Topic: Satoshi Auction - Bid on a prize where 98% of each bid is added to the prize. (Read 1089 times)

The amount that you wrote, in fact, at the current bitcoin rate, is not at all small.  It's great that you remembered a similar auction.  But apparently, it was probably a very long time ago, back when it seemed to all of us that half a bitcoin or even a whole bitcoin was not that much money.  For some reason, for quite a few years, no one else offered this.  Or I suggest, but we simply were not aware, did not know about it.  It would be nice to study this issue a little and maybe then it will become clear why the initiative did not become widespread and well-known. 

If OP would make such an analysis of the historical data, it would be a good help in further work on the project. 
And then it would be possible to draw a conclusion about the viability of this initiative.

I remembered that there was something similar in the past, too, an auction only limited not by the number of blocks, but by the time of the event, which was reduced as the amount sent by the next auction participant increased, and I even managed to win 0.48 BTC in one of them , but in any case, the idea is worthy of continuation.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11502817

Since OP promises to keep his work on GitHub, open source, this certainly deserves our praise and the approval of the entire user community of our forum. 

I join the general opinion that it may be possible to try to launch, reanimate the project in a slightly more refined form.  And don't drop it completely.  It seems to me that this would be wrong.  Yes, and it's a pity to waste so much of the OP's personal time spent on this work.  Let's hope that we will see a new proposal after some time, taking into account the refinement of the comments and suggestions made by the users of our forum. 
Anyway, well done to OP for opening this thread. 
Thank you!

That's good. So, even though the project may not be actively developed anymore, it will be available for anyone to use, modify, or build upon through its open-source status, which could lead to its continued development in the future by the community. I think it still has value as a reference and starting point for new projects.

Do you have any plans to continue development of the project in the future? Perhaps in a different form?

Hey, thanks for at least trying to bring a new project around here and keeping the source code available for anyone to check. I personally expected to see if it continued to grow.
I understand these projects need to be profitable in the long term, so it is understandable that sometimes things don't work out.

If you ever want to try again with a new project, let us know here or in the service announcement section. Good luck.

Yes, it's open-source and public domain. I'll keep it on GitHub if anybody wants to fork in in the future.

Confidence to the project is one of the way so that they can gain trust so as the project owner they need to show that they are running and offering a good project to the users here. Maybe for now they cannot earn the full trust of all forum users but if they make the operation of this project smooth without issue if there is they can solve it more faster then they can earn that good trust record.

Unless I'm missing something here - the code doesn't matter that much in this case, if at all. You can verify each transaction on blockchain, without the need of having any coding knowledge, and see all the auction bids there. It's more about who controls the auction addresses and whether they'll follow their own rules if the game gets serious and the bids accumulate to a substantial amount.

Too bad the project ended like this, I mean, it was looking nice and had potential, but as you say the trust required is too high, and for that you need a lot of operation time, at least one year up. That's the right way to build trust.

If there could be a way to avoid the risk of the users about the house running away with the money, then people would easily trust the project.

I understand your concerns about building trust, but I believe that with the right approach, your website can be successful. Building trust takes time and effort, but it's not impossible, and the best way is by providing value. Additionally, making your site more appealing by creating a better UI design and other user-friendly features will help improve the user experience and make the site more appealing to potential players. You need to make sure that your game is fun and engaging, and if it's not, then consider making some changes. There are a lot of things you can do to improve the user experience. Have you considered some themes that might make the experience more interesting? For example, Pirate Treasure or Dragons Chest could work well. Or maybe even the Heist of the Century. These are just a few ideas that I came up with, but there are many more.

But at the end, it's your call and your decision will be the best for your project. I hope my suggestions have been at least somewhat helpful to you.

I agree the game itself is risky (like all gambling, which is why I barely gamble), but I'm not bothered too much about the trust. You've invested more in reviews than the total waged amount on your site, and people deposit much larger amounts to their account in brand new online casinos, which adds up to much larger amounts than your site gets for only the running games.

I agree with all this. But I also know I'm one of the few people who doesn't get impressed by a flashy design.

To early to quit you just launch this project here so maybe you need to give a shot to try different strategy and use what other forum members suggest to do so that you can use this to make your project/ business to succeed.

Maybe you are lacking of entertainment value that's why many didn't notice or even participate on things happen on your platform. Reputation can be earn if the owner of the project is honest so do your best to prove that this platform is trustworthy and it provide top quality service.

How will you know if you won't continue? I think it's too early yet to quit this project. Projects like this are kinda rare to see so you shouldn't end this yet. I check the site and I am not bothered about its colour or design. I understand why it looked like that. It is because this was just like a mini-game and there is nothing much the player can do after they sent their bids.

It isn't the same as the online casino so people should expect less. The game is risky but risks are even everywhere. Without risk, we can't gain something. About the trust. You can gain it over time as long as you will operate fairly and players are satisfied about your service.

