Saylor equivalents? | Bitcointalksearch.org

ginsan

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Quote from: slowlyslowly on September 18, 2022, 08:46:33 PM

I meet a few people keen on bitcoin as a concept but put off by some aspect eg do I have to mess around with wallets when I want to only put in less than say $1000.
Seems to me their options are limited Eg maybe they could by some shares in microstrategy and get a simliar end result. Not recently up with the play with etfs like the winklevosses proposed years ago but it seemed these things seem to die on the vine or at least are not available e to non USA citizens and your funds were locked in for several years?
Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

I don't know how difficult or impossible it is for people to buy BTC. create an exchange account such as Binance as the largest exchange today and you can deposit a small part of your money through some features that you find easier. buy BTC and withdraw to non-custodial wallet. That's what Saylor has been doing all this time.

el kaka22

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I do not understand why people are worried, like for example if they are willing to buy bitcoin via microstrategy (which is not even a hedgefund to begin with) then they could end up buying bitcoin at coinbase as well, legally you would be able to do either do both or neither, so if you buy bitcoin at coinbase, it's better.

I understand the fear to buy bitcoin at a risky place, you shouldn't buy it at any risky place at all but that doesn't change the fact that trusted places like binance or coinbase wouldn't be safe. If they are afraid of it, then they should wait until they are not, because alternatives are always worse and doesn't make sense to me.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: slowlyslowly on September 18, 2022, 08:46:33 PM

I meet a few people keen on bitcoin as a concept but put off by some aspect eg do I have to mess around with wallets when I want to only put in less than say $1000.
Seems to me their options are limited Eg maybe they could by some shares in microstrategy and get a simliar end result. Not recently up with the play with etfs like the winklevosses proposed years ago but it seemed these things seem to die on the vine or at least are not available e to non USA citizens and your funds were locked in for several years?
Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

If you want bitcoin then buy Bitcoin, as far as I know many exchange even allow people to buy $10 or even less amount so if we are talking about in hundreds then it can be done in any exchanges. And also there is no limitations to keep Bitcoin on any wallets, I mean non custodial wallet like electrum.

So the funds won't be locked and also you can keep as long as you want until you keep the private keys safely.

Lucius

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Quote from: thecodebear on September 21, 2022, 01:20:59 PM

I can see it being confusing for someone who doesn't have anyone to tell them about this and not sure what to look up for how to do this stuff (though it wouldn't take much googling to learn all this), but if someone has a friend to tell them how it works they should be set up in no time.

In addition to the general "what/how" confusion, it should also be taken into account that many people are confused by the fact that when they create an account on a CEX and see that there are at least two or more versions of Bitcoins, they buy a fork according to the logic of "this one is cheaper". Such a fork can often end up in another custodial wallet, which in most cases means wasted money.

Quote from: thecodebear on September 21, 2022, 01:20:59 PM

And buying actual Bitcoin and storing it oneself is infinitely more advisable than buying some bitcoin related investable product like Microstrategy stock or some ETF or whatever.

In general, I would also advise it to anyone who shows that they understand at least some basics when it comes to Bitcoin, but for some it is still safer to buy stocks or shares in a fund. Most people do not have enough determination or knowledge to be their own bank, and they do not understand the risk of using CEX as storage.

thecodebear

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Quote from: slowlyslowly on September 18, 2022, 08:46:33 PM

I meet a few people keen on bitcoin as a concept but put off by some aspect eg do I have to mess around with wallets when I want to only put in less than say $1000.
Seems to me their options are limited Eg maybe they could by some shares in microstrategy and get a simliar end result. Not recently up with the play with etfs like the winklevosses proposed years ago but it seemed these things seem to die on the vine or at least are not available e to non USA citizens and your funds were locked in for several years?
Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

I mean it is really easy to just sign up for an exchange and buy some Bitcoin. Then take a small amount of time to figure out that all you need to own the bitcoin yourself is to generate a private key and its public address, keep the private key safe and secure, and use the public key to send the Bitcoin from the exchange to your wallet.

