S9? LOL | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: QuintLeo on May 22, 2016, 02:18:55 AM

S9 is gonna have to be a wonder machine to compete with ETH mining for at least the next couple months and possibly the rest of this year.

The obvious corollary to this is that bitcoin needs to get its act together this year to compete with the ethereum juggernaut.

QuintLeo

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I have seen ZERO about Polaris being available for sale in June. At MOST, it might get a demo/announcement sort of thing per everything I've read SOMETIME in June or early July.
Show sources on your claims, they're NOT matching up to ANYTHING I've seen to date.

Do NOT bother with that "spoof" article the one site did "comparing Polaris to Pascal" on cards that hadn't even paper launched yet - and got some of it's estimated specs wrong anyway.

The earthquake in Taiwan put some serious hurt into TSMC and delayed a lot of stuff a couple months or so - they're back online with that fab now but still playing "catch-up" on scheduals, and there isn't any "space capasity" available yet at that node since it's too new.

Spacing matters to those of us that don't have the OPTION to build open rigs (have you ever seen a cat get into an open rig?).

I might have the option to go open after I move, but where I'm at right now I don't.

It DOES save somewhat when you can go open - no need for high-price high-volume pricey fans, no need for cases, and easy to fit more cards onto one machine with good cooling - though the price of risers mitigates the savings a LITTLE, I'm sure overall it's cheaper.
On the other hand, you definitely get a lot more money spent per watt into bigger power supplies to RUN that many cards at one time - past around 600-700 watts, PS start climbing a LOT on a $/watt basis.
You also have a higher risk of losing a BIG chunk of hash of one part goes down - but that can be mitigated with good design using good parts.

S9 is gonna have to be a wonder machine to compete with ETH mining for at least the next couple months and possibly the rest of this year.

Biodom

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Quote from: QuintLeo on May 21, 2016, 03:23:18 AM

I'm not quite as big as Phil.

I priced out a 2-card rig on Newegg this past week - fairly conservative estimate 48MH/s (I don't trust most of the posted MH figures, they seem to be fairly old and bigger DAG files slow cards down) at a little over $1000, would earn ballpark .48ETH/day or $6ish right now on an electric cost of ballpark $1.20/day
I had the ROI figured on more exact "current" figures at 255 days.

I did the same on a 1-card and on a 4-card rig (3 cards takes an EXPEN$IVE motherboard to get proper spacing, or you end up crowding one card on any 3-slot-only board).
The 4-card rig was deliberatly designed using blower-type cards for heat management.
ROI worked out to higher on the 1-card rig despite being able to go VERY cheap on MB/RAM and such (mini-ITC AMD A1 slot stuff, but gold power supplies don't EXIST below about 450 watts so couldn't get REAL cheap there).
4-card rig ROI worked out to be 254 days, but most likely the cards wouldn't be able to be pushed as hard as in the 2-card rig so I suspect the ACTUAL ROI would be a bit longer.

VERY VERY iffy on being able to achieve ROI, as the current price bump isn't looking real stable, hashrate is GUARENTTEED to drop over time as the DAG file keeps growing, I just couldn't justify building a complete rig out of NEW parts for ETH mining.

I can *mabye* justify it on the basis of "mine ETH to recoup some of the cost, the do my other stuff afterwards" if I set it up with NVidia cards instead of the AMD ones I specified - but then it earns less ETH and probably becomes unprofitable sooner, or fails to achieve ROI before ETH goes POS, so I'd have to justify such a rig on the basis of "going to buy it ANYWAY" not on "I can pay for this with reasonable confidence before ETH goes POS/unprofitable".

Still, for the short term for those of us with hardware that CAN mine ETH already on hand (or MOST of the parts already on hand), ETH is certainly a good option over a mythical miner that might not show up for several months IF ever.

I've not looked into undervolting my GPUs yet - PrecisionX won't let me undervolt my NVidia cards (and research indicates I'd need to mod the BIOS on them voiding the warrenttee), and I've not looked hard at undervolting the AMD cards yet (I know the tools exist, just haven't had time to dig up the right ones yet).

Several points:

1. GPUs have good resell value, which may or may not change due to Polaris, etc. You should get at least 50%, maybe more. the rest is reusable anyway.
2. Who says that Polaris will be delayed? AFAIK, it will be introduced on June 1 and go on sale few weeks later, maybe as early as late June.
3. Spacing is not that important since most people use powered USB risers, then hang the cards on wired stands with low cost like zip-ties.
My wife calls them "drying fishes".
Example-I run 6 GPUs on one rig using ASrock 97 anniversary (6 slots one)-just $60 on newegg.

4. True, starting mining eth in January-Feb would have been better than right now.

QuintLeo

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I'm not quite as big as Phil.

My numbers are (right now) electric rate at almost exactly 7 cents/kwh 'till middle of June (by which point I hope to be in process of moving, to a land of VERY VERY CHEAP electric). Base rate goes way down after the first couple thousand KWH, but "transportation fee" and "energy cost surchage" actually cost me MORE than the bloody base rate.

Appx. $3700 invested into my A2 LTC farm, a fair bit of that is paid off already. Been earning 4+ LTC a day reliably, the last couple weeks closer to 4.5 - most of that time with LTC in the 3.25 ballpark but the recent runup pushed it close to $4.
Power usage total (at the wall, measured) right at 5200 watts, so appx. $8.50 in electric usage per day for that farm - consistant 9 months of the year (I've not owned the A2s quite that long).

Long-time numbers look like $13ish a day earned for a net of about $4.50, last couple week numbers $16-$18 a day earned for a net of $7.50-$9.50 a day.

Eth farm - I have $80 invested, the rest of the hardware I already had or was in process of buying for other intended usage when I started working on Ethereum.

