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Topic: Satoshi might be mentally derranged (Read 7881 times)

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September 27, 2021, 10:41:32 AM
#92
Satoshi is a genius.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Throughout history, there have been many famous geniuses who were quite crazy.  Wink

Now it is easy after 15 years to criticize but I have a lot of respect for the man and what he has done.

The original post was made in 2013.
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CEO of Metaisland.gg and W.O.K Corp
September 26, 2021, 08:53:39 PM
#91
This is just a provocative post.

Satoshi is a genius. If he didn't disapeared, he would have been killed by the CIA.
Also BTC is still the most solid blockchain ever, so, he did the base alone, when no one had a clue about how to do it.

Now it is easy after 15 years to criticize but I have a lot of respect for the man and what he has done.
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September 26, 2021, 06:25:19 PM
#90
satoshi will smite you for this blasphemy Angry

I think you have a typo there, it should be "Will Smith".  Grin
newbie
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September 26, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
#89
satoshi will smite you for this blasphemy Angry
legendary
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September 25, 2021, 03:28:21 PM
#88
I'll probably release Satoshi's PMs and logged IPs addresses in ~8 years. This'd probably be of great historical interest. (Though he always used Tor, as far as I can tell.)



2021 edit: I changed my mind: I am not going to release Satoshi's PMs in 2021. See my post here.

F
newbie
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August 14, 2019, 08:15:41 AM
#87
Please don't be satoshi lols.
full member
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July 26, 2019, 10:10:35 AM
#86
Any normal person would have told people about the giant programming project to which he dedicated 2+ years of his life, and these people would have eventually blabbed, so Satoshi must have been unusual. I always pictured him as a shy but brilliant guy who doesn't normally deal with people. "I'm better with code than with words," he said. Maybe he left when he saw that Bitcoin's future had a lot more social problems than technical ones.

I don't believe that Satoshi was a group of people. I was here when he was active on the forum and I directly communicated with him a few times, and I got a distinct impression that he was one person.

Why not releasing these IPs so that we can make a Map of where he was at this time. I am really good at investigating the net, I am a php/mysql programmer since before 2000!
I cannot believe Satoshi always used Tor... nobody is perfect, and you are always doing mistakes.

Anyway if you think that these are all Tor, then why not releasing them? IP address will not give precise informations like the exact address where he was staying. But these could help to locate him globally, and specially prove that he was in the USA CA at the time some others who are claiming that they are Satoshi were in Australia - that's just an example.

Send them in private to me, and I will give you my feedback and what I find. Then you will decide if it is worth publishing it or not?! But why keeping them?
vip
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March 15, 2018, 06:17:15 AM
#85
I'll probably release Satoshi's PMs and logged IPs addresses in ~8 years. This'd probably be of great historical interest. (Though he always used Tor, as far as I can tell.)

Regularly used exit nodes come to mind.

What else comes to mind? I'm betting that some 3-LA (NSA, etc.) requested, then received everything related to SN on this forum long ago.

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April 19, 2013, 10:48:31 PM
#84
Yes, but did someone else implement it, or does Nick have the skills to make it happen?

It seems that he may have the skills, but no solid proof that he was the one to implement his idea.
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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 19, 2013, 10:41:55 PM
#83
Yes, but did someone else implement it, or does Nick have the skills to make it happen?
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hero member
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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 19, 2013, 02:52:38 AM
#81
If Satoshi(s) were publicly around right now, you all realize they would be considered enemies of the State, much like Assange?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar
+
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sundevil

You do the math.
member
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April 19, 2013, 12:25:29 AM
#80

EDIT: I think there is at least a hint of possiblity that DPR is actually Satoshi.

This actually makes a great deal of sense.

Once having released bitcoin into the wild, would Satoshi just leave it there?  Or would he nurture his baby?  As a rational first step for the adoption of something as bizarre as bitcoin, it's pretty obvious that SR is... well... pretty obvious.
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Poorer than I ought to be
April 19, 2013, 12:13:00 AM
#79
We are all Satoshi.

And Satoshi is all of us....

Seriously people - Satoshi still walks/posts among us in this forum under a different name or names.  Anyone who believes otherwise and has been around longer than a week or so is either delusional or extremely naive IMHO
sr. member
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In Hashrate We Trust!
April 18, 2013, 09:59:41 PM
#78
If Satoshi would get Nobel Prize, would it be in the field of Economics or Peace? Or maybe both? Smiley

The Nobel Peace Prize 2006 was awarded jointly to Muhammad Yunus and Grameen Bank "for their efforts to create economic and social development from below"
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2006/
full member
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Presale is live!
April 17, 2013, 08:08:42 PM
#77
Spoiler alert:  Kevin Spacey is Satoshi.
http://youtu.be/KnGo6Qm0Wt8
sr. member
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April 17, 2013, 07:57:38 PM
#76
If Satoshi(s) were publicly around right now, you all realize they would be considered enemies of the State, much like Assange?
legendary
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
April 17, 2013, 07:07:11 PM
#75
How about he cared more about this project than personal riches and glory, and is helping under a new name. Just a thought.

Could be!