You have a valid point about the demand for this game is not the high and also I just want emphasize that the main reason why many people don't want this kind of game because this type of game can be dominate by a single wale alone without any chance for a small players to win unless there's an option to limit who will gonna participate on each. Jack point is also true since this game is about escrowing all the players money for the prize pool, We can't deny the fact that this kind of game really needs a high level of trust to become succesful because it doesn't have license to operate and we didn't know anything about the owner. Only the open source code gives us some level of confidence to trust it but normal user will definitely not appreciate it because not all knew how to read and examine code.

@Jack good luck on your future venture on gambling industry.

Sorry to hear that but I dont think it is related to the risk of the game and about too high trust. In my opinion it is more about the attractiveness of the game as your game is quite rare in the industry where not many people understand about the game and unfortunately it is not the current trend in the industry. If you are going to create another project in the future, it is better if you do more researches first to assure that the game you are going to launch is attractive enough.

Exactly. The risks of participating far exceed the potential reward.

On top of that, it lacks the entertainment aspect, that classic games with instant results have. Not only doesn't it stimulate dopamine release, but it's also probably more stressful having to check the results on regular basis for the game that could possibly go forever. Could be fun as a novelty for those who want to test it with small amounts, but not much more.

Better luck next time and try not to put fake info and AI-generated photos, instead of lending you credibility it drives people away. You're better off just staying anonymous.

I'm not sure the site would be a success, even if I did create dark mode, etc.

The game is too risky and the trust required is too high.

So it looks like it's time to end this project.

I will wait for the existing auctions to end and then take the site offline.

Thank you everybody for your feedback.

MY EXPERIENCE/SUGGESTIONS

The site needs a lot more to make it a bit more fun to attract a lot of members, just a few black texts on a plain white board didn't appeal to me, the website still needs a bit of design, I didn't like the overall design. 30/100

A system like this requires a large number of users to function properly. I sent in my bid ($15) yesterday to test the system and was surprised that there was no single counter bid for the entire day, and I received $16 as the pool prize, making me feel like I wasted the entire day. What is a game without competition? I believe the 144 block is too long to make it more competitive; I would have suggested a cut down time for each auction to make it faster and more competitive.

Several documents are missing from the website (no license?) And, since no escrow and I'm sending coins directly to your personal address, what guarantees do I have that if I win the auction, I'll always get my BTC back? I suppose that's why most users only send in a small amount.

There is no online support, no email, no phone number, only a link to a BTT thread? really? If I need to speak with the admin, I must create an account on BTT?

Can we only have 1-2 running auctions with a minimum bid to keep things competitive and fun? e.g

auction 1 ( min bid $50)
auction 2 ( min bid $100)

What exactly are we bidding on? Create something to make it more enjoyable (digital art, avatar, coins, etc.). I can't put money where there isn't happiness.

A dark mode option is required due to the site's design. i almost lost my sight.

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overall; I didn't enjoy my time on the site; it's still far from perfect. good luck

Yes. This is more like a form of all-pay auction, such as the Tullock auction, in which all participants submit a bid and the outcome is determined by the highest bid. However, unlike a traditional auction, in this type of auction both the winning and losing bidders are required to pay the amount of their submitted bids.

Yes.

In a regular auction, you only pay your last bid. Here, you pay every bid. I don't think it really matters, as long as it's clear.

Accumulation means adding up with the previous amount?
In that case in a regular auction how do we play it? You call 2 then I call 3, then you call 4. Basically you are adding more 2 with the previous call. So it's accumulation. I was expecting the same but it seems it's not the case.

Interesting design choice, that makes it an entirely different game play. I expect people to be less likely to overbid by a tiny amount this way, but it levels the playing field for everyone: nobody can build on their previous bids.
Maybe, when your site has many active players, you can experiment by adding "accumulation games" to see which one is more appealing.

It was. Does that mean not showing the deposit was intentional? That can be confusing if someone bids a certain amount right after someone else bids a higher amount. I'd say both bets should show up.

Hey, sorry for the late replies, I've been super busy with another project and I didn't realize the reviews had started.

The bids aren't accumulated.


Ah yep, this was unclear in the rules. Bids don't accumulate. It just takes the maximum bid that you sent.

Was this bid not added to the auction prize total?

quick one! If I bid 1BTC and someone else bids 1.3BTC, and I submit another counter 1BTC from the same address, will my bid become 2BTC? are bids accumulated. Why isn't the administrator replying to this comment? This is a horrible thing.

Do you guys need a botz ?

That would result in the prize being: 0.0001+0.98*(0.00000300+0.00000400+0.00000800+0.00000800+0.00004063+0.00004779+0.00004780)=0.00025603 BTC.
If you add 98% of my missing 0.00000666 BTC deposit, you'll get the correct Prize (after rounding down).

I checked, and that's correct. My second deposit confirmed in block 770,934, BitcoinGirl.Club's deposit confirmed in block 770,915 and the prize was sent in block 771,085.
That leaves 151 blocks after my deposit, so it extended the auction by 144 blocks. I guess the transaction was broadcasted 5 confirmations later.

There's still a flaw: my bid never showed up in the list of Participant payout addresses.

