Topic: 🔥Satodime🔥 NFC bearer cold wallet with mobile app (iOS & Android) (Read 461 times)

Who is the the girl in this video with that sweet French-like accent? 

Thank you.

Yes, it's possible to load Satodime applet on a SIM size card but there will be NO NFC on this one.
Thus you might have some trouble with the ownership functionnality. See https://satochip.io/satodime-ownership-explained/ for more information about NFC interface and how ownership works.

Great new promo video
I was wondering if there a way of creating miniature version of Satodime with using SIM javacards?
I know you are already selling this blank sim cards for DIY projects, but I think this would work perfectly as small cold storage gift.

We are currently working on the Seedkeeper mobile app. And plan to integrate well known mobile wallet for Satochip.
Currentrly under discussions with several existing projects.

Is new updated Satochip app also coming in near future and when can we expect it for download or maybe for early testing?
In would be ideal if we had one app that manages both Satochip and Satodime cards, if possible.

Dear Satochipers,

If you have an iPhone and like our Satodime mobile app, please rate it with ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a comment.

That's the best "Thank you" you can provide to the team.

A new update will come shortly with a few bug fix and new functionnalities! Stay tuned.

https://apps.apple.com/be/app/satodime/id1672273462

I think you really need to have some users rating and writing short review feedback on stores for Satodime app, and it's the same thing for Satochip 2FA app.
First time wanted to install I was not sure if this is genuine or fake app made by someone else.
Adding easy to find links on website would also help.

This edition : https://satochip.io/product/satodime-xcp-release-bitcoin-heads-serie-12-hodlonauthed/ is already linked to the #WeAreHodlonaut funds.
The NFT is issued from a dispenser on CounterParty and every Bitcoin collected go to this fund.

But you are pointing a good use case. Beeing able to create physical art device linked to real use cas - here the donation.

Cheers 

Hello 

It's def. possible. By the way, we also have a customization plugin for the Satodime card.
Meaning people are able to create their own custom card and later load the NFT on it. Easy and straighforward.

Take a look here for the customization plugin : https://satochip.io/product/satodime-customize-your-own-bearer-crypto-card/

And here for a tutorial video (it's said Satochip but works for Satodime too) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1rygQdGBRc

 

Sure, doing it quickly is good, but as the name implies, https://www.defendingbtc.com/ is not just meant for this one trial. It is meant to be used for future such trials, for other similarly targeted community members.

I can't find a better quote right now, but I remember something like that mentioned about this project.

Sure why not, but time is limited for creating cards like this and he already collected over 70 BTC and $74k for his defense fund.
If I would create a card this would be special card design dedicated for this trial, depicting fight between Hodlonaut and CSW Faketoshi, like good vs evil, or cat vs rat .
Funny enough it's possible that even Craig's cult members could buy this card and indirectly support the cause

What about #WeAreAllHodlonaut or https://www.defendingbtc.com/ edition?
Pretty important especially right now; I'd argue much more important (and in the future, historic) than some of the people above whose faces I've never seen and names never heard before.

Proceeds could go into the https://www.defendingbtc.com/ Bitcoin pool for this and future similar lawsuits.

Hey Tibu!
Maybe you can make something similar for one project made by member nutildah, for his Bitcoin Forum NFTs.
I don't know how many people created and purchased their NFT but maybe they would like  to have physical card for their bitcointalk forum profile.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/forum-nfts-immortalize-your-profile-on-the-btc-blockchain-5411112

Excellent questions. 

1) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While Opendime requires to break the device in order to retrieve the private key, Satodime relies on the secure chip.

Satodime is a smartcard that stores cryptographic keypairs securely in a secure chip (also called Secure Element).
Each keypair can be associated with a specific address on a blockchain.

Each keypair is generated inside the secure chip and can be in any one of 3 states at any time:
   - uninitialized: the keypair has not been generated yet
   - sealed: the keypair has been generated securely inside the chip
   - unsealed: the private key has been revealed

Since the private key is generated inside the secure chip, a Satodime bearer can be certain that nobody (including himself) knows the private key until the key is unsealed.
In effect, a Satodime allows to physically transfer cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin from one person to another, without having to trust the bearer of the Satodime, AS LONG AS THE KEY IS IN THE SEALED STATE.
YOU SHOULD NEVER ACCEPT A SATODIME FROM SOMEONE IF A KEYSLOT IS UNSEALED!

Depending on the model, from 1 up to 3 keypairs can be stored simultaneously on a single Satodime.

The state function is how you can check if the vault has been redeem or not.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Satodime security features
-----------------------------------------

- Satodime authenticity:
The Satodime includes a cryptographic mechanism that allows to check whether the card is an authentic Satodime or a fake one. If the card is not authenticated, you should be extremely careful and avoid to store any valuable on it. The authentication mechanism is based on a unique digital certificate issued for each authentic Satodime and verified with a trusted Public Key Infrastructure.