Phenomenally brilliant people like Satoshi are often mentally unstable.  Out on the fringes of edge cases, one borders chaos and madness.   Undecided

For example, Van Gogh was so transcendently ingenious he went crazy.  Well, absinthe was involved too.  But the theory is, he was self-medicating.



legendary
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Death to enemies!
April 17, 2013, 06:29:58 PM
#74
I'll probably release Satoshi's PMs and logged IPs addresses in ~8 years. This'd probably be of great historical interest. (Though he always used Tor, as far as I can tell.)
It might happen sooner. With SQL injection and database dump. Or hacking one of computers where forum backups are stored.
newbie
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April 17, 2013, 06:22:50 PM
#73
I'll probably release Satoshi's PMs and logged IPs addresses in ~8 years. This'd probably be of great historical interest. (Though he always used Tor, as far as I can tell.)

nah dont think so
administrator
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April 17, 2013, 06:20:31 PM
#72
I'll probably release Satoshi's PMs and logged IPs addresses in ~8 years. This'd probably be of great historical interest. (Though he always used Tor, as far as I can tell.)



2021 edit: I changed my mind: I am not going to release Satoshi's PMs in 2021. See my post here.
legendary
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April 17, 2013, 06:15:43 PM
#71
regarding one or many: i think the logical thing would be one figurehead, one spokesperson, who does all the outward communication on forums and mailing lists. only way to keep it consistent. but determining how many may have worked together behind that figurehead? yea. good luck.

i would love to see it revealed someday though, when it's not a risk to their safety. like as a biography or something. gotta be a fascinating story.
legendary
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Death to enemies!
April 17, 2013, 06:08:48 PM
#70
Quote
That he (they) could see so far ahead in terms of a successful outcome to the Bitcoin experiment, so as to cover his (their) tracks so thoroughly from before the very first step.  The entire planet is trying to figure out his identity, yet his precautions resist being cracked.  Most of us would've slipped up somewhere, most likely talking about prelliminary ideas on mailing lists or forums or to friends or family while developing the concept, before grasping its significance or feeling the need to seriously assess political risk.
Paranoid people who understand how to be anonymous can do such things easily and routinely.
Quote
Any normal person would have told people about the giant programming project to which he dedicated 2+ years of his life, and these people would have eventually blabbed, so Satoshi must have been unusual.
I also don't speak with people in real life about computers. They don't understand a shit and only babble half-truths about what I said or done.
Quote
I always pictured him as a shy but brilliant guy who doesn't normally deal with people. "I'm better with code than with words," he said. Maybe he left when he saw that Bitcoin's future had a lot more social problems than technical ones.
It is possible but not the absolute and final truth.

Or maybe Satoshi was too busy making and selling physical bitcoins.
Quote
I could also imagine someone not caring about the money. Some people do honestly not care about money. That may be weird for some people to grasp, but if Satoshi is a single individual, perhaps the reward of seeing his invention spring to life is a reward enough in itself, and that he will never touch those bitcoins we think he owns.
It is true. But if he don't care about money he might barter them for few exabytes of SSD storage for his next experiment with computers. Having large storage cluster from SSDs does not take away the enjoyment of creating Bitcoin.
legendary
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Eadem mutata resurgo
April 17, 2013, 06:04:46 PM
#69
Quote
2. That he (they) could see so far ahead in terms of a successful outcome to the Bitcoin experiment, so as to cover his (their) tracks so thoroughly from before the very first step.  The entire planet is trying to figure out his identity, yet his precautions resist being cracked.  Most of us would've slipped up somewhere, most likely talking about prelliminary ideas on mailing lists or forums or to friends or family while developing the concept, before grasping its significance or feeling the need to seriously assess political risk.

In fact, the latter point makes me think it was a single individual.  These kinds of secrets and paranoia would be very hard to maintain as a group, especially when extended to friends and family of multiple individuals, who would undoubtedly take an interest and at least once ask "what's this new project you're working on which is taking up so much of your time?".

Or a "Above Top Secret" classified special psy-op team ... run with almost military precision and attention to detail, roll-out schedule, etc to create the "Satoshi" myth. Unlikely given the evidence but not impossible.
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April 17, 2013, 06:02:35 PM
#68
I could also imagine someone not caring about the money. Some people do honestly not care about money. That may be weird for some people to grasp, but if Satoshi is a single individual, perhaps the reward of seeing his invention spring to life is a reward enough in itself, and that he will never touch those bitcoins we think he owns.

He created bitcoin as an answer to attempt solving the problem with the world monetary systems, he was angry with how the current system works. And many reasons the current system is not good, is because of greed. Perhaps Satoshi is not a greedy person, he just wanted to contribute and create something better.

Now, most of you would probably take all that money and retire and move to some tropical island, but perhaps Satoshi is still teaching at a university, and living a rather quiet life. Since he obviously like intellectual challenges, I don't doubt that he's still exercising his mind.

Also, it might not be a single individual at all, perhaps a group.
newbie
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April 17, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
#67
Isn't it possible that he is working on something more important than bitcoin now?

Or that two years of being nagged for free BTC got to be tiresome?
hero member
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April 17, 2013, 01:22:47 PM
#66
Any normal person would have told people about the giant programming project to which he dedicated 2+ years of his life, and these people would have eventually blabbed, so Satoshi must have been unusual. I always pictured him as a shy but brilliant guy who doesn't normally deal with people. "I'm better with code than with words," he said. Maybe he left when he saw that Bitcoin's future had a lot more social problems than technical ones.

I don't believe that Satoshi was a group of people. I was here when he was active on the forum and I directly communicated with him a few times, and I got a distinct impression that he was one person.

Thanks for corroborating.  Even when reading his public output both here and on the various mailing lists, it seems very homgeneous, traces of multiple individuals would be obvious even if they were trying to be careful. 