Ballpark 80Mh total - most of the time that worked out to about .8 ETH/day or ballpark $8/day earned - recent has been more like $10/day earned with the price runup.
Ballpark 1400 watts used (and this is nothing CLOSE to an optimised setup), so under $2.5/day.

Net $5.5 a day most of the month, up to $7.5 a day - and if I count what I paid for this gear NEW, then subtract out how much I net earned on some of it mining Litecoin and DarkCoin/Dash, I estimate the TOTAL cost of the gear to be a little over $2000.

I priced out a 2-card rig on Newegg this past week - fairly conservative estimate 48MH/s (I don't trust most of the posted MH figures, they seem to be fairly old and bigger DAG files slow cards down) at a little over $1000, would earn ballpark .48ETH/day or $6ish right now on an electric cost of ballpark $1.20/day
I had the ROI figured on more exact "current" figures at 255 days.

I did the same on a 1-card and on a 4-card rig (3 cards takes an EXPEN$IVE motherboard to get proper spacing, or you end up crowding one card on any 3-slot-only board).
The 4-card rig was deliberatly designed using blower-type cards for heat management.
ROI worked out to higher on the 1-card rig despite being able to go VERY cheap on MB/RAM and such (mini-ITC AMD A1 slot stuff, but gold power supplies don't EXIST below about 450 watts so couldn't get REAL cheap there).
4-card rig ROI worked out to be 254 days, but most likely the cards wouldn't be able to be pushed as hard as in the 2-card rig so I suspect the ACTUAL ROI would be a bit longer.

VERY VERY iffy on being able to achieve ROI, as the current price bump isn't looking real stable, hashrate is GUARENTTEED to drop over time as the DAG file keeps growing, I just couldn't justify building a complete rig out of NEW parts for ETH mining.

I can *mabye* justify it on the basis of "mine ETH to recoup some of the cost, the do my other stuff afterwards" if I set it up with NVidia cards instead of the AMD ones I specified - but then it earns less ETH and probably becomes unprofitable sooner, or fails to achieve ROI before ETH goes POS, so I'd have to justify such a rig on the basis of "going to buy it ANYWAY" not on "I can pay for this with reasonable confidence before ETH goes POS/unprofitable".

Still, for the short term for those of us with hardware that CAN mine ETH already on hand (or MOST of the parts already on hand), ETH is certainly a good option over a mythical miner that might not show up for several months IF ever.

I've not looked into undervolting my GPUs yet - PrecisionX won't let me undervolt my NVidia cards (and research indicates I'd need to mod the BIOS on them voiding the warrenttee), and I've not looked hard at undervolting the AMD cards yet (I know the tools exist, just haven't had time to dig up the right ones yet).

Amph

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Quote from: philipma1957 on May 20, 2016, 08:29:59 AM

Quote from: BitMaxz on May 20, 2016, 01:28:48 AM

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

I mine 210mh with 1800 watts. I will round up to 50 kwatts a day at 17 cent summer power cost that is 8.50 usd a day x 30 = 255 usd a month I will round up to 260 usd a month in power cost. I earn eth 27 usd a day or 810 usd a month.

net for 1800 watts is 550 usd

I have 28 th in s-7 + avalon 6 my deal is ½ the coins for free power. so I have 14th with 0 power cost that is about 950 a month for the 28th

of which I get 475 a month.

so 550 a month with 17 cent power vs 475 a month with free power

the eth gear was about 4000 usd. resale right now is around 3200

the asic gear was about 8000 usd. resale right now is around 3000

In a month who knows but right now eth coin looks better.

you can try to undervolt a bit, because i'm doing 66MH for 500w, so 210 would be around 1500w only instead of 1800w

you can save 16% in electricity, pretty big

ps_jb

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Quote from: philipma1957 on May 20, 2016, 08:29:59 AM

Quote from: BitMaxz on May 20, 2016, 01:28:48 AM

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

I mine 210mh with 1800 watts. I will round up to 50 kwatts a day at 17 cent summer power cost that is 8.50 usd a day x 30 = 255 usd a month I will round up to 260 usd a month in power cost. I earn eth 27 usd a day or 810 usd a month.

net for 1800 watts is 550 usd

I have 28 th in s-7 + avalon 6 my deal is ½ the coins for free power. so I have 14th with 0 power cost that is about 950 a month for the 28th

of which I get 475 a month.

so 550 a month with 17 cent power vs 475 a month with free power

the eth gear was about 4000 usd. resale right now is around 3200

the asic gear was about 8000 usd. resale right now is around 3000

In a month who knows but right now eth coin looks better.

Nice math - thank you!

philipma1957

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Quote from: BitMaxz on May 20, 2016, 01:28:48 AM

Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

I mine 210mh with 1800 watts. I will round up to 50 kwatts a day at 17 cent summer power cost that is 8.50 usd a day x 30 = 255 usd a month I will round up to 260 usd a month in power cost. I earn eth 27 usd a day or 810 usd a month.

net for 1800 watts is 550 usd

I have 28 th in s-7 + avalon 6 my deal is ½ the coins for free power. so I have 14th with 0 power cost that is about 950 a month for the 28th

of which I get 475 a month.

so 550 a month with 17 cent power vs 475 a month with free power

the eth gear was about 4000 usd. resale right now is around 3200

the asic gear was about 8000 usd. resale right now is around 3000

In a month who knows but right now eth coin looks better.

BitMaxz

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Looks like its more efficient to use gpu to mine ethereum even they release antminer s9
Also gpu mining is less power consumption than antminer s9. But i think ethereum difficulty increases these days because more people are choosing to mined ethereum...

QuintLeo

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Quote from: adaseb on May 18, 2016, 04:12:29 AM

Decided to update from my last S7? LOL thread in light of todays huge ETH price gain.

