Topic: Reversible crypto transaction is no more impossible (Read 311 times)
I hope it's soon for all transactions on all exchangers. because the most vulnerable thing is wrong address, and just one letter can be fatal when there is no cancel transaction feature when the transaction has been confirmed. so, it will be an amazing development in the crypto world when it's finished.
I've always thought that reversible crypto payment or transactions is impossible but now not anymore, an Israel based startup project called Kirobo is looking to change the impossible to possible.
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Won't reversible to transactions be for more prone to scams/fraud? Like, say I provided some service to a person B and person B paid me alright but later turn out he was a scammer after a few days he decided to reverse the transaction when I was not paying attention to that address won't that lead to more fraud?
Reversible transaction will lower trust level in the network
I think many don't get the point, I believe what the original post is talking about will work perfectly but many aren't getting the real point there, if you send out a coin to your friend you will have to share a code with him too before the coin can get confirmed in the blockchain and appear in your wallet as received, within the limited time if the code isn't inserted the coin will go back into the senders address, it makes lotta sense I think this is not an advantage but a disadvantage of the technology that the project is building. Transactions must be irreversible or there is room for manipulation. And no one will approve of that.
True, would anyone want to use crypto on a blockchain that can turn back or reverse your transaction or your partner transaction? How anyone would consider this is an advantage is beyond me.
And who will be the justice and say you have the truth and the transaction should be returned? Satoshi Nakamoto created a smart decentralized trustless protocol, if a transaction is confirmed, then it is not reversible and you don´t need care about such problems. Everyone has experience with scammy buyer or sellers on PayPal that are trying to reverse a transaction even the other party fulfilled the conditions.
I've always thought that reversible crypto payment or transactions is impossible but now not anymore, an Israel based startup project called Kirobo is looking to change the impossible to possible.
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Nice one, if the implementation can be possible then it's going to be good for everyone because many assets have been lost due to irreversible transactions on block chains. But I don't think this is possible yet, one still need to be careful with transactions until this is fully implemented.
I was trying to see how the company can do this but the article didn't say much in that regard .
If they can reverse already confirmed transaction without doing it from the Blockchain then I guess they'll use a centralized setup to make the reversal possible?
As I understand that is a service that there is a reversible transaction, it doesn't mean that the confirmed transaction will be reversible. If they can reverse already confirmed transaction without doing it from the Blockchain then I guess they'll use a centralized setup to make the reversal possible?
I didn't fully understand yet but I'm trying to dig research about it. I guess, in my theoretical explanation, this might be a possible use of being a fraud, it looks like they are the third party that anytime if the recipient and sender have an agreement and if there is an error the transaction can be reversible.
Well, I hope this will not use in a bad way in the future. Let's continue the decentralized nature of cryptocurrencies. I prefer to irreversible transactions.
Reversible transaction will lower trust level in the network
Exactly, if the transaction were reversed, I believe they would lose credibility and many would fear the project. That is the reason why projects never perform reverse transactions of scammer in this market 
I was trying to see how the company can do this but the article didn't say much in that regard .
If they can reverse already confirmed transaction without doing it from the Blockchain then I guess they'll use a centralized setup to make the reversal possible?
If they can reverse already confirmed transaction without doing it from the Blockchain then I guess they'll use a centralized setup to make the reversal possible?
Reversible transaction will lower trust level in the network
Why can reduce the level of trust in the network? what are the obstacles that can cause a decrease in confidence in it? Try to explain about this, because I really do not know about it. 
Although, transactions has been reversed in the past, when something bad happened to Bitcoin network and from that moment to this day nothing of such can be done to reverse any transaction on the Blockchain. But, if this can be a reality then so be it. Hope to see some efforts put into something good that will help reverse stolen funds from hackers or scammers around the ecosystem.
I think this is not an advantage but a disadvantage of the technology that the project is building. Transactions must be irreversible or there is room for manipulation. And no one will approve of that.