This is similar to the Kennedy thing, the simplest explanation that goes with the facts is that there is only one gunman, and that's what makes his accomplishments especially significant. I hope he is happy with how things have turned out, and if not, then at least I hope he can buy himself an island and live out the rest of his days in peace with 100% privacy.

administrator
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April 17, 2013, 12:43:21 PM
#65
Any normal person would have told people about the giant programming project to which he dedicated 2+ years of his life, and these people would have eventually blabbed, so Satoshi must have been unusual. I always pictured him as a shy but brilliant guy who doesn't normally deal with people. "I'm better with code than with words," he said. Maybe he left when he saw that Bitcoin's future had a lot more social problems than technical ones.

I don't believe that Satoshi was a group of people. I was here when he was active on the forum and I directly communicated with him a few times, and I got a distinct impression that he was one person.
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April 17, 2013, 12:25:55 PM
#63
DPR = Dread Pirate Roberts = founder and main operator of Silk Road drug trafficking site that buys/sells things with BTC.

Nice article in Forbes about him.

I don't have nearly as many. He must be the richest person on Earth, then. Is there anyone else who publicly owns 100kBTC or more?

Lol.  Hard to be the richest person on earth if all you own are Bitcoins...even f you owned all of them and could sell each one at current trading prices Wink
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April 17, 2013, 12:25:09 PM
#62
Satoshi very likely crafted the identity to avoid the very kinds of attention that Gaven Andresen is having to deal with, but would have the added pressure of being "the guy who invented it all" and likely would have to take the brunt of a lot of verbal abuse from people who believed him to be the next incarnation of Satan or something. And so out of respect for the obvious talent of this individual to let go of any need to be a central figure, I offer heartfelt thanks for being strong enough to step out of the limelight and just allow Bitcoin to grow "in the wild" as it were, without having to be the one pumping it up into something it's not, or whatever.

Agree with you. 

I don't know what's more amazing:

1. That he (they?) knew enough about various fields (economics, p2p, software,crypto) to tie everything together brilliantly in an unprecedented stroke of insight with a working real-world implementation as a bonus.

2. That he (they) could see so far ahead in terms of a successful outcome to the Bitcoin experiment, so as to cover his (their) tracks so thoroughly from before the very first step.  The entire planet is trying to figure out his identity, yet his precautions resist being cracked.  Most of us would've slipped up somewhere, most likely talking about prelliminary ideas on mailing lists or forums or to friends or family while developing the concept, before grasping its significance or feeling the need to seriously assess political risk.

In fact, the latter point makes me think it was a single individual.  These kinds of secrets and paranoia would be very hard to maintain as a group, especially when extended to friends and family of multiple individuals, who would undoubtedly take an interest and at least once ask "what's this new project you're working on which is taking up so much of your time?".


legendary
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April 17, 2013, 11:35:48 AM
#61
Satoshi probably would never spend his coins as that may reveal his identity. I wouldn't be surprised if he destroyed the keys for all his early BTC so he wouldn't be tempted to use them some time later. He could still mine a lot of BTC for himself when number of miners significantly increased, but that would not include easily traceable coins from 2009.

imagine if bitcoins became truly mainstream and your right satoshi could never spend them so he gives them to his offspring. Imagine being his offspring and having your dad hand you 100 trillion dollars one day near the end of his life =P
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April 17, 2013, 11:27:26 AM
#60
Satoshi probably would never spend his coins as that may reveal his identity. I wouldn't be surprised if he destroyed the keys for all his early BTC so he wouldn't be tempted to use them some time later. He could still mine a lot of BTC for himself when number of miners significantly increased, but that would not include easily traceable coins from 2009.
legendary
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April 17, 2013, 11:09:34 AM
#59
While DPR probably can control those funds at will, it's not quite the same as saying they own those coins.
It's all well and good to say that possession doesn't equal ownership in some abstract normative sense, but what's the point if saying that has absolutely no relationship with what's actually happening in the real world?

The empirical facts, and the rules which are enforced by the Bitcoin protocol, are that DPR owns those coins. Most of them are coins he's promised to return to the people who gave them to him. He may or may not keep that promise.

It's the same situation with banks, bitcoin exchanges, web wallets, etc. When you give up possession of your bitcoins (dollars, euros, etc) you don't own them in any meaningful sense any more. You've given them away in exchange for a promise to give them back to you at some point in the future.

Promises can be broken. Better make sure what you're getting in return is worth the risk.
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No Maps for These Territories
April 17, 2013, 10:58:32 AM
#58
Not everyone cares that much about money and attention. Some people just like to be left alone and and work on interesting projects, some of which may improve the world. That doesn't make someone mentally deranged.
legendary
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April 17, 2013, 10:37:27 AM
#57
Are you aware that DPR owns 600,000 coins (and that's a very conservative estimate)?

Is that the Silkroad wallet amount? While DPR probably can control those funds at will, it's not quite the same as saying they own those coins. Those are Silkroad users' coins, right?
legendary
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April 17, 2013, 09:42:48 AM
#56
I think he intended to become rich. I think he intended to remain anonymous to make it easier for people to forget that advancing Bitcoin makes him richer. In fact, all future Bitcoin users are what speculators are banking on for profit. It's not that different from a Ponzi scheme...but it's not technically a Ponzi scheme (Or, it's no more a Ponzi scheme than fiat).


it's a ponzi scheme (but actually no it's not...anyway), except this time were have better sovereignty/currency so our ponzi scheme will out compete the FIAT ponzi scheme.
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April 17, 2013, 09:38:17 AM
#55
DPR = Dread Pirate Roberts = founder and main operator of Silk Road drug trafficking site that buys/sells things with BTC.