This is assuming revenues after the halving, since that is the most accurate Antminer S9 delivery date. Price and Specs are what some people predicted in the other thread.

I know the revenue for the GPU isn't accurate in 2 months but the price can also appreciate making the same daily revenue constant

Perhaps quote the R9 280 (Newegg has them on sale right now) - claiming 30 MH at 300 watts for almost identical up-front cost.

*HOWEVER*

It's not a fair comparison to just quote the cost of the CARD vs the cost of a complete ASIC - a FAIR comparison would be "cost of a multi-card system" vs that "ASIC system".

QuintLeo

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ETH last words I saw is good to somewhere in 2017 (date uncertain) when it goes POS.
They were ORIGINALLY talking POS in 2016, but appear to have delayed the planned date due to developmental delays/issues of some sort and decided they needed more time to get the issues sorted out.

Intel is actually doing 10nm in their lab - they've had 14nm in production for a while (Skylake).

Nvidia is releasing their first 14/16nm gear this month
(I forget for sure but I think they said somewhere that they had qualified or were working to qualify the GTX 1080 and 1070 on both Global Foundries AND on TSMC processes).

AMD is talking very late this year or early 2017 for their initial 14/16nm releases.

IIRC Samsung was the first "big" manufacturer to release products at that node - portable gear like Smartphones NEED the power efficiency of the smaller node more than anything else.

Amph

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Quote from: adaseb on May 19, 2016, 06:47:43 PM

Bitmain will really need to competitively price their S9 to get people to actually buy them?

I really don't understand why people right now would buy BTC Miners when they can get a GPU.

well buying now new gpu it's truly a bad time, because new one are coming, and you must understand that those big chinese farm don't buy asic, they directly produce them, and i can assume that they will cost less in this way

philipma1957

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Quote from: fanatic26 on May 19, 2016, 08:26:27 PM

Quote from: Goms on May 19, 2016, 03:28:22 AM

You never know, etherum might just be the competitor that btc needs.

Look at it this way, btc mining becomes more difficult as times progresses, miners are going to need an alternative source of income so they mine both btc and eth!

Maybe do some research on ethereum. ETH mining is done before the year is over. It is switching from PoW to PoS meaning there is no more mining. How exactly can it compete with bitcoin?

It does for the next 6 to 9 months as no asics will be mining them.

If it is disposable plan for it.

BTC the highway ,bridge and tunnel

ETH the taxi I drive to make my money.

My taxi won't last I plan for that. How?

I mine it and hold ⅓ sell ⅓ for fiat sell ⅓ for btc.

The closer I get to PoS I change my ratio of holdings.

fanatic26

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Quote from: adaseb on May 19, 2016, 06:47:43 PM

Bitmain will really need to competitively price their S9 to get people to actually buy them?

I really don't understand why people right now would buy BTC Miners when they can get a GPU.

It also really depends on the chips in the S9. The 14/16 nanometer chips represent the best thats possible with current tech and chances are any miners with that tech will be all thats available for the next 2-3 years. ASIC manufacturers have been playing catch up since the beginning but right now Intel is just putting out 14nm chips. ASIC manufacturers are not magically gonna pass Intel in the chip building game and pull some 8nm tech out their ass in 18 months. So if you buy a 14nm S9 you are buying a miner you wont replace for years, which hasnt been the case in this industry until now.

fanatic26

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Quote from: Goms on May 19, 2016, 03:28:22 AM

You never know, etherum might just be the competitor that btc needs.

Look at it this way, btc mining becomes more difficult as times progresses, miners are going to need an alternative source of income so they mine both btc and eth!

Maybe do some research on ethereum. ETH mining is done before the year is over. It is switching from PoW to PoS meaning there is no more mining. How exactly can it compete with bitcoin?

adaseb

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Bitmain will really need to competitively price their S9 to get people to actually buy them?

I really don't understand why people right now would buy BTC Miners when they can get a GPU.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on May 18, 2016, 02:21:10 PM

Quote from: fanatic26 on May 18, 2016, 01:58:24 PM

You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

Its not silly, when you get to ROI 500% before then vs not break even for ASIC. Also GPU != Eth. There is other very profitable options out there.

Very profitable, no - but there are a few profitable non-ETH GPU mining options out there if your electric is cheap enough.

I wouldn't count on X11, there IS an existing ASIC for it (might be 2 but I still haven't seen a REPUTABLE confirmation of existance on the second one) and they'll start selling more of them eventually (dualminer is still "out of stock" for now though).
X11 at least scales well on the "bigger" cards - it's sad that Ethereum doesn't scale for beans on stuff like the Nano and the >GTX960 cards.

ASIC for Bitcoin is probably going to become longer-term sustainable as it will be the LAST "node upgrade generation" for a while - but it's still going to be dependent on your electric price, just like ANY cryptocoin mining is very dependent on electric price cost.

Goms

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Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 09:53:18 AM

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

You never know, etherum might just be the competitor that btc needs.

Look at it this way, btc mining becomes more difficult as times progresses, miners are going to need an alternative source of income so they mine both btc and eth!

usenet

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I am interested in Eth. For now, I'm focused mainly on the BTC. But after the last increase on Eth I see here a lot of opportunities.
It might be worthwhile to ask whether Eth convert on BTC on whether Fiat money? What are you doing?

Amph

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Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 09:53:18 AM

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

i also trust bitcoin more, and this is the reaosn why i dump etheruem for bitcoin

here we are talking about the fact that asic are useless now that you can make more bitcoin with gpu buy mining something else

Quote from: VirosaGITS on May 18, 2016, 02:21:10 PM

Quote from: fanatic26 on May 18, 2016, 01:58:24 PM

You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

Its not silly, when you get to ROI 500% before then vs not break even for ASIC. Also GPU != Eth. There is other very profitable options out there.

no there aren't currently, unless you talk about those random alt that pop out from time to time and are more profitable for 1 day

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: fanatic26 on May 18, 2016, 02:42:13 PM

I understand that and I was not speaking on any random GPU coin. I was talking about ETH because it is the flavor of the month and people are seeing $$$. I was just pointing out that ETH mining is unsustainable. You can always go back to X11 mining and make money but with much smaller margins.

