Topic: S3+ Bitmain Miner Power Arrangement (Read 5394 times)

^dead on. 1 connection per blade is sufficient when using a proper cable for the job.

one additional thought though - by using the second connector as well, it better distributes current on the PCB. This would MARGINALLY reduce resistance in the PCB and ensure the area around the single connector doesnt get warm. However, no issues or PCB failures have been seen yet, and any power savings would be on the order of 1-2w/PCB - so its not really necessary to plug in all 4 connectors unless you actually happen to have enough cables to begin with (which most PSUs wont - such as the EVGA 1300 having 6 cables only (2 of which are double connectors though)

When I first started this tread I was under the assumption that the card required extra power though each connecter, when in reality this is not true. Yes the card does require more power when OC’d but this can be drawn from one connection providing the cable can take it.

I believe the reason its recommend to plug in all four when over clocking, is because a standard PCIE with 18 awg cable will get hot and therefore burn out.

I have made my own cables using 16 awg and then from the connector block that connects to the PSU terminals I used 14 awg, even after 4 hours the cables and PSU were stone cold.

Don't you need to plug in the other two PCI-E connections if you overclock?

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion  

I totally forgot to take some close ups of the Dell 2100w PSU. In the end I soldered the cables onto the terminals, this was instead of using spades. The terminals are slightly tapered so spades are not secure enough. The connecter blocks worked a treat.
The only thing is the PSU is quite loud, but thats not a problem because its in my Dads loft which is 22 miles from my house lol.
Currently there all OC’d at 250 and combined its hashing between 1900 – 2000. One thing I have noticed is one miner is running at 430GH not sure why quess ill have to research that one.
I’m back over there in two weeks so I’ll take voltage readings and provide and average Watt/GH.

Buying some more in a few weeks. BTCBTCBTC

Thanks 

thats correct.

Just about the start wiring the PCI-e plugs for the Server PSU. Could someone just quickly on confirm the plug wiring layout below is correct for the miner, thanks

Black = Ground
Yellow = 12v

Next homework assignment:  study 8-pin (6+2) PCIe power connector pinout

If you still couldn't get it, then I can't help you any further.

Why would BitMain so over estimate the wattage drawn at default and when overclocked if you can get it for so much lower than anyone else?  Oddly, I don't find that in any way a benefit to advertise that if they're incorrect. 

Also you're scaring me, I don't think you understand what you're talking about, especially in regards to this statement "Hint: Modern ATX PSUs that we use to power our miners nowadays are equipped with 6+2 pin PCIe power connectors (three +12V circuits) instead of the legacy 6-pin ones (two +12V circuits).  They (6+2 or 8-pin PCIe power connectors) could theoretically handle up to 252W.  But don't take my word for it."  You do realize that that rating is ONLY with all 8 pins connected, the AntMiner has 6 pins at each connection.  Therefore what is the max. with 6 pins?  You've really got to do some more homework before you post any further.

Where exactly did I say I know more than the manufacturers?  That said, they're not technical deities either (couldn't even put together a decent S3 firmware).  My numbers are sound; it's more like you couldn't figure them out and I'm not about to resort to spoonfeeding and deprive you of the joys of discovery and the satisfaction derived from learning in the process.  If you really believe that my numbers are off, then illustrate it in detail.  Just saying so doesn't wash; but then again, that's how you roll it seems.  Right on cue, you continue to make stuff up.

Anyway, I was merely making sense of your "each 6-pin connector is rated industry standard at 192watts max., which the S3+ falls under per blade at default speed, but once you start overclocking if falls outside of spec" statement.  Industry standard of what?  Please elaborate on which industry it is a standard of.  Do you know where or how this "192watts max" is derived from?  To reiterate, an S3 overclocked to 250M at an ambient temperature of 29C draws around 180WDC/blade.  Yes, it's a sound number which you obviously haven't figured out yet; otherwise, we wouldn't be having this interesting discussion.  180W is clearly within the "192watts max" specification of a single PCIe power harness that you produced without any substantiation.  Yet, you continue to insist that "when Overclocked they do not fall within specs".  How does 180W not fall within the "192watts max" specs that you have been brandishing around?  It's your number, not mine.  I am merely applying it.

