Satis Group-Bitcoin might reach 96K by 2023

Febo

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Quote from: upsidedown75 on September 11, 2018, 03:00:52 PM

Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

I really hate people who think they can even think what bitcoin can be couple months from now let alone 2023. There is not a single human who can even come close without being lucky. If it reaches those levels they are just purely lucky and this is not a legit fact based guess.

Can it be 96 thousand dollars when we hit 2023 ? Yes it can, it is one of the possibilities but it is definitely not a sure thing like they are proposing. I think the main point should be their other coin thoughts, they believe that monero will be 18 thousand dollars which is three times the price of bitcoin right now. I think monero has an upside but that is just dreaming.

They are posting an average price. On 7th January Bitcoin was $17500. Satis would not put $17500 Bitcoin price for 2018 but average price that was on my not calculated opinion something around $8000. We all are way to used to talk about ATH prices.

upsidedown75

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Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

I really hate people who think they can even think what bitcoin can be couple months from now let alone 2023. There is not a single human who can even come close without being lucky. If it reaches those levels they are just purely lucky and this is not a legit fact based guess.

Can it be 96 thousand dollars when we hit 2023 ? Yes it can, it is one of the possibilities but it is definitely not a sure thing like they are proposing. I think the main point should be their other coin thoughts, they believe that monero will be 18 thousand dollars which is three times the price of bitcoin right now. I think monero has an upside but that is just dreaming.

magneto

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Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

Look. All of these things are purely speculative with no proof or reasoning.

There are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to the long term aspect of these claims, and once new speculative data comes out from others, people quickly forget about previous ones - even though it might seem like some sort of major piece of news right now.

I'd say that it's probably a bit unlikely, but still possible.

$96k is not something that would surprise me if it happened, but I think that it'll probably take more than just half a decade for it to occur, especially when 2023 would most likely be near the tail end if not the end of the next bull market which will likely start in 2020-2021 due to the halving. At least it's not completely unreasonable like the other predictions made by media personalities like Tom Lee, or John McAfee.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 12:41:29 PM

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

People will find ways to launder their Monero's if it will be necessary. A worldwide ban would definitely hurt it's adoption and price, but people will still be using it. When people talk about illegal transactions, they immediately think of guns and drugs, but the biggest illegal use-case is shadow economy, people will use privacy coins instead of cash for selling items, providing services, receiving black salary, so going through the trouble of laundering it might be still worth it if it means less taxes.

Febo

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Quote from: reactorjuno on September 09, 2018, 07:03:37 AM

Quote from: Febo on September 09, 2018, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 12:41:29 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 08, 2018, 12:09:34 PM

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero. It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move. With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Quote from: reactorjuno on September 08, 2018, 11:28:09 AM

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future. It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

What do you mean even. Only when you own private keys of Bitcoin wallet or Monero wallet you can prove that founds there are or were yours. IF you think you will show a Bitcoin transaction to tax office and taht wil be fine you are wrong. You will need to be able to prove them that is your wallet. So make sure to keep all wallets private keys.

Many government of politicians tried to ban Bitcoin but they failed at doing so. Many governments or politicians will try to ban Monere but they will fail at doing so. You simply cant ban math. If some government somehow manage to ban Pythagorean theorem, that dont mean that a²+b²=c² will stopped be true.

Come on now

obviously politicians can not technically stop Bitcoin or Monero from existing, but if they declare it illegal then what are you going to do? If banks are officially forbidden to receive any transaction from "fishy" cryptocurrency websites then you are screwed. Oh I guess you can still keep your cryptos and never convert them to fiat currencies, so you will use them to buy flight tickets or a house, but what if airlines companies or real estate are officially forbidden to receive any payment not made in fiat?
Then Bitcoin or Monero will obviously not be dead per se, but politicians can make it difficult enough so that the market collapses. I obviously don't think the scenario I described is likely, but it is still within the realm of possibilities.