I can see it being confusing for someone who doesn't have anyone to tell them about this and not sure what to look up for how to do this stuff (though it wouldn't take much googling to learn all this), but if someone has a friend to tell them how it works they should be set up in no time.

And buying actual Bitcoin and storing it oneself is infinitely more advisable than buying some bitcoin related investable product like Microstrategy stock or some ETF or whatever.

doomloop

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on September 19, 2022, 03:37:36 AM

If they're truly keen about Bitcoin as a concept, why are they put off by creating a wallet for it? If they really appreciate Bitcoin's concept then they should have understood that Bitcoin is about decentralization and that owning private keys.

Perhaps they're really not keen on Bitcoin as a concept but Bitcoin as an asset. Perhaps instead of getting convinced of the technology of Bitcoin, they're probably convinced of the price growth potential of Bitcoin.

It is their choice, they could invest in companies that are exposed to Bitcoin or that has Bitcoin in their balance sheets or they could simply buy Bitcoin and truly participate in its movement.

Maybe they think it's too hassle or hard to create a btc wallet but if they don't have one then how can they obtain a btc? Maybe they can store btc on some online sites like crypto exchange? But we know that it's pretty risky although I think many cex have the option to transfer your fund in some supported banks.

Maybe they prefer that way of receiving their profits through btc. They can buy or invest on some companies like MicroStrategy as they are known to also invest in btc but I think the income that we will be getting isn't going to be full anymore because I think you need to pay some fees when availing these kind of services, so it's always better to invest on our own.

m2017

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 19, 2022, 02:36:04 AM

Quote from: slowlyslowly on September 18, 2022, 08:46:33 PM

Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

The easiest entry point for newbies is to know how to buy bitcoin directly. Newbies can just go for a recommended noncustodial wallet, cold wallet for high amount and just buy and transfer bitcoin to such wallet and hold it there. Bitcoin was designed in a way you can have it and have full control over the ones you own as long as it is a private key wallet.

People always want to get a "magic wand" or "easy entry", instead of going down the path of learning and improving, go from beginner to expert. You can embark on this path by starting with active actions: both theoretical (to understand the basic issues of purchase and storage bitcoin), and practical (to put it into practice).

Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 19, 2022, 02:36:04 AM

Quote from: adaseb on September 18, 2022, 10:17:43 PM

You can use an exchange such as Binanace and just keep it on the exchange. Don't need a software or hardware wallet, its just for extra protection. If you keep it on an exchange just make sure you use 2FA and don't reuse passwords. As long as you don't click phishing links in email or anything suspicious you should be fine. Also enable whitelisting addresses also as an extra protection.

Exchange can be hacked. When you can have full control on a noncustodial wallet. Why saving coins on exchanges?

About 2FA, it is best to just use another device for it. I mean traders.

The exchanger can't only be hacked, but simply refuse to give out your money under any pretext, plausible or fictitious. Of course, this is the easiest way for newbies, because it removes all the issues of storage, security and responsibility, but at the same time deprives them of the most important advantage of bitcoin - freedom of action in the world of finance. The notorious "not your keys - not your money". Newbies should not start with simplification, sacrificing the most valuable thing that bitcoin has.

takuma sato

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I wouldn't touch Saylor's stock at all. If you want BTC, learn how to do it yourself. That's the whole point.
If you still don't want to do that, then I would suggest looking into getting a Swiss account in the BBVA bank. I've read some people are able to buy Bitcoin from there. It has to be specifically Swiss and you may need to meet some requirements to access this feature which probably is reserved for people that has more than a few hundreds to invest.