Like you, I also prefer a decent headroom when it comes to PSU loading (within reason considering cost/safety factor).  If it's working and you're happy and comfy using a particular PSU (overkill or not), then good for you.  I'm glad that your units are hashing safely.  However, there has already been a ridiculous amount of anecdotal and baseless posts in these forums and adding more does not help.  It's hard enough to sift the facts from fables and fabrications as it is.

Hint: Modern ATX PSUs that we use to power our miners nowadays are equipped with 6+2 pin PCIe power connectors (three +12V circuits) instead of the legacy 6-pin ones (two +12V circuits). They (6+2 or 8-pin PCIe power connectors) could theoretically handle up to 252W.  But don't take my word for it.

Homework Assignment: Read up on Molex Standard Mini-Fit Jr. power connector specs (as well as their HCS and Plus HCS variations for good measure.  Interesting stuff.)

Do not buy EVGA 1000W G2.

3x EVGA Supernova G2 1300W + shipping from germany to estonia is only 532,69 EUR.

1x EVGA Supernova G2 1300W works with 3 x Antminer S3+ at normal speed. No need for aplitters.


Not all of the S3+ does OC.   Only 30% of those working at Frequency 250 .

"From another thread i posted in, but it has relevance here,"

I just started S3 mining and went though similar PSU choice issues, in the end i went with 1:1      1 psu per 1 S3.

To give me some flexibility I went with a FSP Raider 750 Watt 80 plus Silver PSU, it has 4 6/8 pin pcie connectors so I can fill all the S3 power connectors,
apparently this allows you to overclock and keeps the unit slightly cooler per given freq.

Secondly, it has a common 12 V rail giving 60 amps which is more than enough for an S3 and allows the PSU to run at around 50% capacity which has an efficiency over 90%.

One thing I have noticed with some Gold modular psu's is they have multiple 12 V rails and may add up to 700-800 watts but only deliver 18 amps (per rail),
 if you power you S3 with one connector per side from a rail like this you are going to have trouble as an S3 needs 24-30 amps depending on who you read.

With lots of PSU's it does chew up more space and power points but you don't have a single point of failure and your not running your PSU at 90-100 % capacity.

Good luck with your PSU hunting.
Reply

Can make it with OC. 

Cheers and by 5 ants you mean at stock speed

I plan to OC these mo fo's

Clever guy! 

That's what I've tried to tell you since the beginning of the thread. 

This psu will be enough for 5 ants.

Just have to do some work. But be careful with the connections at the end of the psu. Have to be tight but if you solder them is the best.

Guys please chill out! 

I have decided to go with a server PSU because the purchase cost is so much less. As for overall running cost who knows? Once its all setup I will certainly post my WATT usage to compere against the ATX PSU crew.

I understand its not the S3/S3+ that requires all four to be used for the extra power. The extra two termanils are there just in case a user decides to install low rated cables (Cheap 18awg or 20awg). So the better the cable (16awg) then only two are required.

Feel like im double posting here because I have already mentioned the final design on another post, upto you guys to keep this alive but im out, thanks for everyones help ill see you guys later.

ATX PSU EVGA 1000W G2 x 2 will cost £280 plus possiable splitters and extra VGA cable as per my design early.

Server PSU Dell 2100w will cost £80 including all cables, blocks etc + my time to make them up.

Not the most prettest design but should work great.

Well, if you' want to respond like that, then I'll respond in kind.

And here we have a case of someone claiming they know more than other people including the manufacturer of the product he thinks he's an expert on ("I'll use your product, but you designed it wrong" attitude).  Please don't explain yourself, it shows a lot.  AC>DC Conversion?  That should be included in the PSU efficiency because all AC is converted to DC in the power supply, hnmmm but you have it listed separately.  When a power supply manufacturer lists the efficiency, they include for loss from conversion as well as heat for the rating.  Wall reading vs. from the power supply, well I have both of those listed in my readings, so your response is moot.  Please don't bother rereading your own posts, I think I've given you more than enough hints to your mistakes.  I feel sorry for people that might follow your advise and similar "If the wires get hot after ten minutes... easy to check...", but then if there is problems you have no responsibility to the possible damages your advise caused.

Hmmm...

Like firewire2013, you obviously are missing the fundamentals when figuring out PSU wattages/specs/performance.  Since it is so fundamental/basic when it comes to dealing with PSUs in relation to the devices they are powering, I refrain from spoonfeeding to give you both a chance to learn it yourselves the proper way through sound research and hard work.  However, I'm glad to offer hints to hopefully point you to the right direction:

-AC > DC conversion
-PSU efficiency
-WAC from the wall vs. WDC from the PSU
-carefully reread the first paragraph in my first link

I think those are more than enough hints to get you going.

I just set up another rig, its got 3 S3+'s underclocked to 218.75M with a EVGA 1600w P2 (Platinum).  The case has 10 case fans on a fan controller (controlling 6 of the fans).  The fan controller and the 10 fans are probably using about 25 or so watts.  The Kill-A-Watt at the socket (about 118.5+v) shows 1,127watts.  That's about 1,100 watts for the 3 underclocked S3+'s.  So that's about 365watts per each at 218.75M, at the wall.  If the power supply is about 92-93% efficient, that means each is using about 340watts at the power supply.

You can use only 1 pcie slot per board with no issue. I've run overclocked s3/s3+ units this way with EVGA 1300, enermax 1050, ultra 800, and an eternal 1350.

All do it without a problem. When possible I double up, but it's not really necessary. The cables can handle the load without issue on a quality psu. If not, the cable will be noticeably warm in under 10 min. Easy to test.

I sell good quality pcie splitters in my signature link if you really want to use splitters, but it's not required in my experience for the s3

Agreed

You must have some mighty efficient S3's, here's what my Overclocked S3+'s consumed AT THE POWER SUPPLY.  
237.5M will use about 385w
250M will use about 410w
So no, when Overclocked they do not fall within specs.

Two other reviews online I read had similar results.

Bitmain S3+ Power Cable Layout
Just drawn the below using ultra sophisticated...paint   I assume this layout would be best of both worlds and best usage of all VGA slots



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EVGA-PCI-Express-6-Pin-to-8-Pin-Graphics-Card-Power-Adapter-Cable-2x-6pin-to-8-/251678823374?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item3a993a13ce

Yes, you're definitely missing something.

On your first link you say:
Legend:  Tambient/Tdevice/Wattage/Hash Rate

@ 218.75M (stock)
35C/45C/365W/440GHs

@ 225M
35C/45C/378W/453GHs

@ 237.5M
32C/43/400W/478GHs

@ 250M
29C/43C/425W/485GHs

But then you say on this post "S3 oc'd to 250M requires around 360WDC from a PSU"

Or am I miss reading something?

At an ambient room temperature of 29C (84F), an S3 oc'd to 250M requires around 360WDC from a PSU; 180WDC per blade.  Therefore, one power input per S3 blade is still within the 192W max capacity spec of a 6-pin PCIe power harness (Mini-Fit Jr. power connector with 18-gauge wires).  I have oc'd my units to 250M (though I have been keeping them at 243.75M since it seems to be the sweet spot) using Corsair CX500 PSUs (only two PCIe power connections) with no issues whatsoever and the PCIe power cables/connectors are barely warm to the touch.  They've been continuously hashing for almost three months now.  Do not take my word for it though; go with the figures I provided above.

...and I do have pictures:  

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8227268
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8471571

I believe that each 6-pin connector is rated industry standard at 192watts max., which the S3+ falls under per blade at default speed, but once you start overclocking if falls outside of spec. and that's why it is recommended to connect the 2nd pair of 6-pin connectors if you OverClock.  So don't listen to those that say it's OK, it may be OK for them but it's not designed to do that and if you have the 2nd pair of connectors then just attach them.

If you want a cheap solution go for Dell 750W server psu-s.

They can handle 2 OC-d S3 at 820W. (230V)

2 connections on one S3.

But please don't trust me, I have no pictures. 

OC'ing an S3 to 500GH/s makes them run around 400W. So that is only 200W per plug, again you really only need 2 plug per S3.

If noise is a concern I personally would get the EVGA PSU's. I have 4 of the 1000W PSU's myself. The 10 year warranty is unbeatable.

edit: Link for reference https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8604862

Great advise about the CPU plug , I was woundering about that. So even with the EVGA PSU im stuck with 6 connections. Would be nice to have a 1000 watt PSU with 8 VGAs  

I do plan on over OC'ing, I really dont see any reason not too.

If there's four slots when I assume its best to use all, I know you say they will be OK with just two OC'd, however BITMAIN must have manufactured them this way for a reason.

The noise could be a concern with a server PSU, im setting this up over at my dads in the loft conversion which is direclty above his bedroom lol (his leccy is cheaper then mine)..  

The Dell 750W PSU's are just as efficient, if not more, than most ATX PSU's. They are loud, so if that is a concern, an ATX PSU is what you should get.

The EVGA PSU you are talking about would be great for 2 S3's over-clocked. You only need 2 PCIe per S3. If you want to use 4, go for it.

DO NOT USE THE CPU PLUG. Only use the red VGA plugs.

Not OC and 220V

OC'd?

At stock clock (225M), 2x S3+ exerts around 85% load on a TX750 at approximately 29C ambient temp; 95% load if OC'd to 243.75M.  If you're comfy with such loading in a continuous, unattended 24/7 operation, then I guess it's fine.

Here's a simple guide that you may consider if you want to stay in specs of the power supply (EVGA seems to be the big name in mining power supplies), look for a single +12v line:  Keep in mind that the closer you are to the 50% power rating, the more efficient the power supply will run (so if you can afford it, get a higher rated power supply over a power supply closer to the peak load, or if there are 2 power supplies in the same price range you'll probably want to get the higher rated power supply, so a 1,300w power supply would be better than a 850w one barring the price factor).

1 S3 if you want to OverClock then you'll want to get a 500-800w power supply.
2 S3's if you want to OverClock then you'll want to get a 850-1600w power supply.
3 S3's if you want to OverClock then you'll want to get a 1,300-1,600w power supply.
4 S3's non-Overclocked then you'll need a 1,600w power supply (and a pair of splitters, better from the 8-pin line).

(and here will come the posters that will chime in how their power supply is working fine out of specs.)


Here's what each S3+ will roughly draw at the power supply (add another approx. 25watts at the wall on 120v line if you want to know the power consumption for cost of electricity evaluation) at given speed.  BitMain's specs. seem to be after the power supply (even though they state at the wall), my testing was done at approx. 91% efficiency on a 1,200w Gold power supply using a pair of S3+'s and then divided by 1/2.

175M will use about 265w
193M will use about 296w
200M will use about 306w
212.5M will use about 330w
218.75M (default S3) will use about 342w
225M (default S3+) will use about 362w
237.5M will use about 385w
250M will use about 410w

Please search for the account ElGabo. (This was my account before it got hacked.)

Serch for the posts.

You'll find pictures how I made some server PSU-s and you can find a few pictures how I modified 2 S2-s with this 2100W server psu-s.

But only if you have some time for it.....

After my old account hacked I promised myself I won't post too much pictures... I think you undertand why.

Please do your research and get back to me after.

Maybe its just me who take pictures of his own hardware  



Think i'm going to get two of the G2-1000-XR EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G2

I have over 40TH/s running and only  pictures i have from "home made" open air 6 nodules KNC Neptunes.

 however,I have
5x  KNC Neptune
37 x  Antminer S3 and S3+
last 2 Antminer S2
The first and last S4, running with EVGA G2 1300W (downclocked) and wait for PSU
and I do not have any pictures of them.  Did I really should have a picture of my miners ?


I have Corsair TX750 running two S3+

Good luck with your HX850 (with a max output of 840W on its +12V rail) running two OC'd S3s.

I like this guy!

What do you mean "not the best way to go"?  I just gave you proof that you don't need no stinkin' four PCIe power connections to run an overclocked S3 and you don't need an overpriced/overkill PSU either.  I'm not sure why you started a separate thread on this subject in spite of it being discussed till kingdom come on the "ANTMINER S3 Discussion and Support Thread" when you seem to already know what you are doing and what you want.

Not stupid, certainly not a wanna be...a just new hobby

So your telling me you have 70TH and you dont have one stat or picture....come one dude!!

I just dont see the point in someone posting '' Yeah I have two of those PSU's running 4 units no problem'' wheres the science in that. All of these questions I'm asking will be answered, then once my setup is up and running I will post back here with the facts. Not just ''Yeah I have two of those PSU's running 4 units no problem'' ... Sorry for that....

But hey thanks for your help

Maaannnn..... Please.....

Check my sig and my old account. I have 70+Th running. Do you think I make a picture about every cable what I make...

I've tried to help you out buddy but now I think you're just an other stupid wannabe clever guy... Sorry for that....

Not sure what to make of your comments, no factual figures or pictures.... im not convinced you even have a setup. Anyone who is carrying out an install of 8 units is surely to have recoreded some testing or taken pictures of the modifcations etc.

Thanks for this, but im not sure its the best way to go only using two cables pair one device.

Cant wait now to get my gear, going to take loads of pictures and watt readings then post on here.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8227268
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8471571

I'm not running them at home. They are built in at my mining place.

I can take some photos but only when I clean them in the near future.

Please provide watt usage at the wall and a picture of setup, would really help

4 on each one.

So you have 4200Watts running 4x S3 units?

or 8 units 4 on each one?

I have 2 of these psu-s running 4 S3 overclocked with no problem.

They can handle 5 for sure. I wasn't able to connect 5 because I've used them for S2-s and didn't soldered enough cables on them.

Thankyou all for replying

Ok, it looks like there is some debate on what better, server PSU or ATX PSU. I can’t find any Watt readings at the wall for server PSU on YouTube, just ATX PSU so I don’t really have much to go from in form of statistics.
 
In the UK electric is no cheap and even though an AXT PSU costs £70-80 more, over the duration of its use, I’m thinking the usage will be lower.

What about a pair of 1000W EVGA SuperNova G2 Full-Modular 80 PLUS Gold ATX-PSU. Looking at the picture it has 8 slots for power.

Am I correct in saying, use the VGA and CPU slots do they provide the same power output

http://www.evga.com/Products/product.aspx?pn=120-g2-1000-xr

just throwing this in: I sell spliters perfect for this (see link in my signature) Its a 1->2 Y-shaped PCIe cable made with quality 18awg, 6" per arm (12" total length when spread). Can easily handle 140W/arm, more than enough for the S3+

god no. ATX Gold is way better than a lot of server PSUs, particularly the Corsair series. I own an HX850 in my GPU rig and it holds its own. Quiet and power efficient. I have no concerns about it being 90%+. Most server supplies ive seen though are extremely loud, the custom cabling can be an issue to solder or source parts, and often the best deals are on used/refurb units that may not stand up to standards after the original usage.

That said, server supplies are good if you want to save some money (which IMO quality PSUs have resale value and work better/longer than server gear) or where PSU space is an issue and high-density gear is an issue. But for the home miner with a pair of S3+ miners, the HX850 with 6 cords spread between the 8 slots (4 would do, but why not all 6 ) is sufficient for stock speeds, but you wont be able to overclock, as anything over 390W/miner (about 480GH/each) will start pushing the PSU near limits and lose 2-3% efficiency. To overclock you should use an HX1050 or better

You could run on 3, but the load won't balanced across the 2 cards - one card will only have 1 cable powering it and that cable will have the highest risk of melting.