Crypto currencies were made for us to be used and transact among each other. Atomic swaps and decentralized exchanges will help us exchange cryptocurencies. They were not made for banks or centralized exchanges. Any ban in any country of any fairly launched PoW concurrency will not last long since there is no legal reason for that. As I said. Yes there will be tries of baning that will fail on long run. This try of ban will be regionally limited ( Countries cant even agree on baning Nuclear weapons, altho they all know Nuclear weapons can end humanity on Earth) and at least my speculation is that it will boost price of Monero on way higher level as it is now because of all the media exposure.
Most countries will have smart enough people to find out on time that they need untraceable crypto currency for their own use. I can not imagine witness protection program that is run on Bitcoin. Those whiteness will not be that protected as soon they will get first payment

reactorjuno

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Quote from: Febo on September 09, 2018, 04:44:33 AM

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 12:41:29 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 08, 2018, 12:09:34 PM

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero. It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move. With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Quote from: reactorjuno on September 08, 2018, 11:28:09 AM

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future. It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

What do you mean even. Only when you own private keys of Bitcoin wallet or Monero wallet you can prove that founds there are or were yours. IF you think you will show a Bitcoin transaction to tax office and taht wil be fine you are wrong. You will need to be able to prove them that is your wallet. So make sure to keep all wallets private keys.

Many government of politicians tried to ban Bitcoin but they failed at doing so. Many governments or politicians will try to ban Monere but they will fail at doing so. You simply cant ban math. If some government somehow manage to ban Pythagorean theorem, that dont mean that a²+b²=c² will stopped be true.

Come on now

obviously politicians can not technically stop Bitcoin or Monero from existing, but if they declare it illegal then what are you going to do? If banks are officially forbidden to receive any transaction from "fishy" cryptocurrency websites then you are screwed. Oh I guess you can still keep your cryptos and never convert them to fiat currencies, so you will use them to buy flight tickets or a house, but what if airlines companies or real estate are officially forbidden to receive any payment not made in fiat?
Then Bitcoin or Monero will obviously not be dead per se, but politicians can make it difficult enough so that the market collapses. I obviously don't think the scenario I described is likely, but it is still within the realm of possibilities.

Febo

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Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 12:41:29 PM

Quote from: Febo on September 08, 2018, 12:09:34 PM

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero. It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move. With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Quote from: reactorjuno on September 08, 2018, 11:28:09 AM

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future. It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

What do you mean even. Only when you own private keys of Bitcoin wallet or Monero wallet you can prove that founds there are or were yours. IF you think you will show a Bitcoin transaction to tax office and taht wil be fine you are wrong. You will need to be able to prove them that is your wallet. So make sure to keep all wallets private keys.

Many government of politicians tried to ban Bitcoin but they failed at doing so. Many governments or politicians will try to ban Monere but they will fail at doing so. You simply cant ban math. If some government somehow manage to ban Pythagorean theorem, that dont mean that a²+b²=c² will stopped be true.

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 12:41:29 PM

...
Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

there is no "even if"! the coin works. you send coins and the other party receives them, the obfuscation in the middle doesn't mean the other party doesn't receive the coins and the blockchain doesn't know about it. it just is impossible to back de-anonymize it.

your arguments are about something entirely different and it has nothing to do with the transactions and whether or not you can prove it is yours! you are arguing that if the government bans usage of XMR you will face problems. which is true about anything else!

and none of it has anything to do with its price in my opinion and the ridiculous speculation that that other user made Cheesy

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

who are "they?" monero obfuscates the origin of funds at the protocol level. how can anyone "demand" proof that doesn't exist? privacy doesn't equate to illegality. (not yet anyway)

it's good to think through the possibilities, but refusing to trade XMR because you're scared of the government? that's crazy. there's nothing illegal about XMR. (unless you're in one of the few countries where crypto is straight up banned)

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

are there any reports out there of this actually happening?

cellard

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Quote from: Febo on September 08, 2018, 12:09:34 PM

Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero. It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move. With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Quote from: reactorjuno on September 08, 2018, 11:28:09 AM

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future. It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

Febo

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Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero. It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move. With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Quote from: reactorjuno on September 08, 2018, 11:28:09 AM

