Resolving between persons | Bitcointalksearch.org

greatscott

newbie

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Quote from: BitcoinCyberStore.com on June 09, 2011, 08:25:22 PM

Seems this could have easily been avoided if people used their PGP keys and signed contracts that detailed the scope of the transaction.

Even GPG aside (or with GPG), a simple way to detect this would be to have the buyer/seller verify their agreement over a simple email exchange.

The (real) buyer should send an email to the (real) seller's paypal payment address, including their receiving bitcoin address as a confirmation before actually sending the funds to the seller's paypal. The (real) seller would then see that the bitcoin receiving addresses don't match. Actually, email aside, I think you can send notes along with your paypal payment to the seller.

Fiyasko

legendary

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Okey Dokey Lokey

Quote from: BitcoinCyberStore.com on June 09, 2011, 08:25:22 PM

Seems this could have easily been avoided if people used their PGP keys and signed contracts that detailed the scope of the transaction.

Well. Thats what it's there for, If you dont use it you get fucked and all i can say is "you kinda fucked yourself yo"

BitcoinCyberStore.com

newbie

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Seems this could have easily been avoided if people used their PGP keys and signed contracts that detailed the scope of the transaction.

JusticeForYou

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 271

As was noted in the #bitcoin-court (hehe).

Jacker224 sent money to an unregistered, unidentified Nick. Not that would have prevented this scam, but that i could have been slowed down.

I just recently moderated an escrow between 2 nicks for a pretty substantial amount. After both identifying, we went to PM mode. One of the participants lost connection and came back online. And then asked for the BTC, I had made him re-authenticate. Before releasing the BTC.

This isn't a place for the faint hearted. Buyer beware, Seller beware. If something goes wrong or you are worried, back out, there is no harm.

This an semi-advanced scam. And am glad it was brought out.

However, buying using trusted escrow, the BTC would have been protected. A resolution could have been accomplished.

In this case, Jacker224's BTC would have been safe. Jacker224 would have know the BTC was there and his upon the OK to release from the Buyer.

Fiyasko

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1001

Okey Dokey Lokey

Ho
Ly

Fuck.....
Run noobs run, Your all in danger, and now im probly a target.

0x6763

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 0

If the theory is correct, the scammer is pork_, aka hondura, aka honduras, aka pork_honduras.

pork_ = buyer - http://paste.pocoo.org/show/403595/
hondura(s) = seller - http://paste.pocoo.org/show/403594/

IP addresses: 65.49.14.*

Here's a log of a conversation with the scammer and KCanini that just happened moments before I'm posting this: http://pastebin.com/RhSdEmxJ

Unfortunately I don't see anything where JackH (jacker224) directly communicated with any of them in my logs. Obviously at least part of it would have been PM, if not entirely PM.

EDIT: Other nicks in my logs (which don't go back very far at this point) using IP addresses in that same range are:
titi
Miner-TE
guest1234
bridgehead
mazik

grepped log showing those nicks: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/403613/

kgo

hero member

Activity: 548

Merit: 500

More specificially:

;;ident username

If gribble tells you the person can't be identified, they could be anyone. A username means nothing.

And then

;;getrating username

Or even better:

;;gettrust username

if you have some ratings of your own.

JackH

sr. member

Activity: 381

Merit: 255

Both me and tiner messed up, and all this happened. I guess this has to be delt with between me and tiner now. Thank you all for helping collecting IP's and identifying my super bad memory in the h___ = hondura so that we could identify with him pork_

tiner, please contact me on IRC and we can talk about what we should do about all the money between us.

EvanR

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

I thought I had it!

Continuing to think it through to see if anymore water leaks out.

Be careful when scammers propose a wild possibility that would explain their innocence. Occams razor!

And do not trade with people that are not registered.

stabaho

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Hate to hear this happened. Everyone should remember not to do large transactions via paypal with low rated and no rated people.

seventoes

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Quote from: bitcoinTrader on June 09, 2011, 12:07:03 PM

Quote from: KCanini on June 09, 2011, 12:03:42 PM

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: " ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without sending ever him the BTC

But how does jacker224 contacts tiner?
Do you mean scammer logs in with tiner as nick (and not h___)?

