Topic: Ron Paul Doesn’t Believe Bitcoin is “True Money” (Read 3408 times)

Gold hasn't become a store of value for no reason : people like it because it is shinny, beautiful and has amazing physical properties very convenient in jewellery or industry!

Bitcoin isn't a store of value for no reason : it is very easy to store it, move it or transfer it!

thats what they said about art when photography was invented. They also said the printed word would die out and everyone would stop reading books when computers were invented

Nefarious? Silkroad is revolutionary and something every true libertarian should approve. For the first time in history, people can buy and sell anything from each other  without approval from any third party. Not the government, not a bank, not a creditcard - processor. Without meeting IRL. Like a free market is supposed to work. I was a little surprised when I heard RP didn't believe in btc. A libertarian should believe in a technology that makes that possible. A technology that additionally has the potential to take away power from the govts in many, many other ways (watch Stefan Molyneux vid on YouTube called Bitcoin vs political power you who haven't)

Bitcoin is still very new.

It will take a while for people to accept it.

I don't mind that gold continues to be money, even in the optimistic case of bitcoin taking over. Gold is sufficiently different to bitcoin that it has a reason for existence. Gold is not an aimless altcoin.

They will call anyone crazy who would argue against free money, who does that.   Hold out your hand and shut up, RP is definitely crazy cranky old man who just dont get how clever all this new government policy really is.   Debt is money now, the more debt there is the richer the nation becomes
Ron Paul was arguing against Nixon's and various other disastrous changes from the start.   Dismiss him if you want just because its easiest to do so, solid money by contrast is pointless work in comparison

Many also do not understand Bitcoin. They also associate it with nefarious things like SR.

The more companies that accept it successfully (read: jobs in a congressman's district) the more credibility it will get. 

Ron Paul is an old fart. I guess he was sort of a gateway into libertarianism for some people, and therefore important (....I guess), but his opinion doesn't matter. He's painted as a crazy, anyway.

He likes something you can "hold in your hand." Classic Goldbugger! Gotta love him though. Ron Paul - the grandpa of the nation.

You can not say that though. From a 3rd party perspective, you would sound crazy and it's not exactly a convincing standpoint.

May they continue to underestimate bit coin. The tipping point is not that far away.

Same in a way can be said about gold. So it's fine in my opinion. Many politicians don't want to accept the fact that Bitcoin is real because it does not have a bank at the head of it.

The key words to all this are "78 year old".
I don't blame someone for whom the internet is still novelty to not understand/trust bitcoin.
Those who do are visionaries.

It is a store of value and a very convenient and secure mean of exchange that cannot be printed to death by politicians interested in being re-elected and controlling other at the price of war and dispair

only time will tell if it's a true money or not.

I wonder when he will change his mind about Bitcoin if he does and if Rand P has the same opinion

he is to old to understand cryptos

Plenty of people comprehend Ron Pauls message.
But there are even more people with fluoride addled brains who can not comprehend what he says; they're just intellectually lazy. Also brainwashed.

Thats why he was cheated in going for presidency, no one believes him.

The USA exists because they wanted to be free from the UK and its taxes

There has never been great creation of wealth without low taxes

It is interesting to me that people use Bitcoin to buy and sell things. But, really, I see Bitcoin and Litecoin as the digital equivalent of gold and silver. It used to be way more common to pay for things using gold coins even when a troy ounce wasn't exactly the official national currency. Which sort of makes it "money" in the sense that it's a place-holder that only has value because people agree that it has value.

The big point there is the taxes would have been higher then the tax from King George.   The boston tea party never would have happened, nobody protests 10% taxes and revolts to get 35% instead.
Its clear the constitution was not respected and isnt with most new laws either, the argumentative little man of Ron Paul is just pointing out the obvious that the states signed up to an agreement not kept.

He doesnt see bitcoin as an alternative to the dollar, he sees the dollar pre Nixon, pre FDR as the real alternative.  That is the original dollar as it was minted and agreed upon by all states in the union, right or wrong you cant dispute his argument is a simple one.
   To then ask him about bitcoin is a pointless complication I believe he would see it, not that he disagrees exactly

Competing currencies was what was in place in the states when the most wealth was created, the taxes were low, there were no income taxes and no FED

Nobody would have moved to the states if the taxes were so high

Ron Paul advocated for competing currencies before it was cool

USD is backed by its infrastructure, the government in place, habit ect.