It should be clear to discuss about crypto or bitcoin only.
With crypto, yes there are possible reversible transactions especially if the cryptocurrency you are talking about is a centralized cryptocurrency. Like ETH, Ripple, or any other same crypto projects.
With bitcoin, it is irreversible in theory and in reality it is almost irreversible. Reversibility can only be gotten if one pool has more than 51% of the total hashrates on the network, that is difficult. And the pool need to maintain such huge hashrate long enough. On bitcoin network, with long confirmed transactions, more than 30 confirmations, it is safe enough to say they are irreversible.
With crypto, yes there are possible reversible transactions especially if the cryptocurrency you are talking about is a centralized cryptocurrency. Like ETH, Ripple, or any other same crypto projects.
With bitcoin, it is irreversible in theory and in reality it is almost irreversible. Reversibility can only be gotten if one pool has more than 51% of the total hashrates on the network, that is difficult. And the pool need to maintain such huge hashrate long enough. On bitcoin network, with long confirmed transactions, more than 30 confirmations, it is safe enough to say they are irreversible.
Reversible transaction will lower trust level in the network
Doesn't sound like good news for me. There is a reason why cryptocurrency transactions are irreversible. The feature was added, because scammers were making use of the reversibility with payment mediums such as Paypal. Now if we make cryptocurrency transactions similar to those with PayPal, then what will be the difference between the two payment mediums?
You guys really don't read any other post in a discussion do you.... Really...
I've made an effort and actually surfed to the service and read some press releases, and i concluded that this service is NOT about making transactions reversible but it's merely a service that used a clever workaround to make an irreversible transaction LOOK reversible for a very small window in time.
I've already posted my findings twice, but nobody seems to be interested in a discussion, everybody just keeps blurting out the first things that comes to their mind, without reading any other post, without putting in a very small amount of effort.
All in all, this service is just a workaround, i wouldn't use it very often myself, but i do see a potential usecase...
Doesn't sound like good news for me. There is a reason why cryptocurrency transactions are irreversible. The feature was added, because scammers were making use of the reversibility with payment mediums such as Paypal. Now if we make cryptocurrency transactions similar to those with PayPal, then what will be the difference between the two payment mediums?
Reversible transaction will lower trust level in the network
It should be clear to discuss about crypto or bitcoin only.
With crypto, yes there are possible reversible transactions especially if the cryptocurrency you are talking about is a centralized cryptocurrency. Like ETH, Ripple, or any other same crypto projects.
With bitcoin, it is irreversible in theory and in reality it is almost irreversible. Reversibility can only be gotten if one pool has more than 51% of the total hashrates on the network, that is difficult. And the pool need to maintain such huge hashrate long enough. On bitcoin network, with long confirmed transactions, more than 30 confirmations, it is safe enough to say they are irreversible.
With crypto, yes there are possible reversible transactions especially if the cryptocurrency you are talking about is a centralized cryptocurrency. Like ETH, Ripple, or any other same crypto projects.
With bitcoin, it is irreversible in theory and in reality it is almost irreversible. Reversibility can only be gotten if one pool has more than 51% of the total hashrates on the network, that is difficult. And the pool need to maintain such huge hashrate long enough. On bitcoin network, with long confirmed transactions, more than 30 confirmations, it is safe enough to say they are irreversible.
I think this is not an advantage but a disadvantage of the technology that the project is building. Transactions must be irreversible or there is room for manipulation. And no one will approve of that.
Well, a lot of people missed my first post (apparently), and they started a big fuss about changes in the bitcoin codebase, or even go as far as dragging erc20 tokens in the mix.
i still couldn't find any real whitepaper (not that i spent that much time looking for it tough), but like i said before: this company is just developing a workaround....
Basically, right now, when i pay someone for a good or service, it basically boils down to:
What this company is doing, IF i understand this correctly:
At least, without a some clear documentation, this is what i believe the workflow more or less looks like... No hacks, no bitcoin code changes, no craptokens,.... Just a company that has developed a reasonably clever way of having an undo button that can be used as long as the receiver didn't broadcast the transaction.