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future. It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

reactorjuno

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Quote from: cellard on September 08, 2018, 11:00:45 AM

Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

tomahawk9

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Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

As an extremely bullish XMR holder myself, I can say that this very unlikely to happen. Monero simply won't reach the same popularity as bitcoin due to its features (anonymity, for instance) and how "cautious" exchanges are around this coin. That's why it won't reach the same mainstream level as Bitcoin, therefore, prices won't go as high as 1 BTC. 0.1 in a few years would probably be more than fine (and yet it still sounds far-fetched to me lol), but 1 XMR = 1 BTC? never in a million years.

cellard

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Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: Moon_Man on September 08, 2018, 09:57:58 AM

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

that will never happen. monero may grow bigger because of its anonymity features but it is not enough to make it grow as big as bitcoin. not to mention that monero faces a much bigger scaling issue than bitcoin ever did.

bobo012

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Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

It is actually good analasys, especially for the altcoins. They are doomed in the longer term. Like 99% of them. I think they underestimated ethereum and overvalued monero a bit. Either way i consider monero to be one of the 1% altcoins that i want to have in portfolio

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in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

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Quote from: LFC_Bitcoin on September 08, 2018, 03:07:48 AM

$96,000 by 2023? I’m thinking we’ll reach that figure by mid 2021. I’ll be slightly disappointed if I have to wait until 2023 to see $96,000 but I will wait & continue to HODL.

2023 is not too soon for me, and 2021 does not seem realistic anyway, in terms of market capitalization we are a very very long way to go before BTC price hits $100,000. It's funny because before signing up to this forum I had this number in mind for year 2030 or so.

okala

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Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

Before this type of speculations do move the market up but now it seems another factor is affecting the market. Bitcoin will only do well if we can build investors confident on it. Some people have expect bitcoin to be above $50,000 but it has been limit below $10,000. We are waiting for this reality to come truth.

manismanja

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maybe it could, but it is very difficult to happen if there is no good news that can trigger an increase in bitcoin prices because pergerekan bitcoin prices depend on demand.

Lucius

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Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

I am not impressed by Satis Group at all, they site looks very simple and they are in business with ICO advisory - but I can understand their speculation regarding BTC price and future of some other coins, everyone wants a little cheap promotion and this is a good way to do that.

Since you did not post any link to this news I was interested on what they base their speculations and I found this :

Quote

“Despite a lack of appeal during retail frenzies, we continue to believe that BTC and its network effect will dominate end-market share within Currencies and the overall cryptoasset market, driven by: 1) increasing liquidity and purchasing avenues, 2) increasing brand recognition, 3) its position as the default base-pair within the crypto markets, 4) declining relative volatility, 5) relative lack of attack vectors, 6) network capacity alleviation through the maturity of layer-2 solutions, and 7) an increasingly high attack and overthrow cost.”

I am not sure what to say about 96k$ by 2023, it is 5 years from now - even it is possible that price rise more than that, it is also possible to be lower than that. But their prediction for 2030 is pretty low, only 50k$ rise in 7 years does not look good at all.

It is hard to predict price of BTC, but it is even harder to predict price of other coins in long term, and they pick Monero as top altcoin just because of his anonymity. In my opinion such coins are not have good future, regulations will make their adoption very difficult or almost impossible.

More info : Satis Group Price Analysis: Bitcoin and Monero Biggest Gainers Over 10 Years

helloeverybody

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Realistically i think we will be lucky to be breaking 20k by 2023, This current bear market we're in isnt going to end any time soon. The last bear market too years to correct and theres no reason why this one wont take just as long. As for Ethereum i dont see that dying anytime soon either, its price will recover in time with bitcoins. For the record i dont hold any ethereum but im still confident it will rise.

diouf67

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It's definitely not unthinkable that we can reach such heights but any prediction that claims to have any level of accuracy is simply a lie and nothing more than speculation. Even if they are found to be right it's not because they're model was perfect it's just because they got lucky. But 5x the previous ATH in 5 years time would be more than doable for bitcoin if looking at its past growth.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: butka on September 08, 2018, 03:37:21 AM

Talking about shorter time frames, here is a relatively short-term prediction for the price of bitcoin by 2020 done by Prof. Panos Mourdoukoutas from the Department of Economics at LIU Post, NY.

