Author

Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer (Read 1526 times)

sr. member
Activity: 300
Merit: 250
September 13, 2014, 04:14:03 PM
#16
The thread needs to be reset due to average post quality going down, a phenomenon that seems impossible to be reversed with or without hurting feelings.

I don't think starting whole new thread will make better posts. Your old altcoin thread is the most quality discussion in altcoin section. You don't need to throw away 231 pages of good thread, just delete the posts you think those are low-quality.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
September 13, 2014, 06:16:09 AM
#15
Viacoin.  This is the only alt besides monero that I'm currently watching and take seriously.  Another smart coin developed by btcdrak in the same vein as counterparty but without all the btc drama that comes with it.  Peter Todd was hired to help with the design and is going to be implementing tree chains into the Viacoin network which he believes will solve the 51% attack problem.

You can find the relevant info here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-via-viacoin-the-future-of-digital-currency-699278

The developers bring the same level of quality and commitment that the monero developers have brought to XMR imo.

Here is the live stream recorded of Peter Todd, BTCdrak, and many others discussion VIAcoin and Treechains...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8hTbfKAhfE

Also looks like Peter Todd is implementing "frozen coin" to VIA and BTC!  hugeee

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/510360423770898432

Let's add up VIA's score:

1. Is the coin delivering a relevant technological breakthrough as the first legitimate instance of the code?
++yes - 2 points (clearinghouse and treechains)

2. Does the coin have a developer team of several people, with at least 2 public people?
++Yes - 2 points (Peter Todd, Grynn San, and drak are well known)

3. Is the software open source?
++Yes - 2 points (https://github.com/viacoin/viacoin)

4. Involvement of Bitcoin whales/legendaries/hero members?
++Yes, so much that it inspires both awe and hate - 2 points (Otoh, Peter Todd, and myself)

5. What % of the eventual market cap is held by the 3 largest staked devs?
++<3% - 2 points (http://www.richlist.eu/viacoin)

6. Was there a premine/instamine/ninjamine/..?
++0-1% - 2 points (presale of Block One was exemplary and successfully prevented insta/ninja/nerd mines)

7. What % of coins are mined in the first year?
++<20% - 2 points (http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/07/viacoin-distribution-model.html)

8. Was there lying/deception at any point in the launch, eg. concerning pre(etc.)mine?
++no - 2 points (http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/08/viacoin-presale-launch.html)

9. What's the marketcap?(* free float only)
+TOP-20 marketcap - 1 point (#14 at http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/views/filter-non-mineable-and-premined/)

10. What's the trading volume?
-less - 0 points

11. What's the emission (daily inflation measured by mktvalue)?
-less - 0 points

VIA tally = 17 Pietila Points

Monero tally = 18   Cool

VIA loses points for being small, but a tiny cap doubles more easily...
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Who cares?
September 12, 2014, 01:19:28 AM
#14
Viacoin.  This is the only alt besides monero that I'm currently watching and take seriously.  Another smart coin developed by btcdrak in the same vein as counterparty but without all the btc drama that comes with it.  Peter Todd was hired to help with the design and is going to be implementing tree chains into the Viacoin network which he believes will solve the 51% attack problem.

You can find the relevant info here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-via-viacoin-the-future-of-digital-currency-699278

The developers bring the same level of quality and commitment that the monero developers have brought to XMR imo.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
September 11, 2014, 10:17:29 AM
#13
Counterparty is a boring subject, so many ways to issue stocks know. We already knows this works.

-->

It is certainly a needed service in this world where you can trust no one, especially not with your crypto currencies. Thinking about the latest Localbitcoins hack where one attacker fooled the hosting support by a spoofed email address. I am sure there are 100s of more examples.