Definitely. But: I think the game is more fun if you can increase your bid. Let's say you bid 1 Bitcoin, and the Prize is at 4 Bitcoin. If you'd have to bid 1.1 Bitcoin to increase your prize, you're less likely to do so than when you need to send "only" 0.1 Bitcoin.

It was added to the winner's amount?  (I don't know for sure).
It has increased the "ending time" with 140+ blocks? (I am 99% sure it did).
This means that it was seen as a smaller (non-winning) separate bid, no matter the originating address.

So it can be "the expected behavior", just it must be documented.

OP hasn't responded yet. For the record: I don't need the refund, but if it's a bug, it should be fixed. And if this should work the way it did, it should be clearer in the Rules.

I am the culprit LOL. According to the game rules a fraction more means all previous depositor lost it. Interestingly bitcoin does not have a decimal of of 1 sat 😂

Did you get refund? I will need the piece of information before starting my review

Create a watch-only wallet in Electrum, and import the deposit address. You'll get a pop-up for every transaction.

Imagine reducing the screen brightness on every every website I visit. Without installing anything or lowering my system brightness, the dark mode option would fix this issue. imho

well just as i promise yesterday I've just sent in my bid of 0.00086546 into the Auction 37

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I'll give my review/suggestions as we discuss on. OP, it would be cool if we could be notified when a new bid or maximum bid comes in, a way to track progress nah? Is that even possible? Yes, but I don't know how.

Sniping isn't possible, as each new bet will extend the auction.

LN would be good, but unfortunately it doesn't work with the required transparency of all bets.

I do not think the motivation for this is to snipe bids, because this will be extremely risky from the operators perspective. There are always people with more money out there, so they stand a huge chance of losing the bid, if a whale snipe their "snipe" bid.

The concept are flawed... as shown by other people on this thread and the idea are poorly executed. You cannot start something like this and then not document all aspects of the rules. 

Even "satoshi bids" increase the Prize. I'd like to see this game with much higher bidding, see what happens if there are 4 bids around 0.005BTC. If a fifth user joins, the prize goes up by at least (98% of) 0.005BTC, even if he bids just one satoshi above the highest bid.
I'm still unsure what happens if someone increases his bid, or if that isn't possible at all and he has to make a new bid from a new address for the full amount.

I just reduce my screen brightness

This is my first time commenting here; I just visited your website; sorry, but it appears to be a low-budget site at first glance; this is just my honest opinion on the UX/UI design. I'll participate in the auction and then give my honest opinion.

can we have a Dark mode option on the site? black on a plain white affects the eyes.

My review:

I’m currently bidding on game 32 that still not completed so this feedback will be updated base on the results.

But I want to made a comment about the bidding rules since this game is an auction. It’s odd to see that same amount of bid is allowed on this games since auction is a bidding war without no tie winner for the price.

If possible add a minimum bid increments to avoid spam satoshi bids that typically prolonged the game due to extension of block.

I would like to see too the history of blocks being added when new bid is made. Let’s say bid 2 was made when the block remaining is 80 to check bids timeline without visiting the blockchain and easily verified all bets timestamp.

I’m wondering since there’s no rules about what is the additional block when new bid made. For example the current block 10 then new bid register, is the block counter will be added by +144 block or just +134 to reset on 144 block initial count down?

When I first checked the Past Auctions, all of them had either no players, or just one. That's a pitty, I think this game will only be fun once a few people join and bid against each other. I like the concept. The more people join, the bigger the prize gets!

Thoughts

• I can't "double click > copy" the Bidding address, because there's a link under it. Can you add a 1-click "copy" icon?
• To stop games for taking forever: how about decreasing the 144 blocks between the last bid and the end of the auction by just one block for each bid? With the exception that if 2 bids are made within the same block, that still only reduces it by one block (to prevent someone from dropping it to zero instantly by making 144 bids). For most bets, it won't matter, but at least it will give each game a hard upper limit in duration.
• Bidding the exact same amount as the previous highest bid may work to "settle" a bidding war into 50-50 (or 49-49 after the house edge) prizes.
• Do you have to bid from the same address to raise your bid (either by using another input from the same address, using the sending address to return the change to, or by funding it from another address)?
• What happens if someone uses more than one sending address (in one transaction)? Do you randomly pick one? I think this is important to know when someone wants to raise their bid.
• The required number of confirmations (5) is still quite large for penny amounts.

Game 32
I joined Game 32 (should it be called Auction 32?) with 0.00004779 BTC, after a few other players joined. My deposit with 0 confirmations was instantly added to the list of Participants (but not to the total Prize yet). After a few confirmations, everything looked as expected.


At first, only the winning addresses were shown on the leaderboard. I would have expected all transactions to show up, that can be useful if someone's deposit is already beaten by someone else before it had 5 confirmations. This was updated already before I posted my review. Follow-up question: can you highlight the current highest bid(s)? And how does it show it if one address made multiple deposits?

After someone bid 1 sat more than my bid, it gave me the chance to see if I can raise my existing bet by depositing 0.00000666 BTC again from the same address. I think the amount was added to the total prize, but my Bid wasn't increased (after 40 confirmations). My guess is this is not the intended behaviour. It turns out you can't raise your bid, you can only make a new higher bid.
Update: Game 32 ended, and my last deposit was never shown. But 98% of it was added to the Prize.

