Topic: S17 Pro Back from Repairs or Disrepair. (Read 648 times)
Success, Thank you.
I can order the 33ohm 0201s in low quantities ok. On the caps, Digi is 10,000 minimum and Mouser is out of stock - is there another reliable source I may be overlooking? Might try the shield, in addition to laying some 3M thermal protective tape down next time. Some make it look so easy.
Yup, those resistors are 33ohm 0201s, and the caps are 1uf 6.3V 0402s.
No way to remove or reflow the ASIC chip and not reflow the caps and resistors surrounding it. The large pads on the bottom of the chip sink heat to the board too well to be able to heat it up to the melting point and not melt the solder on the surrounding components.
No way to remove or reflow the ASIC chip and not reflow the caps and resistors surrounding it. The large pads on the bottom of the chip sink heat to the board too well to be able to heat it up to the melting point and not melt the solder on the surrounding components.
These are on the imperceptible scale until you put them under the scope. I had a heat shield surrounding the chip to protect against just this and bumped it - this is the result. I circled the ones missing in red and seem to match the ones you have circled. To confirm, these are 33ohms? I see there is a mix of 16v and 6.3v and .1uf and 1uf I am having referencing your image these are arranged differently than mine. I'm guessing the C86 and C84 are 1uf 6.3v each. Always, fantastic again helping narrow this down.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dTTemJ5p_tO1IKapT-JEEDsAXIpJRPOm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dTTemJ5p_tO1IKapT-JEEDsAXIpJRPOm/view?usp=sharing
Those are most likely 33ohm resistors. If not, they are 0 ohm. What leads on the asic do they connect to?
I'm pretty sure the ones I circled are 0201 resistors, ridiculously small ... like grain of sand small. It is defiantly a pain in the ass to get these on, you need some good tweezers.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ERJ-1GNJ330C/8343545
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ERJ-1GN0R00C/3982319
The caps are either 1uf or 0.1uf. I think they are 0402 size. These should work.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/kemet/C0402C104K4RACTU/789653
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cal-chip-electronics-inc/GMC04X7R105M6R3NT/13908742
I'm pretty sure the ones I circled are 0201 resistors, ridiculously small ... like grain of sand small. It is defiantly a pain in the ass to get these on, you need some good tweezers.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ERJ-1GNJ330C/8343545
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/ERJ-1GN0R00C/3982319
The caps are either 1uf or 0.1uf. I think they are 0402 size. These should work.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/kemet/C0402C104K4RACTU/789653
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cal-chip-electronics-inc/GMC04X7R105M6R3NT/13908742
Thanks Mikeywith, I saw that too and I think not going over this and avoiding this arrangement is the plan and wait for the AD's to become available. Wndsnb, I removed one of the chips and two of the smallest resistors (they had a black top with white core) blew off - one was labeled R2020 and the one next to it was a R2016. These are right next to the chip. I would assume that the R2016 is 201MΩ ± 1% and the R2020 is 202Ω ± 1%. Do you have any direction on how to find these on Mouser? Or do you have another source? Oh, and apparently I don't have the micro tweezers for this job what are you using for these things?
Edit: Looked on ZuesBTC to see if I could narrow it down but didn't find anyhting. Also nearby noticed C86 and C84 (ceramic capacitors?) were off so if you have leads on these types it would be appreciated.
Thanks again.
Edit: Looked on ZuesBTC to see if I could narrow it down but didn't find anyhting. Also nearby noticed C86 and C84 (ceramic capacitors?) were off so if you have leads on these types it would be appreciated.
Thanks again.
What miner do the AI chips go to? Just looked at the IOT store and just got more confused. This 53 pro came with AD's. They have AH, AI, and AG, is one better than the other?
As mentioned by wndsnb, they are interchangeable, but according to Zeusbtc you want to avoid using more than 4-5 of different chips on the same hash board, so if you can't find 1397AD for your S17 pro, you can get the AH,AI or AG version, but having more than 4-5 of them alongside the AD's will create issues and the hashboard might not function properly.
I'm not sure solder melting point is the issue with the original assembly. I'd guess either poor temperature profile or just faulty/expired solder paste. Many of the chips I remove show signs on the large pads that the solder never flowed enough.
Thanks for the temp. confirmation. Ha. That PIC chip. It amazes me how many things can go wrong with these and you really have to double-check your work.
The higher temp. approach is interesting and since the factory solder is so weak I think of a higher temp Sn/Ag solder paste to improve strength. At a cost.
The higher temp. approach is interesting and since the factory solder is so weak I think of a higher temp Sn/Ag solder paste to improve strength. At a cost.
Yeah ... pretty sure the chances of working with half the leads disconnected is pretty low... lol.
I use the same chipquick for the chips as well. Don't know what they use in the factory, but I think in some of the Bitmain repair manuals it mentions low temp (138DegC) for everything. I like using it because you can keep the temperatures lower so less chance of destroying a board. Although it does make putting heat sinks on a bit tricky, would be easier if the chips were attached with higher melting point solder.
I use the same chipquick for the chips as well. Don't know what they use in the factory, but I think in some of the Bitmain repair manuals it mentions low temp (138DegC) for everything. I like using it because you can keep the temperatures lower so less chance of destroying a board. Although it does make putting heat sinks on a bit tricky, would be easier if the chips were attached with higher melting point solder.