Nice article in Forbes about him.

I don't have nearly as many. He must be the richest person on Earth, then. Is there anyone else who publicly owns 100kBTC or more?

Wall observer thread regular "Loaded", 40K provable cold storage, more than 100K claimed.

About DPR: of course, since when is the world's largest public drug market owner not the richest person? Grin

EDIT: I think there is at least a hint of possiblity that DPR is actually Satoshi.
donator
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April 17, 2013, 08:48:32 AM
#54
DPR = Dread Pirate Roberts = founder and main operator of Silk Road drug trafficking site that buys/sells things with BTC.

Nice article in Forbes about him.

I don't have nearly as many. He must be the richest person on Earth, then. Is there anyone else who publicly owns 100kBTC or more?
hero member
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April 17, 2013, 07:44:40 AM
#53
I think this fucking nut might have just deleted all those early coins he mined in a fit of rage, seriously, starting to think this.  Most of those early blocks never moved. 

Maybe he got off to live as a munk in a mountain somewhere and doesn't know about bitcoins success!

newbie
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April 17, 2013, 07:27:13 AM
#52
DPR = Dread Pirate Roberts = founder and main operator of Silk Road drug trafficking site that buys/sells things with BTC.

Nice article in Forbes about him.
newbie
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April 17, 2013, 07:26:23 AM
#51
I want to point out something that doesn't seem to be occurring to anyone:

Not all profits are financial in nature. I've done random anonymous things which benefited people and had no expectation of being paid--I've even created a millionaire and live a very humble life. It's why I became a priest. But not all selfless people become priests, and not all priests are selfless people.... the point (before I digress too far) is that we all have our motivations for doing what we do, and starting a currency system which benefits the world is right up the alley of several people I know.

If Satoshi is an individual, I think he/she has earned privacy. Knowing who he/she is will not change Bitcoin, will not alter one bit what has happened so far, and will not create any new and wonderful system.

If Satoshi is a group, I think they are smart to avoid publicity.

In both cases, everyone expects there to be someone with a big ego, a major player, someone who has a lot to gain or lose with the publicity. And in truth, the best cryptographers in the world are people nobody knows the names of. So if this person is simply some highly-talented cryptographer who had never actually put anything together publicly, but in fact had the world's benefit at heart, I wholeheartedly wish him/her the best and reiterate that knowing this person's identity is not likely to be resolved any time soon.

Satoshi very likely crafted the identity to avoid the very kinds of attention that Gaven Andresen is having to deal with, but would have the added pressure of being "the guy who invented it all" and likely would have to take the brunt of a lot of verbal abuse from people who believed him to be the next incarnation of Satan or something. And so out of respect for the obvious talent of this individual to let go of any need to be a central figure, I offer heartfelt thanks for being strong enough to step out of the limelight and just allow Bitcoin to grow "in the wild" as it were, without having to be the one pumping it up into something it's not, or whatever.

Privacy should be observed.

And yes, we're kinda curious, but if we can't handle our curiosity, how can we possibly handle the anxiety of working with a new currency that every financial magazine is cursing out right now? Governments are trying to figure out ways to control it behind the scenes, since they really can't justify regulating something that has no controls on it. And that, perhaps is the biggest favor that Satoshi did to the world: robbing authorities of the ability to place controls, because the originator is simply anonymous in nature.

I believe that this is the very reason that I will never pry into Satoshi's identity. Not that I expect everyone to fall in line behind me, but I do hope that nobody ever finds out the real identity or identities.
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April 17, 2013, 07:11:22 AM
#50
Are you aware that DPR owns 600,000 coins (and that's a very conservative estimate)?

I don't know who is DPR?
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April 17, 2013, 07:00:28 AM
#49
It is not inconceivable that the original computer that Satoshi used as the 24/7 backbone of the Bitcoin network in 2009 and early 2010, also happened to mine 1 million coins. Sergio is talking about this.

Now, we know that the genesis block cannot be spent, because Satoshi thought it would be "unfair". Perhaps he thinks the same about these coins. Perhaps not.

Probably he is at this very moment thinking, which would be better for the universe:

- Send a message using those private keys, telling that he is about to never spend them. Possibly the coins would even be collectively banned after such a message. (Some communists have suggested this solution as a forced group decision without asking the owner of the coins.)
- Start spending them, essentially forming the largest bitcoin wealth & power center, far above the Winklevoss and the smaller fish. This comes with both privileges and responsibilities.
- Leave us in the state of confusion for some more time.


At the point when you possess the capability of generating something as valuable as this, you have a very different mindset towards money than that of the ones who want to have more of it, for the reason of getting a better life.

Are you aware that DPR owns 600,000 coins (and that's a very conservative estimate)?
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April 17, 2013, 06:09:20 AM
#48
It is not inconceivable that the original computer that Satoshi used as the 24/7 backbone of the Bitcoin network in 2009 and early 2010, also happened to mine 1 million coins. Sergio is talking about this.

Now, we know that the genesis block cannot be spent, because Satoshi thought it would be "unfair". Perhaps he thinks the same about these coins. Perhaps not.

Probably he is at this very moment thinking, which would be better for the universe:

- Send a message using those private keys, telling that he is about to never spend them. Possibly the coins would even be collectively banned after such a message. (Some communists have suggested this solution as a forced group decision without asking the owner of the coins.)
- Start spending them, essentially forming the largest bitcoin wealth & power center, far above the Winklevoss and the smaller fish. This comes with both privileges and responsibilities.
- Leave us in the state of confusion for some more time.


At the point when you possess the capability of generating something as valuable as this, you have a very different mindset towards money than that of the ones who want to have more of it, for the reason of getting a better life.
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Wat
April 17, 2013, 05:44:30 AM
#47
Maybe satoshi is just a brilliant mind like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr

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April 17, 2013, 04:14:10 AM
#46
Or maybe it was just a thought experiment for him? A nice toy project?
legendary
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Antifragile
April 17, 2013, 03:52:30 AM
#45
If Satoshi(s) were publicly around right now, you all realize they would be considered enemies of the State, much like Assange?

Though governments (or rather banks) are not publicly attacking bitcoin right now, if the person or persons behind Bitcoin were public, they wouldn't be safe and for many reasons. And you can all be certain Bitcoin is high on the watch list.

When Bitcoin starts to gain more acceptance they (Satoshi's) would well become public figures with power, sort of how like John Lennon of the Beatles did. And then when he started going against government/wars he was suddenly assassinated by a "crazy fan".

The best thing for Satoshi, is to remain silent. As another poster said, we are all basically Satoshi...

IMS
legendary
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April 17, 2013, 02:28:20 AM
#44
Quote
He even knows Satoshi's e-mail

Well anyone can see Satoshi's e-mail.  It used to be located at the bottom of the bitcoin.org page in 2009 and can be viewed with the webarchive tool here http://web.archive.org/web/20090303195936/http://bitcoin.org/

Now, whether or not he'll respond is another question  Roll Eyes
Speaking of that e-mail, I also found an old binary of bitcoin 1.3.0 which is from Jan 9 2009, I tried strings to see if I could extract some leftover data from his build environment, but the only thing that came up was MinGW 3.4.5.

Really, the only way to find his true identity, is if someone who has had replies via his e-mail to view the raw headers and his IP should be there, unless he used Tor.

He did use Tor. IMHO the only people who might be able to help crack this nut are GMX admins (German company I believe - no time to check this now).
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April 17, 2013, 01:56:54 AM
#43
Satoshi is a NSA group codename for a plot to explore the space of SHA2 partial collisions.
legendary
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Reverse engineer from time to time
April 17, 2013, 01:06:54 AM
#42
Quote
He even knows Satoshi's e-mail

Well anyone can see Satoshi's e-mail.  It used to be located at the bottom of the bitcoin.org page in 2009 and can be viewed with the webarchive tool here http://web.archive.org/web/20090303195936/http://bitcoin.org/

Now, whether or not he'll respond is another question  Roll Eyes
Speaking of that e-mail, I also found an old binary of bitcoin 1.3.0 which is from Jan 9 2009, I tried strings to see if I could extract some leftover data from his build environment, but the only thing that came up was MinGW 3.4.5.

Really, the only way to find his true identity, is if someone who has had replies via his e-mail to view the raw headers and his IP should be there, unless he used Tor.
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April 17, 2013, 01:05:54 AM
#41
I think he intended to become rich. I think he intended to remain anonymous to make it easier for people to forget that advancing Bitcoin makes him richer. In fact, all future Bitcoin users are what speculators are banking on for profit. It's not that different from a Ponzi scheme...but it's not technically a Ponzi scheme (Or, it's no more a Ponzi scheme than fiat).

Well, there's a big difference: Fiat currency has governments with big militaries to back it up. They decide who owns what physical property, and they decide what currency you owe your property taxes in. Therefore, there will be a huge demand (by the government) for fiat currency, and that demand is driven by an entity that has a crapload of guns to force you to pay it in its fiat currency. BTC has no such benefactor.
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April 17, 2013, 12:54:38 AM
#40
Quote
He even knows Satoshi's e-mail

Well anyone can see Satoshi's e-mail.  It used to be located at the bottom of the bitcoin.org page in 2009 and can be viewed with the webarchive tool here http://web.archive.org/web/20090303195936/http://bitcoin.org/

Now, whether or not he'll respond is another question  Roll Eyes
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April 16, 2013, 10:31:27 PM
#39
He read this post and would like to inform you he is watching you.
legendary
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April 16, 2013, 09:41:06 PM
#38
Satoshi actually deserves the Nobel Price of Economics since Bitcoin could potentially lead to a more efficient market economy.

Or make us all slaves. We still don't know what is going on with BTC.

+1 for satoshi as emperor of space time
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April 16, 2013, 09:36:19 PM
#37
Maybe he felt the community had forsaken him when they betrayed Bitcoin by putting on the map too soon.  It was like when Jesus walked in the Temple and saw all the gambling and swindling.  He blew his lid, and killed off the Satoshi identity.  Its like as if we crucified him.  He died for our crypto-sins.  He really is the Crypto-Jesus!
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April 16, 2013, 09:30:22 PM
#36
Another piece of evidence for his abnormal state of mind is his failure to patent his invention. Actually we don't know that, he may have filed a stealth patent and be waiting for Bitcoin to get really big before claiming license fees.
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April 16, 2013, 09:23:11 PM
#35
Given that he's a master of subterfuge how do you know he's not currently working on the source code now just under a different identity ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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April 16, 2013, 09:21:32 PM
#34
Gavin picking up the torch is actually just as bold a move. The fact that he is one of the early core developers, though not the inventor, makes little difference if there ever is crackdown on Bitcoin itself.
Gavin will not get into any legal trouble at all for being the lead dev.  All he's doing is publishing software.  Now if he's mining too and they somehow single him out for that, diff story.
Quote
So If Satoshi had the intent of gaining personally from Bitcoin big time, the whole motivation for creating Bitcoin in the first place, was a lie and he is nothing more than a con artist. If he ever spends them, history will question his original motives. His only option is to give them away as a gift!

Why not, why shouldn't he get stinking rich if this really takes off and betters humanity.  He created wealth and opportunity and deserves to share in it.

Why don't you consider him trying to do both in one stroke.  This is Satoshi we're talking about!  He saw a way to greatly better man, and in doing so created a huge fortune for himself.  Its not stinking rich when you've earned.  He'll be the richest man in the world, and honestly so!
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April 16, 2013, 09:12:44 PM
#33
(Satoshi) might have just deleted all those early coins he mined in a fit of rage

What would be wrong with that?
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In Hashrate We Trust!
April 16, 2013, 08:46:08 PM
#32
Satoshi actually deserves the Nobel Price of Economics since Bitcoin could potentially lead to a more efficient market economy.

Or make us all slaves. We still don't know what is going on with BTC.

If you use Central Bank fiat you are already a slave ... worse case scenario bitcoin makes it a question of "who's ya massa?".

Best case, it is a grand experiment in possible benefits to humanity from the efficiency of free markets.

If we create an exchange platform where everything can be traded, we wont need fiat in the long term - we could use gold vs bitcoin as a measure of Bitcoins true value.
Winner: Gold and Bitcoin, Loser: Paper money.
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Eadem mutata resurgo
April 16, 2013, 08:42:59 PM
#31
Satoshi actually deserves the Nobel Price of Economics since Bitcoin could potentially lead to a more efficient market economy.

Or make us all slaves. We still don't know what is going on with BTC.

If you use Central Bank fiat you are already a slave ... worse case scenario bitcoin makes it a question of "who's ya massa?".

Best case, it is a grand experiment in possible benefits to humanity from the efficiency of free markets.
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April 16, 2013, 08:37:14 PM
#30
Satoshi actually deserves the Nobel Price of Economics since Bitcoin could potentially lead to a more efficient market economy.

Or make us all slaves. We still don't know what is going on with BTC.
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In Hashrate We Trust!
April 16, 2013, 08:31:03 PM
#29
Satoshi actually deserves the Nobel Price of Economics since Bitcoin could potentially lead to a more efficient market economy.
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April 16, 2013, 08:17:28 PM
#28
Does it really matter if Satoshi is not mentally well? What difference does that make?

Just speculating.  I'm just amazed by the permanent departure.  We could use the guy right about now.

Personally, I don't think he/they went anywhere.  The figure of Satoshi may have left, but I can't imagine that they don't keep up on things, if not through this forum, through contact at least some of the current developers.  I can't imagine someone would create this and just walk away in some "best of luck to you, my children" moment.  There's too much invested in it, and I'm not talking just financially invested although that's obviously part of it, but that's been a much more recent event given the longer history of the experiment.

And hopefully they have taken at least some profits.  They deserve them.
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Death to enemies!
April 16, 2013, 08:15:57 PM
#27
Im curious why the early adaptors of Bitcoin accepted Satoshis original blockchain instead of creating a new blockchain where everyone could start to mine from the first coin? Or were the earliest adaptors friends of Satoshi?
Genesis block is hardcoded. Not everybody can change that in the source and recompile. Thomas Nasikioto could do that and it resulted in ixcoin. The same with Litecoin. In addition Litecoin changed hashing algo tho less known and potentially weaker Scrypt to appeal petential miners as well as implementing faster but less safe confirms as a marketing trick.
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April 16, 2013, 08:14:33 PM
#26
Im curious why the early adaptors of Bitcoin accepted Satoshis original blockchain instead of creating a new blockchain where everyone could start to mine from the first coin? Or were the earliest adaptors friends of Satoshi?

The first block can not be spent.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

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April 16, 2013, 08:04:35 PM
#25
Im curious why the early adaptors of Bitcoin accepted Satoshis original blockchain instead of creating a new blockchain where everyone could start to mine from the first coin? Or were the earliest adaptors friends of Satoshi?
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Death to enemies!
April 16, 2013, 08:00:01 PM
#24
May be he just a one of CIA agents, than he combine crypto hobby with his original job, plus create by government request a wonderful meme "Satoshi".
May be he just a one of CIA agents, than he combine crypto hobby with his original job, plus create by government request a wonderful meme "Satoshi".
Tinfoil hat on: Satoshi might be ratted out by Gavin. It is well known that Gavin accepted CIA money and offer to visit them. Accepting money from spy agency is exactly the same as picking up soap in prison shower. Probably Gavin have not read books how secret services operate all over world.
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April 16, 2013, 07:50:27 PM
#23
Isn't it possible that he is working on something more important than bitcoin now?

No.

ah well in that case
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April 16, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
#22
Isn't it possible that he is working on something more important than bitcoin now?

like headhunted to an agency?
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April 16, 2013, 07:41:10 PM
#21
Isn't it possible that he is working on something more important than bitcoin now?

No.
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April 16, 2013, 07:38:26 PM
#20
Isn't it possible that he is working on something more important than bitcoin now?
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Keep it Simple. Every Bit Matters.
April 16, 2013, 07:34:51 PM
#19
I've known exceptionally gifted programmers in one industry which I've dabbled in quiet a bit over the years (Games), who were not immune to also doing some exceptionally stupid stuff outside of their work life, which sometimes meant they went "missing". Also some of them just don't like to stick around after a project is finished, they prefer to work on something new. After a while maybe Satoshi felt he didn't need to risk sticking around if keeping his identity secret was that important to him.

