Topic: Ryder One - Worst Hardware wallet ever? (Read 195 times)

Yeah, you are right, but I still think it's stupid if only way to get another ''recovery tag'' is to buy whole new hardware wallet package, and having only one recovery tag is also not a good option.

It's expensive since it's not only 10 recovery tags, but rather


It would be challenge for other manufacture though since their product usually have input port (e.g. USB or microSD) and require user to close all ports properly.

Ryder released prices for Ryder One hardware wallet, and it's funny to see that this is only kickstarter project, with prices ranging from $218 to  $2,180 with discount included
Most expensive price is including ten recovery tags, but this is still way to expensive for hardware wallet, and it's going to be even more expensive after release without discount.
They currently collected €19,813 from 101 backers and their goal is €34,562.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryder-wallet/ryder-one-secure-wallet-strong-device-simple-transactions

One thing that I like about Ryder is water resistant IP68 that is similar like for modern smartphones, and I think other manufacturers like Trezor and Passport should add that on their devices.

"Ryder One - Worst Weirdest Hardware wallet ever?". At least for me, this device tops the list of weirdest hardware wallets.

Oh, how well everything started out in your description.

But already at this point I began to have doubts about this device. Any mobile App is a weak point when interacting with crypto assets. Why do I need Ryder One if I can download any other crypto app wallet? To play with Ryder One through NFC connection?

When asked why the assets remain inaccessible to relatives and friends (in case of restoration), the Ryder will most likely answer in order to avoid theft of crypto assets on their part. But at the same time they will keep silent that they themselves will have access to these crypto assets and in the event of, for example, your death, your friends and relatives will not be able to return your crypto assets and it will all remain on the company’s balance (which they can appropriate for themselves).

It doesn't take a genius to understand that one fine day this company will cease to exist and you will be left with nothing. Anyone willing to take a risk?

And for a tidy sum too. This begins to remind you of a double deception: first you pay for an overpriced device, and then you will be left without the contents of your wallet, after the company’s exit scam (just kind of go bankrupt or company will close), and nothing can be returned.

How long do you think this company will last and what kind of idiots very risky people will buy their devices?

This is a “nice” addition to the overall picture.

I came up with this numbers ($300 to $500) because they are currently offering $90 discount so price cant possible be $100 or $200.
They can even go nuts and put some crazy price because they use premium materials and different concept.
Maybe this is going to be most expensive hardware wallet in the world.

When did I ever say any hardware wallet is good just because it looks prety?
This is not a beauty content.

I think that Ryder is worse than Bitkey aka Block aka Square wallet.

All I'm saying is that making a wallet that doesn't require the user interacting with private keys or seed phrases might sound like a nice concept but it really depends on execution as to if it will be any more useful than any hardware wallet. The very principle of hardware wallets was that private keys and seed phrases are secured by the hardware it's held on. In fact any wallet would have a private key, just maybe use it differently. So if their goal is to not be able to export your private key, it might even be an anti-feature actually making things harder instead of bringing more innovation.

Seed phrases are easy to store in a secure enviroment, it shouldn't be scary or confusing to write down 12 words and keep it safe. Tapsafe recovery method by Ryder one is surely not a better solution and i don't even know how you can recover your wallet in another software or hardware wallet since you need to use their mobile application and tap Ryder one on your phone to recover your wallet.

Ryder one also requires the Ryder recovery tag to recover your wallet, and on their site they advise customers to have at least more than one recovery tag, it is much better to use a recommended HD wallet and back up your seed phrase in more than one secure location and recover it in compatible software and hardware wallets whenever you need to. Ryder are also including recovery by family or friends, which reminds me of Mixin safe.

All you need to backup is the seed phrase. Is that scary and confusing to you? I do not think it scary and confusing. If you are thinking of not being secure offline, you can use a passphrase. Having both backups differently and differently stored in different locations. All that is needed is to know what seed phrase and passphrase are which will not take you more than 5 minutes to read and understand.

If I have the hardware wallet like Passport or Keystone or many other ones, they have seed phrase that generates the private key and they are BIP39. I do not really understand what you mean here. Even if I like, I can decide to go online and import the seed phrase on an online wallet and spend my coins, but which make my wallet less secure and not recommended.

It "looks" pretty but I'd rather use a safe, ugly-looking hardware wallet than a nice-looking, fragile piggy bank.

If it's using Shamir Secret Sharing, then what exactly is it splitting? Is it still making HD wallets under the hood (since making multiple addresses using any experimental method is absurd) and just not showing the mnemonic phrases? Or is it dividing up an encrypted listof private keys generated on their own?

I wouldn't be quick to jump to conclusions, the concept is ok. Seed phrases and private keys are scary and confusing to the general public.

But also their marketing is misleading. There still has to be a private key. It's only that it will be stored in a way that the user doesn't have to interact with it.
Pretty much that's the concept of a hardware wallet too though. The security lies in its hardware features. You don't have to expose you private key with transactions as it's a separate device from what connects to the internet, with a different OS etc, that only communicates certain commands and can't be hacked via data connection for instance.