It will surely fall within a few years and the price of bitcoin will rise to tens of thousands of dollars when it does

I would rephrase that :

This makes no sense. 

USD is not convertible to gold anymore.  Its legal tender.  The only tender accepted for taxes

BTC is not convertible to anything.  It is currently barter.

You Sir are severly misinformed.
Libertarians do not want government to use force and coercion for ANYTHING. Where did you get that spectacular piece of misinformation? Libertarians first and foremost base their philosophy off the Non-Aggression Principle. Again how or where did you come to believe that Libertarians want to use government to force their own agenda on their peers.

Ron Pauls personal choice may be to not have an abortion. But he wont use government to force his personal choice on you. He wants you to be at liberty to make your own choice.

I suggest you do some reading http://www.fee.org/library/ and mises.org.

You vote with your dollars. You can also vote with your feet.

US Dollar is not backed by gold, but by policy.
Bitcoin is at least backed by mathematics 

Libertarians do not want to control women's bodies. Conservatives do. There's a difference.

Simply said, Libertarians are for anything that increases freedom and against anything that decreases freedom.

Legalize drugs, that's a personal choice.
Legalize gay marriage, marry a darn chair if you want to.
The only purpose of government is to protect individual rights. That means police, military and the courts. Absolutely nothing else.


Off my soapbox. This is not the right forum.

Then something happened to you that frequently happens to all "believers" who lack the knowledge for better judgement - you're wrong.
Nothing spectacular and won't affect you for quite a while - but when it eventually does, you'll a) know and b) it'll be too late to react appropriately.

Unfortunately, you're living in the right times to experience exactly that during your lifetime (historically, about 1 out of 3 generations goes through this).

PS.
Although it seems self-evident at first and not worth wasting thoughts about, it takes a long time to really understand the terms "value", "money" and the entire background of what today's people "believe" to be money (including what's wrong with it).
For most people, it's normal not to know these details as it takes quite a bit of research to find out. Just 20-30 years ago, these things wouldn't have been much of an issue....unfortunately, they are today and will become much more pressing in the future.

PPS.
If you still have them - ask your grandparents about these issues. If they're old enough, they usually have invaluable insights to share to help you understand what's the big deal about it.

PPPS. (lol)
On the Ron Paul topic : I'm not a follower. I follow noone. But I do recognize when someone speaks some true words, no matter where that person comes from.

i believe that "true money" is not true money.

Ron Paul is not going to tell you why Bitcoin is not money. He will not answer the question -guaranteed. And his loving loyal followers won't press him to answer the question. Ron Paul is for Ron Paul.
Ask him why libertarians want the government to control women bodies but leave corporations alone.

At the end of the day money is value and bitcoin is that.

Ron Paul is old and intelligent enough to know what defines true money and what does not - that's his advantage. And judging from the excerpt he's bang-on with his statements.

However, he's very strict on the constitutional principles and the resulting requirements to fulfill them, which are very closely anchored to the original US coinage acts and require physical, intrinsic value.

IMHO BitCoin doesn't have to fulfill all requirements to 100% to be used as money in modern days. Since it has some potential improvements to FIAT (but carries other risks), it may very well be used as a FIAT substitute or as an alternative payment processor in some cases (international payments are it's greatest strengh). Based on what he writes, he has no issues with that ideas.

The ideas of some to use it as an outright replacement for a currency or even a permanent store of value are IMHO extremely far-fetched and out of the question.

PS.
Since he was the only presidential candidate who was not part of the staged, all bought-and-paid-for other muppets, alot of work has been invested to discredit him during the last "election" (which really doesn't deserve the name anymore) by all accounts.
One doesn't have to agree with all of his positions (which in the big scope of things and problems aren't too relevant anyway), but he's definitely by far the cleanest guy you'll ever find on these matters. Plus, he warned since almost 20 years of nearly everything we've seen to come into existence and has maintained his positions straight ever since (whether you agree on them or not) - go find another modern, western politician who truly lived up to that.