Example:
When I say exceptionally gifted, I mean, programmed an entire game engine by himself in a matter of months, potentially rivalling some of the best in the industry, but got himself locked up in prison for 6-12 months on DUI but with no means to contact us (he was always abit of a hermit so didn't keep much on him) and with us not knowing how or what happened to him, we were left with code we barely understood without him or his completed documentation. He apparently accepted his sentence and left it at that.

By the time he got out, the project had moved on, taking 6+ months to figure out a small portion of his code of course, it essentially crashed the project without him. We moved on to other projects while every so often taking a poke to understand what little we could get to work.
For him he was a different person, took a very long time before he even got back into coding, prison was not kind to him.
A few years Later he actually did get the engine fully working, in just a few days, but it was abit out dated by then, he barely changed anything but he knew what he was doing with it to finish the final stages. It was still pretty impressive for by nearly 3 years old by then.

Just because he was clearly a gifted individual, doesn't mean he didn't also have his problems just like everyone else. Or maybe he just felt like their was nothing more for him to add here and is off doing something else under another alias.
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April 16, 2013, 07:14:18 PM
#18
We are all Satoshi.
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April 16, 2013, 07:09:42 PM
#17
The lessons learned from the legal aftermatch of the e-gold venture, should be enough to have him regret having started this several times along the path of Bitcoin evolution. I don't think that he possessed prophetic skills beyond average, knowing that Bitcoin would challenge most legal frameworks concerning money and transactions. However realizing that this could fall back on him at some point if it ever became a reality, his move was smart.

Gavin picking up the torch is actually just as bold a move. The fact that he is one of the early core developers, though not the inventor, makes little difference if there ever is crackdown on Bitcoin itself.

I'm convinced that Satoshi never intended to personally get stinking rich or had a vision of Bitcoin as a vehicle for speculation on the scale it's happening now. The block 0 embedded message suggests that this was an attempt to create the ultimate barter currency that could be used internationally and still be in the control of the many.

In that respect Bitcoin has failed big time and human nature as well!

As a Bitcoin user you have the choice of either saving or using them for the intended purpose! If people just stick to their coins, we are proving the Keynesians right. If Bitcoin is used as a store of value, centralization will be the result, that's why banks were invented in the first place.

Bitcoins core value is in it's use as a small payment system cheaper and faster than other methods and for making internet payments possible for people without a credit card. If you want to move millions around the world, go to your bank or use your gold Master Card and pay your fees!

Being a currency of limited supply, higher real life use for small transactions can not avoid driving the price of each Bitcoin to a higher level. All the 8 decimal places in the current system are there so we never run out of coins, not for you to become stinking rich.

So If Satoshi had the intent of gaining personally from Bitcoin big time, the whole motivation for creating Bitcoin in the first place, was a lie and he is nothing more than a con artist. If he ever spends them, history will question his original motives. His only option is to give them away as a gift!
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April 16, 2013, 07:08:43 PM
#16
Is it possible Satosi is actually an alter-ego for someone with severe multiple personality disorder?

Someone out there, probably a plumber or a farmer, who inexplicably finds himself on the web not knowing what he has been doing for the past 2 days when he snaps back to John Doe mode from cyber-Satoshi uber ninja mode.

Just think any one of you, in fact it is more likely if you are given to more paranoiac fantasies like OP, could actually have an unencrypted v0.1bitcoin wallet stashed away in random directory that your other half (satoshi) was using and it is worth $100 million (or more) ... better start trawling your sub-directories now for suspicious looking files from Jan 2009  Grin

Of course if the MPD was severe cyber-satoshi would probably have gone the whole hawg and backed it up on USB pen drive and hid it under your house in the crawl space or in the roof space somewhere ... should check there also if you think you might be harbouring a cyber-Satoshi alter ego within ... maybe a session at the hypnotherapist will tease him out?
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April 16, 2013, 06:35:47 PM
#15
I think he intended to become rich. I think he intended to remain anonymous to make it easier for people to forget that advancing Bitcoin makes him richer. In fact, all future Bitcoin users are what speculators are banking on for profit. It's not that different from a Ponzi scheme...but it's not technically a Ponzi scheme (Or, it's no more a Ponzi scheme than fiat).
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April 16, 2013, 06:32:01 PM
#14
Does it really matter if Satoshi is not mentally well? What difference does that make?

Just speculating.  I'm just amazed by the permanent departure.  We could use the guy right about now.
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Finding Satoshi
April 16, 2013, 06:25:29 PM
#13
Does it really matter if Satoshi is not mentally well? What difference does that make?
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Gerald Davis
April 16, 2013, 06:16:48 PM
#12
But he made a clear exit before disappearing.  So if he died shortly after its coincidental.

Most people don't plan on getting hit by a bus so yes it was implied it was coincidental.  Now when someone exception dies it is generally a big deal but in Satoshi case who would know.  I doubt he walked around wearing a "My name is Satoshi, and I invented Bitcoin" t-shirt.
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April 16, 2013, 06:15:15 PM
#11
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April 16, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
#10
4) People die.  Not even talking about CIA black team stuff.  Maybe bad luck he walked out in front of a bus and since nobody from his "real life" knew the connection to Bitcoin and nobody from Bitcoin world knew his real identity we will just see that as a founder who simply never communicates ... ever.

