Well, a few thousand people do use Ripple and Scrypt or not, Bitcoin users can be deanonymized too.
Mixing might be possible with IOU redemption and reissuance (e.g. I send Bitstamp some BTC.Bitstamp and receive some USD.Bitstamp later, maybe to a different account), I haven't thought too much about XRP mixing.
Topic: Ripple as a service (not coin) (Read 1762 times)
Nobody will use ripple, it is not anonymous and there is a fee to using multiple addresses. And you can't mix with trust lines.
Bitcoin with Scrypt would be perfect.
Bitcoin with Scrypt would be perfect.
A gateway will have a lot of (currently dozens, in the future probably hundreds) of incoming trust lines and 0 outgoing ones. Mutual trust lines are really rare and would make these 2 accounts stick out a lot.
It might be part of some limited deniability scheme, certainly no anonymity though in my opinion.
It might be part of some limited deniability scheme, certainly no anonymity though in my opinion.
What did you mean with "private addresses" by the way to hide visible balances?
Simple... You have two Addresses ripPriv and ripPub.When you deposit your money at your gateway, you instruct them to send it to ripPriv.
When you ask people to send you money you instruct them to send it to ripPub.
You set trust from ripPub <=> ripPriv very high.
So when people look up your 'public' address, they will just see the contents of your 'tip jar' (ripPub). They may deduce that you trust some account that is holding a large balance (ripPriv), but the gateways you trust likely have a large balance as well. When you send money from ripPub or ripPriv they will simple ripple through each other.
Certainly not complete anonymity, more like zebra anonymity.
Bummer ripple is so taboo here. I had hoped to bring up some of my questions and thoughts to a larger community, but it sounds like I'll stick to the smaller ripple boards for the foreseeable future.
Nah, it's ok - just make sure it is relevant for Bitcoin though, otherwise it'll end up in Alternative Cryptocurrency hell, alongside scamcoin number 1337.
I really like the check analogy by the way, Ripple then is just a way to conveniently exchange these according to published prices and manage them.
What did you mean with "private addresses" by the way to hide visible balances?
It's easier just to avoid it all together as you suggest - so that's my decision.
That's how I am going to take responsibility for my own actions.
Yep, the little SimPeople magic "everything just works" videos they provided were really horrible. Might as well said it runs on PixieDust. Going through the wiki and writing code against it was the only way I really began to understand the system in any real sense. In my opinion they would have been better comparing it to bank statements and checks. Your ripple balance represents how much money you have at PlaceXYZ and you can use that money anywhere that takes checks from PlaceXYZ. A very long time ago that used to be the way US banking worked. I could buy groceries at the grocery store with a check, but only checks from the one big bank in town.That's how I am going to take responsibility for my own actions.
I think ripple is an interesting idea, and there is potential for some sort of ripple system to work in the future. But I do not like the reliance on XRP, I think ripple would be better without them, and I find it unnerving how much information is available to everybody. I do not want just anybody to know every single transaction I have ever made, all conveniently linked in one place. I guess there are ways to hide your identity by using multiple accounts, but that totally disrupts the whole trust network and is not very convenient.
Yeah... the whole bank analogy breaks down once you throw in "and BTW all your balances are visible to everyone". This is simple enough for bitcoiners to grasp, but not soo much for civilians.UPDATE: This can be fixed with "hot" and "cold" wallets, or in this case "public" and "private" addresses, but the last thing that is needed is another level of convolution.
I use Websockets from firefox just fine - why the limit to Chrome?
Not a limitation, just a preference. Should work well with all browsers... even IE10 *puke*Anyways, I run https://github.com/liris/websocket-client or just (for small/on-the-fly requests) use http://www.websocket.org/echo.html as a "web service" (actually it runs locally).
I like python fine, and will likely play with it too, just figured more people would like to see a javascript sample. The echo page is cool too, but it doesn't provide the pointers mine does (like how to tip). Neither of them handle cross-domain invocations. Both chrome and firefox prevent that without reverting to lower level requests. I've heard that the fix is to explicitly allow it on the webserver to avoid the errors, but few service providers allow that level of tweaking. Might give this a shot as soon as I get enough NMC to start a .bit domain.Ripple discussions tend to heat up a lot here anyways, this is almost civil in comparison! 
Bummer ripple is so taboo here. I had hoped to bring up some of my questions and thoughts to a larger community, but it sounds like I'll stick to the smaller ripple boards for the foreseeable future.hero member
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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
I think ripple is an interesting idea, and there is potential for some sort of ripple system to work in the future. But I do not like the reliance on XRP, I think ripple would be better without them, and I find it unnerving how much information is available to everybody. I do not want just anybody to know every single transaction I have ever made, all conveniently linked in one place. I guess there are ways to hide your identity by using multiple accounts, but that totally disrupts the whole trust network and is not very convenient.