In coinballer, the first 100 players are stated in its rules, while here in the Satoshi auction, there is nothing like that stated in its rules, it's a bit unclear.

Apart from that, it is clear that this is in favor of the whales, I seem to be shaking my head now because I will auction without an item to be auctioned, instead, I will exceed the auction price of other players here, my understanding of satoshi auction, correct?  I am bidding without important goods. I am bidding on no goods but just increasing biddings, the question is how much are the maximum Bids? is it 1 BTCBTC?

I thought this was not a game, just an auction site to buy something, but I was wrong, this is a game, I think it's true that the big whales could have monopolized this game, although there are still not many users playing there, it still looks normal, but if this game becomes popular again of course it will lure whales to play this, it should be anticipated

I'm still working on my review, but I think you're overthinking it Or maybe I just like simple websites without eye candy, and maybe we got used to having to read fine prints everywhere. If I'd have to write an Howto for this website, I'd write: Click Current Auctions > pick one > send Bitcoin to the Bidding address from your own wallet. That's it.

The Prize (in Bitcoin).

Satoshi Auction review

1. The first impression the website offered me was that it looks too simplistic, like it was created by a beginner web designer. It's simply plain text, black on white, with no animation, nothing fancy, nothing to entertain the users.

2. The site is so simplistic that it doesn't even have a Home button. There are also some sections which are missing but they are common sense for any other website. Among others, there are no "Contact", "Terms & Conditions", "Privacy", "Disclaimer" sections. Social media links are not a must, but many websites add them as well.

3. The website is localized only in English.

4. The "Yin & Yang" picture from the top of "home" page redirects to https://decision.casino/ and there are listed Satoshi Auction and Coinballer websites. However, there is no hint for the users to click on that "Yin & Yang" picture and, furthermore, there is no information for the users about the connection between Satoshi Auction and Coinballer. A new user will ask this: (1) What is Coinballer?; (2) Why are those two websites shown if I clock the "Yin & Yang" picture -- what's the purpose of this page?

5. The website works fine with Tor, which represents a plus.

6. The most important issue, from my perspective, is that I have no idea about what kind of game this is nor how to play it, nor what I may win & lose. I just accessed the site and I see this:


Welcome to Satoshi Auction. -- okay, thank you for welcoming me. But now what? What website is this? What am I doing here? What is being auctioned? What's the purpose of the website?

Instead of finding an answer to any of the above questions, after the welcome message I see this: Payout will be returned to the address that sent the maximum bid. Please ensure you make a bid from an address you control.. What payout? Address that sent maximum bid for what? Make a bid from an address you control -- how? And bid on what?

By pure chance, I accessed also Coinballer website and there I saw, on "home" page, that there is a "New game" button. Satoshi Auction does not even have this button.

The next logic step was to access "Rules" section. But here I stumbled again on some text lines which raised me same questions.


Satoshi Auction is a form of penny-auction. -- But what is a penny auction, first of all? I believe there should be a link describing what this kind of auction represents.
In a penny auction, each bid is paid for in advance, and there are no returns. -- This line explains how such auction works, but not what it is.
The prize starts off as 10k satoshis. -- The prize for what?
Anybody can make a bid for the prize, at any time. -- Bidding on what?
This will take appoximately one day. -- This sentence has a typo: it should be written "approximately" instead of "appoximately".

Having in mind that, so far, I could not understand what kind of game this is, I returned to the forum, where I found a few more details, but far from clearing things up for me. However, I have the impression that, for fully understanding the website / game, the user is required to read everything also on the forum, in order to understand better. This should not happen; all information should be present on the website.

So I returned to the website. I can also see "Current auctions" and "Past auctions". However, there is no indication on what exactly was auctioned.

I finally access "About" section.

The source code for this host is open source and we are hosted by Google Cloud. -- Who is "we"? We who?
The Satoshi Auction concept is based on the game of Coinballer. -- Obviously, since the user does not understand anything from this website, he will click on "Coinballer" as, maybe, he will find there some more information about the purpose of this website. But Coinballer contains also no detail and looks like a mirror of Satoshi Auction. This try to understand the website / game is another dead end.
There is a thread about this site on bitcointalk.org. -- As I said above, users should not have to access the forum for properly understanding how the game works. This line should be replaced with something like "For more details, click here", and the term "here" should have a hyperlink inserted on it redirecting the user to a page containing a proper description.

I will end here this feedback, but I will come back in case I will find any other bug on the website or in case I'll have more suggestions. I hope this helps.

The fact this webpage is actually seeking to get attention by organizing a campaign and getting paid reviews leads me to see some actual commitment behind this project. I still believe this not -technically- a gambling game but it does not mean it cant be fun. I am expecting to see how all this evolves after the reviews are processed by the team of satoshi-auction.

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History of my life.
Risk management is part of gambling, trading and investments.
This is different, tho. Still, I would not be surprised if ends up being a success just by fueling greed of people.