Well sure, but ASIC is also unsustainable, you need to keep upgrading and or have extremely low electric costs. The difference is if shit happens, the GPUs are still worth something. Meanwhile S7's are now cheaper than the S5's were months ago.

The only thing is ROI% at the end of the year to me, everything else seem moot to me.

Having both ASIC and GPU, its pretty easy for me to compare.

Overall it seem GPU is always more $/W. But often more $/Hash. Also the GPUs i bought 250$ in 2014 still sell for 200$~

fanatic26

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I understand that and I was not speaking on any random GPU coin. I was talking about ETH because it is the flavor of the month and people are seeing $$$. I was just pointing out that ETH mining is unsustainable. You can always go back to X11 mining and make money but with much smaller margins.

philipma1957

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Quote from: fanatic26 on May 18, 2016, 01:58:24 PM

You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

and you realize that AMD Nvidia and Intel all benefit directly from GPU mining while they don't benefit from asic mining.

I can argue a mutually benefit deal between any solid gpu coin and btc on these grounds.

Intel, Amd , Nvidia simply prop up any gpu coin via coin purchases of that particular coin. It is simply a way to advertise gpus and cpus to use for mining.

So I mine an eth coin with price boasted by one of the companies above. I make a profit I sell to cash or btc.

So btc has demand created by my purchase of it with an eth coin.

So who gains directly
1 ) me
2 ) intel why I purchased a chip
3 ) Amd why I purchased a card
4 ) Gigabyte why I purchased a board
5 ) silverstone why I purchased a titanium psu
6 ) windows why I purchased an os
7 ) ebay why I purchased some of it from them
8 ) amazon why I purchased some of it from them
9 ) newegg why I purchased some of it from them
10) corsair why I purchased some of it from them
11) electric power companies why power sales
so the nine companies above should all buy some Eth coin with cash as advertisement.

been really thinking about this economically.

Now the indirect people that benefit from eth coins

1) crypto coin exchanges why commissions on eth to whatever
2) asic builders of btc gear why you will still need btc to exchange to it so mining btc is needed
3) coinbase why you will still need fiat.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: fanatic26 on May 18, 2016, 01:58:24 PM

You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

Its not silly, when you get to ROI 500% before then vs not break even for ASIC. Also GPU != Eth. There is other very profitable options out there.

fanatic26

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You all realize that ETH is shifting from PoW to PoS when Serenity drops right? Its not like you will be able to mine ETH for years so comparing it to mining BTC in the long run seems kind of silly.

Biodom

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Quote from: scyth3 on May 18, 2016, 12:02:27 PM

ETH is in the "return to normal" stage of its bubble. The profit calculations won't look as pretty at the bottom.

Not yet, but possible. We can tell for sure ONLY if prior 0.036 per btc peak is not exceeded (or $15-16/eth), so it can still go to higher highs.

scyth3

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ETH is in the "return to normal" stage of its bubble. The profit calculations won't look as pretty at the bottom.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 11:36:58 AM

I agree on all of this, I still believe this is short term guessing.

Somewhat. You could say that maybe GPU mining as a whole will drop in value drastically. Putting aside that this could happen with BTC as well, i'm basing my feelings on the matter with the halving. Basically, the S7 at the moment is not so great and once the halving hit, the S9 and similar will be as good as the S7 now. Maybe biased, but we'll see.

Some people think that BTC will skyrocket to match, but i dont think so. I think the price already adjusted to the upcoming halving and will slowly follow the overall mean. I'm betting that it will happen pretty much like the first halving. Probably nothing world shattering. Meanwhile, whats going on with GPU at the moment feel like the Scrypt gold rush, but more stable, and much more ASIC resistant, so we'll see.

HerbPean

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Quote from: VirosaGITS on May 18, 2016, 11:30:34 AM

Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 11:03:36 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 18, 2016, 10:43:39 AM

Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 09:53:18 AM

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

Well I think it is best to have a finger in two different pies..

I agree on your point, my post was a direct reply to the OP.

You can do the math without Eth, for instance you could do the math on Lyra, or X11. The numbers get tighters, but if you want, you can compare to the the current S7, for there be no speculation, then, and the Antminer is still not only behind on profitability, but also on power efficiency... and noise i suppose.

Now assuming the S9 to have twice better effiency at double the price, the numbers are still bad and its not a speculative only thing, its simple deduction. Unless you expect the S9 to sell for less than the S7.

I agree on all of this, I still believe this is short term guessing.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 11:03:36 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 18, 2016, 10:43:39 AM

Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 09:53:18 AM

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

Well I think it is best to have a finger in two different pies..

I agree on your point, my post was a direct reply to the OP.

You can do the math without Eth, for instance you could do the math on Lyra, or X11. The numbers get tighters, but if you want, you can compare to the the current S7, for there be no speculation, then, and the Antminer is still not only behind on profitability, but also on power efficiency... and noise i suppose.

Now assuming the S9 to have twice better effiency at double the price, the numbers are still bad and its not a speculative only thing, its simple deduction. Unless you expect the S9 to sell for less than the S7.

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Merit: 1000

Quote from: talks_cheep on May 18, 2016, 07:57:53 AM

If people knew the truth, the AMD video cards will go up in value or will be sold out, just like it did before. However, I'm counting on these people brushing off the truth and staying ignorant.

Bitmain S9 will suck, just like S7 sucked, just like S5 sucked, But they will be Best Sellers. Life goes on, bitcoin stays at around $450, and we will be screwed.