I was able to take a closer look at the PIC chip under microscope and seems that when the temperature sensor was replaced and reflowed it dislodged half of the pads on one side. So that half is just floating in the air. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that is where no PIC detected comes in.
For the other board, the chip with the fallen heat sink is going to be replaced but I am seeing conflicting information on what solder paste to use for chip replacement. I'm seeing some use 180deg. paste?
For the heatsink replacement: Amtech 138deg. low temp. SN42/Bi57.6/Ag0.4 Lead-free. And the Chip Quik you reccomended.
Solder wire: Kester "44" SN96/AG03/Cu.5 Lead-free.
For the chips: I'm confused here on what to use.
Could you recommend the best formula of paste solder and temp. for replacing chips? Do you know what temp. paste it is from the factory?
Would really appreciate your opinion on what solder I'm currently using and a direction for the chip paste.
Thanks again.
For the other board, the chip with the fallen heat sink is going to be replaced but I am seeing conflicting information on what solder paste to use for chip replacement. I'm seeing some use 180deg. paste?
For the heatsink replacement: Amtech 138deg. low temp. SN42/Bi57.6/Ag0.4 Lead-free. And the Chip Quik you reccomended.
Solder wire: Kester "44" SN96/AG03/Cu.5 Lead-free.
For the chips: I'm confused here on what to use.
Could you recommend the best formula of paste solder and temp. for replacing chips? Do you know what temp. paste it is from the factory?
Would really appreciate your opinion on what solder I'm currently using and a direction for the chip paste.
Thanks again.
Nope, no need to program the eeprom unless using stock firmware.
It will detect and read temp sensors.
If the pic is bad, nothing will work, so there isn't really anything to detect.
As far as how to replace chips, there is no correct answer. But I no longer tin the chips with a stencil. I was never able to reliably get a chip on that way and had to drag reflow the connections with an iron, or add solder paste and clean up after. So I started just adding some solder to the main power pads and not bothering with any solder on the pins. I leave solder on the PCB, and then add flux and drag-reflow the pins with an iron after flowing with a hot-air tool.
Every set of tools and every person's skills are different though, so you really just need to try different approaches and figure out what works the best for you and the tools you have.
It will detect and read temp sensors.
If the pic is bad, nothing will work, so there isn't really anything to detect.
As far as how to replace chips, there is no correct answer. But I no longer tin the chips with a stencil. I was never able to reliably get a chip on that way and had to drag reflow the connections with an iron, or add solder paste and clean up after. So I started just adding some solder to the main power pads and not bothering with any solder on the pins. I leave solder on the PCB, and then add flux and drag-reflow the pins with an iron after flowing with a hot-air tool.
Every set of tools and every person's skills are different though, so you really just need to try different approaches and figure out what works the best for you and the tools you have.
I see, the copper delaminated from one of the chips with the dislodged heat sink and will have to be replaced. I've concluded this copper film and the solder is well below sub-par as you suggest after working with it. Thank you for the insight/method of reflowing the chip with the factory solder on the chip with the chisel tip. I wonder if it's also sometimes necessary to add a little solder paste to replace the solder lost on the bottom of the dislodged heat sink. It would be great to see a picture of your perfect reflow on a chip for reference.
I do have 3 dissimilar questions I hope you could shed some light on:
1. If not running Bitmain stock firmware would you ever need the EEPROM flashing option that ARC offers?
2. I know you touched one this earlier but does the Bitmain repair center detect other issues like bad PIC chips and temp sensor errors? To what level does ARC do this?
3. After taking the bad chip off I noticed on one of ARC's videos that they didn't use a tin and new solder paste to put the new chip in. (that I sometimes see in videos). They added some flux and re-heated the old solder there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE-YJRTZezk
Edit: If I go with ARC I will ask them about the editing of those EEPROM values. So it might be a good option to add.
I do have 3 dissimilar questions I hope you could shed some light on:
1. If not running Bitmain stock firmware would you ever need the EEPROM flashing option that ARC offers?
2. I know you touched one this earlier but does the Bitmain repair center detect other issues like bad PIC chips and temp sensor errors? To what level does ARC do this?
3. After taking the bad chip off I noticed on one of ARC's videos that they didn't use a tin and new solder paste to put the new chip in. (that I sometimes see in videos). They added some flux and re-heated the old solder there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE-YJRTZezk
Edit: If I go with ARC I will ask them about the editing of those EEPROM values. So it might be a good option to add.
I have seen a few heatsinks come loose without taking the copper plating with it, but for the most part I'd say the main reason why the heatsinks come off is because the copper plating delaminated. The delamination is a manufacturing defect, you can clean solder off without taking the plating off if the chip is not defective. This is what chips with delaminated plating look like:
Sometimes the heatsink was never attached very well, and the solder will just break off, or the chip got hot enough that the solder melted. So in those cases, the solder will still be on the chip, and you can clean it up and re-attach the heatsink with no issue. I also don't generally remove all the solder on the chip, I just add a glob of flux and reflow the solder with a soldering iron (with a good-sized chisel tip) so it is smooth and covers the whole chip. If some or all of the copper plating is gone, then the solder will just bubble up and it will be impossible to get it to flow over the whole surface of the chip.