Wow, that totally fits. I wouldn't have put it together, but I'll be sure to watch for stuff like this in the future. Nice eye, KCanini!

speeder

hero member

Activity: 994

Merit: 501

PredX - AI-Powered Prediction Market

I am inclined to agree with KCani (whoever he is).

And I am thinking now, that the guy that pulled that is clearly clever.

It is kinda obvious on the conversation, that both Tiner and Jack were distressed, with neither of them knowing what was going on... Noone is stupid enough to scam someone after receiving PayPal (ie: What Jack claims that Tiner did), and Jack behavior, putting his reputation in line (he is not a 1 post guy with no rating on OTC), shows that he really believe to be scammed.

Whoever is Mr. Pork_, he is a genius. (too bad that is for evil).

sublimnl

member

Activity: 96

Merit: 10

Quote from: KCanini on June 09, 2011, 12:03:42 PM

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: " ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without ever sending him the BTC
10. jacker224 never receives the BTC, so he initiates a PayPal dispute with tiner, causing this whole argument to erupt.
11. The scammer sits back and watches jacker224 and tiner argue about which one of them was the scammer.

Wow... that's a well played MITM attack if that is the case...

KCanini

newbie

Activity: 2

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Quote from: bitcoinTrader on June 09, 2011, 12:07:03 PM

But how does jacker224 contacts tiner?
Do you mean scammer logs in with tiner as nick (and not h___)?

jacker224 and tiner never talked to each other until the PayPal dispute was filed (they both admit this). The scammer never logged in as tiner, he logged in as h___ while he was dealing with jacker224.

ensign_lee

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 500

JackH is obviously a troll / scammer. Close this thread and move on plz.

bitcoinTrader

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: KCanini on June 09, 2011, 12:03:42 PM

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: " ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without sending ever him the BTC

But how does jacker224 contacts tiner?
Do you mean scammer logs in with tiner as nick (and not h___)?

KCanini

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

It seems you have both been the victim of a very clever and well-executed scam. To give away the ending, it was a man-in-the-middle attack by a 3rd person. The scam was so good, in fact, that no one here seems to be able to recognize what actually happened. Sit back and listen as I recreate the scene:

0. The scammer (pork_) recognizes that #bitcoin-otc has a very serious flaw and sets out to exploit it to make a quick 20BTC for free.
1. The scammer (pork_) advertises that he wants to buy BTC on the #bitcoin-otc channel, and tiner contacts him about a sale
2. The scammer (pork_) and tiner agree to the terms of the sale, and tiner gives him his PayPal address so pork_ can send the payment
3. This part is crucial: The scammer (pork_) now has a limited amount of time to find a buyer to complete the scam. To give himself some time, he says: " ill be a few minutes"
4. The scammer now goes into the channel using a different nick (let's call it "h___"), and advertises that he wants to sell some BTC for cheap (to get a buyer quickly)
5. jacker224 contacts the scammer (h___) and offers to buy the BTC
6. The scammer (h___) tells jacker224 to send the money to tiner's paypal address, and jacker224 does so
7. The scammer (pork_) tells tiner that he sent the payment, when in actuality it was jacker224 who sent the payment
8. tiner verifies that he has received the money, and sends the BTC to the scammer (pork_). As far as tiner is concerned, the transaction was 100% legit.
9. The scammer (h___) leaves his conversation with jacker224 without ever sending him the BTC
10. jacker224 never receives the BTC, so he initiates a PayPal dispute with tiner, causing this whole argument to erupt.
11. The scammer sits back and watches jacker224 and tiner argue about which one of them was the scammer.

wol-va-rine

newbie

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it's just a coincidence that you registered two minutes after tiner logged off, and then started posting...?

dude...