It's not only about wallet size, it's also about risk management. Who's going to risk his entire wallet on this? That's like going all-in at 98% win chance (and winning 1.01x) in a casino: you're probably good for a while, but eventually you'll lose everything.

Yeah!  Perhaps we should agree that any new undertaking is good and it benefits the entire community of cryptocurrency lovers around the world.  However, projects in which there is no way to resolve almost the most basic issues of their functioning, especially when it comes to financial flows, of course, should be worked out to a much greater extent than the OP suggests. 

That's why I made my claim.

TBH, this is the first time I've seen a platform like this (in the Bitcoin chain) although there are some people who claim that the system implemented by Satoshi Auction has already been seen by them. The interesting thing here is about Decentralization, different from the majority of crypto gambling platforms which are usually centralized.. Although in reality users will be a bit hampered by the low scalability of Bitcoin network. Ok, let's go straight to the review.

UI/UX
The first thing I want to review is the UI/UX at Satoshi Auction, what's wrong with the UI/UX at Satoshi Auction?. For the UI, I think the interface is very plain, this is a bad thing, because it looks like a scam website that's widely circulating out there. Also, I think it would be better if we have a "Tutorial" button between the "Past Auctions" "Rules" and "About" buttons (Not everyone will understand the mechanism even after seeing "Rules").


On the "Tutorial" menu, Satoshi Auction can embed video tutorial from Youtube (you need to make the video tutorial first, LOL), to make it easier for people to understand more about the process, this will support the UX.

On the Leaderboard we can see that there are 2 columns for "Participant payout address" and "Bid", it would be better to have a column for TX Hash. Well, i know we can check it manually, but as a platform that wants to provide the best UX, Satoshi Auction should be able to provide convenience.

Auction Process (Chronologically)
I saw that there were several active auctions and decided to join one that was already filled in by @Coin_trader.


It can be seen in the picture above that in a few more blocks the auction will be finished, and that's my main reason to join and break the previous bid. Then I sent $ BTC to the provided bid address, and as it's written on the main page that we have to wait to get 6 confirmations before our bid is accepted. It wasn't long before I got 6 confirmations.


But I was a bit disappointed after getting those 6 confirmations, because in fact, the auction didn't automatically (real-time) accept my bid even after getting 6 confirmations, it takes another 1, 2 or 3 blocks before my bid comes in (Can be seen in the images below). OFC this would be a problem if the auction finished in 1, 2 or 3 more blocks.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.58627080

I have suggested here a game based on blockchain where the game isnt directly related to deep wallet but Is more related to luck on blockchain and smart moves (likewise you have around the time of "one block" to decide to play the game, moreover there Is a limit of expense...)

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Coming back on topic, the game Is serious extreme since there no limit. I like the idea , from a certain point of view Is "Amazing"... But the end of the game Is always the same since this Is not "ability" or "luck" based game but .... wallet size game

You have a valid point about the length. But this is meant to be a bidding war game, isn't it? So without a tiny bit of bidding war, it cannot be a proper review.
And if you pay attention, all the people bidding in game 32 are from the campaign, so it's not that far from bitbollo's "take a group of friends" thing

I really like the sarcasm here, But take consideration that the game is in the early development stage and open source so everyone can check the code that’s why they have a game review program launch. This game can be trusted depending on the outcome in the future. Give em a chance to prove themselves.


It’s not necessary a friend. It can be use as competition game with other member that you made some argument or challenge in the public. There’s a lot of scenario like this that person A challenge person B on something they believe is right like who holds most asset or something.  

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I still can’t give a feedback on this game since each game is so long to end especially when you enter on a bidding war. Whose bidding on game 32?  

This is my review for Satoshi Auction (part of this campaign).

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Chapter one: some thoughts while exploring the website and the game.

First contact: looking up the rules and also a little into actual and older games. And the first bid.

I will not say much about the UI, such a game doesn’t really need a too sophisticated one, still, a nicer UI (i.e. more colors, maybe some animation) should make the website more appealing for the potential players.
...But maybe it’s already in the ToDo list. For now it looks more like a proof of concept than actual place for gambling/having fun.

The rules are not clear.
There’s “the prize” and there are bids. But:
* maybe I need one more coffee, but I needed to read the rules twice to see that all the bids (OK, 98% of them) become part of the prize, being added to ther starting 10k satoshi
* it’s not clear what could be the minimum bid, and I would not be surprised some will try to send even amounts smaller than the dust transaction; it could help to state a minimum
* it doesn’t state what happens if I make a bid, then I send again from the same address (is it added to my bid or is it another one / is the input that matters or the address?); this should be cleared, else some may try and abuse this (with or without success, equally bad) -- LE / update: from following the game, only the inputs are counted as bids; somebody has tried to deposit a small amount from same address and it was not added to his max bid // this clearly needs to be stated
* deadline is not clear – is it the last block when I can send or it’s the last block when it has to be taken into account. That’s 6 blocks difference, if I understood it right.
* what is “confirmed block height”? - one more thing that would be needed into the documentation: a clear definition of terms (I understood later, you work with current actual block height–6 to address the 6 confirmations, still, I recommend documenting better).
* Since the closing times for a game were getting close to an end, I was afraid to bid (because of not 100% clear block rules); luckily somebody else's bid was about to get confirmed and I waited to bring the (too) generous time blocks increase. Then I've made my bid.