Sometimes the heatsink was never attached very well, and the solder will just break off, or the chip got hot enough that the solder melted. So in those cases, the solder will still be on the chip, and you can clean it up and re-attach the heatsink with no issue. I also don't generally remove all the solder on the chip, I just add a glob of flux and reflow the solder with a soldering iron (with a good-sized chisel tip) so it is smooth and covers the whole chip. If some or all of the copper plating is gone, then the solder will just bubble up and it will be impossible to get it to flow over the whole surface of the chip.
It's such a great set up and I like the new addition of the desktop DMM to save you a few minutes here and there. One more unit and you might have to hire a real estate agent. 
Nice catch on IOT. They seem to be the go-to with good communication and delivery. Not surprisingly, they said prices will be going up so I grabbed a handful of AI's. The Hakko's do the job at a reasonable price (using an FX888) until I can find a used JBC Nano or desoldering station. I did pick up a used Zeiss SM and used JBC hot air station recently.
Thank you for the clear explanation on the copper. It's saved me a lot of future headaches and seems to be the rule of thumb that if a heat sink does come off it'd be best practice to replace the chip because you'll have to wick the old solder bumps off and the copper will come with it. Adhesive just isn't a good option long term. The more I think about chip swapping and from your approach, the worse it sounds vs. just replacing it with a new $8 chip.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences as a lot of us start to navigate this and sharing your incredible station. It's super helpful.
Nice catch on IOT. They seem to be the go-to with good communication and delivery. Not surprisingly, they said prices will be going up so I grabbed a handful of AI's. The Hakko's do the job at a reasonable price (using an FX888) until I can find a used JBC Nano or desoldering station. I did pick up a used Zeiss SM and used JBC hot air station recently. Thank you for the clear explanation on the copper. It's saved me a lot of future headaches and seems to be the rule of thumb that if a heat sink does come off it'd be best practice to replace the chip because you'll have to wick the old solder bumps off and the copper will come with it. Adhesive just isn't a good option long term. The more I think about chip swapping and from your approach, the worse it sounds vs. just replacing it with a new $8 chip.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences as a lot of us start to navigate this and sharing your incredible station. It's super helpful.
The purpose of the copper plating is to accept the solder, without it the solder won't flow. Think of water on a hydrophobic surface (like a windshield treated with rainx). So you could probably attach a heatsink with solder, but it would not make good contact because the solder will not flow over the whole surface of the chip. You could attach a heatsink using a thermally conductive adhesive, but that has other issues, like how to remove the heatsink if there is an issue with the chip or its connections. So I always replace chips that have lost their copper plating.
I haven't done a lot of swapping chips between boards, most of the time I'm not going to take the risk of installing a chip that may be faulty. Just not worth the cost of a new chip to spend the time of putting it on only to have to remove it and reinstall another one. But the only advice I have for that is that you should either clean the solder off the chip or the board. If there are solder bumps on the chip and the board, it is very difficult to get the chip aligned, and when you heat it up it will shift. So I'd probably leave the solder on the chip and use solder wick to clean the solder off the board.
Workbench update...
I added a benchtop DMM to my workbench a few weeks ago ... I'm loving it so far. Don't really need the accuracy, but the time to make measurements is way less than the portable I was using and that time adds up.
Also pick up a Hakko FX951 soldering iron. It works great, but I'm now curious about a Thermaltronics iron (which is basically Metcal clone, started by previous Metcal employees).
Looks like AD and AG chips are all gone, but AI chips are still available, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000098330595.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.d9754c4d7ET3MD
I haven't done a lot of swapping chips between boards, most of the time I'm not going to take the risk of installing a chip that may be faulty. Just not worth the cost of a new chip to spend the time of putting it on only to have to remove it and reinstall another one. But the only advice I have for that is that you should either clean the solder off the chip or the board. If there are solder bumps on the chip and the board, it is very difficult to get the chip aligned, and when you heat it up it will shift. So I'd probably leave the solder on the chip and use solder wick to clean the solder off the board.
Workbench update...
I added a benchtop DMM to my workbench a few weeks ago ... I'm loving it so far. Don't really need the accuracy, but the time to make measurements is way less than the portable I was using and that time adds up.
Also pick up a Hakko FX951 soldering iron. It works great, but I'm now curious about a Thermaltronics iron (which is basically Metcal clone, started by previous Metcal employees).
Looks like AD and AG chips are all gone, but AI chips are still available, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000098330595.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.d9754c4d7ET3MD
Wndsnb, I wanted to circle back on this because I was reading one of your replies in an old thread about repairs on the S17. My question is if the copper film is completely off (lets say from a heatsink coming off) what is the reason you can't solder it back onto the copper-less chip? Is it from the degraded thermal transfer? Also, since as of today chips seem to have disappeared from Aliexpress (I did get some several weeks ago) - What is your procedure for taking a chip from a dead board and implanting it on the working board - keeping this copper film in mind. Also, as an update, the equipment is slowly coming together. I can't help but think that self-repair will be the norm for these machines. You're light years ahead of this. Still haven't found any info on chip bm1397 chip naming convention differences.
You're right, not any info about these variants online.
If you do go for a stereo microscope, a nikon with a 0.5x auxiliary objective gets you ~180mm working distance. Mag with the 0.5X should be more than enough, and the extra working distance is key if you want to try to use a hot air tool. You can find some pretty decent deals on ebay for a nikon on a boom stand.
I have pretty good vision, but I still think it's overkill. I'd recommend spending the $20 on some cheap 3.5X magnifying glasses like I posted a link to before and give them a try first.