There are two scenarios based on two models.

Bullish scenario: a model (Haye’s model) which takes into account the supply aspect of bitcoin, predicts a price of $55,931 by 2020.

Bearish scenario: a model (Wheatley model) which takes into account the bitcoin use (the demand aspect of bitcoin), predicts a price of $2,352 by 2020.

How good these predictions are? Probably not that accurate. With Bitcoin, we have seen that theoretical models can rarely predict the actual situation. What is certain is that the supply side will kick in, and we obviously need the use of bitcoin to follow the supply as well.

it's certainly interesting to see these models employed, but i'm skeptical as hell. i don't believe we have nearly enough data on circulating supply (lost coins, dormant coins) to speak about supply with any real level of confidence. very little BTC is actually on exchanges, producing the spot price.

i also think demand is impossible to quantify, let alone predict. we'll just have to let time do its thing, and enjoy the ride!

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

considering how bitcoin has been rising so far this prediction is very unlikely to be on the mark. the price should already be a lot higher than $96k after 5 years. and that price should be reached a lot sooner.

consider the last rally that we had. it started back in 2015 and ended in 2018 and price went up 13200% in 3 years. even if this rate is reduced and we see a slow version of it in the following 3 years (like 10000%) price should be $650k by the end of 2021.
also considering there is a halving in 2020 i'd say above $500k is easily achievable.

butka

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Talking about shorter time frames, here is a relatively short-term prediction for the price of bitcoin by 2020 done by Prof. Panos Mourdoukoutas from the Department of Economics at LIU Post, NY.

There are two scenarios based on two models.

Bullish scenario: a model (Haye’s model) which takes into account the supply aspect of bitcoin, predicts a price of $55,931 by 2020.

Bearish scenario: a model (Wheatley model) which takes into account the bitcoin use (the demand aspect of bitcoin), predicts a price of $2,352 by 2020.

How good these predictions are? Probably not that accurate. With Bitcoin, we have seen that theoretical models can rarely predict the actual situation. What is certain is that the supply side will kick in, and we obviously need the use of bitcoin to follow the supply as well.

LFC_Bitcoin

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$96,000 by 2023? I’m thinking we’ll reach that figure by mid 2021. I’ll be slightly disappointed if I have to wait until 2023 to see $96,000 but I will wait & continue to HODL.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: davis196 on September 08, 2018, 12:55:26 AM

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).

seems too slow, considering how human psychology works. i'm convinced at this point that bitcoin's future is fairly binary---mass adoption or bust. if you consider how much of the supply is already mined and/or lost, i think we'll have a gold rush on our hands. $96k isn't even 5x above the previous ATH. i expect much higher, and probably much sooner than 2023.

the top is always higher than you think. and the bottom is always lower. markets love to stay irrational! Wink

Pursuer

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we always say bitcoin is easier to predict in the long term rather than short term but 2023 is too far away, lol. besides predicting a price rise after 2020 is easy with your eyes closed since we have one halving in 2020 and another in 2024 so $96K prior to the 4th block reward halving is too tiny in my opinion... we may see it by the 3rd halving already!

as for altcoins, ETH is doomed for sure but I don't think LTC is doomed. it is not a good coin, that's for sure since it is a copy coin but this coin has been sticking around and had kept its price up for nearly as long as bitcoin since it is one of the oldest coins. but it is possible that all these pointless altcoins be replaced by better coins capable of actually competing with bitcoin instead of pumping and pretending they are competing.

mike4001_

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If it´s a gradual move to 96k in 5 years it is fine by me :-)

Just stop this pumps of hope to above 7k just so smash it a couple of days later.

davis196

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According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

Topic: Satis Group-Bitcoin might reach 96K by 2023 (Read 428 times)