Second day and following the game...

* I am not sure how can somebody win this game against one or more determined opponents. Of course, it’s good for the bank, as fees, but maybe a hard limit could spice up the game. Maybe even a hard limit as time, not as block number (just imagine if we’d play for time… my first confirmation for my first deposit came after ~45 minutes )
* after the first counter-bets people are already complaining that each new bet makes the game too much longer and I agree, it kinds spoils the fun, maybe the blocks increase after each bid should be lowered?
* since we cannot realistically expect people bid really big amounts, maybe the 6 blocks confirmation is a bit of overkill… just saying…
* I think that my (first) bid was credited only after 7 confirmations, but maybe I didn’t read the (block) numbers right
* automatic refresh of the auction page could be nice, at least after a confirmation of a related deposit is detected.
* I think that even a smaller bid prolongs the game with 144 blocks. I strongly believe that this is a bug, not a feature.
* I've made some bids on another games too, I see no good reason bidding more and more and making game 32 end forever.

Third day

* Game 32 has ended, expectedly, I've lost 
* My other games ended and my strategy paid off, I've shared the win with somebody else instead of fighting for it. The coins soming in have unconfirmed parent, maybe this could be optimized.

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Chapter two: something between an actual review and conclusions

The website looks more a proof of concept than the actual game. The UI needs to be nicer. The documentation lacks clarity and also some things are missing (eg minimum amount to bid or what happens attempting to make smaller bids than the current max or when attempting to "add to a bid").

The gameplay is simple, but it can last forever, especially between determined players with big wallets. I guess that this is the aim, but I don't know if this will actually ever happen.
For now the game is somewhat boring and the lack of adrenalin may not make it appealing enough for the gamblers (and if it's so for small ones, the big ones won't come either). It's nice to try to win, but it can easily become a game of "who give up first or forgets to bid more". I advise fine tuning and decreasing the times in a way or another.

Also a determined person could just try to collect all the new games as long as there’s not too much interest from the potential players. Hence I think that there should not be so many new games or, I don't know, something to be done to limit the use of this game as some sort of (fat) faucet.

Unless some big change is done in the gameplay I fear that there won't be too many players willing to bid more than the house's prize, hence for now it looks like the house is always losing. Not good for the owner.


PS. I could add images and say what the others also said in the days while completing this, but imho that doesn't make much sense, so I stop here.

Try the sister site for this: Coinballer - An open-source multi-player Bitcoin gambling game.

It needs vanity. SatoshiA...........onion for instance.

After the game, one friend is rich and the others are broke How to lose your friends 101.

here too, there could always be the problem of a whale.
you organize yourself with other players (perhaps a multi-signature portfolio) and you are sure you have a large portfolio to play with.
but then, I wouldn't see the use-case in such a game.
...
I take a group of friends and we compete to see who has the most money to spend on a game? I don't know it's sound seriously boring to me ...

I believe Coinballer.net offers a similar experience to what you described. Coinballer is a game developed by the same creator as Satoshi Auction and shares many similar features, but it features private games with predefined opponents. It's gameplay is similar to Satoshi Auction, with the main difference being the ability to set up private games.

Coinballer - An open-source multi-player Bitcoin gambling game

Hey,
Would you mind sharing a screenshot of the error you're getting ? Becz Im able to access that section here without any issues.
Maybe try clearing your browser cookies and open the page again. If it doesnt help, try using it from tor browser.

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We also got an .onion link for satoshiauction.
ecs6fq5ykx3r2nelreevlxgx2qbqk5c7kofnti7fbs72zncnaa3rkrqd.onion

Actually, I had not thought about it. It could be a good solution.
Also, there is also another possibility, but it would be more complex, what about creating rooms where only people within a determinate range of holdings could access (0.001-0.01, for example).

To enter those rooms, one could provide a xpub as proof of holdings, those would be secret to other bidders or players. The only problem would be privacy, though, but I think it could me mitigated by using a secondary wallet or by mixing.

Why do I get "Internal Server Error" when choosing past auctions? I know there weren't any but it should at least redirect to an empty section instead of throwing an error.

I feel like this auction is not a game of skill, nor chance, but a game of endurance.

Situation 1: the prize is big and you want it, but OP also wants it. You check the game every day before going to bed and add a dust transaction if you're being outbid. Op does the same, but automatically using a script. Is there a way to win this? Probably not.

Situation 2: you play against another live player with no scripts or bots. You both keep doing the same thing outbidding each other for a month. Ultimately, it will come down to who gets into some real life problems first. Who gets sick, gets into a car accident, drunk, high, gets stuck at an airport, at work, at school and forgets to make the bid that day.