I don't have an official answer on the difference between AD, AG, AH, AI... but according to Zeus they are all interchangeable. I've used the AI successfully for S17, S17 Pro, T17, and S17+.
From the Zeus website:
I have pretty good vision, but I still think it's overkill. I'd recommend spending the $20 on some cheap 3.5X magnifying glasses like I posted a link to before and give them a try first.
I don't have an official answer on the difference between AD, AG, AH, AI... but according to Zeus they are all interchangeable. I've used the AI successfully for S17, S17 Pro, T17, and S17+.
From the Zeus website:
I did order from the CN888 store, they were responsive to why it was cancelled (said it got lost) but seemed off. Might give them another go since it looks like you have recently been successful or the IOT store. ZuesBTC is was the plan B and wanted to get some feedback on them before going in that direction, so thank you for that mikeywith, and the cannibalization of other boards approach. Surgical loupes seem like a good idea but this PIC chip work and booster might need the microscope to make sure contacts aren't bridged - if they are, be able to correct them properly. What miner do the AI chips go to? Just looked at the IOT store and just got more confused. This 53 pro came with AD's. They have AH, AI, and AG, is one better than the other?
I've also ordered successfully from Zuesbtc. It's a bit of a process though to get an order in through whatsapp.
I ordered 100 1397AI chips from IOTstore on aliexpress on Sunday and they have already shipped and are due to arrive on Friday.
I ordered 100 1397AI chips from IOTstore on aliexpress on Sunday and they have already shipped and are due to arrive on Friday.
... on the search to find a reliable source for BM1397AD's.
Did you check on zeusbtc.com? I think most suppliers are facing chips shortage, it seems like thousands of gears were sitting on the sideline doing nothing until BTC took off and everyone wanted to fix those gears, I think you can actually extract the chips from one of the boards you have, say you have 10 bad boards, you sacrifice 1 to fix the other 9, makes any senes?
if this works, it will add an extra step or two on the process, but at least you don't have to wait forever to find the chips.
Did you order from the store from my link, CN888 Store? I successfully ordered 5 times without issue from them. I've also ordered from here too.
Not sure a stereo microscope will be all that useful. I have a Bausch and Lomb on a boom stand, similar to this, but I don't use it for hashboards. Good for inspection after rework, but being fixed in a vertical position isn't ideal for placing/moving components when reflowing.
So far, what I've ended up using most is something similar to these: https://www.magnifier.com/headband-magnifier-eye-glass-style-5-lens-led-eg1li.htm
If I was going to drop >$500 on something, I'd go for some decent surgical loupes rather than a stereo microscope.
Not sure a stereo microscope will be all that useful. I have a Bausch and Lomb on a boom stand, similar to this, but I don't use it for hashboards. Good for inspection after rework, but being fixed in a vertical position isn't ideal for placing/moving components when reflowing.
So far, what I've ended up using most is something similar to these: https://www.magnifier.com/headband-magnifier-eye-glass-style-5-lens-led-eg1li.htm
If I was going to drop >$500 on something, I'd go for some decent surgical loupes rather than a stereo microscope.
All the hardware besides ASIC chips from AliExpress arrived - the shipment was "canceled" by them. Maybe they didn't actually have them in stock so I just asked for a refund and didn't ask any questions - on the search to find a reliable source for BM1397AD's. On a whim, I took the boards to a large electronic repair place locally and they wouldn't touch them. wndsnb, I was circling back and taking a look at your setup. Are you using a stereoscope or digital? Looking around Ebay and have come across some Nikons and Zeiss Stemi 2000's. Taking a step back from there and thinking about budget, is there something that will decently get the job done for these smaller chips that you looked at?
The pic firmware from the other boards in the same miner would be the same, so either way would work.
I was expecting at least close to $50 for tips. This is welcome on the wallet. Circling back in regards to the PIC chip, when preparing to take the PIC chip off of the board should I use the PIC IT to take that PIC information off first or could I just as well use the 1 working board's PIC information later when the chip is installed on this non-working board?
I got the 12.7mm nozzle, and I'm using that. It is just the right size to cover the ASIC. That's the other nice thing, the most nozzles are only around $10.
Awesome to hear it passes the test and what's great is it's about half the price of others. Did you buy any additional tips or have any go-to's for the job? Still waiting on all the board hardware to arrive. Shipping has been really affected lately and/or inventories.
https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/?v=7450
Here's a pretty in-depth review of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yHkrVYrBE
In fact, I just ordered one of those after watching that review.
Here's a pretty in-depth review of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yHkrVYrBE
In fact, I just ordered one of those after watching that review.
Got my new hot-air tool and tried it out last night for the first time. It works great, bang for the buck factor is very high...
Thanks for the lead on the power and the glimpse of a mad scientist's workbench. I have yet to see a clean workbench, ever. As it should be. Great equipment setup. It's hard not to overlook, I have a Hakko myself - it's such a great design. Agreed, I think Vnish offers the path of least resistance when attempting to mix and match. Perhaps Marc from Asic.to could confirm this one day or Vnish himself because this is what I would assume a lot of x17 series miners are up against. Hopefully, ARC implements your suggestion and it's not "extra"
You need a 20V or greater, 10A lab power supply. I'm using one of these that I found on ebay: https://www.tequipment.net/InstekPSP2010.html?v=7421.
