Right to Work | Bitcointalksearch.org

grantbdev

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Quote from: grondilu on November 19, 2012, 06:45:00 PM

Quote from: grantbdev on November 19, 2012, 06:26:14 PM

Quote from: kokojie on November 19, 2012, 12:30:03 AM

Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

But it is a condition of a voluntary contract.

Please explain.

You are not forced to work, giving up your labor is a voluntary transaction. On a purely Non-Aggression Principle basis, I see no grounds to support right to work laws. Workers may not want to be part of a union, but if it is part of a contract they voluntarily agreed to it is not a form of coercion.

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: grantbdev on November 19, 2012, 06:26:14 PM

Quote from: kokojie on November 19, 2012, 12:30:03 AM

Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

But it is a condition of a voluntary contract. I don't see libertarians supporting other sorts of 'protections' for workers. Mandating company uniforms infringes upon my individual liberty to choose how I dress at work.

It is rather unusual to see people who are usually so liberty oriented and against protectionism support such measures.

I must conclude that they grossly underestimate the importance of unions.

grondilu

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Quote from: grantbdev on November 19, 2012, 06:26:14 PM

Quote from: kokojie on November 19, 2012, 12:30:03 AM

Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

But it is a condition of a voluntary contract.

Please explain.

grantbdev

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Activity: 292

Merit: 250

Quote from: kokojie on November 19, 2012, 12:30:03 AM

Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

But it is a condition of a voluntary contract. I don't see libertarians supporting other sorts of 'protections' for workers. Mandating company uniforms infringes upon my individual liberty to choose how I dress at work.

benjamindees

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It's an interesting question of what types of contracts should be considered valid. I think the general idea is that contracts cannot override the rights of third parties. But, you're right. That opens up a whole other can of worms that is not necessarily compatible with libertarianism. "Right to work" is really more of a right-wing idea.

Littleshop

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Quote from: layyen on November 19, 2012, 12:39:31 PM

I will never understand why anybody want, or try to force right to work ..

if somebody needs your work.. he will offer this job..

if somebody dont need your work, every normal thinking people know, there is no reason for this job postition...

a lot of states are getting stranger and stranger Huh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

The title of the law can confuse people. The idea is that you have the right NOT to join the union. Unions are much weaker in right to work states because people can not join the union and still benefit from the unions bargaining power. States with right to work laws have more job growth then states without. Non right to work stats have more union jobs and generally have higher pay and benefits that non-union jobs of the same level.

layyen

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I will never understand why anybody want, or try to force right to work ..

if somebody needs your work.. he will offer this job..

if somebody dont need your work, every normal thinking people know, there is no reason for this job postition...

a lot of states are getting stranger and stranger Huh

justusranvier

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Quote from: stochastic on November 19, 2012, 01:01:19 AM

I am not anti-union, but I am suspicious over any monopoly.

Ironically many people who claim to oppose monopolies also endorse increasing the power of the largest monopoly of all.

stochastic

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Quote from: myrkul on November 19, 2012, 12:42:27 AM

Quote from: kokojie on November 19, 2012, 12:30:03 AM

Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

I think he's starting to get it... "forced to" anything is un-libertarian.

The laws are not a perfect solution - no law is. But it's an attempt to protect unions from themselves... to prevent the sort of thing that happened to Hostess.

I once read that the truest liberty is the liberty to enslave others. Only tyrants can be truly free. For the rest of us, liberty is limited to the equal rights of others, as Jefferson said.

As for right to work. I never understood why a union gets to have a monopoly over the workers of some company. I am not anti-union, but I am suspicious over any monopoly.

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: kokojie on November 19, 2012, 12:30:03 AM

Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

I think he's starting to get it... "forced to" anything is un-libertarian.

The laws are not a perfect solution - no law is. But it's an attempt to protect unions from themselves... to prevent the sort of thing that happened to Hostess.

kokojie

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Because being forced to join a union and pay dues is um... un-libertarian?

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: grantbdev on November 18, 2012, 04:18:17 PM

Why do so many self-proclaimed libertarians and leading figures such as Ron Paul support Right to Work laws? It seems to me to be inherently anti-libertarian, and I don't buy the "it results in more individual freedom for workers" argument.

Now, I know you're coming from a more pro-union perspective, and to a point, I agree, unions are important to ensure workers get a fair shake. But just as important, are the strike-breakers and non-union workers. They provide a downward pressure on wages that keeps the union shop from going too far above market value for a particular labor. A closed shop, which is what these laws are intended to prevent, will allow the wage to far exceed market value, causing the company to lose money, either by paying too much on wages, or by having to raise the price of it's product too much and being unable to sell it.

Of course, the laws are inherently anti-libertarian, in that they prevent businesses and unions from engaging in voluntary behavior (setting up a closed shop), and I would prefer the market be allowed to prevent closed shops by driving those that use them out of business when the union demands wages too high to support.

dank

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You cannot kill love

Then why'd you do it? That's what's funny. Stupidity, lacking a higher understanding, is funny, that's why kid laugh at each other and judge each other.

You become smart by becoming aware, thinking of the past, memories to learn from it. The past does not matter, what only matters is now. And even then, nothing matters.

dank

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You cannot kill love

Funny things we do to keep us busy, to keep us away from yourself, away from god.

grantbdev

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Merit: 250

Why do so many self-proclaimed libertarians and leading figures such as Ron Paul support Right to Work laws? It seems to me to be inherently anti-libertarian, and I don't buy the "it results in more individual freedom for workers" argument.

Topic: Right to Work (Read 1056 times)