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Topic: [scam tag request] user unclescrooge founder and operator of bitfinex.com (Read 18275 times)

legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
karma is a bitch   Grin

I don't know... is it?  I'm very worried about the entire crypto space... it seems like there might be some legitimacy behind this Tether bullshit... digging through old posts like this one... not good.

That was more than a year ago..

Ente
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
karma is a bitch   Grin

I don't know... is it?  I'm very worried about the entire crypto space... it seems like there might be some legitimacy behind this Tether bullshit... digging through old posts like this one... not good.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
karma is a bitch   Grin
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Hello myself.

May be you can explain your problem for the spanish comunity.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246416.new#new

Saludos.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
If you have to ask you could probably benefit from the education that comes with searching on your own.

No its because of the rating limiting on the forum search and the fact that I refuse to use Google and let them harvest my data. I do my internet searches using Yacy P2P search, admittedly the search algroithms aren't as good as Google's though so this time I have to forfeit the NSA my data.

Who said anything about using a search engine. Just read for a while.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Read up on some bitcoin history, around 2010.

I thought she was talking about something non-bitcoin related.

Link please? Now I am curious.

If you have to ask you could probably benefit from the education that comes with searching on your own.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Fail that, I recently met a guy from Bulgaria, his name is Momchil. You know him?

WTF does that have to do with anything? This company that pays you to make them look good is a scammer, simple.

Read up on some bitcoin history, around 2010.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I'm from Bulgaria but I escaped, so I know all about your country and the kind of financial businesses that come from it.

They say that the average domestic goat regards its herder as another goat, of about the same age. What with being from Bulgaria and all maybe you're in a position to shed some light on this topic?

Fail that, I recently met a guy from Bulgaria, his name is Momchil. You know him?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
It's funny how you say I'm such a bad person because of what I do for work when we essentially both do the same thing, you get paid to make MPEX/MPOE look good on the forums, I get paid to make your competitors look good on the forums.

No, you have it exactly backwards. You don't get paid. I do. You dick around trying to "make whatever scam look good". I stick around telling people the truth, with particular inclination for the truth they don't particularly wish to hear. And they complain about it. Specifically, the scammers and scammers-to-be complain that I'm not doing a very good job of what you folks imagine the job is.

You're wrong, on absolutely all scores, starting with what PR means, going through what business and entrepreneurship are and ending in your own estimation of yourself and others. And by wrong I mean exactly backwards.

PS. You're not "part of the competition", for anything whatsoever. To compete you have to do something. You don't do anything.

but anyways, no, you Romanian's wouldn't know anything about them, you've probably never seen one before.

I'm sure they've seen your mom, and since we're on it: plural and possessive work differently in English (two girls, the girl's shoe), and I'm from California.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
Also, just to note in about a month (5th July approx) I will be sending you some interesting information that you probably already know about InstaWallet but have yet to make public. No point telling everyone now when I can't show any proof.
Sure, you'll end up in the Roger Wehbe folder if you're lucky.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
The only people you "schedule meetings" with are prostitutes, if they take food stamps that day, and cops, if they feel like beating up on some schmuck while passing by your reputable business space station/bus stop.

{random blurb}

At least you seem gifted with imagination.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Once again, it might be bad business practices, but is it really elevated to the point of a scam that deserves a scammer tag?  Even if all the things said here were true, no one lost any money in the deal and while the company took a risk

You are either mixing yourself in discussing topics significantly outside of your intellectual purview out of a naive but ultimately dangerous conviction that simply being born out of woman qualifies you to form an opinion on any topic and to speak in any circumstance, or else you're a shill. Now which one is it?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
I see that a bit different because we are still mixing up two things here.

1) According to all things posted here "myself" was an employee. The agreement via email / contract dont back his demand for being a real partner and not only an employee payed by a percentage of the profit. Im sorry for you "myself" but emplyees can be fired. Check your emails, maybe you find something he said which imply that you are a real partner.

2) The second point is the more concerning one according to my opinion. We already cleared the 150k covered by the funds of a personal account, but what about "Devasini [who] was credited one million dollars, money that he didn't have deposited in his account"? Giving out funds of this amount are a huge liability and are possible fraud (as long as you have no real good explanation).