If you want to mix and match boards with stock firmware then you'll need some way to program the eeprom. From what I can tell, the ARC tester just programs in some default nominal values, so it is good if those values work for the hashboard you're working on. But if the hashboard doesn't run well at the frequency/voltage, there isn't anything you can do about it. I just asked them about it and told them it would be a nice feature to enable editing of those values. So who knows, maybe they'll implement it. Their support has been pretty good so far, I message them on Whatsapp and they have responded within 15 minutes every time I think.
Also, the Bitmain tester is just a S17+ control board with different firmware. They hook an lcd screen to it, but it really isn't necessary. I'm pretty sure you can take a stock s17+ control board and run the test fixture firmware on it. You'd just need to buy a USB to serial adapter, like this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/15096, and hook it up to the uart signals on the control board.
Here's what my workbench currently looks like... a bit messy.
If you want to mix and match boards with stock firmware then you'll need some way to program the eeprom. From what I can tell, the ARC tester just programs in some default nominal values, so it is good if those values work for the hashboard you're working on. But if the hashboard doesn't run well at the frequency/voltage, there isn't anything you can do about it. I just asked them about it and told them it would be a nice feature to enable editing of those values. So who knows, maybe they'll implement it. Their support has been pretty good so far, I message them on Whatsapp and they have responded within 15 minutes every time I think.
Also, the Bitmain tester is just a S17+ control board with different firmware. They hook an lcd screen to it, but it really isn't necessary. I'm pretty sure you can take a stock s17+ control board and run the test fixture firmware on it. You'd just need to buy a USB to serial adapter, like this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/15096, and hook it up to the uart signals on the control board.
Here's what my workbench currently looks like... a bit messy.
Just took an unnecessary dive into oscillators but I think MM Fluke MM will do just fine and I'd like to keep it portable for multiuse. The portable digital oscillators on Amazon are temping for a cheap price. Micsigs are nice but just out of budget. For jigs its looking like the ARC with a good point about monitoring chip hash in Vnish. Do you recommend adding the board testing and EEPROM options with the ARC and what lab PSU are you using? I watched their video and looks like they just clipped power onto the board.
I listed the exact solder and flux I use here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56114781.
For multimeters, I always go with Fluke, https://www.tequipment.net/Fluke117.html. You'll want to make sure the one you get can measure diode voltage drop, circled in green here:
For an Oscilloscope, a decent low-cost option is this: https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1102Z-E/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=7401 or this: https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS2102E/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?b=y&v=7906 (this is the series I use).
For testers, it's hard to say what route would be best. Most issues can be found with the ARC tester. The BM tester will identify chips that are not hashing at full speed, but you can do that same thing in a miner with vnish firmware since it will show you the performance for each chip separately. I guess I would probably lean towards the ARC tester. If you get one of those, you'll also need to get a separate lab PSU, it does not use a APW9 like the BM tester does.
For multimeters, I always go with Fluke, https://www.tequipment.net/Fluke117.html. You'll want to make sure the one you get can measure diode voltage drop, circled in green here:
For an Oscilloscope, a decent low-cost option is this: https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1102Z-E/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=7401 or this: https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS2102E/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?b=y&v=7906 (this is the series I use).
For testers, it's hard to say what route would be best. Most issues can be found with the ARC tester. The BM tester will identify chips that are not hashing at full speed, but you can do that same thing in a miner with vnish firmware since it will show you the performance for each chip separately. I guess I would probably lean towards the ARC tester. If you get one of those, you'll also need to get a separate lab PSU, it does not use a APW9 like the BM tester does.
Invaluable information wndsnb. It's a great start and this thread has become a great resource. I ordered all the parts (and a little bit more for back ups) you listed including chips for the 53 pro boards along with a stencil jig for the chips. Have some old electronic stuff to practice on following your tips once product research is complete over the weekend. After some other research into the Bitman test jig and the Asic Repair Center Jig, I'm not sure which one to purchase because it seems the Bitmain jig has all the more comprehensive information and slower but the ARC is faster and more user friendly where you don't have to do a lot of deep diving and interpretation, has a board tester option and EEPROM flash as options as well. Do you use lead or lead-free solder paste and have any best recommendations? Also, I need to look at a new DMM or oscilloscope - is one preferred over the other for this specific application and perhaps a specific one to look at?
With some solder paste and a hot-air tool of some sort applying a package like that pic is pretty easy. You can be pretty messy with the solder paste, and when you heat it up to the melting point with a hot air tool the solder will flow to the pins, so no need to worry about individual leads of the package. You can go back after reflowing the solder to clean up any bridges that might be caused by excess solder. Recently I've been doing that by applying flux over the pins, applying heat with the heat gun, and then running the blade of a x-acto knife over the solder, this does a great job of sucking up the excess. But many of these techniques are all personal preference, and what works for me might not work for you. So the best is to find some old electronics to rip apart and practice with. Find similar packages and remove and replace them. better to practice with worthless junk than a hashboard that could be worth a lot if/when repaired.
Here's an example of removing/replacing using an iron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGgat5IVfFE
I normally do this by putting down a bead of solder paste over the pads, place the part, and then heat the whole thing up with my heat gun to reflow it all at once.
More like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_yFDpSTfao
And the weller/pace/hakko/... stuff gets pretty expensive. Some is worth the $, but some not. I keep an eye out for a decent deal on used items on ebay.