Fiyasko

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1001

Okey Dokey Lokey

Hohohohoho, I am taking my fucking foot outta this door.
PEACE OUT

EvanR

newbie

Activity: 40

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jacker225 and pork_ are effectively the same person. jacker225 claims he is not pork_, pork_ is no where to be found. Different IP addresses on freenode (one is webchat). The evidence above suggests they are the same, and jacker225 has no records or other evidence to show they are different. jacker225 and pork_ are effectively the same person.

seventoes

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

jacker was in IRC earlier trying to pit us against Tiner. It's fairly obvious what's going on here, either jacker is in some massive coincidence with someone pretending to be tiner to play off of his good rating, or jacker is the scammer, trying to shame tiner into giving him more money. In any case, it's pretty obvious from the chat log that jacker posted that he's being a complete douche about the whole situation. Jacker didn't even try to help solve the issue in that log, he passed up every opportuntity that tiner gave him to prove what was going on.

EvanR

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

*Puts pipe in mouth*

Here's how it went down.

tiner sold bitcoins to pork_ basically without a hitch. tiner got 400 USD from paypal [email protected] at 20:30 BST. This is the same time that pork_ said he sent the paypal. pork_ paid tiner from [email protected]

Then jacker225 filed a paypal undelivered goods dispute at [email protected] (not fraud) and put the money into limbo, probably permanently. He claims that he bought coins from tiner that never arrived. tiner never met jacker225 before the log below. jacker225 claims that he never heard of pork_ and he is the one who sent the 400.

Therefore jacker225 is pork_, a paypal scammer with address [email protected], logs below.

https://i.imgur.com/Mu7W2.jpg
http://pastebin.com/XJwz5PNz
http://pastebin.com/JTnDZxdZ

Fiyasko

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1001

Okey Dokey Lokey

Quote from: ?? on ??

I sold 15 btcs to Tiner some days ago using paypal and everything went super smoothly. This guy is really nice and comprehensive. I'm having a really hard time to believe he could scam someone (someone not even registered). Also, Tiner asked for proofs that jacker never sent...

Am I the only one that thinks Jacker is actually the scammer?

~~cocotton~~, You are Tiner

So Tiner.

SHUT THE FUCK UP

Charge him back, And tell paypal he's conducting activity with bitcoins, This will get his account frozen

wol-va-rine

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

I sold 15 btcs to Tiner some days ago using paypal and everything went super smoothly. This guy is really nice and comprehensive. I'm having a really hard time to believe he could scam someone (someone not even registered). Also, Tiner asked for proofs that jacker never sent...

Am I the only one that thinks Jacker is actually the scammer?

kinda weird that tiner logs off, and two minutes later you register and then make a post minutes after that in this thread, no...?

Garrett Burgwardt

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 256

Never use paypal:

http://thebitcoinsun.com/post/2011/06/05/The-Paypal-Problem

tiner

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

I don't want to bring this dispute onto the forums but it looks like it's happening anyway.

My version of the story is:
I sold btc to an unrated and unregistered user named pork_ for ppusd (foolishly).
I received the money and sent him the btc and the transaction is complete.
Then I noticed that a dispute has been filed. I asked the user to contact me in irc.
jacker224 contacts me claiming he sent money for btc and didn't receive it. He claims that he has no idea who pork_ is.
I have only ever sold btc to one person. I could contact all of the users that have rated me to prove this. Therefore pork_ and jacker224 must be the same person. Why is he pretending to be someone else?

jacker224 is trying to tarnish my reputation to extort more money out of me. I am an honest trader with many successful transactions, and a high rating. I can get other traders to vouch for me if need be and I can post chat logs of my transaction with the user pork_, the only person I have ever sold btc to on #bitcoin-otc.

The lesson is: never sell btc for ppusd to low rated users.

edit: If possible could the mods at least move this topic from the Marketplace forum. This is not the place for disputes.

JackH

sr. member

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Resolving

davout

legendary

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1davout

chargeback, rate, stop the drama

JackH

sr. member

Activity: 381

Merit: 255

Resolving

Topic: Resolving between persons (Read 6623 times)