I, for one, think this is a clever trick... I have no problems with this, but i don't think i'd use the service quite that often tough... Maybe when i'm paying a newbie and i'm not 100% sure he/she gave me the correct address...
i still couldn't find any real whitepaper (not that i spent that much time looking for it tough), but like i said before: this company is just developing a workaround....
Basically, right now, when i pay someone for a good or service, it basically boils down to:
- The seller provides me with an address
- My wallet software creates a transaction, using unspent outputs funding my own addresses, creating a new unspent output funding the seller's address
- My wallet software signs said transaction
- My wallet software broadcasts said transaction
- As soon as the transaction reaches the first node, it's allmost irreversible... Sure, there are some tricks i can pull as long as it's unconfirmed... But those tricks are hard, and they work only untill the first confirmation...
What this company is doing, IF i understand this correctly:
- The seller provides me with an address
- My wallet software creates a transaction, using unspent outputs funding my own addresses, creating a new unspent output funding the seller's address
- My wallet software signs said transaction
- My wallet contacts this company's server and saves an encrypted version of my transaction onto the company's server
- The seller receives a decryption key?
- Using this key, the seller can retrieve and decrypt the UNBROADCASTED transaction and verify it
- If the transaction's value is ok, and if it's indeed funding one of the seller's addresses, the seller now broadcasts the transaction? There's probably some automation involved so the wallet actually does the checking (and potentially even retrieving and decrypting the transaction from the previous step?)
- If something goes wrong, the buyer can always delete the unbroadcasted transaction from the server, as long as the seller hasn't decrypted and broadcasted it.... This way, the illusion of an undo button is created
At least, without a some clear documentation, this is what i believe the workflow more or less looks like... No hacks, no bitcoin code changes, no craptokens,.... Just a company that has developed a reasonably clever way of having an undo button that can be used as long as the receiver didn't broadcast the transaction.
I, for one, think this is a clever trick... I have no problems with this, but i don't think i'd use the service quite that often tough... Maybe when i'm paying a newbie and i'm not 100% sure he/she gave me the correct address...
I've always thought that reversible crypto payment or transactions is impossible but now not anymore, an Israel based startup project called Kirobo is looking to change the impossible to possible.
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Hi guys my name is Asaf Naim and I am the CEO of the company,
Attached is some material and links
you Can send me a personal message on telegram @kiroboasi
when you send a message please write to me that you came through this forum because I receive hundreds of inquiries a day and this way I can respond to a message from you
Kirobo’s security layer provides privacy enabled, retrievable transactions starting with Bitcoin users on Ledger’s hardware wallet. The platform is secured against a brute force attack and is also non-custodial, meaning users control their funds every step of the way.
https://kirobo.io - Company website
https://safer.kirobo.me/welcome - Kirobo Safe Transfer deployed on the Bitcoin mainnet
https://testsafer.kirobo.me/welcome - Kirobo Safe Transfer deployed on the Bitcoin testnet
https://kirobo.io/support/ - Support
https://kirobo.io/support/knowledge-base/audit-report/ - Security Audit
I think we need to see a white paper of this project let's know how they plan to run this, have they done one that was successfully cancelled? These are all what we need to know before we apportion any praise. And what benefit will this be for cryptocurency at Large. ? What we actually want is for more people to use crypto in many ways , transacy cancellation won't be a big deal.
Some people have the time to stress, but not me. This is a long process just because you want to be able to reverse. And moreover if this method is used you’re putting the person at the receiving end at risk. The only way to solve this problem is to stop doing business with people you don’t know and trust, just stay clear and only deal with people who you’re sure are legit. And in the case of sending to the wrong address, seriously, I just don’t understand people that make that kind of mistake, what the hell would cause you to make that kind of mistake? Were you copying that address one letter after the other?