But I'd just start with some lower cost ones, they may not have as high of a build quality but as long as you don't get complete no-name brands most will do the job just as well as the $$$ versions. For a hot-air tool, you just need to be able to set airflow and temperature and need something around 1000W. For an iron, you need one that you can set temperature. Those are the only necessary requirements I think. I have never used de-soldering tools, not sure they are of much use for surface mount components.
So for a decent quality low cost iron, I use this: https://www.tequipment.net/HakkoFX888D-23BY.html?v=118031
And as I said earlier, I just have been using a heatgun with temperature and airflow settings , but a reasonably priced hot-air tool like this one I'm sure would work fine
https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/?v=7450
Here's a pretty in-depth review of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yHkrVYrBE
In fact, I just ordered one of those after watching that review.
Here's an example of removing/replacing using an iron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGgat5IVfFE
I normally do this by putting down a bead of solder paste over the pads, place the part, and then heat the whole thing up with my heat gun to reflow it all at once.
More like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_yFDpSTfao
And the weller/pace/hakko/... stuff gets pretty expensive. Some is worth the $, but some not. I keep an eye out for a decent deal on used items on ebay.
But I'd just start with some lower cost ones, they may not have as high of a build quality but as long as you don't get complete no-name brands most will do the job just as well as the $$$ versions. For a hot-air tool, you just need to be able to set airflow and temperature and need something around 1000W. For an iron, you need one that you can set temperature. Those are the only necessary requirements I think. I have never used de-soldering tools, not sure they are of much use for surface mount components.
So for a decent quality low cost iron, I use this: https://www.tequipment.net/HakkoFX888D-23BY.html?v=118031
And as I said earlier, I just have been using a heatgun with temperature and airflow settings , but a reasonably priced hot-air tool like this one I'm sure would work fine
https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/?v=7450
Here's a pretty in-depth review of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yHkrVYrBE
In fact, I just ordered one of those after watching that review.
It looks like I'll be referencing this post for a while so thank you again for this information. Something I know you have experienced with periods of trial and error in your own experiments/research/documentation. After reading your feedback on the adhesive I just threw it in the fridge for emergencies....down the rabbit hole this goes. I actually took a visit to our electrical dept. today and they are using Pace units for desoldering and surface mount work. They said the PIC work could get tricky because each one of the PIC prongs will have to be carefully soldered. Ordered the PIC chip anyways. With some of their recommendations and a little research, it's between Weller WT's (for the tweezer compatibility) + the Hot Air WTHA1 or Pace ST115 with Sodr-X-Tractor. Looking at these numbers maybe take it to a professional with the right tools locally with hardware provided from your list. I will be picking up one of the test jigs soon for diagnosis purposes and got a pickit just in case by a miracle I come across a working 53 pro board.
https://www.weller-tools.com/professional/USA/us/Professional/Product+lines/WT+Line/Soldering+stations+and+sets/WT2M
https://www.weller-tools.com/professional/USA/us/Professional/Product+lines/WT+Line/Soldering+stations+and+sets/WTHA1
or
https://paceworldwide.com/st115-digital-desoldering-station-sx-100-sodr-x-tractor
https://www.weller-tools.com/professional/USA/us/Professional/Product+lines/WT+Line/Soldering+stations+and+sets/WT2M
https://www.weller-tools.com/professional/USA/us/Professional/Product+lines/WT+Line/Soldering+stations+and+sets/WTHA1
or
https://paceworldwide.com/st115-digital-desoldering-station-sx-100-sodr-x-tractor
The problem with the adhesives is that if just re-attaching those heatsinks doesn't work, it's gonna be a pain in the ass to get those heatsinks back off. So if all you're comfortable doing is re-attaching the heatsinks and if that doesn't work you're giving up, that's a fine route to take. But if you'd want to continue down the rabbit hole to try to repair it, I'd suggest re-attaching with solder.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56114781
I now mount all heatsinks the way I describe doing the S17+ in that post. It is just too easy to shift the chip when applying the heatsink if you heat the heatsink and place it on the chip rather than heating the heatsink up in place.
You'll need a test jig to have a reasonable chance at getting boards back up. The standard Bitmain type, like this, you can get at a bunch of different places. It is a S17 control board with special firmware that will exercise the hashboard so you can probe signals with a DMM or oscilloscope. They are pretty cumbersome and slow. I bought another tester from https://tester.asic.repair/en. It is more expensive and doesn't do as in-depth of a test as the normal Bitmain type, but it is 10X faster. With it you can connect the tester and run a test in less than 10 seconds. It takes a few minutes to do the same with the bitmain tester.
Here are some replacements for other parts:
Boost circuit controller https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/monolithic-power-systems-inc/MP1517DR-LF-Z/9433294
Boost circuit 1.8V regulator https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/monolithic-power-systems-inc/MP2019GN-Z/1589-1557-1-ND/9433323
1.8V regulator https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/NCP114ASN180T1G/NCP114ASN180T1GOSCT-ND/6560646
25mhz oscillator https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/diodes-incorporated/FK2500065Z/FK2500065ZDICT-ND/9952907
For ASICs, I've ordered from Zuesbtc and Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000098353215.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.11884c4dXGgZuU
https://www.zeusbtc.com/ASIC-Miner-Repair/Parts-Tools-Details.asp?ID=165
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56114781
I now mount all heatsinks the way I describe doing the S17+ in that post. It is just too easy to shift the chip when applying the heatsink if you heat the heatsink and place it on the chip rather than heating the heatsink up in place.