- Secure key generation:
Private/public keypairs stored on the Satodime are always generated randomly inside the secure chip. As long as the keyslot is sealed, nobody has access to the private key. To prove that the private keys were not pre-generated during manufacturing and that no backdoor was inserted in the firmware, the user is prompted for a 64-hex random value during the sealing process. This random input is used to provide entropy during the key generation process. When the keyslot is unsealed and the private key is revealed, the entropy data (including user input) is provided and allows to ensure that the key generation process was indeed random.

- Transfer of ownership protection:
Satodime (and the SatodimeTool) supports communication through 2 interfaces: the NFC (Near Field Communication)  wireless interface and the wired interface through a standard smartcard reader.
It is important to note that the behavior of the Satodime is slightly different according to the interface used: the wired interface is considered 'trusted' while the NFC is not. In practice, this means that anyone can perform any operation via the wired (trusted) interface, while some sensitive operations can only be performed via the NFC interface by the legitimate owner. Sensitive operations include all operations that change the state of a keyslot (such as unsealing). This ensures that the current owner of a Satodime can confidently let a potential acquirer scan the card on his own device (e.g. to check the available balance) without the risk of unsealing and sweeping a private key.
To distinguish the legitimate owner of the card from other users, a pairing process is initiated when the card is transfered to a new owner. To initiate this transfer, the former owner simply click on the 'Transfer card' button in the 'Card info' tab in the main menu. Immediatly after, the card should be disconnected and provided the new owner to initiate new pairing. A message is then shown to confirm that a new pairing has been successfully established with the new owner through the SatodimeTool. If the transfer of ownership has not been initiated by the previous owner, the new owner SHOULD perform this transfer as soon as possible. The procedure is the same, except that in this case, it MUST be done via the 'trusted' wired interface (since pairing is a sensitive operation and it can only be done via the NFC interface by the legitimate owner).

You will be able to use any NFC ready smartphone to check the status of a vault, at anytime, anywhere. Mobile app is under development. It will be released Q1/2022.



If you have any questions, just ask

Really interesting product. I have been evaluating opendime for some bulk requirement and this seems much better in terms of formfactor and use with mobiles

However, the following 2 things are not at all clear to me:

1.) When I give an opendime to some 3rd party they check the balance (with the wallet id / pubkey / qr) and they can check that it is still SEALED by visually seeing that the hole has not been punched out and hence they know that I did not access the private key or note it down or get the recovery seed phrase. Therefore they are ok to pay me the value on the opendime and take the opendime with them.

If i had any way to access the private key they would not do the transaction as I could go back home and enter the pvt key / recovery phrase in any other wallet and be able to spend the balance on the opendime i just gave them.

Since opendime ensures private key is only released when that hole is punched out so this "bearer instrument" thing works.

With Satodime I can't make out how to verify that the private key has never been disclosed or accessed (used to sign) ?

Opendime also has a process to verify that the firmware is not tampered and the hardware is not spoofed to look and act like opendime when it might be something else entirely (evil maid attack vector)

2.) Does this work with the NFC readers on most smartphones/mobiles ? Or do we need the USB Reader and a Laptop/PC ?


It would be great if you could clarify these points.

Are the satodime & satochip cards available in stock at satochip.io or will there be some lead period before they are shipped ?

I don't have any yubikeys myself but I saw people are still selling yubikey neo as used devices, and I guess in theory that can be flashed and used as Satochip/Satodime.
Buying used security devices is not always a best thing to do, but sometimes you can find a fortune in flea markets for few bucks.

Yeah don't worry. I really enjoy the discussion. It help us to go in the right direction.
Regarding the "collectible" part of the product, that's indeed a great usecase. You can, for example, print a #NFT on a Satodime card, seal and load the NFT on it and then share it with ease.
A way to connect the real world and the digital world together. 

Yubikey used to be compatible. A long time ago, they released "open" Yubikey where you can load your own app. Now it's no more doable.
But if you manage to find old Yubikeys, yes, we are compatible.

Back in 2015, when we where working on the Satochip dev, we started with a Yubikey : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADWikh8Fxdk

Was not saying it's bad, just that it's something to think about.

My issue with things like this is what happened to me with a opendime: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56370760
Yes they were able to recover the BTC that was stored on it, but it could have gone a different way.

Once again, using my example 10 years from now someone goes to unload one of these cards or any other device like it and it does not work, what can they do? What can Sato do to help them?

Not saying these are bad things to own (I'll be ordering some after the new year) but like all manufactured things there may be issues with them in time.

-Dave

And please note that I'm not spitting on you or the Satodime; I think it's great that you're trying to improve upon an already excellent idea.  And now that I've actually checked the price in USD, I think it's reasonable--definitely not as cheap as a three-pack of Opendimes, but not outrageous by any means. 