I don't see the video card's going up like they did with litecoin long ago. I just don't think the amount of cards being bought is near the same. When that happened there were some models that were out of stock for long periods of time. Look at newegg or other respectable site, and we don't see the running out of cards we once did.

So I could be wrong, but I just don't see the selling out. Without that... I don't think price will skyrocket on cards like it once did long ago.

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 18, 2016, 10:43:39 AM

At biodom the psus are all plat or titanium the cpus are all intel t type

2500t 1 r9 380 1 hd7970 doing 35mh
3570t 2 r9 390's doing 55mh
6400t 2 r9 390's doing 55mh
6500t 2 r9 390's doing 55mh

Thanks. Yes, using plat and titanium could easily account for most power savings, plus I have more power-hungry AMD (FX 4350-125W) on one rig-got it to run geth simultaneously (Intel's i3 and G3258 on other two-just for mining).

HerbPean

legendary

Activity: 1638

Merit: 1005

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 18, 2016, 10:43:39 AM

Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 09:53:18 AM

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

Well I think it is best to have a finger in two different pies..

I agree on your point, my post was a direct reply to the OP.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: HerbPean on May 18, 2016, 09:53:18 AM

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

Well I think it is best to have a finger in two different pies..

Btc is my old favorite apple pie.

Eth is a new peppermint patty pecan pie.

I have 4000 usd worth of avalon 6's and s-7's
I have 2500 usd worth of eth mining pc's

at the moment eth is crushing btc and my btc is using the solar array at under 5 cents a kwatt while my eth is spending 17 cents a kwatt in my house

Since it can do a complete flip in a month. I will keep my levels at this.

ETH coin rigs can be temperamental ie babysit the mofos.

The solar array with avalon 6's is rock fucking solid almost no work at all. Here are we are one full month in the 6 ½ avalon 6's stage and look at the stability below
22th n avg on and on and on:

Code:

Mining Rewards

The rewards you've earned for each block the pool has found.
See the Payments page for the payments you've been sent.

