Topic: Satoshi Poker starting to go viral (Read 27497 times)
This thread is going places.
Hi guys, ladies,
As Lavafish isn't here and there are some things stated technically incorrect, as CEO of SatoshiPoker I would like to rectify some things in the original post.
Lavafish should have chosen some words more carefully. Ukyo is not managing this asset at all, he has just facilitated the preparations on bitfunder and guiding us to the IPO. It is however incorrect that he states that the asset didn't get final approval yet. We just don't feel right now it is the right moment to make the IPO as within 2 to 3 weeks we can IPO against a way better share price than we can now, and we have a responsability to our investors to find the best price possible. As I feel now Ukyo is not entirely happy about our company being listed there I will start the dialogue to see other options like a possible passthrough. In the end, in Holland securities regulations don't apply to bitcoin investment so it might be beneficial to take this load of his back or even not IPO'ing at all. I have no intention of having this discussion in public and will take that up with Ukyo personally.
About our company and servers: The company is officially listed as a Dutch BV where bitcoin poker is considered legal as long as the company doesn't exchange or hold fiat currency. We have already registered the .co domain as .org is linked more to the US than we previously assumed and within at most a week our servers will be in Holland; to avoid any misunderstandings about where our company is listed.
Some people question the valuation of our company. Our company valuation is based on 3 factors:
1. The current revenue the company produces
2. The current and potential growth
3. The future potential of an IPO on bitfunder
1. Current revenue
Our company is making profits already and does not have any debts. As opposed to loaning, we decided to sell some equity to some reputable private investors within the bitcoin community. We do consider our players base a comapany asset as this is creating our revenue and with over 50 people online during preak hours, we are not far behind taking over market leadership. As we look at the traffic report delivered by current market leader SealsWithClubs to Pokerscout.com (http://www.pokerscout.com/SiteDetail.aspx?site=SealswithClubs&ab=118452507) it is clearly visible that at our current growth we would need at most two weeks to catch up on them. To visualize what that would mean in terms of revenue can be seen in this forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/01/22/bitcoin-casinos-release-2012-earnings/.
2. Our current and potential growth
For two weeks in row we have quadripled in turnover and profits and considering the upcoming marketing there are no signs of slowing down our progress. Our 2+2 thread can launch any minute, we will have exclusive listing on pokeraffiliatelistings as only bitcoin pokersite and we have a massive amount of other advertisement in preparation. Besides that, Satoshi Poker has gone viral, getting mentioned in almost any poker news website online. Given this fact, we project we don't slow down anywhere soon; I think we might even further excellerate and claim marketleadership in at most 2 to 3 weeks. With bitcoin being the ultimate casino chip giving us the opportunity to operate within fenced markets where other poker sites can't, and being the first pokersite to have completely automated deposit and withdrawal functions we believe there is no reason why we should remain a pokersite for bitcoiners only. We aim to become a mainstream site. We are already developping systems in which customers from specific countries can make an instant deposit with their online banking system, which is popular in Europe at this point. In that way regular poker players who are less known with bitcoins can make a deposit in the way they are used to without us having to exchange or hold fiat currency of customers. We are making great daily progress and even signed 3 well known regular players from the current market leader as pro's for our website. We are the first bitcoin site who does not want to be seen as a shady construction but as a legit and integer operation.
3. Potential of a bitfunder IPO
When looking at the future potential of an IPO on bitfunder, which for now is the earliest exit point for our investors, we can only make a decent analysis by looking at previous IPO's and company valuations. Considering the sale of SatoshiDice, Satoshi Poker will probably be the only pseudo-gaming asset on bitfunder (we are not gaming by Dutch law), amongst some mining farms and a webshop. Considering the fact that Satoshi Dice had an IPO of over 35K BTC in 3 days, selling only 10% of their company; considering that BitPride, a webshop, sold less than 5% of their shares for over 400BTC, considering a financial service called Ziggap did the same for 500 BTC, I think it is rediculous to value a profitable organisation with the growth and potential which we show lower than, with all due respect, a financial service which cooked the books and a t-shirt website which sells some bitcoins on the side.
Personally I feel that none of the investors will ever agree to sell any of their shares at an IPO when growing the way we do; even when the moment is there that they can double or tripple their investment. With the speed at which we grow this would be foolish. As CEO and founder of Satoshi Poker I have already committed myself by stating that I will not remotely consider selling one single share at the IPO. The only reason we set up this contruction was to offer our earlier investors an early exit, getting their initial out with a decent ROI and let the remaining equity provide them a monthly dividend.
Considering all above, I believe that 8000BTC is an absolute undervaluation of our company. Thats all. Gotta run, I have a mission to lead.