I'm not in need of another hardware wallet, but this interests me as a collectible.  I'm going to keep your website bookmarked, and perhaps when I get some dough I might consider buying a Satochip/Satodime.  They are really cool-looking.

It's interesting that even Yubikey is working with satochip code, so anyone who owns one of those devices can turn it into hardware wallet.

Maybe you should create some comparison image with Satodime, Opendime, Tangem Banknote and any other crypto banknote projects (price, coins support, plus/minus...).

Please have a look over here in the "Tested and Working" part : https://github.com/Toporin/SatoChipApplet
There are probably some other model... To test.

That means that I can send Satodime gift loaded with Bitcoin to someone, and he can than reset the card, load it with different amount of coins and give it to someone else?

That is interesting idea for making new DIY project, if procedure for loading your code on blank card is simple enough.
Can you please tell us what Java cards models are compatible with Satodime and Satochip?

Just a word about the price.
Opendime is cheaper "per unit". But you can buy a single unit on the website. And because you have to break it to recover the private key, that's why CoinKite is selling per bundle.
So at the end, you just pay 25€ (+- 28$) for a reusable, NFC and USB ready, multi-currency supported Satodime. VERSUS 50$ for 3 Bitcoin only non reusable USB only Opendime stick.

I'm not spitting on Opendime. I really love the product and CoinKite is an example for us. Opendime is and will remain the OG in this cryptospace. We build Satodime with the same phylosophy.

Yeah... But honestly, chip card tech is here since many years (about 40 years I guess) and will be there for a very long time. Maybe longer than the NFC tech.
But that's a good concern. People shoud carefuly check the hardware used in such devices and prefer open source solution that might be easier to move on another tech.

Hello,
Yeah, I def recon on you regarding the price. Satochip HQ fights everyday to be able to offer affordable security solutions.
Regarding Opendime, you have to break it to recover the private key. Meaning you "lost" your device after each use. With Satodime, you can safely re-use your card by resetting an unsealed vault.

Yes, we do use the same chip as our hardware wallet Satochip.

By the way, Satodime is also open source, meaning you can just buy a blank compatible javacard and create your own Satodime - be your own bank.

Yeah, there's definitely a price advantage with the Opendime, and I don't see the need to "break open" the device as a major disadvantage necessarily (though it certainly would be better if you didn't have to).  I'm also curious as to why dkbit98 doesn't like Opendimes; I think they're kind of neat, although now I realize they're not so great for long-term storage.

It's times like these when I see neat crypto-related tech that I wish I had more money to blow, because I might be interested in one of these if only as a collectible.  I also think the concept of a crypto banknote is a good one, but I agree with dkbit98 that the cost of the banknote itself ought to be less.  At the same time I do realize that when such banknotes are as fancy as the one OP is selling, they're not going to be dirt cheap.

That's why one of these would be a great collectible.  I'd love to own some of the old computers and storage drives I used to have, simply for the nostalgia and history behind them.  Since I already have all the hardware wallets I'll ever need, I wouldn't use a Satodime to store any coins on.

And since OP brought up the Tangem (which I'd never heard of), does anyone know if they're legit?  I'm not trying to go off-topic, but on Amazon, I see this and scratch my head:

The OpenDime is $50 for a 3 pack so it is cheaper. It's advantage is it just needs USB, no app no special hardware.
The Satodime is more, but does have NFC and a more standard, and probably more durable design.

I do like the idea of things like this, but still see it as a limited market. I will probably get one, I have gotten just about every other thing like this over time to play with.

The biggest disadvantage I see is that while we think some of this tech will be around forever, I can see a future where all USB ports on PCs are USB C and the NFC standards on phones have changed and someone trying to cash one out has to jump through a lot hoops to do it.

As an example:
I have a REALLY nice set of noise cancelling bluetooth 1.0 headphones that are 20 years old and still working today. (back when Sony still made good stuff) Except for the fact that most BT 4.x and newer devices will not talk to them due to the lack of security. I can still connect them to an 2004 XP laptop but that is about all I can find.....
If I have 0.01 on one of these and BTC goes to $250000 in 10 years, if I have to spend hours hunting down some old equipment, will I bother for $2500 or let it sit longer if I don't need the money?

-Dave

I see that price for Satodime is the same as for regular Satochip card, and I am not a fan of Opendime by Coinkite but I believe they are cheaper to purchase.
Bitcoin Crypto Banknotes are a good idea, especially in the time when they announce removal of cash money, but banknotes should be dirt chip to buy in my opinion,  they should even be easy to make as DIY project.

One question for Satodime, what secure element are you using for this Satodime card, same chip NXP J3H145 and J3R110 like for Satochip, or something else?