Yeah, I'm sure whales from all over the world will be super excited to just transfer their entire stash to a wallet controlled by some anonymous guy who previously posted fake and nonsensical stuff on his "about me" page. And the best he could offer to escrow was BTC0.05 (for all the rounds and games), which didn't even happen.


How's that escrow coming along, OP?

My first thought was this too but whales will have more pressure to place huge bets on game like this because there might be another whale with greater money that can eat his money too. I doubt that a whale will abuse this kind of game because the back fire of this game abuse to there money will be massive when another huge whale target them. This is an auction game which usually played with deep pocket money due to the nature of the game.

This game will be good for those whale crypto holders on social that wants to compete to each other. They can use this game to beat each other and proved who's the bigger whale. I believe those people is the main target of this game.

The solution to the abuse that you mention is to allow user to create a private room which only invited players can bid on the auction that they made. This way they can limit whales to enter the game.

I've seen this concept before, but for real items (say a new TV) and in that case the last bid for x minutes wins. In this case, the prize itself increases with every bid and that makes it very different.

As they say: "There's always a bigger fish"! The whale who wins a few small auctions by bidding 10 Bitcoin may win a few times, until a whale with 20 Bitcoin takes his 10 Bitcoin.

It's understandable that you wouldn't want to participate in a game that has the potential for abuse. However, it's important to note that both SatoshiAuction and Coinballer appear to be in the early stages of development. This means that they may still be in the process of addressing issues such as potential abuse and implementing safeguards to prevent it. Well, at least the dev is off to a good start by acknowledging the game's shortcomings and working with the community to make it better! Here's hoping he can follow through and implement some effective safeguards. After all, no one wants to play a game that causes more headaches than fun.

I didn't like this offer. When from the very beginning of the description of this game, it immediately becomes clear to everyone that there are many options for abuse. Well, for example, the fact that everyone doubts whether a certain whale will receive all the money in the end. And there are a number of complaints about the rules of the game and their absence.

Of course, with such a development of the game, there can be no question that BTT users will take such a project seriously and will actively participate.

I agree with what you have said.
It seems that the opinions and suggestions that you have given are quite good if they are really implemented by the manager.
At least with what you say, if it is indeed done by the management in the future, it will make a user with a small amount of money not worry and not afraid that the website is being abused by whales to make their own profit.
That way the website can be reached and used by anyone, even people with little money can still use it because not all crypto users have enough money.

I am afraid some whale could possibly abuse this system, in that case it would not make sense for a person with little money to even participate on this website.

Have you considered to add some random variable to this game, so it can feel more like a gambling experience ?
Perhaps adding some fairly provable multiplier to the bid could help.

Also, it would be helpful if you worked on the web design to make it more user friendly.

I think it may take a lot of efforts to understand this concept too @OP, however I have somehow figured out what it is. Let me share my personal opinion here and correct me where I'm wrong.

The statements I'll be taking are from your website @OP


This means that the bids are final, and nothing will be given back to the bidder in case he loses the auction. Got this point.


Ok, so the starting prize money is 10k satoshis, who pays these 10k sats?
@OP will you pay this for each auction out of your pocket?
What if the total bids are made by just 2-3 members and it doesn't even reach total 10k sats? Won't you lose money?

Let's take this game as an example, there is just one bidder and with just 300 sats, he can win 10k sats.

Why don't you set up a minimum bid column too, so that you can start the auction with a set minimum. And why are the bids transparent? Can't you hide the bids and keep it fair for everyone? If not, why don't you do this as 'lowest and unique bid wins the auction'?
That will give a boost to your game because this maximum bid kinda games were already played in the past and were not so successful.

When we will participate in this game, will the auction starter be allowed to decide the prize amount? Or it stays the same for all the future auctions?


So, aren't we cutting away our own head with an axe by bidding here when someone who wants the prize, comes and manipulates all the previous bids by his biggest bet? Even if the manipulator pushes the bid with just 1 satoshi ahead, he becomes a winner, won't he?


How can there be a tie when the bids are already known?
If not all, you are showing the maximum bid amount, so why would someone place an exact same bid like the maximum one? What's the point here?
And what is this fractional remainder? I mean, what units are counted as fractional remainder here? A few satoshis? uBTC, mBTC, what exactly?

Tbh I'm not so satisfied with the overall concept and I believe that you should make some serious changes before taking these games live as even with an escrow, this can still be manipulated for someone's personal winning agenda and will be unfair to those bidders who made earlier buds but lose due to that last minute bidder who sends a very big bid like (possibly) 0.01, 0.1 or even 1 BTC bid if the winning amount that the auction carries is huge.

The website is totally plain and very simple at its finest. I think I've seen this concept before but I can't remember the exact name of that website that has introduced this game as well.

I suggest that you should show the current and existing block so that potential bidders or betters will have an idea on which it is exactly and everyone will start to rush just to get that exact block as per the rules.

This idea is not new, we had those types of games almost since the beginning of bitcoin.



You can find some trusted escrow services in these thread, they are old but a lot of the listed members still provide such services, just check if they're still active:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/recommended-bitcointalk-escrow-services-2439910
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-bitcointalks-escrow-providers-ranking-blacklist-avoid-scam-276897

Alternatively you can just start a new topic in the Services section saying that you need an escrow and ask for recommendations.

