few of those warnings you sent to the player?

OK, this seems like a valid warning. @GekkeBelg, any comments?

This is the communication mail with him on 17th of September 2022, during this time we already warned him about our suspicions and but did not take radical actions, however possible consequences were clearly stated and T&C were referred;

The first question is why you're not fix the odds first and let the gamblers to bet on such buggy bets? you're the reason why the gamblers can bet in that match, any gamblers will try to find a better odds among the other bookies. You're just make a rules that want the gamblers to lose and you're don't want to see them to win, I don't think it's make any sense to have this kind rules.

I don't think the gambler is wrong if they're just looking for better odds, as long as they're not using any such tools or break the other rules they're not wrong.

If you are lucky and end a month winning more than you lose for them it is "value bets" and they don't pay you, it's as simple as that.

@wintomato
Is it possible to know with what criterion the "value bets" are counted?
what does the bookmaker do to realize this data? what algorithm does it use?
for example, if the same odds occur on betfair.com (exchange markets), also in this case we can speak of value bets (regardless given that the odds are still wrong by the bookmaker??)

I've been using them for years, I'm sure you can find bet365 odds on all your matches. You just need to login.


Yeah, I know, when a bookie starts talking about value betting and how they only allow recreational bets, that's total bs. If they don't like the players' actions, they can cut the limits, but they have to pay out all the winnings 

I got curious and compared odds on the last two cancelled bets at wintomato and bet365 (the world's leading bookmaker).
OP bet 2k on Chicago Bulls at 15:10 with 2.52 odds, while bet365 odds ranged between 2.6-2.65.
Another bet 4k on Indiana Pacers at 8:1 with 1.24 odds, while bet365 odds were 1.2-1.27.

So yes, OP's bets are fine, it's the bookie with lame excuses trying to steal the winnings.

https://i.ibb.co/w0J0MmW/chicago-bulls-odds.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/QfFy3QX/pacers-odds.jpg

Anyone can check odds for that matches using betsapi.com free service.


Since we are talking about a lot of money, it is worth consulting with lawyers. Personally, I can not advise anyone, but I heard that LMS Advocaten helped in similar cases with casinos registered in Curaçao.

Well OP is daring you to show proof that you did warn him and you use the word several times, if OP is very careful with his account he will take heed of the warning but he claimed that he did not receive any, with this statement the burden is on you to show that you really warned him, or this will be another reference of you being a bad casino to play with if Wintomato cannot show one better create another flag pointing to this thread.

this is a large amount. if they don't pay to get a lawyer.wintomato will be fined and forced to pay a larger amount as well.

this is insane nonsense written by wintomoto.from a legal and legal point of view the player can make whatever bets he wants.that is, he will be 100 percent convicted in a court case.under which laws the user is not allowed to play value bets.c

Wow this is pretty shocking to me. I would have expected better from a casino/bookmaker which is already in the business for 2 years. I think this could cause lasting reputation damage if you don't solve this Wintomato! People will not trust you anymore!

We gambling providers reserve right to cancel Bet Slips when odds are deviated from the normal coefficient  there is nothing unusual;

And we restrict the user completely if one is engaged in value betting system: hutting for buggy bets;

We canceled the following bets because all of them were value value bets;

And you were warned several times about this;

We were warned by sport RMG team about your action but since you had long betting history we did not take actions, unfortunately later we audited your bets and 90% were value bets; And you already could withdraw solid amount;


You were restricted several times by sports betting provider;
So don't mislead people; 

Hello,

This player tries to show himself as victim but we are victims in reality: last month 1.2 BTC were withdrawn by him without a single deposit:

All won by value betting activities which is restricted in any gambling platform and is subject for confiscation; Please have in mind that we did not cut balance but cancel the bet slips which were won by these actions;

We with our sports betting provider checked the profile of this user played during the last month;

As a result, on the ground of value betting activities the following bets slips id were canceled:

2206646772934250525
2206630708485693737
2206630142808305965
2206308726162469114
2206283993064808496
2206282279226061162
2205567151128055873
2205555267494617147
2205237284406694064
2204879879005147423
2204828191783264705
2204511227781190263
2204503841376973085
2204029261952721044

https://wintomato.com/en/news/sports-terms-and-conditions

12.2.1 Within one month we reserve the right to cancel bets slips if the user has been spotted doing permanent value betting activities;
*** A value bet is simply a bet where the likelihood of a given outcome is higher than what the odds offered reflect. This means that the expected return is statistically positive. Value betting, therefore, means betting only when your chances of winning are higher than the bookmaker estimated.

Wintomato – Risk Management Department

THey ve done like scam to me.
They re Really big scam.
I betted 250 usd and after I won I expected 290 usd but they pay me 214 usd lol that s not even my base bet.
How can you win a bet on sport and don't even get your base bet after winning :O

Sad to hear your experience against this casino,

Just like above user mentioned there's an accusation that hasn't been resolved and they have active type 1 flag. But since the victim didn't online after he create an accusation, this casino give an excuse if the accusation is fake. So I hope you shouldn't leave this forum until your case has been resolved, although they seems not really active in this forum again.

I will leave negative feedback to warn other users.

They already have scam accusations against them and also active flags that have never been solved.
So do not expect that your issue will be solved it's sad that after you sent a KYC or documents to them they confiscated your funds without a valid reason terms and privacy policies from them can be change anytime that can be also used to fool individual users if any users withdraw a big amount? That's an obvious scam they only made their Casino to scam.