Once again, it might be bad business practices, but is it really elevated to the point of a scam that deserves a scammer tag?  Even if all the things said here were true, no one lost any money in the deal and while the company took a risk, it seemed to have done so to protect it's assets and those of it's clients.  I think the request for this to be closed makes sense because even if everything said against the company were true, it still doesn't seem like anyone lost anything at all?  At which point the scam tag request would be denied.

Just my opinion though.  This whole damn thing has gotten to be very convoluted due mostly to the fact that the OP seems to be confounding 2 things into one.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I've scheduled a meeting with my financial advisor tomorrow and will be letting them know my intentions to invest in illegally traded stocks on an unregulated stock exchange, who's office is, again, a middle class dude's house in Romania. Seems legit.

The only people you "schedule meetings" with are prostitutes, if they take food stamps that day, and cops, if they feel like beating up on some schmuck while passing by your reputable business space station/bus stop.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Because it doesn't run on exploit-riddled ruby-on-rails
You must be new here

What gave it away? Was it perhaps

How dare you call me a scammer, you spread lies for MPEX, the biggest Bitcoin ponzi scheme who's office is just a house in romania.

I run a much more reputable business than you, and you even dare to call me a scammer...

Everyone knows REAL offices of REALLY more reputable businesses than yours are run off boats and satellites. And maff.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
Because it doesn't run on exploit-riddled ruby-on-rails
You must be new here
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
Huh?
Bitfinex runs on RoR... in some cases they even gave full error logs (I might still have one lying around... "/home/raph/www" rings a bell?) on 500 errors.

I just hope they keep their software patched up to the latest as there are again some exploits floating around in the wild. This has nothing to do with the remaining scam accusations here (1 million USD credited out of thin air and cutting out a share holder(?) by maybe(?) founding another company)
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I see that a bit different because we are still mixing up two things here.

1) According to all things posted here "myself" was an employee.

Not at all. He's posted enough to make it clear he was an early round, low valuation investor who is now seeing his stake converted by "management" (ie, the thief with the logins) for the benefit of later stage investors.

The exact method employed in the tortious transfer of interest in Bitcoin Magazine a few months back. Ample reason to go to jail in most any part of the civilised world for that matter.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1007
I find it funny that someone like myself got 10% of profits in the first place. Also the talk of "oh so rich" investors (who is this "Mr. Tang"?) seems a bit weird to me, maybe I come from a different background, but even though a loss of 50k USD is a lot, it is not that much for a financial business startup with a business model that has very much known risks where one can get burned. You were warned over and over about getting Goxxed

I personally pulled partly out of Bitfinex regardless of these accusations, simply because interests in the last month were not covering the risks that I perceive at all, so there's no real point in putting my money in danger for low returns.

Building on Bitcoinica's code in the first place was probably not the smartest move, I'm still hoping that soon(TM) there will finally be an open-source trading platform with leverage, be it on Ripple, with their own IOUs, with OpenTransactions or however else. As regulatory hurdles are anyways the main issue, and not the actual trading engine having competitors setting up dozens of their own exchanges is very unlikely anyways...

I got off-topic though, so back to these accusations:
As Eisenhower34 said:
* There's need for proof that myself even holds 25% of bitfinex limited and it would be nice to know who holds which parts of bitfinex technology limited
* What's up exactly with this 1 million USD (an amount that should be quite hard to hide in logs etc.), where's proof for that?
I would also add:
* An audit from a third party would be great to have, ideally with a transparency initiative - there was a thread about which numbers should be published how and where, so far Bitfinex is still quite a black hole and the "public trades" page is not enough to properly audit the page externally or create a ledger (amounts cut off, only 100 entries available, no mention of platform or fee...)

If there was a complete trading history released (with good + proper data of the trades) it would be possible to massage this into a format readable by ledger-cli for example and calculate how many USD, BTC and LTC the platform should have at risk at any point of time. Then all that needs to be done is to provide evidence (e.g. screenshots, bank statments, auditor statements, exchange balances) that these funds are really existing and everything is fine.

I'd like to remind Raphael though of a few things:
Being a "rich rich rich" insurance owner in Hong Kong does not make somebody a useful partner. If at all it would make me suspicious how this person can get so rich when he invests in these high-risk ventures.
Having a few things to say on a forum or suggestions via mail does not make someone a useful advisor. (You're free to send me bitcoins though for my suggestions/advice... Tongue)
Someone who just pulls a CEO + investors in a month(!?) out off his hat that understand both Bitcoin and margin trading while himself coming from a semiconductor background is in my eyes just too good to be true.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
This thread is lulz, wonder why the Bitfinex source Bitcoinica source hasn't been re-leaked already.

Because by now it has evolved into a singularity (torus shaped) and a bunch of golums are circling it chanting "my preciousssss, my preciousssss".

Particularly amusing is the blogpost of the Raphael muppet. Oh he's worked so very hard (so what if stupidly?!) and his personal life is a mess so please can he at least have this?

The answer, of course, is no. That's not how life works. This isn't the artificially constructed environment known as school where if you whine and appeal to emotion enough the teacher might give you a passing grade.

Go back to high school Raphy, that's where your delusions of what professional means aren't out of place.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
This thread is lulz, wonder why the Bitfinex source Bitcoinica source hasn't been re-leaked already.
legendary
Activity: 906
Merit: 1002
25% of bitfinex limited
I already said above, you didnt post any evidence to proof that so far.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
I see that a bit different because we are still mixing up two things here.

1) According to all things posted here "myself" was an employee. The agreement via email / contract dont back his demand for being a real partner and not only an employee payed by a percentage of the profit. Im sorry for you "myself" but emplyees can be fired. Check your emails, maybe you find something he said which imply that you are a real partner.


then why was bitfinex technology limited funded ?  ofc on documents I have 25% of bitfinex limited and R have 75% and ofc i am not going to sing any papers regarding bitfinex limited
numbers and stuff posted here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2412313
legendary
Activity: 906
Merit: 1002
I see that a bit different because we are still mixing up two things here.

1) According to all things posted here "myself" was an employee. The agreement via email / contract dont back his demand for being a real partner and not only an employee payed by a percentage of the profit. Im sorry for you "myself" but emplyees can be fired. Check your emails, maybe you find something he said which imply that you are a real partner.

2) The second point is the more concerning one according to my opinion. We already cleared the 150k covered by the funds of a personal account, but what about "Devasini [who] was credited one million dollars, money that he didn't have deposited in his account"? Giving out funds of this amount are a huge liability and are possible fraud (as long as you have no real good explanation).
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
I propose to the moderators to close this thread because no one was actually scammed. This is a dispute between partners and has nothing to do with the general public. No one on Bitfinex has actually lost any money, so by definition this isn't a scam.

As long as withdrawals on Bitfinex continue to function perfectly there is no scam.

I concur, based on the limited information provided here, I'm of the same opinion that no one was scammed and it seems like an internal dispute between owners and/or employees.
last time i did check taking customer money with out their permission to be on the market was not legal (you can google search MF global) no matter what excuse you put 

Bitcoins5411 I think has a good point.

I guess I'm not exactly sure what's going on with this taking customer money thing, but it seems like no one was out anything by deception which is an integral part of a scam.  Having an unsecured loan may be bad business practice, but unless the company was actually maliciously trying to make money by cheating it's customers, it's not really a scam.  As I have said before, the "scam" accusation with regards to the customer account handling is marginal at best.  There is definitely no scam with regards to myself and the ownership's dispute--it appears to be an internal shareholder and/or employer dispute.