As Lavafish isn't here and there are some things stated technically incorrect, as CEO of SatoshiPoker I would like to rectify some things in the original post.
Lavafish should have chosen some words more carefully. Ukyo is not managing this asset at all, he has just facilitated the preparations on bitfunder and guiding us to the IPO. It is however incorrect that he states that the asset didn't get final approval yet. We just don't feel right now it is the right moment to make the IPO as within 2 to 3 weeks we can IPO against a way better share price than we can now, and we have a responsability to our investors to find the best price possible. As I feel now Ukyo is not entirely happy about our company being listed there I will start the dialogue to see other options like a possible passthrough. In the end, in Holland securities regulations don't apply to bitcoin investment so it might be beneficial to take this load of his back or even not IPO'ing at all. I have no intention of having this discussion in public and will take that up with Ukyo personally.
About our company and servers: The company is officially listed as a Dutch BV where bitcoin poker is considered legal as long as the company doesn't exchange or hold fiat currency. We have already registered the .co domain as .org is linked more to the US than we previously assumed and within at most a week our servers will be in Holland; to avoid any misunderstandings about where our company is listed.
Some people question the valuation of our company. Our company valuation is based on 3 factors:
1. The current revenue the company produces
2. The current and potential growth
3. The future potential of an IPO on bitfunder
1. Current revenue
Our company is making profits already and does not have any debts. As opposed to loaning, we decided to sell some equity to some reputable private investors within the bitcoin community. We do consider our players base a comapany asset as this is creating our revenue and with over 50 people online during preak hours, we are not far behind taking over market leadership. As we look at the traffic report delivered by current market leader SealsWithClubs to Pokerscout.com (http://www.pokerscout.com/SiteDetail.aspx?site=SealswithClubs&ab=118452507) it is clearly visible that at our current growth we would need at most two weeks to catch up on them. To visualize what that would mean in terms of revenue can be seen in this forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/01/22/bitcoin-casinos-release-2012-earnings/.
2. Our current and potential growth
For two weeks in row we have quadripled in turnover and profits and considering the upcoming marketing there are no signs of slowing down our progress. Our 2+2 thread can launch any minute, we will have exclusive listing on pokeraffiliatelistings as only bitcoin pokersite and we have a massive amount of other advertisement in preparation. Besides that, Satoshi Poker has gone viral, getting mentioned in almost any poker news website online. Given this fact, we project we don't slow down anywhere soon; I think we might even further excellerate and claim marketleadership in at most 2 to 3 weeks. With bitcoin being the ultimate casino chip giving us the opportunity to operate within fenced markets where other poker sites can't, and being the first pokersite to have completely automated deposit and withdrawal functions we believe there is no reason why we should remain a pokersite for bitcoiners only. We aim to become a mainstream site. We are already developping systems in which customers from specific countries can make an instant deposit with their online banking system, which is popular in Europe at this point. In that way regular poker players who are less known with bitcoins can make a deposit in the way they are used to without us having to exchange or hold fiat currency of customers. We are making great daily progress and even signed 3 well known regular players from the current market leader as pro's for our website. We are the first bitcoin site who does not want to be seen as a shady construction but as a legit and integer operation.
3. Potential of a bitfunder IPO
When looking at the future potential of an IPO on bitfunder, which for now is the earliest exit point for our investors, we can only make a decent analysis by looking at previous IPO's and company valuations. Considering the sale of SatoshiDice, Satoshi Poker will probably be the only pseudo-gaming asset on bitfunder (we are not gaming by Dutch law), amongst some mining farms and a webshop. Considering the fact that Satoshi Dice had an IPO of over 35K BTC in 3 days, selling only 10% of their company; considering that BitPride, a webshop, sold less than 5% of their shares for over 400BTC, considering a financial service called Ziggap did the same for 500 BTC, I think it is rediculous to value a profitable organisation with the growth and potential which we show lower than, with all due respect, a financial service which cooked the books and a t-shirt website which sells some bitcoins on the side.
Personally I feel that none of the investors will ever agree to sell any of their shares at an IPO when growing the way we do; even when the moment is there that they can double or tripple their investment. With the speed at which we grow this would be foolish. As CEO and founder of Satoshi Poker I have already committed myself by stating that I will not remotely consider selling one single share at the IPO. The only reason we set up this contruction was to offer our earlier investors an early exit, getting their initial out with a decent ROI and let the remaining equity provide them a monthly dividend.
Considering all above, I believe that 8000BTC is an absolute undervaluation of our company. Thats all. Gotta run, I have a mission to lead.
To make things VERY clear.
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
Does this mean it's essentially a scam at this point?
It means that the original poster did not discuss with Ukyo prior to posting, which should have been done.
Aren't you the OP? (scratches head)
To make things VERY clear.
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
Does this mean it's essentially a scam at this point?
It means that the original poster did not discuss with Ukyo prior to posting, which should have been done.
At 12500 shares per BTC, SatoshiPoker would be valued at 8000 BTC. It's not sane to value a small Bitcoin poker startup that much, especially when you are in the US and uses a US host, rack space.
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
This was my first thought (regarding price)... valuing the company, as it stands, at over half a million doesn't make sense. It would have to be making at least 250k a year at this point for that to be viable (most would say even higher than that).
Am I missing something, where have they specified the cost per share / valuation of the company?
In the first post it says: "(For information, the most recent large purchase was 12,500 shares per BTC.)"
There are 100 million shares total (100m/12.5k=8000*1BTC=8000BTC).
Oh thanks, I missed that line.
8000 BTC valuation is pretty ridiculous at this point.
Quote
I have no idea who he is, and no one made any mentions to me about making any assertions that have been made.
My last suggestion to SatoshiPoker was to get a reasonable number of active online players and income before listing
My last suggestion to SatoshiPoker was to get a reasonable number of active online players and income before listing
Ahh. Perhaps we will wait and see what lavafish has to say.
I have no idea who he is, and no one made any mentions to me about making any assertions that have been made.
My last suggestion to SatoshiPoker was to get a reasonable number of active online players and income before listing.
My last suggestion to SatoshiPoker was to get a reasonable number of active online players and income before listing.
To make things VERY clear.
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
Does this mean it's essentially a scam at this point?
To make things VERY clear.
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
I am NOT managing the SatoshiPoker asset, or have any control in or over it.
I do not know who lavafish is, nor did I authorize or suggest he make any such a poor posting or move for the asset.
This asset also has not been given final approval either.
-Ukyo
At 12500 shares per BTC, SatoshiPoker would be valued at 8000 BTC. It's not sane to value a small Bitcoin poker startup that much, especially when you are in the US and uses a US host, rack space.
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
This was my first thought (regarding price)... valuing the company, as it stands, at over half a million doesn't make sense. It would have to be making at least 250k a year at this point for that to be viable (most would say even higher than that).
Am I missing something, where have they specified the cost per share / valuation of the company?
In the first post it says: "(For information, the most recent large purchase was 12,500 shares per BTC.)"
There are 100 million shares total (100m/12.5k=8000*1BTC=8000BTC).
At 12500 shares per BTC, SatoshiPoker would be valued at 8000 BTC. It's not sane to value a small Bitcoin poker startup that much, especially when you are in the US and uses a US host, rack space.
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
This was my first thought (regarding price)... valuing the company, as it stands, at over half a million doesn't make sense. It would have to be making at least 250k a year at this point for that to be viable (most would say even higher than that).
Am I missing something, where have they specified the cost per share / valuation of the company?
Hi lavafish,
If you are going to sell shares, you really do need to provide financial information about the company. Investors have absolutely no idea how much a share's fair value is if they don't know what the company's financials look like.
Please provide such info, I for one would like to consider this IPO.
If you are going to sell shares, you really do need to provide financial information about the company. Investors have absolutely no idea how much a share's fair value is if they don't know what the company's financials look like.
Please provide such info, I for one would like to consider this IPO.
ditto and please get John K. or other to verify what you have said in your OP.
At 12500 shares per BTC, SatoshiPoker would be valued at 8000 BTC. It's not sane to value a small Bitcoin poker startup that much, especially when you are in the US and uses a US host, rack space.
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
This was my first thought (regarding price)... valuing the company, as it stands, at over half a million doesn't make sense. It would have to be making at least 250k a year at this point for that to be viable (most would say even higher than that).
At 12500 shares per BTC, SatoshiPoker would be valued at 8000 BTC. It's not sane to value a small Bitcoin poker startup that much, especially when you are in the US and uses a US host, rack space.
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
I may be interested when to move out of the US (and for a much lower price)
Hi lavafish,
If you are going to sell shares, you really do need to provide financial information about the company. Investors have absolutely no idea how much a share's fair value is if they don't know what the company's financials look like.
Please provide such info, I for one would like to consider this IPO.
If you are going to sell shares, you really do need to provide financial information about the company. Investors have absolutely no idea how much a share's fair value is if they don't know what the company's financials look like.
Please provide such info, I for one would like to consider this IPO.
I stopped playing on SatoshiPoker after I realized I was sitting at a table of bots. I don't trust SatoshiPoker at all. I'd much rather invest in Sealswithclubs. If they were to ever try to raise funds to develop software that could compete on Pokerstars level, that would definitely be an IPO I would be interested in. This on the other hand, I am very weary of. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on ME.