Don't ever play again at a non-reputable Casino just like this. Most of the trusted casinos here on the forum are those that have active and consistently running a campaigns and old Casinos with high trust scores.

This is the highest form of injustice, and a modern way of scaming, if I must say, because i see no reason why a casino should liquidates a users winning games of almost $29,000 after requesting for KYC and successfully completed by that user. But however, this is still an allegation until proven otherwise, and luckily we have representatives of " Wintomato" on this forum, of which I will like to ask what does "Wintomato" has to say about this allegations.?

Because with all due respect, O.P has done nothing wrong from explanation given above, and should be given back his/her money in full @  $29,000,  i.e if Wintomato care about its reputation

Hello,

Today is one of the worst days of my life. I cannot believe what Wintomato.com have done to me today. The simply took away my balance of 1.791 BTC (about 29K USD worth) with some rediculous reason mentioned. Let me explain the situation:

I decided to join Wintomato.com in December 2021. I liked their design and their many livebetting options and started to bet live on my favourite sport NBA. I did not go quite well as I was losing way more than winning, but okay that is simply how it can go in sports betting. I continued betting on NBA during winter and spring, and then also started betting a lot on MLB during the summer. All in all, from December 2021 till this week I have probably placed about about 2000 bets (all on NBA and MLB, never on any shady leagues or sports) and lost a shitload. I remember I was down about 80K in USD at some point back in the summer. Then, in the last couple months it slowly went a bit better and especially the last 2 weeks I was on a roll, winning a lot of bets on NBA. So right now I was at the point of being "only" about 30K USD in the minus and I was quite happy that finally I was getting out of the hole I was in before. So since my balance got a little high (1.791 BTC) I decided to request a withdrawal of 0.4 BTC on Tuesday. Business as usual I was expecting, because the previous deposits and withdrawals (about 50 in total)  all went smooth and fairly fast, but this time the next day I saw it was rejected and then I saw a message saying I needed to do KYC and send in a selfie with my passport and a note with some text next to my head. Okay, fine, so I sent it. And then they kept silent for 2 days. The new withdrawal I submitted kept pending and was never processed and then today I log in to my account and suddenly my balance is set to all zero's......I was shocked and first I thought it must have been hacked or some kind of mistake and then I read the text they write saying they cancelled several bets because of some rediculous rule that I am "value betting"?
So I check my betting history and see all kind of bets that are now suddenly cancelled in retrospect. Surprise, surprise, only winning bets are cancelled and never losing bets....
It is completely rediculous that they think they can just randomly decide to cancel bets in hindsight. If this is fair then they can basically do anything they want to any customer whenever they like.....this is a totally unfair unethical practice!
As I said, I have been an active customer there for 11 months and always used the same betting style. I am not doing value betting, whatever that may be. I simply watch the NBA and MLB games and when I feel like a team is going to win I place the bet, just like any other gambler would do. And why was my betting style never a problem when I was losing so much? And now one good run is suddenly not acceptable for them? Even when I am in a big minus altogether over the lifetime of my account, they simply decide to steal my own money. If I am doing "value betting" for 11 months over a sample of about 2000 bets in total, how can it be that I am not even in the plus? How much bigger proof do they need that this is not "value betting"?

I am FLABBERGASTED by this decision. I knew Wintomato does not have a great reputation but because they treated me well for the past 11 months I thought they would be fair. Obviously I will never bet with them anymore and I would strongly advice anyone reading this not to open an account there.
They only welcome people who keep on losing forever, if you go on even a small run they will simply confiscate your funds.

And as rediculous as their rule is, it is not even listed in their general T&C: https://wintomato.com/en/terms-and-conditions
After a lot of looking around I eventually found out it's sneakily hidden somewhere in their Sports Rules right in between rules about weather abandonments etc, which is very shady and not a place where you can expect customers to look for such a rule. But that is not even the point, the point is that this is a very widely interpretable rule and basically gives them freedom to take away any winnings they like in hindsight for the full period of a month.

IF they're gonna void bets then they have to void ALL my bets. Not just the winnings ones and not just the recent ones. Then please void all of my bets since I joined and in that case I would be getting even a lot more back than my balance was because I was still in minus. But ofcourse.....they decide that when I was losing I was placing normal bets and when I go on a small winning run, then those are suddenly "value bets". And of that recent period, of course the losers were fair losers, only the winning bets were the value bets! Haha, if I was not hurting so much right now, it would even be laughable!

In hindsight, there was one alarming thing that happened to me back in September, when I was betting on an MLB game and won a bet with odds of 8 and they decided to randomly take away 9K USD worth of winnings because "the odd was too high" even though their sports betting provider settled the bet as normally won and all other books had completely comparable odds. But after a few days of discussion they decided to give me back this 9K they took away so I assumed they were reasonable people after all.
But now, 2 months later, this happened.....I hope Wintomato can still come to their senses and realize that this is completely bullshit and unethical.

Wintomato, I promise you it's better in the long run to be ethical and fair and build up a good reputation, like for example Sportsbet or Stake have done. This pays off much more in the long run than short term stealing will bring you. Now if you do not fix this issue you will have lasting reputation damage. Think hard about this!

Here are the screenshots of my account:
Confiscation:


Randomly cancelled bets in hindsight:








A screenshot of my account balance 2 days ago before the confiscation:


And here proof that I was already betting at Wintomato from December 2021: