Topic: Russian Empire -- RSFSR under USSR -- Russian Federation (Read 4444 times)

If Russia wanted war, you would have had it already in 2014. Well, USSR would not have stopped at Berlin in 1945, come to think of it.

Russia wants peace. Russia wants cooperation and trade. Russia wants that its lands are not constantly viewed with hunger by the trans-atlantic pack of hungry wolves. You should leave the cold war wordings behind.

As for "pan-slavist aspirations"... What's wrong with that? What's wrong with reminding the Slavs that they are, in fact, Slavs? What's wrong with wanting people to be friendlier to each other? What's wrong with wanting them to remember their common history, culture, language? Linguistically, a Russian can read Bulgarian or Serbian almost without a vocabulary, and Slovakian with only a minor effort of imagination...

The only "wrong" in that is from the viewpoint of the Western "divide and conquer" strategy that's been systematically applied to the Slavic people, creating "different" by concentrating on some minor, local, variations, rather then promoting cooperation by pointing out the huge commonalities - something that Russia should do.

In my view, Russia has not been doing nearly enough on that front to even warrant an accusation of having "pan-slavist aspirations". Russia should have been much more proactive and forward.

For those interested in an example on how those divisions were implemented, I can recommend reading my translation of the article:

Galician Intellectuals Wishing to Deprive Ukrainian of the Cyrillic Alphabet
http://stanislavs.org/galician-intellectuals-wishing-to-deprive-ukrainian-of-the-cyrillic-alphabet/

and Lada Ray's extended commentary to the article:
How to Reformat People’s Consciousness and Keep them as Obedient Slaves
https://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/how-to-reformat-peoples-consciousness-and-keep-them-as-obedient-slaves/

Russia like a bear cornered.
Decreased oil prices caused a big economic crisis in Russia.

This is a dispassionate chronological look at the history of Galicia and Malorossia, and how those Russian lands were being gradually turned into Ukraine. The film presents a trove of documents, citations, documentary footage and lives it to the viewer to draw conclusions. The documentary also takes an introspective look at where Russia went wrong with its handling of the budding extreme nationalism in those lands at the turn of the 19th-20th century, and introspection is a good sign – a nation, which does not view itself as exceptional, which has the capacity to understand its mistakes, has a hope for the future…

Russia like a bear cornered.
Decreased oil prices caused a big economic crisis in Russia.
But at same time Russia has never given up its Pan-slavist aspiration. Russia wants war because it wants to descent to hot waters. Russian economy is in a bad situation and a war machine gives economy a new fresh breath.  

In 2008 Russia forgave $12 billion of Iraqi debt; $4.5 billion to Libya, $4.7 billion to Algiers. But what about Russia itself? Russia repaid all Soviet debts, took on all the debts of the former republics, and more

Meanwhile, the lenders got from Russia not only all the debts of the USSR. France did not forget about the debts of tsarist Russia and in 1996  received part of the amount. While the heirs of the British company Lena Goldfields, which was engaged in concessions-based gold mining in Siberia, received from us $65 million, although it seemed that after the cancellation of the contract by the Bolsheviks in 1929, they could not count on it. Moreover, we even repaid someone else's debt! For example, Russia participated in the cancellation of Liberia's debt ($700 million.) to the World Bank. And Moscow gave no credits to Liberia - our money went as a compensation for Liberia to the World Bank deposit as coming from "from other countries" - to the World Bank, which is located in n the United States and which manager is appointed by the US government...

From the site above, there is an interesting document by parliamentary Andronov, who from the besieged Parliament, on the day before the massacre conducted negotiation with representatives of the AMERICAN embassy, trying to prevent the bloodshed. Americans anyway gave the order to open fire, he says, adding that the bloodshed in Moscow in 1993 was directly authorized by Clinton.

 I just find it ridiculous that one kind of hegemony can be "better" than another kind. Whether it's the US interfering in the Middle East or Russia interfering in border countries, imperialism is imperialism. These nations ought to be leaving independent nations alone for the good of the planet.

I hope Russia does something about US terrorist plundering of the middle east and now Ukraine.... Even if it means everyone on earth dies - we need to reboot humanity everyone in the west is evil and just thinking about themselves.

However, the real color revolution was the February 1917 coup/revolution that unseated Nikolay II and ended the Russian monarchy. Without those Russian oligarchs and Tsar’s relatives who came out wearing red bands in February, plotting to unseat Nikolay II, the later Bolshevik Revolution wouldn’t have happened. Without the direct British agent Kerensky (proven fact Kerensky himself brags about in his memoirs) and his Temporary Government (Vremennoe Previtelstvo) of oligarchs that destroyed what was left of the country’s infrastructure in the short several months between March and October, the Bolshevik revolution wouldn’t have happened either.

The 1917 Russian Empire situation looked a lot like Ukraine’s today, in other words, total madness – albeit on an incomparably larger scale. The Bolshevik Revolution of November 7, 1917 capitalized on the ensuing mayhem and went much beyond the color revolution goals, in fact breaking out of the mold and building an alternative system to rival the West.

But yes, February and November 1917 were in fact 2 parts of one mega-coup.

Not in dispute is that as Russia descended into chaos during the First World War, treasures were shifted in 1915 from the capital city of Petrograd (now St Petersburg) to Kazan, east of Moscow, and later controlled by anti-Bolshevik forces, for safe-keeping.

In the months leading up to July 1918, when abdicated ruler Nicholas II and his family were shot on Lenin's orders, it is estimated that 73 per cent of the world's largest gold reserves were held in this Tatar city on the Volga River before most was shifted further east into Siberia.

Grainy pictures from the vaults of a Kazan bank highlight that gold and other other precious metals of untold value were held here.

[Quotes snipped]

 I just find it ridiculous that one kind of hegemony can be "better" than another kind. Whether it's the US interfering in the Middle East or Russia interfering in border countries, imperialism is imperialism. These nations ought to be leaving independent nations alone for the good of the planet.

For almost a year, the Ukrainian events were of deep concern to of us, the descendants of white emigration, especially since in contrast to the people around us, we, due of our origin, have access to comprehensive information. Knowledge of the recent past, namely the past of the pre-revolutionary Russia, gives us the opportunity, and with it the duty, to expose the obvious historical falsifications that led to the current drama in Ukraine. In the face of heightened tensions in the Donbass as well as in the international relations we come to a conclusion is that the aggressive hostility, unfolding now against Russia is devoid of any rationality. The policy of double standards is above any limits.

Russia is accused of all crimes, without a priori evidence it is declared guilty, while other countries are shown an amazing lenience, in particular with regard to observing human rights.

We in no way refuse to protect those values upon which our ancestors brought us up, doomed to exile after the 1917 revolution. We do not refuse neither the condemnation of the criminal acts of the Bolsheviks and their successors, nor restoring of the historical truth about that terrible time. But this does not mean that we can put up with with the slander that daily falls on modern Russia, its leadership and its president, which is sanctioned and gets dirt thrown at it, contrary to elementary common sense. This self-destructive for the European countries ridiculous idea prompts to serious thought all those, who see in it the desire of the West to rather prevent the development of Russia, than to settle the crisis in Ukraine. Especially ridiculous are the systematic attack on everything, that is somehow related to the “Russian world”: we are talking about the historical, geographical, linguistic, cultural and spiritual realities of the great civilization that has enriched the world and that we are rightfully proud of. We also resent the shameful silence of the European official institutions and the media with regard to the brutal bombing that Ukrainian army, supported by military groups under Nazi symbols, pours in Donbass on civilians and civilian infrastructure. Such silence is perceived by the Kiev authorities as providing them with full right to continue killing and destruction. For months, children and old people are killed or seriously injured, and prisoners are tortured. And now the Kiev government has in addition introduced a complete blockage (gas, electricity, railways, pensions, salaries, medication, institutions, hospitals, etc.), to finally destroy the region, which al the while it declares to be an integral part of its territory. And how not to condemn violent acts committed by the supporters of Kiev in relation to the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine?! Priests are persecuted, forced to flee and even killed; fifty temples have been bombed, of which twenty were completely destroyed; believers are persecuted. Where are the European values?

We can not put up with the daily slander against modern Russia that is falling upon us.

Despite the complete rejection of the Soviet Union, our fathers and grandfathers greatly grieved the suffering endured by the Russian people during World War II. In turn, we will not stay as indifferent and silent witnesses in the face of the systematic destruction of the population of Donbass, blatant Russophobia and hypocritical approaches, completely contrary to the interests of our beloved Europe. We really want to hope that the countries that once gave shelter to our families, will again take the path of prudence and impartiality.

Paris, November 26, 2014
P.S.

This letter is compiled by the Prince and Princess Dimitri and Tamara Shahovskaya, with the initiative being supported by the group “Russian Bridge”, established in February 2011 by the descendants of white emigration.

Published online on November 26, 2014, this letter was supported by more than one hundred representatives of princely and aristocratic families from different countries. Every day, more and more letters of “solidarity with Russia in the hour of the Ukrainian tragedy” come to e-mail [email protected]

He-he. I wasn't very agitated. Yes, that logic is flawed (and my comment further showed it), and I would actually take objection to NUFCrichard's reply saying that "Russia invaded other countries". Peace.

Calm down Ruski. I wasn't defending the USA's imperialism, I was pointing out how flawed the quoted logic is.

Even if Russia has invaded other countries, we can surely agree that they are only border countries that are of major strategic importance to them. They don't get involved in frivolous conflicts around the world like certain other groups of nations.

Why russian keep invade other country?
I don't understand.
At present, invade other country can't bring any to their own people.

Why russian keep invade other country?
I don't understand.
At present, invade other country can't bring any to their own people.

Let me play a devil's advocate role for a while.
There are a couple of reason for why some set equation sign between Russia and USSR.

Before the coup d'etat of 1917

Now, taking a step back, it is a sad irony that Soviet ideology was built on the works of Marks and Engels - two vocal russophobes, who in their works wrote that Russia must be broken up. Lenin, a half-German, was also a russophobe with a personal grudge against the royal family. It is now wonder that when Lenin came to power through the coup d'etat, he promptly set about breaking up Russia. Ironically, he is the founding father of at least 4 states: Ukraine, Finland, Latvia and Estonia. About 1.5 million Russian people died as a result of orders that can be traced to Lenin. He also pushed for abolishing Cyrillic alphabet and Westernising Russia, The russophobic policy later prevailed in the Soviet Union. While other republics could demonstrate their national identities, it was unaceptable to declare oneself as Russian, you were immediately stamped as chauvinist. There were many other manifistations of russophobia in USSR, Russian national conciousness was seen as a threat to the existence of USSR's elites.

Nevertheless, all the territories that were part of greater Russia (with the exception of Finland) later came under the umbrella of Soviet Union, and Russian was the lingua franca of the USSR. So, from the outside it very much looked like Russia, while politically, on the inside, Russia was bleeding its lands...

The use of Russian language is persistent today.

We seem to support every ethnic group that secedes from Russia, but no ethnic group that secedes from a successor state. This is rank Russophobia masquerading as democratic principle.

What do the people of Crimea, Transnistria, Georgia, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Luhansk, or Donetsk want? Do we really know? Do we care?

And what have the Russians done to support secessionist movements to compare with our 78-day bombing of Serbia to rip away her cradle province of Kosovo, which had been Serbian land before we were a nation?

I just don't find it credible that Russia wasn't calling the shots politically in the USSR. Do you have (respected) sources to substantiate such a claim? I studied US-Soviet relations during the Cold War in college, and asking me to believe the the Russian satellites were politically and militarily more important than Moscow is a great stretch, to put it politely.

   Russia is the ideal scapegoat seeking to blame others for their own problems
    Russia has no significant lobby in Western societies
    Cultural prejudice goes back for 1000 years
    English russophobia has been virulent for centuries - going back to imperial competition
    Resentment against pogroms of Jewish immigrants in the West contributed and contibutes to a cultural stereotype of Russia
    Russia has to learn to effectively argue against this ongoing prejudice in the court of world public opinion

Nationalistic revisionism at best.  Riga was the largest city under the Swedish Empire and later it didn't need Russian help in industrialization.  On the contrary, most of the early industry in the Russian Empire was in Congress Poland, Baltic states and Finland and this technical expertise and capital came from the Baltic sea trade network.


As for Central Asia - this might be true for Tajikistan but countries like Kazakhstan have cities like Astana that were largely built after 1990 and are more modern than anything you can find in Russia.  Vladimir Putin himself should know that - he was somebody who grew up in the squalors of St. Petersburg and the squalors are still present in Russia.   Typical household in Russia often consists of two working adults making less than $10,000 a year and real estate prices in the large cities rivals California.

What I am saying is that Russia under USSR was a shadow of its former self pre-1917 coup d'etat. Yes, the shots were called from Moscow, but who were in power there then?

How was the money distributed? Russia (RSFSR as it was called then) dissolved politically into shadows during USSR era. It had its own government but it had little say over the running of RSFSR, unlike the local governments of the other republics.

Note that RSFSR lost its territories on the whim of the leaders of USSR and through other machinations, without consulting the government and population of RSFSR. For example, Kazahstan and Kirgizija became republics within USSR (and are now separate states), but before 1930s they were a part of RSFSR. Lenin wrote off Novorossia to Ukraine. Stalin presented Georgia (his homeland) with Abhazia and South-Sossetia. Hrushjov made a generous personal gift to Ukraine, bypassing USSR's constitution and not consulting with RSFSR government - Crimea.

RSFSR was the economic donor of USSR to its own detriment. Whole cities were built in the Central Asian republics and Baltics were industrialised, while Russia coughed up the money. (Interestingly, only Belarus managed to preserve the industry and economy that it got from USSR. All the other republics squandered their inheritance.)