I always believe Bitcoin is true money.

Nothing Dr. Ron Paul says can be condensed down into 2 words.
Maybe one and that would be Liberty.

He is all about competing currencies. You choose the one you want to use. He believes that if we all make up our own minds and choices, then we will choose the best money that exists, as individuals and as a whole. There is no need to use force to get people to adopt a money, unless it is a bad money. He doesn't believe the government should force you to use a money that is not of your own choosing. Hell it's not even a belief. The dude is a scholar. History has already shown us plenty of evidence concerning bank notes, warehouse notes, unbacked bills, paper, paper, and more paper. CNTRL+P the money substitutes. It leads to ruination and serfdom.

He knows the monopoly to create debt money, given by the US fedguv to the private banking cartel known at the federal reserve, is harming the American people. Wise man have left quotes all over the interwebz about banks and pauperizing children. Why do we need Bitcoin??   Ron Paul has been guarding the answer to that question during our deepest descent into tyranny this country has known since Colonial times. For decades Statesman Ron Paul said "The emperor has no clothes" and the Representatives around him said "looks Red, White, and Blue to me"


Ron Paul is against legal tender laws. He, like we all should, recognizes that gold can not be counterfeited where as fiat bank notes can be. Currency can be. Bitcoin also can not be. Does he know this? I think so but that isn't the only metric used to decide determine "true money-ness"


If you asked Satoshi, I bet you he would say that Ron Paul was one of his personal heroes.
Ron Paul may not understand the tech....   but he's been one of a small handful of voices that inspired crypto-currency by showing the need for it.

Why is the dollar so bad?? Why do we need Bitcoin??
We ask Ron Paul. He's been telling us the answer for 40 years. He has the answer to the questions,
"Is the Dollar true money?" and
"Whats the difference in impact, on an economy and a society of people, when they use either a true money like gold or bitcoin as the medium of exchange, or a fiat, inked toilet paper that can be counterfeited by thieves, is used to steal by the inflation tax, and is forced on them by a rogue government and its guns under threat of death?"

Prosperity, security, and a meritocracy. or
Warfare, welfare, and a crony kleptocracy.
 

Bitcoin and Ron Paul are firmly in the same camp together.

I thought that the current debate was about whether bitcoin is wave or particle ... like.. lets move foward to the next level  

If you pressed Ron Paul on if dollars are money, I think he might say no.  Because its base worth is just cotton notes, so its not worth anything really.   Government points a gun at you and asks the same question and of course it is then money and the IRS imprisons anyone who thinks they dont require dollars to remain a free citizen.   Nobody has to buy bitcoin, there is no desperate demand for hash codes that we can trade them forward on that base demand but it does have a use to it anyway as a token product, dollars have a use only because it is backed by force otherwise we could swap cotton tshirts instead of green cotton notes and that would give them a base use

Bitcoin is a protocol, a great one that solves a lot of troubles and do a lot of things way better than its competitors; fiat currencies are inflated to death, Bitcoin won't

All money exists online, including fiat. There is no avoiding this, even if you don’t use a computer.

 and so what does he mean by 'true' money.. everything is bits in a computer, the whole world economy is bits. 

Ron Paul is batshit crazy.

I think he is right is some sense. Bitcoin has some similarities with the FIAT, considering it as the cash FIAT or the FIAT used in banks and international transfer, but is not exactly equal and equivalent. BTC also resembles gold and silver, but at the same time many differences.

For me BTC is something entirely new, so not really a True Money, in some sense

Hmm, sounds like a lot of people in the bitcoin community  

Ron Paul is nothing but a hack. He's just a politician out to get more power for himself. If you put your trust in him (or any other politician), you must be retarded. At least, he's not megalomaniac like Putin.

Bitcoin is not a real currency at all (yet).  It probably will be someday.  Right now it is more of an internet bling bling.  Nerds think it is cool and shiny because it is a beautiful code that exists on the internet and is decentralized (me included fellow nerds).  But that really is just software and ideological digital bling bling.  It isn't much different than a rapper's gold and diamonds.  He thinks it is beautiful because of what it represents.  White educated men think bitcoin is beautiful because of what it represents. 