If you put your investor's money in a bank with no FDIC insurance, it's a bad business practice, but it's not a scam.  If you did the same but told your investors the money was protected, it's lying to them, but still not really a scam.  If you tell investors their money is in an FDIC insured bank, but it's actually gone to buy you a corvette, now it's a scam.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
6) After a few days we joined forces (end of March) the price started to raise a lot and it accelerated further to hit 266 on the 9th of April.
With the price grew our concern as we started to fear a crash.
At the beginning of April we therefore put in place an account, under the name of mr Tang ( the Hong Kong insurer mentioned above) in order to start providing insurance for the loans. This account would have the ability to have a liability toward Bitfinex for up to a previously and formally agreed amount.
But we were not quick enough to implement this.
We all recall what happened, make a long story short the price started to collapse and MtGox suspended trading.
As MtGox was our main (and only third party platform at that time, as Bitstamp didn't join in yet) liquidity provider, we were left with a bunch of leveraged positions that needed to be liquidated but couldn't as MtGox was down.
Me and Giancarlo spent long hours on the phone during that night (I will never forget it) and he was really helpful in the situation. He said he and the investors team were going to cover for any losses that this crash would have caused. He said we should not make lenders lose any money and that this move (taking this loss) would have paid back several times in the future.
But there was no time to physically transfer the funds required before Gox resumed operations, so I allowed mr. Tang ( the insurance shareholder I mentioned before whose real name is not mr. Tang by the way, we care about the privacy of our customers) to go 150k in red for a few hours.
All the losses originated that night went into his account and were promptly covered by the shareholders after that.
To put things straight this wasn't representing a risk for the company as Giancarlo gave me his personal word that these 150k would have been transferred the day after AND he personally had liquidity on his personal account in Bitfinex for way more than the above mentioned 150k and this was the collateral of Mr. Tang liabilities.
And so we did, after Gox resumed operations we liquidated the leveraged positions and ended up making a loss of "only" 50,000 usd.
None of our lenders lost one cent, and this was possible only because we had a strong financial backup.
I can't think of a lot of people that would have done the same in our shoes.
For clarity Mr. Tang later provided the funds that are now used to give insurance on the loans of our lenders.
Please notice that we have always been very clear and transparent about what happened during these days, as this announcement published the day after the big crash shows:

https://community.bitfinex.com/conte...-night-Tsunami
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I propose to the moderators to close this thread because no one was actually scammed. This is a dispute between partners and has nothing to do with the general public. No one on Bitfinex has actually lost any money, so by definition this isn't a scam.

As long as withdrawals on Bitfinex continue to function perfectly there is no scam.

On the contrary: scammers outing each other makes for a great service to the community.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
I propose to the moderators to close this thread because no one was actually scammed. This is a dispute between partners and has nothing to do with the general public. No one on Bitfinex has actually lost any money, so by definition this isn't a scam.

As long as withdrawals on Bitfinex continue to function perfectly there is no scam.

I concur, based on the limited information provided here, I'm of the same opinion that no one was scammed and it seems like an internal dispute between owners and/or employees.
last time i did check taking customer money with out their permission to be on the market was not legal (you can google search MF global) no matter what excuse you put 
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
I propose to the moderators to close this thread because no one was actually scammed. This is a dispute between partners and has nothing to do with the general public. No one on Bitfinex has actually lost any money, so by definition this isn't a scam.

As long as withdrawals on Bitfinex continue to function perfectly there is no scam.

I concur, based on the limited information provided here, I'm of the same opinion that no one was scammed and it seems like an internal dispute between owners and/or employees.
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
I propose to the moderators to close this thread because no one was actually scammed. This is a dispute between partners and has nothing to do with the general public. No one on Bitfinex has actually lost any money, so by definition this isn't a scam.

As long as withdrawals on Bitfinex continue to function perfectly there is no scam.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
Based on his "contract" Myself should have been sharing in the losses - in that the losses should have been reducing the profits.  All you need to do is to set a reporting period to be a quarter or a year (instead of monthly) so that you have enough profits to cover your losses.  So long as the company is profitable over that time period it will work.

So that part about not taking losses seems full of holes.

u can read my email here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2363350

no one take loses because the operator say so with no audit with nothing even more after allowing other to be on the market if they did not deposit the money before hand
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)

Because the profits are a fixed size pie and the pieces have to be moved around.

In my example above, It's me and 8 employees.  If a 9th employee comes in, then the shares of profit sharing will get diluted.  None of us are shareholders in the company, but we do get profit sharing as part of our compensation package.


But regardless of this, and whether or not you think you are a shareholder or not, what is the resolution you are looking for?