I think Ripple is an interesting idea, and that xrp are not really important (a distraction) - the problem is that it doesn't work.
Each gateway basically invents it's own currency - the value of that currency is tied to the trust people hold in that gateway. Since anyone can become a gateway then the trust in the gateway becomes exponentially less as more people add themselves to the chain of gateways.
Each $1, or bitcoin you hold in your ripple account is only as good as the tree of connections you have - some may be good, some may be reasonable and some may be worthless.
I hold 4 tradefortress bitcoins in my ripple account - I acknowledge they are worthless - but there's is no way I am going to add bitcoins from other gateways, because I don't know which bitcoins are real and which are bullshit.
I cannot trust my ripple account, so I cannot (I am unwilling) to use it.
Each gateway basically invents it's own currency - the value of that currency is tied to the trust people hold in that gateway. Since anyone can become a gateway then the trust in the gateway becomes exponentially less as more people add themselves to the chain of gateways.
Each $1, or bitcoin you hold in your ripple account is only as good as the tree of connections you have - some may be good, some may be reasonable and some may be worthless.
I hold 4 tradefortress bitcoins in my ripple account - I acknowledge they are worthless - but there's is no way I am going to add bitcoins from other gateways, because I don't know which bitcoins are real and which are bullshit.
I cannot trust my ripple account, so I cannot (I am unwilling) to use it.
It absolutely works. It simply does what you tell it to do. You told Ripple that you trusted Tradefortress for 4 of his worthless BTC's. That's not a flaw in Ripple, that's a flaw in you for trusting someone you shouldn't have. Accept responsibility for your own actions. Ripple is not AI to make up for your lack of.
There are ways to deal with your worthless IOU's. Reduce your trust level to Tradefortress to 0 and send those worthless IOU's back to the issuer. Or, you could just to start a new account and be wise in who you trust from now on. Right now, Bitstamp is the only gateway I trust with any significant amount as do most Ripple users. They issue IOU's based on the USD or BTC in my BitStamp account. They don't "invent" currency.
My advice is you should avoid using Ripple until you take the time to understand how it works. That should be common sense but...some people don't like to read manuals.
It's easier just to avoid it all together as you suggest - so that's my decision.
That's how I am going to take responsibility for my own actions.
I use Websockets from firefox just fine - why the limit to Chrome?
Anyways, I run https://github.com/liris/websocket-client or just (for small/on-the-fly requests) use http://www.websocket.org/echo.html as a "web service" (actually it runs locally).
Ripple discussions tend to heat up a lot here anyways, this is almost civil in comparison!
Anyways, I run https://github.com/liris/websocket-client or just (for small/on-the-fly requests) use http://www.websocket.org/echo.html as a "web service" (actually it runs locally).
Ripple discussions tend to heat up a lot here anyways, this is almost civil in comparison!
Wow... ok... that got more heated than I thought. I will certainly step lightly when bringing up the 'R' word around here .
@Sukrim, I did some porting efforts to my API tester. Might want to check out the JavaScript port, it's pretty simple and easy since you can cut and past test JSON in one clean interface.
https://github.com/d4n13/ripple-ps-websocket/tree/master/ports
Enjoy... Now.. where is that d4mn lock button...
.Nice, I personally work simply with the web socket client in Python and rippled, but it might help others.
@Sukrim, I did some porting efforts to my API tester. Might want to check out the JavaScript port, it's pretty simple and easy since you can cut and past test JSON in one clean interface.
https://github.com/d4n13/ripple-ps-websocket/tree/master/ports
Enjoy... Now.. where is that d4mn lock button...
Anyone who still trusts TradeFortress on Ripple (especially the ~3-5 ppl. who still trust both him and BitStamp!) should simply send the BTC back to him and set the trust limit to 0.
I think Ripple is an interesting idea, and that xrp are not really important (a distraction) - the problem is that it doesn't work.
Each gateway basically invents it's own currency - the value of that currency is tied to the trust people hold in that gateway. Since anyone can become a gateway then the trust in the gateway becomes exponentially less as more people add themselves to the chain of gateways.
Each $1, or bitcoin you hold in your ripple account is only as good as the tree of connections you have - some may be good, some may be reasonable and some may be worthless.
I hold 4 tradefortress bitcoins in my ripple account - I acknowledge they are worthless - but there's is no way I am going to add bitcoins from other gateways, because I don't know which bitcoins are real and which are bullshit.
I cannot trust my ripple account, so I cannot (I am unwilling) to use it.
Each gateway basically invents it's own currency - the value of that currency is tied to the trust people hold in that gateway. Since anyone can become a gateway then the trust in the gateway becomes exponentially less as more people add themselves to the chain of gateways.
Each $1, or bitcoin you hold in your ripple account is only as good as the tree of connections you have - some may be good, some may be reasonable and some may be worthless.
I hold 4 tradefortress bitcoins in my ripple account - I acknowledge they are worthless - but there's is no way I am going to add bitcoins from other gateways, because I don't know which bitcoins are real and which are bullshit.
I cannot trust my ripple account, so I cannot (I am unwilling) to use it.
It absolutely works. It simply does what you tell it to do. You told Ripple that you trusted Tradefortress for 4 of his worthless BTC's. That's not a flaw in Ripple, that's a flaw in you for trusting someone you shouldn't have. Accept responsibility for your own actions. Ripple is not AI to make up for your lack of.
There are ways to deal with your worthless IOU's. Reduce your trust level to Tradefortress to 0 and send those worthless IOU's back to the issuer. Or, you could just to start a new account and be wise in who you trust from now on. Right now, Bitstamp is the only gateway I trust with any significant amount as do most Ripple users. They issue IOU's based on the USD or BTC in my BitStamp account. They don't "invent" currency.
My advice is you should avoid using Ripple until you take the time to understand how it works. That should be common sense but...some people don't like to read manuals.
I think Ripple is an interesting idea, and that xrp are not really important (a distraction) - the problem is that it doesn't work.
Each gateway basically invents it's own currency - the value of that currency is tied to the trust people hold in that gateway. Since anyone can become a gateway then the trust in the gateway becomes exponentially less as more people add themselves to the chain of gateways.
Each $1, or bitcoin you hold in your ripple account is only as good as the tree of connections you have - some may be good, some may be reasonable and some may be worthless.
I hold 4 tradefortress bitcoins in my ripple account - I acknowledge they are worthless - but there's is no way I am going to add bitcoins from other gateways, because I don't know which bitcoins are real and which are bullshit.
I cannot trust my ripple account, so I cannot (I am unwilling) to use it.
Each gateway basically invents it's own currency - the value of that currency is tied to the trust people hold in that gateway. Since anyone can become a gateway then the trust in the gateway becomes exponentially less as more people add themselves to the chain of gateways.
Each $1, or bitcoin you hold in your ripple account is only as good as the tree of connections you have - some may be good, some may be reasonable and some may be worthless.
I hold 4 tradefortress bitcoins in my ripple account - I acknowledge they are worthless - but there's is no way I am going to add bitcoins from other gateways, because I don't know which bitcoins are real and which are bullshit.
I cannot trust my ripple account, so I cannot (I am unwilling) to use it.
I find it highly hypocritical by the way from a centralized webwallet operator with no expressed intent to open source any of his services who actively paid people to advertise against Ripple to call others "paid shills".
Ha!
Learn something new everyday. Ripple can be a service and coin and exchange, that is what they are trying to do, but they make it so complicated that it will not be easy for the typical consumer to use it. Also the development seems painfully slow, we are still looking at their close Beta!
It is not easy to understand how ripple work, but it is very easy to use it. Just fund your wallet with whatever currency you have through appropriate gateway, then make payments to any ripple address with the currency which receiver needs. It takes few clicks to setup yourself for using ripple.
Ripple can be a service and coin and exchange, that is what they are trying to do, but they make it so complicated that it will not be easy for the typical consumer to use it. Also the development seems painfully slow, we are still looking at their close Beta!
Well, behind the scenes quite a bit of development is going on so I would rather see it as a focus and communication problem in the sense of they need to focus on a certain feature that has widespread appeal (like the recently added Bitcoin bridge protocol) and communicating it far and wide.I also would love to see more simple clients popping up, though that again might be a problem as client developers probalby want their own server at home to test against a running server. Also what would be really cool is to see someone use Bitcoin, Ripple or (maybe even better suited for this?) OpenTransactions transparently, meaning user accounts are secretly managed and trading on a live network but don't even necessarily need to know about this.
I find it highly hypocritical by the way from a centralized webwallet operator with no expressed intent to open source any of his services who actively paid people to advertise against Ripple to call others "paid shills".
Anyways, back to work - I need to compute some more ledgers!
Ripple can be a service and coin and exchange, that is what they are trying to do, but they make it so complicated that it will not be easy for the typical consumer to use it. Also the development seems painfully slow, we are still looking at their close Beta!
Smart gateways will develop user friendly interfaces to simplify things for your average Paypal/Western Union user. I'm eager too...but patience Daniel-son. The future is near.
Ripple can be a service and coin and exchange, that is what they are trying to do, but they make it so complicated that it will not be easy for the typical consumer to use it. Also the development seems painfully slow, we are still looking at their close Beta!
That's OK, it'd be a waste of my time to keep talking to you with intelligent discourse because it was obvious you don't have a clue.
XRP is to prevent spam. It's value is irrelevant. I would say its actually better if the value is low because its cheaper to start accounts but even that doesn't matter because XRP account requirements can be adjusted via consensus. You've been told all this before and I'm actually surprised your arguments are so incoherent and so devoid of any truth or logic. Come on. After all the BTC you spent paying people to slander Ripple and running your anti-Ripple ads, this is really the best you've got? I've seen better talking points from noobs.
You don't even understand ripple and you're arguing for it?
I'm really glad you were able to counter that with a factual and intelligent retort, as apposed to posting a bunch of smilies, like most people do when they run out of talking points. Oh wait...
XRP is to prevent spam. It's value is irrelevant. I would say its actually better if the value is low because its cheaper to start accounts but even that doesn't matter because XRP account requirements can be adjusted via consensus. You've been told all this before and I'm actually surprised your arguments are so incoherent and so devoid of any truth or logic. Come on. After all the BTC you spent paying people to slander Ripple and running your anti-Ripple ads, this is really the best you've got? I've seen better talking points from noobs.
You don't even understand ripple and you're arguing for it?
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the price of XRP is irrelevant to the usefulness or success of the Ripple network
If the market cap of XRP is $1, what does that tell you? It tells you that Ripple has failed. So the price of XRP is relevant with the "usefulness or success of the Ripple network.
You should also be aware that all OpenCoin did was add the XRP scamcoin, they didn't invent the ripple payment system, in fact they failed at trying to implement it in a "simplified" model, and they fail at their business model.
In fact they stole the name OpenCoin from another group.
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Now, Ripple very well could fail, just as Bitcoin could fail but it won't be due to the value of XRP.
Yes it will. XRP becoming worthless will cause Ripple to fail, because XRP is the limiting factor in sending transactions, and when that limiting factor becomes useless servers go down.
I don't even know why I'm arguing with a ripple shill.
XRP is to prevent spam. It's value is irrelevant. I would say its actually better if the value is low because its cheaper to start accounts but even that doesn't matter because XRP account requirements can be adjusted via consensus. You've been told all this before and I'm actually surprised your arguments are so incoherent and so devoid of any truth or logic. Come on. After all the BTC you spent paying people to slander Ripple and running your anti-Ripple ads, this is really the best you've got? I've seen better talking points from noobs.
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the price of XRP is irrelevant to the usefulness or success of the Ripple network
If the market cap of XRP is $1, what does that tell you? It tells you that Ripple has failed. So the price of XRP is relevant with the "usefulness or success of the Ripple network.
You should also be aware that all OpenCoin did was add the XRP scamcoin, they didn't invent the ripple payment system, in fact they failed at trying to implement it in a "simplified" model, and they fail at their business model.
In fact they stole the name OpenCoin from another group.
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Now, Ripple very well could fail, just as Bitcoin could fail but it won't be due to the value of XRP.
Yes, it very will fail. XRP becoming worthless will cause Ripple to fail, because XRP is the limiting factor in sending transactions, and when that limiting factor becomes useless servers go down.
I don't even know why I'm arguing with a ripple shill. Trying to get hired by OpenCoin Inc, huh?
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XRP is what it is. Maybe it will be valuable one day and maybe not. As it relates to the Ripple network, it's completely irrelevant. It's this point that seems to evade many people because Bitcoin's value is based on what each BTC is actually worth. If BTC value returns to $0.01, Bitcoin is essentially dead. Where Ripple's value is not in what XRP is worth but rather how well the network actually works. It doesn't matter if XRP is worth $0.01 or $1 million. It's all the same. But it's because of how we view BTC value, that Ripple continues to get viewed through a BTC vs XRP lens, instead of the compliment the Ripple payment network is to Bitcoin.
Completely false. OpenCoin Inc plays Federal Reserve Bank by adjusting fees and reserves relative to USD terms, in addition to controlling the distribution of XRP (they are effectively introducing more XRP into the monetary supply). People who use Bitcoin want to get away from central bank manipulation, not get to it.
If ripple's value becomes 1 billion XRPs per dollar or what, it is completely dead.
Speak of the devil.
. You say such things yet run to your central bank of Gox and blatantly ignore the hypocrisy in such actions. Look, boo hoo for you that you don't get to mine XRP. Fortunately, as I said, the price of XRP is irrelevant to the usefulness or success of the Ripple network. Sorry if that's a tough pill for you to swallow but you better get used to that reality. I know for you personally it sucks to hear because your weak talking points are getting shot down by truth of a network over a non-existent BTC vs XRP battle. A fake battle you benefit from by distracting people from the brilliance that is the Ripple payment network. Not some single crypto currency.
Now, Ripple very well could fail, just as Bitcoin could fail but it won't be due to the value of XRP, like the value of BTC being tied to the success of Bitcoin. Ripple doesn't have that problem. It will be due to whether the network actually works and whether mass adoption will actually take hold. Fortunately, you have no bearing on whether either of these will succeed. Deal with it.
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XRP is what it is. Maybe it will be valuable one day and maybe not. As it relates to the Ripple network, it's completely irrelevant. It's this point that seems to evade many people because Bitcoin's value is based on what each BTC is actually worth. If BTC value returns to $0.01, Bitcoin is essentially dead. Where Ripple's value is not in what XRP is worth but rather how well the network actually works. It doesn't matter if XRP is worth $0.01 or $1 million. It's all the same. But it's because of how we view BTC value, that Ripple continues to get viewed through a BTC vs XRP lens, instead of the compliment the Ripple payment network is to Bitcoin.
Completely false. OpenCoin Inc plays Federal Reserve Bank by adjusting fees and reserves relative to USD terms, in addition to controlling the distribution of XRP (they are effectively introducing more XRP into the monetary supply). People who use Bitcoin want to get away from central bank manipulation, not get to it.
If ripple's value becomes 1 billion XRPs per dollar or what, it is completely dead.
Separating the payment network that is Ripple, from the native currency that is XRP, seems to be a difficult hurdle for many Bitcoiners to overcome. I don't think it's because it's poorly explained, I think it's mainly because people are either to ideologically blinded to see anything other than Bitcoin or simply to lazy to actually figure out what Ripple is, beyond the talking points of a few haters.
XRP is what it is. Maybe it will be valuable one day and maybe not. As it relates to the Ripple network, it's completely irrelevant. It's this point that seems to evade many people because Bitcoin's value is based on what each BTC is actually worth. If BTC value returns to $0.01, Bitcoin is essentially dead. Where Ripple's value is not in what XRP is worth but rather how well the network actually works. It doesn't matter if XRP is worth $0.01 or $1 million. It's all the same. But it's because of how we view BTC value, that Ripple continues to get viewed through a BTC vs XRP lens, instead of the compliment the Ripple payment network is to Bitcoin.
The Ripple payment network is a thing of brilliance and the potential it has, far exceeds any benefits a single crypto currency offers. Heck, it far exceeds any 2 or 3 cryptos combined. But that's because it's not a currency at all and as more people begin to realize this truth, the more people will see the genius and the future that is Ripple. Allowing people to pay with BTC and merchants to receive that payment in fiat, is the only way crypto will ever see mass adoption. Currently, Ripple is the only network remotely close to bringing this reality to the masses and when this happens, it will be a good thing for the entire crypto world.
XRP is what it is. Maybe it will be valuable one day and maybe not. As it relates to the Ripple network, it's completely irrelevant. It's this point that seems to evade many people because Bitcoin's value is based on what each BTC is actually worth. If BTC value returns to $0.01, Bitcoin is essentially dead. Where Ripple's value is not in what XRP is worth but rather how well the network actually works. It doesn't matter if XRP is worth $0.01 or $1 million. It's all the same. But it's because of how we view BTC value, that Ripple continues to get viewed through a BTC vs XRP lens, instead of the compliment the Ripple payment network is to Bitcoin.
The Ripple payment network is a thing of brilliance and the potential it has, far exceeds any benefits a single crypto currency offers. Heck, it far exceeds any 2 or 3 cryptos combined. But that's because it's not a currency at all and as more people begin to realize this truth, the more people will see the genius and the future that is Ripple. Allowing people to pay with BTC and merchants to receive that payment in fiat, is the only way crypto will ever see mass adoption. Currently, Ripple is the only network remotely close to bringing this reality to the masses and when this happens, it will be a good thing for the entire crypto world.
What do you mean exactly? s1.ripple.com is not the only rippled out there, just saying... at the moment it's rather a question of "what do I need and what can I throw away safely".
Maybe you want to say that it makes not much sense to work with the ~24k account network right now and I should make sure to be able to scale to millions of accounts already? Also I disagree with the "network to nowhere" statement. If you meant something else, maybe give me a link to these simulations.
Maybe you want to say that it makes not much sense to work with the ~24k account network right now and I should make sure to be able to scale to millions of accounts already? Also I disagree with the "network to nowhere" statement. If you meant something else, maybe give me a link to these simulations.
Cool... I've posted an API stub if you want to gather some more precise data. Look forward to your paper...
https://github.com/d4n13
Nice, I personally work simply with the web socket client in Python and rippled, but it might help others.https://github.com/d4n13
Currently the most limits concern the rate rippled can actually serve ledger data vs. new ledgers being created.
Maybe I'll try to put some stuff in a local redis or other nosql database so I don't kill or choke the public servers that much...
Anyways, that's details and bitcoind would also have problems if I requested the utxo set + balances for all nonzero addresses at any height...
Back to topic I guess one of the main issues would be to find someone to write a reasonably extendable client to be used by gateways and making rippled more secure and stable. There is a lot going on however, so I'm sure they use the summer not just to chill on the Bahamas with their vc funding.
Edit:
About xrp and market making:
I'm not too sure if xrp have to be market makers by design. They have the very useful property of being 100% accepted, on the other hand though they are volatile. They might be useful as intermediates in paths but I'm not too sure if there is a lot of money in this as to market make, Jed would also need to trust at least one (to gain high arbitrage: a little trusted which in return is more dangerous!) IOU gateway to exchange his xrp at a profit to these IOUs.
If the gateway is already very liquid like bitstamp there will be a lot of people and lines trying to underbid you, if it is badly connected to other gateways like trade fortress, there might be a reason for that...
You are forward engineering a tiny, struggling Network to Nowhere.
Instead, you have to reverse engineer Jed's simulations of a future multi-billion $$$ network.
Cool... I've posted an API stub if you want to gather some more precise data. Look forward to your paper...
https://github.com/d4n13
Nice, I personally work simply with the web socket client in Python and rippled, but it might help others.https://github.com/d4n13
Currently the most limits concern the rate rippled can actually serve ledger data vs. new ledgers being created.
Maybe I'll try to put some stuff in a local redis or other nosql database so I don't kill or choke the public servers that much...
Anyways, that's details and bitcoind would also have problems if I requested the utxo set + balances for all nonzero addresses at any height...
Back to topic I guess one of the main issues would be to find someone to write a reasonably extendable client to be used by gateways and making rippled more secure and stable. There is a lot going on however, so I'm sure they use the summer not just to chill on the Bahamas with their vc funding.
Edit:
About xrp and market making:
I'm not too sure if xrp have to be market makers by design. They have the very useful property of being 100% accepted, on the other hand though they are volatile. They might be useful as intermediates in paths but I'm not too sure if there is a lot of money in this as to market make, Jed would also need to trust at least one (to gain high arbitrage: a little trusted which in return is more dangerous!) IOU gateway to exchange his xrp at a profit to these IOUs.
If the gateway is already very liquid like bitstamp there will be a lot of people and lines trying to underbid you, if it is badly connected to other gateways like trade fortress, there might be a reason for that...
The reason I don't care about XRP is that it is simply the token used to pay for Ripple transactions.
No, that is the early-2013 explanation for retards.
XRP is the first Market Making currency...
It was designed by Jed McCaleb who built MtGox...
And speaking as a professional Market Maker... is a disruptive idea in of itself.
If Ripple ever gains tranction... most optimal exchanges will go via XRP...
Not direct BTC to USD... but rather BTC to XRP to USD...
Anyone owning millions of XRP can collect lucrative transit fees.
Jed paid himself 10-20,000,000,000 XRP. Does Jed think it's a "token"?
On the other hand, as a Rich Monopolist...
Jed completely misread the Bitcoin community and blew it... probably fatally.
Once I finish my stuff, I might publish some of it - which should give ppl. a better estimate of what is going on in "Rippleland" (e.g. I have seen VERY different estimates about how many XRP are now dispersed amongst users). I'm not too sure about the format though and how to actually profit from it (I invest already quite some time), maybe charge some BTC amounts for a paper on coindl.
Cool... I've posted an API stub if you want to gather some more precise data. Look forward to your paper...
https://github.com/d4n13
That's where the protocol confusion freezes most discussions. There isn't a native currency per-se. There are IOUs and XRP. The "pitch" is that XRP aren't currentcy, but transaction credits. Currently I'm allowed to do 75 million transactions, but my cost for transactions will go up as servers take load and try to discurrage transactions (by raising the credit cost).
But after I burn through my 75 million transactions, I can "buy" more credits. This is why the credits cant shake the currency tag. Since they are buyable, they are defacto currency. Hence the targe of the the gas and firestorm.
But after I burn through my 75 million transactions, I can "buy" more credits. This is why the credits cant shake the currency tag. Since they are buyable, they are defacto currency. Hence the targe of the the gas and firestorm.
Well, then don't call them currency but asset - anyways, XRP are the only thing in Ripple that can be transferred without issuing trust atm. and they are also intended to be "path shorteners" by allowing people to pice their IOUs against XRP. I'll have to look at market orders too to make an educated statement, but if I look at the trust graphs for USD and BTC alone, Ripple is heavily dominated by Bitstamp at the moment. It depends on market orders, but I guess BTC.Bitstamp and USD.Bitstamp are also useful for direct trade without XRP as intermediate already as well (e.g. against CNY from various issuers).
Once I finish my stuff, I might publish some of it - which should give ppl. a better estimate of what is going on in "Rippleland" (e.g. I have seen VERY different estimates about how many XRP are now dispersed amongst users). I'm not too sure about the format though and how to actually profit from it (I invest already quite some time), maybe charge some BTC amounts for a paper on coindl.
Try coinbase which lets you transfer money within seconds, as easy as an email.
If coinbase integrated with Ripple, you could trade the coinbase IOUs you get by depositing there for anything...
Coinbase is nice, so is CampBX, but they aren't really at parity with BitStamp or Mt.Gox
Ripple to me is more of a transfer/payment network while BTC is more like the gold in a high-security bank vault.
Exactally...
What do you want to accomplish with this thread though? It will only stay here if it is relevant towards Bitcoin, otherwise it will be moved/locked. Only asking for "general thoughts" is a bit weak imho.
When I look at the ripple threads from May, they all got flooded with ripplesux.com posts. That's fine, but there is an interesting protocol under all the XRP=SUX retoric. I guess I was hopeing that since I can move USD from my US checking account to BitStamp for < $1.00, that there might be wider adoption. But that borders on sounding like an XRP shill.
Time will tell I suppose. If the money movement aspect of it is successfull, with a low percentage of scammers, system might still take hold.
Even if it's debatable if the Better Ripple end is above or below epsilon, it's still undebatable that Ripple - Ripplescamcoin = Better Ripple.
Good thread... thanks for the pointer. Searched ripple and this one was low on the search order and still pretty old. Apollogies if this topic is already talked to death.
I would rather see a Ripple implementation that lets you use other currencies (e.g. BTC, LTC...) next to XRP as native currencies. As you anyways don't need a lot of XRP in your whole lifetime however I am not too sure if this would really ever pay off.
That's where the protocol confusion freezes most discussions. There isn't a native currency per-se. There are IOUs and XRP. The "pitch" is that XRP aren't currentcy, but transaction credits. Currently I'm allowed to do 75 million transactions, but my cost for transactions will go up as servers take load and try to discurrage transactions (by raising the credit cost).
But after I burn through my 75 million transactions, I can "buy" more credits. This is why the credits cant shake the currency tag. Since they are buyable, they are defacto currency. Hence the targe of the the gas and firestorm.
I somehow understand why so many people here are so much against XRP - I don't get however why so many people don't look beyond that. The price of one BigMac buys you more XRP than you probably need in your lifetime and that's the only single transaction you need XRP for. Compare this to Bitcoin... anyways, I'll continue to work on my project(s), have fun bashing/flaming.
Agreed. I would think Mt.Gox / BitStamp / BTC-e / CampBx would all jump in the Ripple game. Making it easier for customers to get money into your shop is always a plus, though the stake costs may be a barrier to many, since, to be honest, you probably have to "seed" the liquidity by agreeing to swap a few 100k with other exchanges.
Ripple without native currency is similar to villages.cc... also cross currency path finding there seems quite horrible to me once it would gain traction.
I would rather see a Ripple implementation that lets you use other currencies (e.g. BTC, LTC...) next to XRP as native currencies. As you anyways don't need a lot of XRP in your whole lifetime however I am not too sure if this would really ever pay off.
I somehow understand why so many people here are so much against XRP - I don't get however why so many people don't look beyond that. The price of one BigMac buys you more XRP than you probably need in your lifetime and that's the only single transaction you need XRP for. Compare this to Bitcoin... anyways, I'll continue to work on my project(s), have fun bashing/flaming.
I would rather see a Ripple implementation that lets you use other currencies (e.g. BTC, LTC...) next to XRP as native currencies. As you anyways don't need a lot of XRP in your whole lifetime however I am not too sure if this would really ever pay off.
I somehow understand why so many people here are so much against XRP - I don't get however why so many people don't look beyond that. The price of one BigMac buys you more XRP than you probably need in your lifetime and that's the only single transaction you need XRP for. Compare this to Bitcoin... anyways, I'll continue to work on my project(s), have fun bashing/flaming.
Even if it's debatable if the Better Ripple end is above or below epsilon, it's still undebatable that Ripple - Ripplescamcoin = Better Ripple.
If coinbase integrated with Ripple, you could trade the coinbase IOUs you get by depositing there for anything...
Anyways, I'm currently working a bit on/with Ripple so I might be too biased to give useful comments here atm. I generally like the idea and system that IOUs are made more explicit to users (you trade for example USD.MtGox for BTC.MtGox, not USD for BTC on Gox!) and also more fungible/tradeable.
If you just want to move fiat from the US to e.g. HK, then Ripple might really be better suited for you than always using BTC as an intermediate currency. Also if you want to keep a balance in BTC and buy things that are priced in different currencies, Ripple might allow that in case you do trust a gateway (which is in the end exactly the kind of service coinbase offers - deposit coins to them and get them back later) that is reasonably well connected in the Ripple network.
Ripple to me is more of a transfer/payment network while BTC is more like the gold in a high-security bank vault.
What do you want to accomplish with this thread though? It will only stay here if it is relevant towards Bitcoin, otherwise it will be moved/locked. Only asking for "general thoughts" is a bit weak imho.
Anyways, I'm currently working a bit on/with Ripple so I might be too biased to give useful comments here atm. I generally like the idea and system that IOUs are made more explicit to users (you trade for example USD.MtGox for BTC.MtGox, not USD for BTC on Gox!) and also more fungible/tradeable.
If you just want to move fiat from the US to e.g. HK, then Ripple might really be better suited for you than always using BTC as an intermediate currency. Also if you want to keep a balance in BTC and buy things that are priced in different currencies, Ripple might allow that in case you do trust a gateway (which is in the end exactly the kind of service coinbase offers - deposit coins to them and get them back later) that is reasonably well connected in the Ripple network.
Ripple to me is more of a transfer/payment network while BTC is more like the gold in a high-security bank vault.
What do you want to accomplish with this thread though? It will only stay here if it is relevant towards Bitcoin, otherwise it will be moved/locked. Only asking for "general thoughts" is a bit weak imho.
Try coinbase which lets you transfer money within seconds, as easy as an email.
A fresh Ripple thread to flame. I've been tempted to post to one of the others, but the context seemed a bit off.
Let me set the stage. I could give a flying fxxk for the price of XRP. The only time I would care about XRP is if it became worth $10,000 per XRP. I think we can all safely agree on the fact that that will never ever ever ever happen. The reason I don't care about XRP is that it is simply the token used to pay for Ripple transactions. It's the token used to pay the ferryman, so long as the token is sufficiently worthless (good) the fare is sufficiently cheap (really good).
So establishing that I'm rooting for XRP to go DOWN in value, my primary interest in Ripple is Ripple-as-a-service (not a coin). As a service, what's your (BCT community) take on Ripple as a service?
I'll agree that it is closed source (in the sense that it is not 100% open, making it closed).
I'll agree that the founders are sitting on about $500 million in capitalization (based on the current ludicrous price of 140 XRP to the dollar).
I'll agree that it is a confusing protocol and poorly explained.
With all that said, is its evil as equally limited as Paypal, Dwolla, OKPay and other trans-national fund transfer services? Or is it more evil than Paypal or its ilk, and if so how?
I'm just really trying to find ways to move $$ from US to RU or EU or HK, and Ripple seems to be the cheapest/quickest ferry service out there right now. BitInstant, or Dwolla, or OKPay might all snap back to life, but I'm not holding my breath.
Thoughts?
*flame-on*
Let me set the stage. I could give a flying fxxk for the price of XRP. The only time I would care about XRP is if it became worth $10,000 per XRP. I think we can all safely agree on the fact that that will never ever ever ever happen. The reason I don't care about XRP is that it is simply the token used to pay for Ripple transactions. It's the token used to pay the ferryman, so long as the token is sufficiently worthless (good) the fare is sufficiently cheap (really good).
So establishing that I'm rooting for XRP to go DOWN in value, my primary interest in Ripple is Ripple-as-a-service (not a coin). As a service, what's your (BCT community) take on Ripple as a service?
I'll agree that it is closed source (in the sense that it is not 100% open, making it closed).
I'll agree that the founders are sitting on about $500 million in capitalization (based on the current ludicrous price of 140 XRP to the dollar).
I'll agree that it is a confusing protocol and poorly explained.
With all that said, is its evil as equally limited as Paypal, Dwolla, OKPay and other trans-national fund transfer services? Or is it more evil than Paypal or its ilk, and if so how?
I'm just really trying to find ways to move $$ from US to RU or EU or HK, and Ripple seems to be the cheapest/quickest ferry service out there right now. BitInstant, or Dwolla, or OKPay might all snap back to life, but I'm not holding my breath.
Thoughts?
*flame-on*
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