So the concept was there all along. I don't really understand from their marketing how they're going to improve on the hardware wallet concept to be perfectly honest. The only way to redeem themselves is if the hardware wallet is actually good. But it's going to take a while to be pen tested (if ever).

Absurd idea which goes something like this: you have 1000 bucks, you give them to your friends and  then, at dark days,  you running back  and beg for those bucks. Their "innovation" upstaged Ledger in the dumb & dumber contest.

One day, Zach Herbert, founder of Foundationdevices, said :  "I believe Bitkey is fundamentally flawed, provides terrible privacy and security, and should not come to market". I think the same can be applied to Ryder One.

I don't think I will be using one because I have to depend on other people for having and should be my personal wallet. I think there would be people who would like that kind of stuff that solves the problem of seed phrases, but it's really not a problem to some.

Since it will be launching on Kickstarter, you can have a big discount if you want that type of device but personally, I wouldn't use it.

It would be interesting if someone made a review about it here.

It seems that there is a fingerprint sensor used with the Ryder One to sign the message and broadcast it via phone, meaning that you are the only one able to broadcast the transaction or use your phone with the Ryder Recovery Tag as two Shamir Secret Sharing or purchase several Recovery Tags (the product comes with only one) and distribute them to your friends.

Their design is flawed, there is a single point of failure which is Ryder One, and I do not know if the user will be able to access the coins if there is a problem with that device.
Recovery Tags: Accessing them means accessing your currencies, and there is no additional security option such as Passphrases and hidden wallets.
The code is closed source.
wallet is expensive and you need to purchase additional Recovery Tags.

I watched a video on their website to know about the wallet more. On the video, it is said that backup can be done with the Ryder mobile application and the Ryder mobile tag. And the backup can be done by touching the two devices together which will take 60 seconds (but maybe less than 60 seconds, I do not know, but 60 second is what on the video). But also social circle can be used which requires your phone or recovery tag and two family members or friends.

I think we should not to determine if a hardware wallet is the worst or not using its physical appearance. I do not care if the hardware wallet is having IP68 water and dust resistant, I can not use it.

Also making use of shamir secret sharing and not having seed phrase backup which are also worst things about the wallet.

I don't think this would be the worst hardware wallet based on its appearance it looks the same as a smartwatch I checked their website and they mention IP68 which is the model name of a smartwatch.

Also, about the recovery process, it seems they want to collect more data from you and your friends since the wallet still requires a connection through NFC to send or receive data from their app we still do not know what data they sent and received between that wallet and the app.
That's the worst thing it doesn't even have supported wallets like Electrum and it does not have open-source code.
I believe the recovery process still required internet from the phone because the data is saved from their server databases which is obviously they are the only ones who have full control of your wallet.

According to what you posted, the company is only working to create a hardware wallet that will not make use of seed phrase, but instead be using friends and trusted people in the recovery process using Shamir secret sharing, not that the company want to eliminate seed phrase from (other) hardware wallets. That is not even possible. But definitely what you are discussing is clear to understand.

When I was reading this, I thought I could point out wallet like Muun which is a software wallet that does not make use of seed phrase backup, but after I later read about wallet recovery through friends and trusted people, this is another stupid wallet.

The wallet will not also make use of QR code and also can not be connected to other wallet like Electrum.

What we are seeing about hardware wallets is not good at all, see the reputed Trezor that have gone worse by adding coinjoin and later decided to make a hardware wallet with close source secure element, now is this another one that does not want to make use of seed phrase.

About this wallet, I am expecting a backdoor, or something similar in the future. Maybe there would be a time hardware wallets will go so bad that people will have to rely on airgapped devices. Airgapped devices and multisig wallet will always exist.

$300 to $500 will also be too expensive when there are better hardware wallets with the features and specifications that I like at $200.

I don't know if anyone heard about this, but there is one company who wants to eliminate seed phrases from hardware wallets, because they don't like them, so they created Ryder One device.

I wouldn't even call this a real hardware wallet, but Ryder One will be used for Bitcoin and they have secure element Infineon SLE78, so it fits hardware wallet category.

Ryder one has No seed phrases, No physical buttons, No ports, No Bluetooth, No Wi-Fi, and they claim this device is 100% tamper-proof.
Communication is done using NFC connection with Ryder Mobile App installed on smartphone.

Now comes the weird part.
Since they don't use seed phrases, they decided to include people social circle by adding trusted friends and family in recovery process, but assets remain inaccessible to them.
They are using Recovery Tags with their mobile app for creating backup, but that means you can't use this for any other hardware wallets.
I don't know about source code but I suspect it is closed source, so this is even worse than Jack Dorsey Block aka Square wallet or whatever new name they use.
Ryder One will be using Shamir Secret Sharing, and we talked many times before that this is inferior compared to Multisig setup and has single point of failure.


https://www.ryder.id/

What is the price going to be for this device we don't know yet, but let me give my prediction for something between $300 and $500.