Someday bitcoin might just grow up and become a real currency.  There is an interesting experiment at MIT going on (a fairly white/male/educated demographic) and in the best case scenerio, then yes, bitcoin will be an accepted currency in and around MIT.

Until then bitcoin is just digital bling bling that is also kind of a poor unpredictable commodity and kind of a slow/difficult/dangerous payment system. 

QE is brand new and thats all dollars.  Dollars are digital anyway, only a small amount of a nations cash is actually physically passed around.
   I think Ron Paul gets bitcoin well enough but he also dislikes that its not backed by a fix to any value, he is a solid money guy for decades so I'd be surprised by anything different now.
   He'd argue in favour of free laws concerning drug prohibition but as a doctor he'd also recommend a stable diet instead, he is not an absolutist in his views.  I believe he is not against bitcoin in any way but he doesnt believe in it enough to hold or take special interest personally which is his choice.  I dont presume him stupid for deciding freely to take that choice

We have been not using true money for years. From some people's talk, the most important question is, who is monitoring the buy and sell? So Far, no one can answer precisely.

ron paul likes gold

his age shows as tech is not one of this strong suits

he cant recommend what he dosnt really understand

fiat is not superstition. fiat is just printing money and calling it legal, actually, same as Bitcoin. Only diff is that fiat is backed by a country Bitcoin is not. I like bitcoin becuase of that.

Creationism is not a superstition, it is a belief.

I agree with him, Bitcoin has evolved more into a commodity. And unless the speed of transactions on the block chain is sorted out it will always be digital gold, sorry to say it, it's not ready for daily quick purchases which is what is needed in a stable currency.

Same thing thats wrong with fiat. It's a superstition.

And what is wrong with creationism?

Another one who doesn't think that bitcoin is money ,understands neither bitcoin or money.

What does it matter? He also belives in creationism

But unlike the rest of them, he doesn't want to destroy or regulate it.

I agree with you since we know what bitcoin is and what it can be

I don't believe what this old man is saying. Bitcoin is the only real currency.

What's this doing in the marketplace? You can move it to Bitcoin Discussion (bottom left), but it's already been posted: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ron-paul-says-bitcoin-is-not-true-money-575782

Have you heard? Ron Paul is now on Quora — a popular question-and-answer website.

The 78-year-old politico has been answering questions, and revealed on Wednesday his true feelings on the emerging digital currency we know as bitcoin.

“Bitcoin is a very interesting subject because for many years in Congress I was a champion of legalizing competition in currencies,” he wrote in the opening line in his response to the question: Bitcoin: Why does Ron Paul think Bitcoin does not fit the definition of money?

Paul has made no secret that he feels today’s monetary system isn’t quite what it should be:

We have a terrible monetary system today. We have a government that purposely counterfeits and debases the currencies and I believe that the alternative would be a competition.  That means that anything that wants to substitute for the American dollar should be permitted. There should be no prohibitions; there should not be a monopoly and a cartel running our monetary system because it so often benefits the privileged few. We certainly saw this in the bailing out of the financial system where the wealthy bankers got bailed out it in this recent and severe recession. I am a strong believer in competition. Bitcoin is an introduction to that.

Despite in early December stating that Bitcoin could potentially “destroy the dollar“, Paul says he feels bitcoin isn’t “true money”:

Though I don’t personally believe that Bitcoin is true money, it should be perfectly legal and there should be no restrictions on it, there should be no taxes on it. The people who operate Bitcoin would, of course, be prohibited from committing fraud but the people should be able to have competition whether it is a basket of commodities or crypto-currencies – it should be perfectly legal. For this to operate, we need to have freedom from government intervention when it comes to the Internet. I am concerned that the government ultimately wants to curtail the Internet and there have been attempts to do so.

An interesting point of view, certainly. And while many in the crypto-community would disagree with Paul’s comment as to whether or not bitcoin is true money, his views on the use of the digital currency are very much in-line with community sentiments.

“The internet is the salvation for those of us who believe in liberty because it is an alternative way of getting around the system not only in the spreading of our ideas in this instance but in in terms of getting around the monetary system on the whole if they do permit crypto-currencies and other forms of transactions,” he said. “So, this is something that we should all be concerned about whether we endorse it or not.”