Block	Block UTC       Miner Reward       N Diff       N Range	       Pool N Avg	Your %	Your N Diff  -  N Avg         BTC Reward
412306	18/May 13:20	25.07857716	991.031G	31hr 49m 18s	37.16PHs	0.06%	599.590M	22.48THs	0.01517295
412283	18/May 10:36	25.50242489	974.919G	31hr 17m 7s	37.18PHs	0.06%	589.542M	22.48THs	0.01542154
412274	18/May 08:42	24.99023939	973.325G	31hr 12m 55s	37.20PHs	0.06%	588.858M	22.51THs	0.01511899
412259	18/May 06:54	25.01620095	986.504G	31hr 39m 8s	37.18PHs	0.06%	597.988M	22.54THs	0.01516405
412248	18/May 04:45	25.36419723	979.097G	31hr 27m 1s	37.14PHs	0.06%	594.330M	22.55THs	0.01539653
412237	18/May 02:20	25.33802824	975.851G	31hr 21m 54s	37.12PHs	0.06%	594.923M	22.63THs	0.01544719
412187	17/May 17:32	25.05722743	994.502G	31hr 54m 34s	37.18PHs	0.06%	599.183M	22.40THs	0.01509687
412157	17/May 12:20	25.27988034	993.556G	31hr 33m 28s	37.56PHs	0.06%	590.006M	22.31THs	0.01501201
412125	17/May 07:44	25.60716477	980.334G	30hr 48m 50s	37.96PHs	0.06%	572.594M	22.17THs	0.01495666
412115	17/May 05:31	25.20655869	987.202G	31hr 1m 17s	37.97PHs	0.06%	577.539M	22.21THs	0.01474648
412109	17/May 04:21	25.45192254	976.562G	30hr 39m 26s	38.00PHs	0.06%	571.339M	22.23THs	0.01489068
412104	17/May 03:19	25.02351819	993.452G	31hr 9m 16s	38.04PHs	0.06%	578.509M	22.15THs	0.01457174
412071	16/May 23:15	25.08989713	992.334G	30hr 55m 43s	38.28PHs	0.06%	573.559M	22.12THs	0.01450169
411987	16/May 08:53	25.63398501	984.328G	30hr 55m 45s	37.97PHs	0.06%	578.961M	22.33THs	0.01507736
411883	15/May 14:45	25.16458168	973.274G	30hr 28m 57s	38.09PHs	0.06%	575.735M	22.53THs	0.01488598
411872	15/May 12:46	25.14154486	988.553G	30hr 53m 32s	38.18PHs	0.06%	585.776M	22.62THs	0.01489784
411777	14/May 21:23	25.02282113	981.647G	32hr 53m 31s	35.61PHs	0.06%	624.073M	22.64THs	0.01590803
411773	14/May 20:25	24.96504603	980.215G	33hr 10m 49s	35.25PHs	0.06%	629.518M	22.64THs	0.01603316
411745	14/May 16:35	25.20429048	976.175G	33hr 58m 57s	34.27PHs	0.07%	640.630M	22.49THs	0.01654069
411741	14/May 15:04	24.96565803	987.993G	34hr 46m 59s	33.89PHs	0.07%	655.839M	22.50THs	0.01657244
411708	14/May 08:48	25.23610725	985.009G	36hr 10m 6s	32.49PHs	0.07%	686.579M	22.65THs	0.01759027
411680	14/May 03:34	25.10574814	978.419G	36hr 55m 39s	31.61PHs	0.07%	701.476M	22.66THs	0.01799953
411668	14/May 01:53	25.18561469	984.861G	37hr 25m 42s	31.39PHs	0.07%	712.061M	22.70THs	0.01820935
411656	14/May 00:07	25.11204797	972.629G	37hr 10m 54s	31.21PHs	0.07%	706.935M	22.68THs	0.01825216
411623	13/May 18:37	25.54694452	982.113G	37hr 54m 38s	30.91PHs	0.07%	720.071M	22.66THs	0.01873065
411531	13/May 04:18	24.99665040	990.471G	38hr 56m 39s	30.34PHs	0.07%	741.296M	22.71THs	0.01870819
411510	13/May 01:04	25.19107765	988.916G	38hr 48m 57s	30.40PHs	0.07%	735.946M	22.62THs	0.01874706
411480	12/May 19:52	24.78704238	981.123G	38hr 21m 48s	30.51PHs	0.07%	725.175M	22.55THs	0.01832077
411452	12/May 14:39	25.08180617	974.642G	38hr 13m 29s	30.42PHs	0.07%	718.912M	22.44THs	0.01850075
411400	12/May 07:07	24.89264446	976.440G	38hr 40m 1s	30.13PHs	0.07%	725.118M	22.37THs	0.01848562
411385	12/May 04:43	25.24601267	979.675G	38hr 31m 22s	30.34PHs	0.07%	723.478M	22.41THs	0.01864386
411364	11/May 23:59	24.92242155	983.247G	38hr 28m 36s	30.49PHs	0.07%	724.326M	22.46THs	0.01835955
411323	11/May 16:46	25.36495568	974.678G	37hr 49m 51s	30.74PHs	0.07%	704.918M	22.23THs	0.01834475
411251	11/May 02:41	24.95618500	904.177G	35hr 28m 56s	30.40PHs	0.07%	662.394M	22.27THs	0.01828274
411246	11/May 02:07	24.98398268	908.121G	35hr 38m 13s	30.40PHs	0.07%	665.820M	22.29THs	0.01831787
411191	10/May 18:15	25.13044711	906.750G	35hr 29m 32s	30.48PHs	0.07%	662.351M	22.26THs	0.01835694
411152	10/May 11:50	25.31858547	910.733G	35hr 55m 39s	30.24PHs	0.07%	671.294M	22.29THs	0.01866212
411116	10/May 06:25	25.04141765	894.147G	35hr 18m 18s	30.22PHs	0.07%	660.651M	22.33THs	0.01850214
411093	10/May 02:56	25.30034127	896.272G	35hr 31m 9s	30.10PHs	0.07%	666.161M	22.38THs	0.01880466
411062	9/May 21:39	25.07483360	897.357G	35hr 40m 0s	30.02PHs	0.07%	668.130M	22.35THs	0.01866954
410901	8/May 23:54	25.06577197	910.956G	35hr 20m 41s	30.75PHs	0.07%	662.632M	22.37THs	0.01823289
410865	8/May 19:13	24.91699397	898.298G	34hr 31m 49s	31.04PHs	0.07%	644.394M	22.26THs	0.01787419
410864	8/May 19:07	24.83795811	895.875G	34hr 25m 59s	31.04PHs	0.07%	642.458M	22.26THs	0.01781201
410756	8/May 03:55	24.84362262	910.960G	33hr 41m 48s	32.25PHs	0.07%	624.381M	22.11THs	0.01702806
410747	8/May 03:10	25.01506222	912.993G	33hr 43m 49s	32.29PHs	0.07%	625.063M	22.11THs	0.01712606
410727	7/May 22:24	24.88853313	903.942G	32hr 58m 46s	32.70PHs	0.07%	610.592M	22.09THs	0.01681163
410594	7/May 02:28	25.01057751	909.493G	32hr 44m 46s	33.14PHs	0.07%	602.478M	21.95THs	0.01656783
410590	7/May 01:47	25.09562511	914.675G	32hr 52m 37s	33.19PHs	0.07%	603.802M	21.91THs	0.01656629
410553	6/May 19:51	25.14472496	901.500G	32hr 22m 55s	33.21PHs	0.07%	595.154M	21.93THs	0.01660009
410526	6/May 15:06	25.07581011	900.961G	32hr 11m 35s	33.39PHs	0.07%	590.031M	21.87THs	0.01642190
410397	5/May 20:25	24.98753074	894.509G	31hr 4m 27s	34.34PHs	0.06%	569.100M	21.85THs	0.01589744
410176	4/May 10:15	25.18610059	893.930G	28hr 53m 59s	36.90PHs	0.06%	536.729M	22.16THs	0.01512210
410067	3/May 18:56	25.01554062	898.208G	28hr 34m 11s	37.51PHs	0.06%	536.607M	22.41THs	0.01494476
410038	3/May 15:02	25.41024033	911.881G	29hr 12m 45s	37.24PHs	0.06%	548.291M	22.39THs	0.01527852
410032	3/May 13:31	25.07598218	913.117G	29hr 16m 1s	37.22PHs	0.06%	549.109M	22.38THs	0.01507962
409960	3/May 01:32	24.98694358	913.132G	29hr 21m 28s	37.11PHs	0.06%	545.313M	22.16THs	0.01492194