You'll need a test jig to have a reasonable chance at getting boards back up. The standard Bitmain type, like this, you can get at a bunch of different places. It is a S17 control board with special firmware that will exercise the hashboard so you can probe signals with a DMM or oscilloscope. They are pretty cumbersome and slow. I bought another tester from https://tester.asic.repair/en. It is more expensive and doesn't do as in-depth of a test as the normal Bitmain type, but it is 10X faster. With it you can connect the tester and run a test in less than 10 seconds. It takes a few minutes to do the same with the bitmain tester.
Here are some replacements for other parts:
Boost circuit controller https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/monolithic-power-systems-inc/MP1517DR-LF-Z/9433294
Boost circuit 1.8V regulator https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/monolithic-power-systems-inc/MP2019GN-Z/1589-1557-1-ND/9433323
1.8V regulator https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/NCP114ASN180T1G/NCP114ASN180T1GOSCT-ND/6560646
25mhz oscillator https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/diodes-incorporated/FK2500065Z/FK2500065ZDICT-ND/9952907
For ASICs, I've ordered from Zuesbtc and Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000098353215.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.11884c4dXGgZuU
https://www.zeusbtc.com/ASIC-Miner-Repair/Parts-Tools-Details.asp?ID=165
I agree, Just to assume that if I do successfully replace the PIC the booster circuit and possible regulators would be next and without digging into that as of now, it could be a non-starter and something that just can't be replaced at a hobbyist level. It sounds like you have had a similar experience with this particular repair on one of your boards so I'm super appreciative of your knowledge and help in putting this into perspective.
A few questions about potentially gearing up for this. It's been a while since I hot-air soldered. What is good out there now? Are there better alternatives, all in one unit, brand to stick to? I see myself doing this in the future so I'd like to prepared. Do you have any recommendations and what tips have worked best for you specifically for the PIC?
Off subject, I am replacing remounting the heat sink on board 3 and ordered a thermal epoxy from Atom Adhesives which are direct replacements for the now discontinued Arctic Silver:
AA-DUCT 902 Silver Epoxy Adhesive, Electrically Conductive, Room Temp Curing
AA-BOND 2153 Thermally Conductive, Electrically Insulating Compound, 2 Part, Thixtropic
I bought both after talking to them directly. Which one of these would you recommend using? Or do you solder yours back on?
A lot to think about so thanks for the direction here.
A few questions about potentially gearing up for this. It's been a while since I hot-air soldered. What is good out there now? Are there better alternatives, all in one unit, brand to stick to? I see myself doing this in the future so I'd like to prepared. Do you have any recommendations and what tips have worked best for you specifically for the PIC?
Off subject, I am replacing remounting the heat sink on board 3 and ordered a thermal epoxy from Atom Adhesives which are direct replacements for the now discontinued Arctic Silver:
AA-DUCT 902 Silver Epoxy Adhesive, Electrically Conductive, Room Temp Curing
AA-BOND 2153 Thermally Conductive, Electrically Insulating Compound, 2 Part, Thixtropic
I bought both after talking to them directly. Which one of these would you recommend using? Or do you solder yours back on?
A lot to think about so thanks for the direction here.
Don't know if I'd just plow ahead and start replacing things, the boost circuit they said failed has nothing directly to do with the pic so there's likely more wrong than just the pic. The one board I've repaired that had a blown pic also had every 1.8v regulator blown (12 of those on the board), and the boost circuit controller.
But the pic it isn't a very difficult part to replace. Just search for some video tutorials for surface mount rework.
This is the part: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/579-33EP16GS202TE-SS/
Mouser also sells the pickit, but only the newest one. You can get the pickit 3 for cheaper elsewhere.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/579-PG164140/
This is the schematic of the connector where the 3.3V and i2c signals that the control board uses to talk to the pic.
Here's the schematic for the pic
I got both of those from the repair manuals you can get from zuesbtc here:
https://www.zeusbtc.com/News.asp?Sort=FILES+DOWNLOAD
You can run the guides through online translators to get a reasonably understandable translation. Some of those manuals also have info on using the pickit.
But the pic it isn't a very difficult part to replace. Just search for some video tutorials for surface mount rework.
This is the part: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/579-33EP16GS202TE-SS/
Mouser also sells the pickit, but only the newest one. You can get the pickit 3 for cheaper elsewhere.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/579-PG164140/
This is the schematic of the connector where the 3.3V and i2c signals that the control board uses to talk to the pic.
Here's the schematic for the pic
I got both of those from the repair manuals you can get from zuesbtc here:
https://www.zeusbtc.com/News.asp?Sort=FILES+DOWNLOAD
You can run the guides through online translators to get a reasonably understandable translation. Some of those manuals also have info on using the pickit.
BitMaxz, definitely the same errors. So I detached the board 1 cable from the hashboard and plugged the cable that usually runs hashboard 3 into hasboard 1. I didn't switch controller board cable positions from 3 to 1, just plugged 3 into hashboard 1. Same result.
Thanks wndsnb, Super insightful as always. How hard would it be to self replace this part? Where would I get the part from? If I can replace the PIC microprocessor then in theory I could use the pickit to flash back on.