You could buy PCI-e splitters and run 3x PCI-e cables (2 + 1-into-2) per S3 miner. That way you can balance out the odd cable across the 2 cards.

If he OCs the S3+s with 2 on an 850w wouldn't he be pushing the PSUs to the limit?  I would get at least a couple 1kW PSUs if I were you.  You'll get better efficiency from the PSUs that way.

Very true.  If OC then suggested 4.  But 2 cords can easily do the 220 or so watts each.  Just have to make sure to plug one into each blade. 

Yes.

So this should easy run 4 miners?

Really?.. 

I have been running 2 of my s3 with 1000 watts server psu with no issues.  Another plus is that there is less wires and they are cheaper then a regular psu. 

Most of the times server PSU's are more efficient that ordinary pc-psu and a lot more robuste and tollerant. they are designed to run 24/7 near 100% load. dont trust your feeling base your decission on facts and look it up in this forum.

Have you overclocked them? I thought if you ran them with just two cables they would burn up?

Great advise there mate, dont give up your day job! 

searching these forums, you'll find the ratings of many power supplies so you won't need to speculate as to how efficient or noisy they are. Failing that, google it.

I have 5 EVGA G2 850W units powering 10 S3/S3+ no problems; no need to use paperclip to short the pin on the motherboard connector either - the PSUs come with a adapter that will short the pins. You only need to use 2 PCIE power cables per S3 - no need to use 4 per miner.

Also using EVGA G2 750W units to power AM Prisma (2 per Prisma)

If you happen to be in USA; Amazon has the best prices on the EVGA G2s and their MiR will cover up to 2 PSUs.

I have used the Dell 750W Server PSUs w/ breakbout boards; they get pretty hot; even with the fan turned up.  I sold 2 of tyhem on eBay - kept 2 for spares; so I could setup miners in my office before they go to mining room in basement.

No sure I like the idea of using server PSU's.... noisy and I doubt they are very efficient, but hey thanks for the input. Im going to buy ATX PSU's Gold or Plat rated.

I found this video on you tube and this guy has them cross connected each PSU powering 1.5 miners. I didnt know this was possible for the S3+, would someone please confirm its safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-_MVvzgVI

So if I got the EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 this has, 6x 8pins on the rear so I could power 1.5 miners?



#notafeckingclue  

Check sidehack's group buy out. I have 6 of his PSU's pushing 11 of my S3's, with 1 PSU for 2 miners. They have been working perfectly for a while. These things are loud, but they are the best PSU's for the money.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/for-sale-d750-750w-server-psu-breakout-boards-503423

Interesting, are the server PSU's even better than the 80 Gold Rated ATX PSU's. I have seen on youtube some guy tested a crappy PSU against a Corsair and the difference in power usage at the wall was 120watts! The crappy one was pulling 470watts and the Corsair was pulling 350watts thats alot if your farming.
Do you have any brands of server PSU and breaker boards...im in the UK.

Personally I have been using the RM1000.  No problem powering two.   Its also a very efficient PSU.   

My biggest thing is i prefer to go gold on power supplies even though it is higher then if you go with a bronze something else.

Its better to buy an server PSU wich is more efficient more reliable and much easier to exchange when the break down. All you need is a server PSU + a breakout board.

I have got an IBM DSP2000 PSU wich can go to 2500W or 200A on the 12V rail.. no PC-PSU can beat that (bought it for $ 45)

Hello

So I have 4 x S3 miners coming next week and I’m just about to buy the power supplies. I was thinking two Corsair HX850 (850Watts), only snag is they have 6xPCI-E 6 connecters and the miners take four each. Would like to over clock them abit and concerned the wire will heat up to much.
http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/psus/hx-series

I know they can run on 2, I’m wondering if I could connect three to each miner or will it only work in arrangements of 2 or 4?

Looked at this guide which is great but isnt that detailed.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-dogies-comprehensive-bitmain-antminer-s3-setup-hd-702653


Cheers