Do you realise the whole point of CounterParty is not simply a way to issue stocks. (The platform already does much more than that) but to eliminate counterparty risk? -- i.e taking steps to solve the 'trust no one' part

The whole stock issuance thing isn't that boring and we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to applications of it. Plenty of people lost money when SEC swooped in closing 2 major Bitcoin securities platforms fairly recently, and prior to that the closure of GLBSE lost a lot of people a lot of money, It was a big dent to the bitcoin ecosystem . At the moment we are left with couple of securities platforms, one which has already stole a few million dollars worth of BTC and continues to scam people, the other options are barely more attractive. Another requires a 30BTC deposit to sign up unless you want to work with a broker, requires familiarity of GPG and doesn't actually have much to trade there beyond what the owner issued themselves. The owner seems to regularly 'fluff' the trading volume but this is overlooked by the tight knit group of people that actually trade there.  The last one, based anonymously in Panama has unknown ownership and seems to have a knack for losing investors money on everything they've listed ever, including their own issuances, reports that don't quite add up and also randomly goes offline at the most needed moments.

 With a decentralised platform you don't have to worry about your accumulated dividends going missing because of the owner playing fractional reserve-- they come directly to your wallet and everything is on-chain. You don't have to worry about some agency in USA freezing the site down, because the data is propogated through the blockchain.  There is no single point of failure. It's not just security issuance but crowfunding without restriction that's easily enabled here.

Next is decentralised exchange of smart property

You can trade a counterparty asset (which could be BTC vended in) for another asset (say gold, USD, or another alt like LTC) on the blockchain and you don't have to worry about the other party making good on the trade. The trade can be escrowed natively by the protocol.  Now CounterParty has multisig, from 1 of 2 to 3 of 3 it can support mediators/auditors, escrow agents and other such independent co-signees



You don't have to place the same trust in the protocol as you place in the trust of an exchange oprtator. Whether said operator maliciously steal your funds or claims to get hacked by weak security practices the result is the same- you've been robbed of your funds. With CounterParty the private keys & the power is in your hands. Just like the power is in your hands holding bitcoin, instead of PayPal or Visa. I imagine it's what Satoshi intended in the first place, with the bitcoin markets features being included in early bitcoin source.

The losses the community has suffered due to weak centralised single points of failure like MT gox add up to the hundreds of millions, easily.  The point some people seem to miss about counterparty is that it can massively enhance the utility (and therefore, the value) of the bitcoin blockchain beyond simply pushing 'dumb' payments. If the value of the blockchain is increased, so will be the 'shares' in that blockchain; BTC


You can find the same sentiment echoed from Bank of englands bulletin:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q3digitalcurrenciesbitcoin1.pdf

Quote
1) How this was determined to be a positive -- (it seems backwards?)

Quote
11. What's the emission (daily inflation measured by mktvalue)?
TOP-5 emission - 2 points
TOP-20 emission - 1 point
less - 0 points

Currently all cryptos still want to attract more investors. This is easier if there are more coins being made. Few want to come to a crowded table, or buy into a pyramid scheme in its late stage. The absolute amount of money that the coin absorbs every day is a proof that it is wanted by the market.

Quote
2) How we would be privvy to this information on coins without auditable ledgers. Or in cases where we have ledgers that are transparent but care has been taken to obfuscate 'disproportionate' stakes. Secondly Is there a measurable
difference between 3 largest staked whales and 3 largest staked devs in terms of perception?

Quote
5. What % of the eventual market cap is held by the 3 largest staked devs?
<3% - 2 points
3-10% - 1 point
>10% - 0 points

Hearsay is quite enough. Without specially trying to obtain the knowledge, I have heard a lot about the situation concerning different coins/devs, and the information can be compiled.

There is a thread that tells how it is better that whales own the coins than the devs.

BUT: people can not be categorized. Rather often, the same person is both a dev and a whale. And the issue is not to alienate these interdependent groups from each other, rather point to the problem of ((il)legitimate) free money that is typically the reason for the devs' large stashes. If there is an unfair launch lied about, and the dev has coins as a result, that will not bring a blessing to the project. Even if the dev has created his stash honestly, if it is without due payment, it is a problem. Even if the dev has mined his stash in an open market, without any spot or blemish, to support the coin, over the years, just by the virtue that it is too big, it is a problem. See: Satoshi.


Nice response. Actually I agree with the statement that the same person can be both a dev and a whale and the general assumptions there about being too specific.

I didn't initially understand high inflation being a good thing, because in certain cases you have tokens (not really a 'coin' or a currency) which are currently not being inflated- in fact they are deflationary in the sense the tokens are required for a specific task, and the more utility those tokens get, the more attractive they can become for a store of value.

In that case it seems llogical to detract points because they aren't currently being heavily inflated by a proof-of-work process, But I can understand that evidence of the market readily absorbing mined coins, serves to demonstrate the demand for that coin - perhaps difficult to gauge how many are primarily investing during a period of high inflation in preparation for a drastic decline in emission however, and how demand would look like towards the end of that cycle.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
September 11, 2014, 09:52:53 AM
#12
List seems fairly concise,

Even too concise...
...I'm thinking of grouping it to 3 main categories:

- Technical innovation and quality of code, first-mover legitimacy

- Legitimacy and fairness of launch, distribution, devs, lies/scam

- Actual economy and market situation, how the coin IS used in the economy

(these should include the subpoints yes...Wink)

Quote
1) How this was determined to be a positive -- (it seems backwards?)

Quote
11. What's the emission (daily inflation measured by mktvalue)?
TOP-5 emission - 2 points
TOP-20 emission - 1 point
less - 0 points

Currently all cryptos still want to attract more investors. This is easier if there are more coins being made. Few want to come to a crowded table, or buy into a pyramid scheme in its late stage. The absolute amount of money that the coin absorbs every day is a proof that it is wanted by the market.

Quote
2) How we would be privvy to this information on coins without auditable ledgers. Or in cases where we have ledgers that are transparent but care has been taken to obfuscate 'disproportionate' stakes. Secondly Is there a measurable
difference between 3 largest staked whales and 3 largest staked devs in terms of perception?

Quote
5. What % of the eventual market cap is held by the 3 largest staked devs?
<3% - 2 points
3-10% - 1 point
>10% - 0 points

Hearsay is quite enough. Without specially trying to obtain the knowledge, I have heard a lot about the situation concerning different coins/devs, and the information can be compiled.

There is a thread that tells how it is better that whales own the coins than the devs.

BUT: people can not be categorized. Rather often, the same person is both a dev and a whale. And the issue is not to alienate these interdependent groups from each other, rather point to the problem of ((il)legitimate) free money that is typically the reason for the devs' large stashes. If there is an unfair launch lied about, and the dev has coins as a result, that will not bring a blessing to the project. Even if the dev has created his stash honestly, if it is without due payment, it is a problem. Even if the dev has mined his stash in an open market, without any spot or blemish, to support the coin, over the years, just by the virtue that it is too big, it is a problem. See: Satoshi.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
September 11, 2014, 09:31:01 AM
#11
List seems fairly concise,   Could OP clarify these points

1) How this was determined to be a positive -- (it seems backwards?)

Quote
11. What's the emission (daily inflation measured by mktvalue)?
TOP-5 emission - 2 points
TOP-20 emission - 1 point
less - 0 points

2) How we would be privvy to this information on coins without auditable ledgers. Or in cases where we have ledgers that are transparent but care has been taken to obfuscate 'disproportionate' stakes. Secondly Is there a measurable
difference between 3 largest staked whales and 3 largest staked devs in terms of perception?

Quote
5. What % of the eventual market cap is held by the 3 largest staked devs?
<3% - 2 points
3-10% - 1 point
>10% - 0 points
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 11, 2014, 08:19:54 AM
#10
actually you re-started this topic to cover up your nazi style censorship rules you posted on the old topic.

you said like 3 lines quickly about how this is your first altcoin (Monero)
than you went on and on and on and on and on and on about how there is no free speech etc on your topic with a wall of text from hell LOL

and now you deleted it because you have been getting made fun of.. deal with it sweet heart Wink

but hey nice try trying to twist shit around and play games galore about it.. only problem is we all seen it buddy lol

and this right here show cases the scammy deceitful tactics and games these Monero guys play here NON STOP ..they are dishonest !
which should be a warning to stay way from their crap..

http://lifehacker.com/5953755/what-exactly-is-freedom-of-speech-and-how-does-it-apply-to-the-internet

There´s a nice article which explains pretty well why all you have just written is utter crap and bullshit.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
September 11, 2014, 08:12:57 AM
#9
actually you re-started this topic to cover up your nazi style censorship rules you posted on the old topic.
So... post in another topic, maybe?
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
September 11, 2014, 07:51:25 AM
#8
actually you re-started this topic to cover up your nazi style censorship rules you posted on the old topic.

you said like 3 lines quickly about how this is your first altcoin (Monero)
than you went on and on and on and on and on and on about how there is no free speech etc on your topic with a wall of text from hell LOL

and now you deleted it because you have been getting made fun of.. deal with it sweet heart Wink

but hey nice try trying to twist shit around and play games galore about it.. only problem is we all seen it buddy lol

and this right here show cases the scammy deceitful tactics and games these Monero guys play here NON STOP ..they are dishonest !
which should be a warning to stay way from their crap..
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 250
English Motherfucker do you speak it ?
September 11, 2014, 06:25:57 AM
#7
Counterparty is a boring subject, so many ways to issue stocks know. We already knows this works.
What is more interesting to discuss is decentralized hosting and AI. So far it looks like the idea is just out there and no one has successfully managed to come with a complete working system.

The first two altcoins that comes to mind is Maidsafecoin and Storjcoinx. Maidsafecoin seems to be the most legit project at the moment after what I can tell, Coindesk made interviews with them and the crowdsale was finished a long time ago. Storjcoinx has a different story. The idea of Storj was first coined by Gmaxwell back in 2011.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.642768
Code:
StorJ instances can purchase other resources that it needs:
it can use APIs to talk to namecoin exchanges in order to buy
namecoin for conversion into DNS names, or purchase graphic
design via bitcoin gateways to mechanical turk. (Through A/B testing
it can measure the effectiveness of a design without actually understanding
it itself).
This idea is a bit more futuristic than what Storjcoinx is trying to archive in it's current form. Gmaxwell, when asked about this, replied to me "The person doing told me they'd like to make it a reality, mined my brain a fair bit, and asked if they could have the name and domain, and I was supportive and then they trurned it around to some altcoin pump scam."

The person Gmaxwell is talking about is super3, and has yet to come out with anything other than a new "token" that will be used as currency when Storj network goes live. Gmaxwell have all the reasons to be skeptic since nothing is released and the only thing that has happened so far is the creators got a paycheck in the pocket before anything concrete was released. However, I do believe the project is legitimate and something will come from it. Question is if Maidsafecoin will be a better product.

It is certainly a needed service in this world where you can trust no one, especially not with your crypto currencies. Thinking about the latest Localbitcoins hack where one attacker fooled the hosting support by a spoofed email address. I am sure there are 100s of more examples.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
September 11, 2014, 06:17:44 AM
#6
I will delete everything so far...

...soon


This is a motion to get back to the original Altcoin Observer, and there most of the coins were labeled as copy, shit, p&d and even scamcoins from the onset. This seems to be the truth so there is no way out of it.

It is but natural that the supporters of those coins want to gain publicity and legitimacy that they are being discussed here. For the same reason I want to moderate them away, as the mention of them is already helping their cause.

It's quite normal that the OP decides which coins are allowed. In DOGE thread they talk about DOGE, etc..

Since my understanding of the altcoins may need update, now is the time to promote your coin. Before wasting your time on promoting something that does not fulfill my criteria, consider the following "beauty points" where "NaC" means that something is not a coin in my opinion and does not belong here:


1. Is the coin delivering a relevant technological breakthrough as the first legitimate instance of the code?
yes - 2 points
whether "relevant", "first" or "legitimate" applies, is still not clear - 1 point
no - 0 points

2. Does the coin have a developer team of several people, with at least 2 public people?
Yes - 2 points
Lacking - 1 point
Single pseudonymous dev - 0 points

3. Is the software open source?
Yes - 2 points
Mostly, with good reason - 1 point
Lacking - 0 points

4. Involvement of Bitcoin whales/legendaries/hero members?
Yes, so much that it inspires both awe and hate - 2 points
Yes, non-insider w/l/h members have bought into the coin - 1 point
No, or less than in other coins with same market cap - 0 points

5. What % of the eventual market cap is held by the 3 largest staked devs?
<3% - 2 points
3-10% - 1 point
>10% - 0 points

6. Was there a premine/instamine/ninjamine/..?
0-1% - 2 points
1-5% - 1 points
>5% - 0 points

7. What % of coins are mined in the first year?
<20% - 2 points
20-50% - 1 point
50-100% or non-mineable - 0 points

8. Was there lying/deception at any point in the launch, eg. concerning pre(etc.)mine?
no - 2 points
issues were so insignificant as to not want to group them with the real scammers - 1 point
yes - 0 points

9. What's the marketcap?(* free float only)
TOP-5 marketcap - 2 points
TOP-20 marketcap - 1 point
less - 0 points

10. What's the trading volume?
TOP-5 volume - 2 points
TOP-20 volume - 1 point
less - 0 points

11. What's the emission (daily inflation measured by mktvalue)?
TOP-5 emission - 2 points
TOP-20 emission - 1 point
less - 0 points

Now I calculate that my picks, Bitcoin gets 21 points and Monero gets 18 points.


Soon the list of allowed coins will be fixed and locked.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
September 11, 2014, 05:35:57 AM
#5
to put this thread in the right direction I want to discuss counterparty/xcp which started in january 2014:

the protocol:
it is a financial protocol build on top of bitcoin: it includes buildung assets, betting, contract for differences etc. pp.
 
the creation of the token:
the creation of the token was done by a proof of burn: the bitcoins were sent to an unspendable adress and in return the burners got xcp. approxiametely 2,1 million tokens were created. they are slightly deflationary due to the cost of creating an asset (0,5 xcp)

the function of the token:
unlike bitcoin, the token can be taken in escrow within the bitcoin blockchain. this has serious implications for betting, cfds etc.

the team:
https://www.counterparty.co/team/

it is a non-anonymous team which has put great effort in building the protocol, keeping highest moral standards, being visible on several bitcoin conferences and especially trying to network outside of bitcointalk.

the progress:

well I followed the project over the entire time and they really build a remarkable protocol and somehow managed to become bigger than its biggest competitor mastercoin. they are in contact with overstock, who has serious interest in building an asset on top of the network. several crowdfundings already happened on top of counterparty.
regarding the token, I had serious doubts that they are really needed and that they are plan for using the token as the native currency within the network really works. you can use bitcoin whereever it is possible. the token was for the most time quite illiquid but now the market got a higher liqudity (well not today Cheesy ). the number of transactions, following http://www.blockscan.com/

I only hold a small amount of xcp in my portfolio, so this is not bagholders shilling, but my compliment to the xcp team for building this protocol. if the token xcp really gets useful, I still have doubts, but I think they have a long term interest in building the platform and maybe their plan that their native currency finds its place will work out.

opinions regarding counterparty?
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
September 11, 2014, 05:03:02 AM
#4
No shilling of copycoins

So no Monero allowed?

Beat me to it.

The posts may well get deleted (no objection there) but the point remains.

OP should clearly define what a copycoin entails. Since clearly he promotes Monero, outline why XMR, being one of the highest profile recent git clones is the exception to the rule in order to retain some semblance (or at least the illusion) of neutrality.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
September 11, 2014, 04:55:04 AM
#3
No shilling of copycoins

So no Monero allowed?

I also vote Monero should be banned
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
September 11, 2014, 04:32:29 AM
#2
No shilling of copycoins

So no Monero allowed?
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
September 11, 2014, 03:02:10 AM
#1
The thread needs to be reset due to average post quality going down, a phenomenon that seems impossible to be reversed with or without hurting feelings.

So may I present to you: The thread in the original spirit of the Altcoin Observer. With thoughtful analysis, fact-based conclusions, actual research, and the like.

No shilling of copycoins, no trolling, no hate, no chatter, no technical problems. The reason why Altcoins are Observed in this thread is to allow readers to develop a factual understanding on how to allocate your cryptostash between coins. It seems investor-oriented. But that is only because that is the only decision most of us can make (apart from talking).

As usual, the moderation will be really strong in the first 50 pages, to the point that posts are deleted based on being too long and too short and what not. It is the enhance the reader experience. The unedited version as usual is on bitcointa.lk.
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