409895	2/May 16:37	25.09323139	911.012G	29hr 0m 35s	37.47PHs	0.06%	537.344M	22.10THs	0.01480079
409873	2/May 11:57	25.42114604	902.181G	28hr 33m 14s	37.70PHs	0.06%	528.701M	22.09THs	0.01489743
409853	2/May 09:02	25.30150488	904.777G	28hr 46m 11s	37.52PHs	0.06%	532.939M	22.10THs	0.01490327
409803	2/May 01:15	25.13430343	913.476G	29hr 28m 35s	36.97PHs	0.06%	548.622M	22.21THs	0.01509533
409760	1/May 18:40	25.08955121	896.292G	29hr 13m 48s	36.58PHs	0.06%	546.598M	22.31THs	0.01530068
409728	1/May 13:35	25.04394606	909.595G	29hr 32m 41s	36.73PHs	0.06%	554.582M	22.39THs	0.01526933
409721	1/May 12:37	25.02056699	907.093G	29hr 23m 45s	36.81PHs	0.06%	551.662M	22.39THs	0.01521662
409702	1/May 09:15	25.11982597	912.269G	29hr 9m 13s	37.33PHs	0.06%	545.632M	22.33THs	0.01502427
409592	30/Apr 15:54	25.17775076	899.855G	26hr 37m 59s	40.31PHs	0.06%	500.012M	22.40THs	0.01399022
409453	29/Apr 18:03	25.12365115	906.522G	27hr 27m 35s	39.39PHs	0.06%	506.775M	22.02THs	0.01404493
409446	29/Apr 17:15	25.00638791	899.005G	27hr 20m 9s	39.24PHs	0.06%	503.909M	21.99THs	0.01401654
409287	28/Apr 15:37	25.67225217	910.011G	27hr 3m 10s	40.13PHs	0.06%	500.865M	22.09THs	0.01412986
409284	28/Apr 14:35	25.21066608	902.585G	26hr 45m 43s	40.24PHs	0.05%	494.977M	22.07THs	0.01382552
409225	28/Apr 04:53	24.99319508	906.091G	26hr 54m 54s	40.16PHs	0.05%	497.022M	22.03THs	0.01370962
409158	27/Apr 15:57	25.32558476	910.873G	27hr 29m 4s	39.54PHs	0.06%	512.971M	22.27THs	0.01426247
409157	27/Apr 15:45	25.55104247	904.301G	27hr 16m 56s	39.54PHs	0.06%	508.777M	22.25THs	0.01437552
409130	27/Apr 11:05	25.08530055	899.712G	27hr 16m 44s	39.35PHs	0.06%	510.968M	22.35THs	0.01424654
409112	27/Apr 07:57	25.24292047	920.010G	28hr 6m 24s	39.05PHs	0.06%	529.456M	22.47THs	0.01452703
409108	27/Apr 07:25	25.11426863	901.933G	27hr 34m 40s	39.02PHs	0.06%	520.098M	22.50THs	0.01448208
409100	27/Apr 06:26	25.76185411	919.352G	28hr 6m 45s	39.02PHs	0.06%	528.898M	22.45THs	0.01482065
409066	26/Apr 23:37	24.94429725	908.226G	27hr 26m 19s	39.49PHs	0.06%	518.228M	22.53THs	0.01423304
409062	26/Apr 23:15	24.95003300	895.784G	27hr 4m 14s	39.48PHs	0.06%	511.330M	22.54THs	0.01424194
408929	26/Apr 01:34	24.94088762	913.533G	28hr 24m 13s	38.37PHs	0.06%	529.599M	22.24THs	0.01445887
408897	25/Apr 20:10	25.03157317	914.413G	28hr 47m 58s	37.88PHs	0.06%	539.917M	22.37THs	0.01477994
408893	25/Apr 19:45	24.78105111	900.269G	28hr 22m 12s	37.86PHs	0.06%	532.179M	22.38THs	0.01464890
408887	25/Apr 18:23	25.17471901	907.362G	28hr 35m 18s	37.87PHs	0.06%	535.451M	22.35THs	0.01485606
408877	25/Apr 16:58	25.28237660	914.083G	28hr 46m 32s	37.90PHs	0.06%	538.002M	22.31THs	0.01488046
408861	25/Apr 13:49	25.50099556	895.923G	28hr 2m 11s	38.12PHs	0.06%	521.698M	22.20THs	0.01484927
408845	25/Apr 11:14	25.04678048	908.211G	28hr 26m 38s	38.09PHs	0.06%	530.120M	22.24THs	0.01461972
408802	25/Apr 01:54	25.32361936	908.410G	28hr 1m 30s	38.67PHs	0.06%	526.864M	22.43THs	0.01468732
408760	24/Apr 18:54	24.98813574	915.565G	27hr 38m 46s	39.51PHs	0.06%	521.979M	22.53THs	0.01424615
408702	24/Apr 07:26	25.10350124	903.784G	27hr 9m 25s	39.70PHs	0.06%	514.894M	22.62THs	0.01430169
408692	24/Apr 05:12	24.89217823	916.001G	27hr 16m 16s	40.07PHs	0.06%	517.845M	22.65THs	0.01407235
408679	24/Apr 03:26	25.16586220	914.793G	27hr 2m 35s	40.36PHs	0.06%	515.416M	22.74THs	0.01417905
408670	24/Apr 01:58	25.22180576	894.453G	26hr 23m 32s	40.43PHs	0.06%	503.099M	22.74THs	0.01418638
408629	23/Apr 18:45	24.88946448	909.361G	27hr 24m 10s	39.59PHs	0.06%	521.134M	22.69THs	0.01426360
408575	23/Apr 10:37	24.99788304	918.946G	28hr 27m 4s	38.53PHs	0.06%	539.967M	22.64THs	0.01468859
408565	23/Apr 09:03	24.99373459	915.411G	28hr 26m 14s	38.40PHs	0.06%	538.707M	22.60THs	0.01470847
408490	22/Apr 20:32	24.95785587	916.584G	29hr 2m 1s	37.66PHs	0.06%	543.539M	22.34THs	0.01480012
408485	22/Apr 20:14	24.96985537	906.907G	28hr 43m 45s	37.66PHs	0.06%	537.403M	22.32THs	0.01479631
408426	22/Apr 10:39	25.01409291	903.025G	28hr 31m 18s	37.77PHs	0.06%	530.291M	22.18THs	0.01468925
408407	22/Apr 06:57	24.96369611	909.948G	28hr 52m 2s	37.61PHs	0.06%	533.886M	22.06THs	0.01464671
408395	22/Apr 04:37	25.28405735	907.654G	28hr 52m 42s	37.50PHs	0.06%	534.147M	22.07THs	0.01487946
408392	22/Apr 04:11	25.30613726	893.503G	28hr 27m 12s	37.46PHs	0.06%	527.176M	22.10THs	0.01493089
408373	22/Apr 00:19	25.24461736	906.960G	29hr 15m 48s	36.98PHs	0.06%	544.680M	22.21THs	0.01516079
408368	21/Apr 23:25	25.08589425	899.347G	29hr 2m 53s	36.94PHs	0.06%	540.269M	22.19THs	0.01506996
408360	21/Apr 22:25	24.90734485	916.577G	29hr 40m 11s	36.86PHs	0.06%	552.091M	22.20THs	0.01500268
408341	21/Apr 19:09	24.94680087	903.134G	29hr 28m 33s	36.55PHs	0.06%	546.285M	22.11THs	0.01508975
408247	21/Apr 04:37	24.86406037	914.520G	30hr 20m 37s	35.96PHs	0.06%	563.961M	22.17THs	0.01533301
408238	21/Apr 03:16	25.10680749	895.594G	29hr 48m 3s	35.85PHs	0.06%	555.359M	22.23THs	0.01556876
408220	20/Apr 23:44	24.87973077	900.973G	30hr 15m 15s	35.53PHs	0.06%	566.183M	22.33THs	0.01563473
408204	20/Apr 21:30	24.97983089	903.431G	30hr 20m 32s	35.52PHs	0.06%	568.636M	22.36THs	0.01572276
408172	20/Apr 18:22	24.93481366	902.902G	30hr 18m 47s	35.54PHs	0.06%	567.251M	22.33THs	0.01566537
408120	20/Apr 10:32	25.18059672	908.563G	30hr 14m 35s	35.84PHs	0.06%	567.489M	22.39THs	0.01572781
408102	20/Apr 07:02	25.25840154	913.248G	30hr 28m 29s	35.75PHs	0.06%	573.229M	22.44THs	0.01585423
408026	19/Apr 18:22	25.00513137	905.874G	30hr 24m 41s	35.54PHs	0.06%	545.095M	21.38THs	0.01504642
407989	19/Apr 12:03	24.94276248	895.952G	30hr 28m 14s	35.08PHs	0.06%	514.356M	20.14THs	0.01431937