But he made a clear exit before disappearing.  So if he died shortly after its coincidental.

ONLY 30%.   Those first year coins are concentrated into only several dozen people's hands.  Some never thought it was going anywhere and deleted the wallet.  But that can't account for SO many unmoved coins.  

2.6 mil first year coins.   At least 600k mined by Satoshi, mostly in the middle 6 months when difficulty was anemic and a handful of computers would score half the blocks.  

2 mil mined by other early adopters, 500k deleted (25%) because they thought they wouldn't go anywhere.   That leaves maybe 1.5 mil that hung on.  Assume they as a group sold at least half in the various run -ups (750k).  That gets you to about 30%.   Not much room there for Satoshi to do much selling.

By early 2010 the difficulty started to shoot up, so his computers probably were only scoring a handful of blocks/day at most, and by middle to end of 2010, looks like only maybe one or two a week.  So most of his coins were made in the first year.
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April 16, 2013, 06:06:52 PM
#9
Roger is a crypto, tech and privacy guy. He's not a PR person, not a finance guy to fix exchanges, and not an economist - obviously form the macro design. So he can't help you with those problems.

He put up a rough draft of a privacy-oriented payment protocol, see it through beta launch, and moved on to other important projects like Tor. He chose to stay anonymous precisely because he knew what kind of freaks his design would initially attract, and being associated with this early cryptocurrency that anarchist and junkies love would affect other things, like getting grants from the US government to develop Tor.
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April 16, 2013, 06:03:32 PM
#8
May be he just a one of CIA agents, than he combine crypto hobby with his original job, plus create by government request a wonderful meme "Satoshi".
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April 16, 2013, 05:49:55 PM
#7
You are Satoshi just messing with us right?
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Gerald Davis
April 16, 2013, 05:49:41 PM
#6
1) Roughly 30% of the first year coins have moved.  Maybe he did sell a good chunk of his coins, enough to cover his expenses.  If he is trying to live below the radar I doubt he is looking to buy 200 ft super yachts and trips to space.

2) IMHO Satoshi is almost certainly a group of people.

3) How do you know "he" (as in one or more of the individuals that made up Satoshi) isn't here right now just working under his/her real name.

4) People die.  Not even talking about CIA black team stuff.  Maybe bad luck he walked out in front of a bus and since nobody from his "real life" knew the connection to Bitcoin and nobody from Bitcoin world knew his real identity we will just see that as a founder who simply never communicates ... ever.
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April 16, 2013, 05:41:39 PM
#5
Then slowly sell 50K on the way up to $250.  That would have been $10 mil+.  The market cap briefly touched $2.5 BILLION, there was room for $10 mil of sales.  And i think if 1,000 blocks worth of coinbase coins started to move, blockchain vigilantes would have posted about it.  

The dude is either dead, unbelievably concentrating his wealth into the success of the project, or he lost his coins.

It can't be that he's heavily invested without being drawn in to do SOMETHING to move the project along.  Why not sell $100K and fund the foundation better?  Why not come back and offer 100 BTC bounties for folks to push ahead on features, pruning, and performance?  

Dude is either dead, or had a meltdown and trashed his coins intentionally or accidentally.

Either way, you might as just as well consider the 'total supply goal' 20 mil, not 21 mil coins.
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April 16, 2013, 05:38:32 PM
#4
How about he cared more about this project than personal riches and glory, and is helping under a new name. Just a thought.
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Newbie
April 16, 2013, 05:34:29 PM
#3
You mean to tell me when the fucking thing got to $250 and priced his 1 mil coin stash at $250 mil, he didn't unload a few million bucks worth? 

Start selling 1 million coins and you get only 10 million USD max. The market is too small.
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Reverse engineer from time to time
April 16, 2013, 05:28:50 PM
#2
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April 16, 2013, 05:25:36 PM
#1
You know, Satoshi's mind about how these things should come together would provide great incites for the project here.
Challenges:
1) How to prune the blockchain correctly
2) What to do about centralized trading houses (ideas for a decentralize exchange)
3) Suggestions for improving Bitcoin PR

Who is this fucking guy to put so much time and effort into building something so well thought out and engineered to such detail, and then to fucking disappear and not even put up an occasional post with suggestions to improve the project?  I'm starting to think that Satoshi may have been mentally unstable.  Working anonymously ---> paranoid.  Not checking in ---> greatly disturbed that things went in a direction he didn't anticipate and so he goes 'fuck it!'.

I think this fucking nut might have just deleted all those early coins he mined in a fit of rage, seriously, starting to think this.  Most of those early blocks never moved.  Many of those early guys just didn't think anything would come of it and deleted the client & wallet.  But a lot of those early blocks GOT to be his.  Maybe he mined about 1 million early coins (thoughts about how much of a stake he had).   You mean to tell me when the fucking thing got to $250 and priced his 1 mil coin stash at $250 mil, he didn't unload a few million bucks worth? 

Seriously, how wealth could this guy have been for not wanting to sell a little and greatly up his lifestyle by selling say 5%.  It does not compute.  I think the guy just trashed his wallet file in anger/paranoia that there would be some kind of backlash when they had wikileaks accept BTC.  He put up that paranoid post about how it would attract all the wrong attention and then bailed.

Its either this or he suddenly died without leaving instructions to loved ones for taking procession of the coins.

Well that's my official Satoshi is fucked in the head theory!  Hope I didn't offend the Crypto-Jesus disciples too much there.
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