Because, as far as I know, when I’m sending money to people, they copy and send me their address and I copy it from there and paste in my wallet (sometimes I check if it’s accurate, which is not necessary hundred percent of the times). So, what is the big deal?
Because, as far as I know, when I’m sending money to people, they copy and send me their address and I copy it from there and paste in my wallet (sometimes I check if it’s accurate, which is not necessary hundred percent of the times). So, what is the big deal?
One of the main feature of blockchain is the irreversible transaction, if this is lost then it could be a minus to it, some people saved documents and records on it because they believe the documents are immutable so reversing it means all these benefits are lost.
@bitmover After reverting the transaction the stolen 70 million USD returned back to the owner? Wow that's cool, I'm just hearing this for the first time though, I don't know that it's possible to revert transactions, I will surely wait for Kirobo project and see its outcome
This is not cool. Irreversibly oftransactions is a strong point in blockchain technology. Ethereum made a huge turnaround to bypass that. A blockchain with reversible transactions would simple be a total disaster. Centralization issues basically
Who would decide which transaction to reverse and which not?
Someone could just reverse the transactions of YOUR funds.
It is still the same it was before. If you are using their platform (which never means crypto), you can use their service. Did they change tje codebase of bitcoin, ethereum? Not at all. They developed a centralize platform where you can get safe transactions. That's all.
I'm guessing the project will work on a separate blockchain, not erc20 or other meaning the reversible transactions will work perfectly, how is this not great? Even if it's centralized it still make sense that most decentralized crypto projects 
I've always thought that reversible crypto payment or transactions is impossible but now not anymore, an Israel based startup project called Kirobo is looking to change the impossible to possible.
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
I have read about this on another thread and came to know that this startup is implementing an OTP kind of feature before making the transfers.Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
The sender will first initiate a transfer on the third party's interface and then send it to the receiver and once the receiver confirms the security key then the transfer will be done. The sender will be able to reverse the transaction until the receiver approves the transaction.
So the coins are basically still there in the third party's interface.
I don't recommend to use this kind of service because it involves a third party and why would we destroy the motive of bitcoin and use a third party instead ? What would be the difference between banks and this startup then ?
It is still the same it was before. If you are using their platform (which never means crypto), you can use their service. Did they change tje codebase of bitcoin, ethereum? Not at all. They developed a centralize platform where you can get safe transactions. That's all.
@bitmover After reverting the transaction the stolen 70 million USD returned back to the owner? Wow that's cool, I'm just hearing this for the first time though, I don't know that it's possible to revert transactions, I will surely wait for Kirobo project and see its outcome
It's not awesome. Can you imagine how does PayPal's reverse transaction works? do you find it awesome? the scammers are taking advantage of it and that's why many reports are being done on their platform. Kirobo is still looking to change it, meaning that there's no complete result from that plan of theirs. And whether they make it, changing the protocol for cryptos which has been known for decade will create a lot of ruckus and implications for their users. I believe through their platform, they can make it but not wholly to the broadcasted tx on blockchain.
This is a good idea coming to the blockchain space as it will help to curb some mistakes which might occur due to negligence and so on. But on the other hand, what if a fraudulent user, uses it to his own advantage that is, sending to another user then requesting for it back with baseless excuses. However, this is just my thoughts and I believe the team will do everything possible to ensure the interest of all parties involved in the transaction is protected. Lastly, this is also another good proof that the blockchain space will only keep expanding, improving and becoming more innovative despite all odds.
The best example you can think of "reversible transaction" is Ethereum fork in July 2016.
After a big hack in DAO, due to an exploit in a smartcontract, caused the losses of about 70million USD.
Vitalik and the community vote to , in practice, revert the transaction:
After a big hack in DAO, due to an exploit in a smartcontract, caused the losses of about 70million USD.