Hi Deadgiveaway,
It is true that we had some issues with bots on our site in the past and as you can see here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2435750 we will do everything in our power to find and get rid of them. Satoshi Poker aims to provide a safe environment for the players to play in. We do not care about *receiving* income from cheaters, which is why we have been busy for the past several days to analyse all play at our site which resulted to banning over 30 people, including people that were regularly seen in our .22BTC and .55BTC buyin tournaments. We get praised for our proactiveness to fight any form of colluding/cheating all over our support thread at both grindabit and bitcointalk.
Please take a look at http://grindabit.discussioncommunity.com/post/Multi-accounts-and-collusion-thread-bounty-for-hunting-them-down-6437673?trail=15 and you will notice that we don't only fight bots, but also colluders which are getting in high positions of the seals leaderboards, you must know aki199 at seals...
I understand your position on this as I won't deny we had issues with bots, but as far as I know, they are gone and hopefully wont be back. Be aware that our options to fight these bots are more limited than regular pokersites, as we would be out of business tomorrow if our software started scanning for running processes or scanning the hard drive of our customer, where their bitcoin wallets are located.
Three regular grinders who were playing multiple hours per day on seals for a living have even chosen to come over to Satoshi Poker to help us get the traffic up as they feel we are the only one taking the security of our customers and the integrity of our games serious.
I understand you are not interested in investing in our company, but I felt I had to reply and set this record straight, because at this point Satoshi Poker is the only bitcoin poker room that can be trusted.
Thank you for your input, I will submit this to the SP admin immediately for comment.
I do know that Satoshi Poker has had some pro players come over recently because of the commitment anti-collusion/anti-cheating.
They listen and respond quickly to requests from players.
I do know that Satoshi Poker has had some pro players come over recently because of the commitment anti-collusion/anti-cheating.
They listen and respond quickly to requests from players.
I stopped playing on SatoshiPoker after I realized I was sitting at a table of bots. I don't trust SatoshiPoker at all. I'd much rather invest in Sealswithclubs. If they were to ever try to raise funds to develop software that could compete on Pokerstars level, that would definitely be an IPO I would be interested in. This on the other hand, I am very weary of. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on ME.
{This is a new bitcointalk account, created for the purpose of conducting a continuing valuation of the SatoshiPoker BitFunder asset.}
https://satoshipoker.org/
SatoshiPoker is now profitable, growing rapidly, and has a dedicated management and marketing team.
The site is starting to go viral in the Poker space.
See, for example,
http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/networks-and-rooms/new-bitcoin-poker-site-increases-marketing-efforts/
http://pokerfuse.com/sposts/494/
http://www.hochgepokert.com/2013/07/23/satoshi-poker-neuer-bitcoin-pokerroom-startet-durch/ (German language)
http://napoker.com/news/post/1349-Boykot_Venetian_poterpel_fiasko__a_na_rynok_vyshel_novyy_Bitcoin-rum963 (Russian language)
The BitFunder IPO may launch as early as next month (August). (Do not consider this certain unless & until you hear the official word from SP admin.)
See current list of owners here: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist (scroll down to Satoshi Poker)
As can be seen from the BitFunder asset list, there are 100,000,000 shares outstanding.
Also see: https://bitfunder.com/asset/SatoshiPoker (click on the "Profile" tab)
As can be seen, "Issuer may Increase Shares: No" Thus there will be no dilution from here forward.
https://satoshipoker.org/
SatoshiPoker is now profitable, growing rapidly, and has a dedicated management and marketing team.
The site is starting to go viral in the Poker space.
See, for example,
http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/networks-and-rooms/new-bitcoin-poker-site-increases-marketing-efforts/
http://pokerfuse.com/sposts/494/
http://www.hochgepokert.com/2013/07/23/satoshi-poker-neuer-bitcoin-pokerroom-startet-durch/ (German language)
http://napoker.com/news/post/1349-Boykot_Venetian_poterpel_fiasko__a_na_rynok_vyshel_novyy_Bitcoin-rum963 (Russian language)
The BitFunder IPO may launch as early as next month (August). (Do not consider this certain unless & until you hear the official word from SP admin.)
See current list of owners here: https://bitfunder.com/assetlist (scroll down to Satoshi Poker)
As can be seen from the BitFunder asset list, there are 100,000,000 shares outstanding.
Also see: https://bitfunder.com/asset/SatoshiPoker (click on the "Profile" tab)
As can be seen, "Issuer may Increase Shares: No" Thus there will be no dilution from here forward.
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