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I would not recommend anyone to deposit any funds to the OPs game until they use a trusted escrow.

This is your test site and what does it have to do with coinballer.net to your project, or maybe these are two parallel projects since you have created another topic with the same auction scheme here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinballer-an-open-source-multi-player-bitcoin-gambling-game-5432506

Thank you for the feedback, I have removed the links to my profile page and removed the profile page from that URL.

I was in discussion with the guy who came up with the idea for the game. We have decided to make an 0.05 BTC escrow with a more trusted member.

If you have any recommendation about which trusted member might be amenable to hold the escrow, please advise.

You definitely don't sound like a native speaker. The "Jack Murray" page looks fake as hell and is unintentionally hilarious. It'll probably work better for you if you just take it off.


If you deposit sufficient funds in an escrow, then I guess all the fake personal info could be forgiven heh

Care to share which trusted member(s) are you in talks with? I don't think there's any reason to keep that a secret.

Thank you so much for your feedback about our red flags.

1 - There is no minimum bid increment. If you can get even a 1 satoshi bid into a block it will be accepted by the website.
2 - We are working on soliciting help from more senior members to gain trust. In the best setting, this will involve a serious escrow with a trusted member of the forum.
3 - Thank you for the feedback. For reference, I am a native English speaker who is 32 years of age. I have updated my personal profile website to remove the immature sounding paragraphs.
4 - I was never a senior developer at Facebook or Google. At Google I was an intern, and at Facebook I was there for 10 months between August 2014 and June 2015. You can call them to check this with them.
5 - I'm glad you could laugh at this. Thank you for the feedback and it has been removed from my personal profile website.

I hope in time we can change your opinion about users depositing their funds with us deserving to lose their funds.


Thank you for the feedback. In particular about this "lucky" factor. It has been noted and we will incorporate this feedback into our future decisions.



Thank you for the feedback, we will consider it. Rounds cannot be cancelled.


Thank you for the feedback, we will take this into consideration when we have more resources for development.

This website is one big red flag:

1 - no clear rules, i.e. regarding min bid increment
2 - no escrow - obviously no serious person would just send their bitcoin to an anonymous person with a newbie account. If you have good intentions - it's no-brainer to use an escrow at least until you build up some reputation on this forum.
3 - AI-generated image and personal description sounding like it was written by an English non-native speaking 10-year-old
4 - extremely basic design and poor wording (see point above) - you'd expect much more from someone claiming to be a former Google/Facebook developer
5 - "I am a proud polydrug user with experience in many classes of drugs. These days I stick to the law to the best of my ability." - LOL

Whoever deposits there - deserves to lose their funds.

the idea itself is something funny and a nice application of betting with blockchain but a whale could easily have a monopole on that game vanishing all players effort to get a result
I think it should be added some "lucky" factor not related only to bigger bets....
24 hours is a long time to place a bet... whales will have time and interest to place a bigger bets even I am not sure most of players will participate since it can be easy get "trapped" with higher and higher amount

I agree with you 144 blocks without bid can be very long, especially if two players don't want to lose the auction(the game) and have a very high bank roll each other. Besides that I don't understand what is the main difference with the other game from OP, the Coinballer https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinballer-an-open-source-multi-player-bitcoin-gambling-game-5432506
And there is no guarantee that the owner or one of his friend won't play and won't simply cancel the round if he's losing.

I just browse your website after reading your OP. The website is lack of clear explanation about the mechanics for this kind of auction game. The minimum bid increments should be determined to know what’s a valid bid or not. Also this additional rule on sniping is very important because this an auction.

I find the extra 144 blocks again as additional block each bid is too long. So an intense battle of bids will take this game forever. Why not set a target block number for the auction date and just set a smart contract that adds few blocks when bid is made 1 to 10 blocks before the deadline.

The bids reset the deadline for the auction to be 144 blocks after the bid is received. Therefore there cannot be any sniping.

I’m not concerned on the minimum bid with this kind of game because this game is an auction which means you just need to bid higher to the current winning bid. The prize pool is not that huge so the OP doesn’t need to be concerned on what will be the outcome.

What I’m concerned on this type game was a whale can monopolize the game by trapping all small time gamblers that making a bet. This is the reason why this kind of game is not that popular anymore. The OP itself can compete to all the bidders while gets 2% commission per bid.

What’s the rule for sniping bids?

Welcome to the forum, and if this is an auction, then I would like to formulate its rules more precisely, to begin with, what is the minimum auction bid and as I understand it, the last one who made a big bid wins judging by the course of the auction #7, which is actually indicated, there is simply no minimum bid.

https://satoshiauction.net/ is a simple auction website where 98% of each bid for the prize is added to the prize.

Each auction ends after 144 blocks have passed without a bid.

In the case of a tie, funds are distributed equally to the winning bidders and any fractional remainder is left with the host.

We hope you will enjoy the auctions.

Kind regards,
Jack Murray