Vitalik and the community vote to , in practice, revert the transaction:
Quote
https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/guides/the-dao-the-hack-the-soft-fork-and-the-hard-fork/
This hard fork had the sole function of returning all the Ether taken from the DAO to a refund smart contract. The new contract would have only one function: withdraw. The DAO token holders could request to be sent 1 ETH for every 100 DAO. The investors that had paid more than 1 ETH for 100 DAO could request the difference from the original address. This proposal generated a lot of controversy among the Ethereum community, which was split into 2 groups: hard fork supporters and non-supporters.[]/quote]
So, it would take a hard fork to really reverse something in blockchian.
This hard fork had the sole function of returning all the Ether taken from the DAO to a refund smart contract. The new contract would have only one function: withdraw. The DAO token holders could request to be sent 1 ETH for every 100 DAO. The investors that had paid more than 1 ETH for 100 DAO could request the difference from the original address. This proposal generated a lot of controversy among the Ethereum community, which was split into 2 groups: hard fork supporters and non-supporters.[]/quote]
So, it would take a hard fork to really reverse something in blockchian.
I don't think it would be a difficult task to make crypto transaction reversible but is that what we want?
Irreversible nature of crypto is considered to be a pros of cryptocurrency by many though it may have sometimes led to accidents.
It would always be better to have options as cryptocurrency are now a broad genre of blockchain based currencies.
There is not big with this use case but it's a very clever idea feature that will make it insanely hard for hackers to steal funds without your involvement, just think about it, I wish many developers can come up with rare use case like this one, I will definitely put a tracker on this project to see how it goes. Irreversible nature of crypto is considered to be a pros of cryptocurrency by many though it may have sometimes led to accidents.
It would always be better to have options as cryptocurrency are now a broad genre of blockchain based currencies.
I don't think it would be a difficult task to make crypto transaction reversible but is that what we want?
Irreversible nature of crypto is considered to be a pros of cryptocurrency by many though it may have sometimes led to accidents.
It would always be better to have options as cryptocurrency are now a broad genre of blockchain based currencies.
Irreversible nature of crypto is considered to be a pros of cryptocurrency by many though it may have sometimes led to accidents.
It would always be better to have options as cryptocurrency are now a broad genre of blockchain based currencies.
Hm, love the idea, the fund isn't really yours until you insert a key or password that can be known between the sender and the receiver, sounds good enough for me, is there any old project that have this use case feature? I don't think so
Nope... Transactions are still irreversible, even with this platform...
There is no whitepaper available, but after reading a couple press releases (with very limited technical details), it looks like they just require the receiver to validate the transaction funding his wallet before said transaction is actually broadcasted. This way, it becomes harder for a hacker, copy/paste virus or a simple mistake to happen (since the sender does no longer just broadcast the transaction, but basically forces the receiver to validate before the transaction is broadcasted). If the validation fails, it's like nothing happens.
But nothing happening =/= reversibility
It's just a clever workaround that gives the impression of reversibility...
There is no whitepaper available, but after reading a couple press releases (with very limited technical details), it looks like they just require the receiver to validate the transaction funding his wallet before said transaction is actually broadcasted. This way, it becomes harder for a hacker, copy/paste virus or a simple mistake to happen (since the sender does no longer just broadcast the transaction, but basically forces the receiver to validate before the transaction is broadcasted). If the validation fails, it's like nothing happens.
But nothing happening =/= reversibility
It's just a clever workaround that gives the impression of reversibility...
I've always thought that reversible crypto payment or transactions is impossible but now not anymore, an Israel based startup project called Kirobo is looking to change the impossible to possible.
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
Kirobo has recently established a new method of reversing what were once considered to be “irreversible” bitcoin and cryptocurrency transactions. The method known as “receivable transfer” allows a person sending digital currency across the blockchain to another address to cancel the transaction granted they sent the money to an incorrect location.
https://www.livebitcoinnews.com/kirobo-introduces-new-reversible-crypto-transaction-technology/
Sounds awesome right? We still have more surprising use case that you can never think of, I hope developers can start using their spare time on something better
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