At biodom the psus are all plat or titanium the cpus are all intel t type

2500t 1 r9 380 1 hd7970 doing 35mh
3570t 2 r9 390's doing 55mh
6400t 2 r9 390's doing 55mh
6500t 2 r9 390's doing 55mh

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 18, 2016, 09:14:36 AM

I am now up to 200mhs

I use about 1850 watts

These are pretty good numbers if this includes total power.
I have ~220 mh and use about 2200-2300w at the wall ( R9 390, 7950 and R7 370 on three separate rigs).

I do want to mine btc at home, but i can't because:
a. too loud
b. in 2 mo it would not make any sense to do it financially (at least using S7). S9-who knows, but as i posted before, it is a dead end, in my opinion, as only low cost producers can mine semi profitably. You don't need S7-9 to do it as a hobby.

HerbPean

legendary

Activity: 1638

Merit: 1005

Why do you stop yourself at one frame of an entire movie ?

My trust is in Bitcoin, not the altcoin.

We shall see in future what ETH will do but those kind of comparisons based on speculation and this title is pretty much a joke.

If you don't want to mine Bitcoin anymore why don't you move your irony in the Alt coins section ?

For now ETH mining is great, will it last long or do better in the long term then BTC ?

That's the real question you have to ask yourself.

VirosaGITS

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1068

Yep, the S9's specs is purely speculative right now but even in the best case scenario, ASIC is not doing too well for us unprivileged tiny end user miners.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

I am now up to 200mhs

I use about 1850 watts

I earn about 650 usd with the r9 miners.

I pay 17 cents for power in the summer!!

So my power is about 50 x .17 a day = $8.50 x 30 or 255 in power cost.

So I net 400 a month.

I have my s-7s. In the solar array but frankly. ETH coin could put a real hurt on BTC.

Here is why

AMD and Nvidia and Intel all benefit with a strong gpu coin.

They have the ability to prop up prices of ETH coin as advertisement.
I can see ETH coin sticking around for a while.
BTC is in serious trouble due to ASIC mining builders doing too much self mining.

I can see a solid gpu coin always existing . Should be lots of fun from now until sept 1

Dekker3D

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice

Quote from: talks_cheep on May 18, 2016, 07:57:53 AM

If people knew the truth, the AMD video cards will go up in value or will be sold out, just like it did before. However, I'm counting on these people brushing off the truth and staying ignorant.

Bitmain S9 will suck, just like S7 sucked, just like S5 sucked, But they will be Best Sellers. Life goes on, bitcoin stays at around $450, and we will be screwed.

Then they'll flood the mining industry with S9 causing the difficulty increases then the S7s will be obsolete, poor consumers.

talks_cheep

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

If people knew the truth, the AMD video cards will go up in value or will be sold out, just like it did before. However, I'm counting on these people brushing off the truth and staying ignorant.

Bitmain S9 will suck, just like S7 sucked, just like S5 sucked, But they will be Best Sellers. Life goes on, bitcoin stays at around $450, and we will be screwed.

adaseb

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 1723

Decided to update from my last S7? LOL thread in light of todays huge ETH price gain.

This is assuming revenues after the halving, since that is the most accurate Antminer S9 delivery date. Price and Specs are what some people predicted in the other thread.

I know the revenue for the GPU isn't accurate in 2 months but the price can also appreciate making the same daily revenue constant

Topic: S9? LOL (Read 3014 times)