Code:
[2021/02/24 20:10:01] INFO: Power ON
[2021/02/24 20:10:03] INFO: Starting FPGA queue
[2021/02/24 20:10:03] INFO: Initializing hash boards
[2021/02/24 20:10:03] INFO: chain[2] - Initializing
[2021/02/24 20:10:03] INFO: chain[1] - Initializing
[2021/02/24 20:10:06] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 1), resp: 0x00 0x00
[2021/02/24 20:10:08] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:09] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 3), resp: 0x9b 0x9b
[2021/02/24 20:10:10] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 1), resp: 0x9b 0x9b
[2021/02/24 20:10:11] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 2), resp: 0x9b 0x9b
[2021/02/24 20:10:11] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 3), resp: 0x9b 0x9b
[2021/02/24 20:10:13] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 1), resp: 0x9b 0x9b
[2021/02/24 20:10:14] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:16] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:16] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:17] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:17] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:18] INFO: chain[1] - 48 chips detected
[2021/02/24 20:10:19] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:20] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:22] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:23] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:23] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:24] WARN: chain[2] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/24 20:10:24] ERROR: driver-btm-chain.c:465 chain[2] - Failed to init pic controller
[2021/02/24 20:10:24] INFO: chain[2] - Shutting down the chain
[2021/02/24 20:10:24] ERROR: driver-btm-base.c:356 chain[2] - Initialization failed
[2021/02/24 20:10:26] INFO: Start-up temperature is 25 C (min -15 C)
[2021/02/24 20:10:26] INFO: Switching to manual fan control (100 %)
[2021/02/24 20:10:26] INFO: Changing voltage from 21000 to 17400 mV gradually
[2021/02/24 20:11:06] INFO: Raising freq from 50 to 500 Mhz gradually
[2021/02/24 20:11:17] INFO: Switching to automatic fan control (75 C)
[2021/02/24 20:11:17] INFO: Start mining!
Thanks wndsnb, Super insightful as always. How hard would it be to self replace this part? Where would I get the part from? If I can replace the PIC microprocessor then in theory I could use the pickit to flash back on.
This sometimes happens if the control board and hashboard have a bad connection.
Can you try to replace the cable or use the cable from hashboard 3 then test it again.
Source: I got from here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55698844
Just read the 3rd response from him which is solved by replacing the cable.
Can you try to replace the cable or use the cable from hashboard 3 then test it again.
Source: I got from here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55698844
Just read the 3rd response from him which is solved by replacing the cable.
The error messages from chain 0 are from not getting any response from the pic microprocessor on the hashboard. This is a pretty basic function, the board only needs power supplied from the control board and a functional pic to get a response. Without the pic, the control board can't turn on the power to the ASIC chips, so there is no chance of getting anything working. Could be that the pic got fried and needs to be replaced.
Well got the S17 Pro back and was able to put eyes on the kernel myself. It went in for repairs limping and came out even worse, so I was hoping there might be a magic (sorcery will do too) recommendation to save this on my own with tools and hardware online. Boards are non-existent so any help is appreciated. Board 3 is off for now because it arrived with a loose heat sink. Board 2 is hashing well. Board 1 is the current issue.
1st Diagnosis - Tested all 3 hashboards, All ASICs report correctly with all temp sensors failing.
2nd Diagnosis and Final Repair. (Below)
Hashboard 1 (Chain 0)-
Temp sensors 2 & 4 replaced.
Reflowed Chips
Boost circuit failed board is unrepairable.
Kernel Log:
Thanks for taking a look!
NKBTW
1st Diagnosis - Tested all 3 hashboards, All ASICs report correctly with all temp sensors failing.
2nd Diagnosis and Final Repair. (Below)
Hashboard 1 (Chain 0)-
Temp sensors 2 & 4 replaced.
Reflowed Chips
Boost circuit failed board is unrepairable.
Kernel Log:
Code:
[2021/02/21 03:37:27] INFO: Power ON
[2021/02/21 03:37:29] INFO: Starting FPGA queue
[2021/02/21 03:37:29] INFO: Initializing hash boards
[2021/02/21 03:37:29] INFO: chain[1] - Initializing
[2021/02/21 03:37:29] INFO: chain[0] - Initializing
[2021/02/21 03:37:33] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:35] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 2), resp: 0x9a 0x9a
[2021/02/21 03:37:37] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 3), resp: 0x9a 0x9a
[2021/02/21 03:37:38] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:39] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:39] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:41] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:42] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:44] INFO: chain[1] - 48 chips detected
[2021/02/21 03:37:44] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:44] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:45] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:45] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:47] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:49] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:50] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to reset pic (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:51] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 1), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:51] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 2), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:52] WARN: chain[0] - Failed to start pic app (attempt = 3), resp: 0x01 0x01
[2021/02/21 03:37:52] ERROR: driver-btm-chain.c:465 chain[0] - Failed to init pic controller
[2021/02/21 03:37:52] INFO: chain[0] - Shutting down the chain
[2021/02/21 03:37:52] ERROR: driver-btm-base.c:356 chain[0] - Initialization failed
[2021/02/21 03:37:54] INFO: Start-up temperature is 28 C (min -15 C)
[2021/02/21 03:37:54] INFO: Switching to manual fan control (100 %)
[2021/02/21 03:37:54] INFO: Changing voltage from 21000 to 17400 mV gradually
[2021/02/21 03:38:34] INFO: Raising freq from 50 to 500 Mhz gradually
[2021/02/21 03:38:45] INFO: Switching to automatic fan control (75 C)
[2021/02/21 03:38:45] INFO: Start mining!
Thanks for taking a look!
NKBTW
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