Other than that, I would wait for a proper ETF. Eventually Fidelity or someone big will be able to have a BTC ETF, but right now in a bear market you want to be ready to buy as soon as possible, to be able to DCA in, but have in mind we could still go as low as 10k or even lower before a mega capitulation that wipes this entire crypto clownmarket.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: slowlyslowly on September 18, 2022, 08:46:33 PM

Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

Everyone was a newbie once and in the early days using a wallet was a bit harder, because they were not deterministic, so you had to make sure that you have the file backed up. Now there are mnemonic seeds that make managing them easier, there are hardware wallets for those who are allergic to software. The only excuse to invest into Bitcoin via proxy is being 70+ old and incapable of learning new things. Otherwise there's no good reason to invite a middleman where it's not needed and make your investment less secure and less profitable due to extra fees.

Fundamentals Of

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If they're truly keen about Bitcoin as a concept, why are they put off by creating a wallet for it? If they really appreciate Bitcoin's concept then they should have understood that Bitcoin is about decentralization and that owning private keys.

Perhaps they're really not keen on Bitcoin as a concept but Bitcoin as an asset. Perhaps instead of getting convinced of the technology of Bitcoin, they're probably convinced of the price growth potential of Bitcoin.

It is their choice, they could invest in companies that are exposed to Bitcoin or that has Bitcoin in their balance sheets or they could simply buy Bitcoin and truly participate in its movement.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: slowlyslowly on September 18, 2022, 08:46:33 PM

Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

The easiest entry point for newbies is to know how to buy bitcoin directly. Newbies can just go for a recommended noncustodial wallet, cold wallet for high amount and just buy and transfer bitcoin to such wallet and hold it there. Bitcoin was designed in a way you can have it and have full control over the ones you own as long as it is a private key wallet.

Quote from: adaseb on September 18, 2022, 10:17:43 PM

You can use an exchange such as Binanace and just keep it on the exchange. Don't need a software or hardware wallet, its just for extra protection. If you keep it on an exchange just make sure you use 2FA and don't reuse passwords. As long as you don't click phishing links in email or anything suspicious you should be fine. Also enable whitelisting addresses also as an extra protection.

Exchange can be hacked. When you can have full control on a noncustodial wallet. Why saving coins on exchanges?

About 2FA, it is best to just use another device for it. I mean traders.

Don Pedro Dinero

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The best thing to do is to buy bitcoin directly. MSTR shares have added leverage risk, but another option would be to buy GBTC. There is a mega-thread about it:

Everything you wanted to know about Grayscale BTC Trust but were afraid to ask!

But it will always be better to buy bitcoin than these products, which we could call derivatives, as they base their value on the bitcoin purchased by the entity.

adaseb

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What country are you from? There might be a Bitcoin ETF or equivalent and you can buy that with your stock trading platform.

You can use an exchange such as Binanace and just keep it on the exchange. Don't need a software or hardware wallet, its just for extra protection. If you keep it on an exchange just make sure you use 2FA and don't reuse passwords. As long as you don't click phishing links in email or anything suspicious you should be fine. Also enable whitelisting addresses also as an extra protection.

mk4

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Probably just buy bitcoin directly? You really can't learn how to properly use it unless you've actually tried using it to transact and storing it through a non-custodial wallet. I don't even recommend buying MSTR even though it's pretty much almost like a pseudo-ETF; because who would know what Saylor and the new CEO would do.

But if you really want to go with stocks, we have the likes of $COIN and some mining stocks. Obviously expect the correlation to be shaky.

slowlyslowly

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I meet a few people keen on bitcoin as a concept but put off by some aspect eg do I have to mess around with wallets when I want to only put in less than say $1000.
Seems to me their options are limited Eg maybe they could by some shares in microstrategy and get a simliar end result. Not recently up with the play with etfs like the winklevosses proposed years ago but it seemed these things seem to die on the vine or at least are not available e to non USA citizens and your funds were locked in for several years?
Any suggestions about “easy entry” things for newbies?

Topic: Saylor equivalents? (Read 174 times)