(And is the other party even still responding to this thread?  If not, then anything we talk about is irrelevant at this point.)
man i understand that, i posted that because R said i was never a share holder
legendary
Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023
Based on his "contract" Myself should have been sharing in the losses - in that the losses should have been reducing the profits.  All you need to do is to set a reporting period to be a quarter or a year (instead of monthly) so that you have enough profits to cover your losses.  So long as the company is profitable over that time period it will work.

So that part about not taking losses seems full of holes.

--

BFX executes trades on MtGox, Bitstamp, or its own exchange based on short/long positions. People aren't betting against the house.  There was an exception to this for a couple days in April when the MtGox connection was lost -- are you referring to that? 
If not, then how is this bucket shop activity?  And if this is bucket shop activity what is logistically wrong with it?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Regarding this part of R post https://community.bitfinex.com/content.php/32-Regarding-recent-team-change
Quote
Please notice that the fact that he was an advisor for Bitfinex and not a shareholder was always clear and never in doubt.
well the email about share dilution from 16/03/2013


this begs the questions

if i am not a share holder why i get diluted ?

why i get to share with other people that are considered share holders ?

Because the profits are a fixed size pie and the pieces have to be moved around.

In my example above, It's me and 8 employees.  If a 9th employee comes in, then the shares of profit sharing will get diluted.  None of us are shareholders in the company, but we do get profit sharing as part of our compensation package.


But regardless of this, and whether or not you think you are a shareholder or not, what is the resolution you are looking for?

(And is the other party even still responding to this thread?  If not, then anything we talk about is irrelevant at this point.)
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
regarding this
Quote
In the following days he then withdrew the vast majority of his funds, showing very little trust in what we had done (I don't blame him for that, it's his money and he can do whatever he wants with it, but still...).
i took my money out on and i did not made a secret from it
Quote
myself: i got my bfx money Apr 17

Quote
xxxxxx: myself, I understand you have moved funds from Gox? Just wondering how long that have taken? Apr 17
myself: i moved funds via BFX

I took my money out because mr tang did not deposit the 150k and no money was deposited until I lost my read only access this june if the money was deposited I was not notified and the deposited money did not show up on his market maker account this account did have a total usd in negative if the money was deposited via other account or other way I have no idea
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
imho such an agreement requires you to buy yourself in first
and i did

note:
that was the case for  BITFINEX LIMITED CR number:1872039 with date of Incorporation:08-MAR-2013

and not for Bitfinex Technology Limited CR number:1912844 with date of Incorporation:24-MAY-2013


u can check this here http://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 250
ManualMiner
you mentioned "first agreement" - is there a second agreement concerning the shares? i have the impression that

-first agreement grants you 10% of the profits as payment for consulting (of course no participation for losses with that, it might be kind of a service contract). no consulting, no profit for you. agreement lacks completely the minimum amount of consulting that triggers your right to receive 10%. also it lacks the question if you get a service-fee for times of null-consulting. maybe this fact might lead you to the conclusion that you get 10% even if there is no consulting. very questionable. imho the agreement can be terminated any time.

-second agreement might be the shareholder agreement (shares of the ltd). you state holding 20-25% percent of the ltd but dont participate losses. maybe. imho such an agreement requires you to buy yourself in first (deposit cash in return for the share). but this questions imho cant be answered by the first agreement. if there is no "second" agreement, well, then you would have to check back the legislation under which the ltd was installed - what is the content of a null-content-contract for shares of a ltd under this legislation? are you a dormant partner? if this legislation grants you a participation for profits, good for you, if it only grants you profits with share of losses, bad - or good too, if they just let you out without payment..

?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
That being said, we are getting a bit off track.  Usually, companies, before they fire workers, if the workers are of significant value, have a severance agreement with their employees.  Do you think some sort of severance pay would be to your satisfaction?

And if not, what do you think a satisfactory result should be?

Once again, in case anyone is unclear on the matter, I am completely neutral in this case.  I actually have no idea who BFX is or what they do, and have met none of the parties here, but I am just trying to help make the community a bit better by facilitating a dialogue and "arbitrating" if you will.

So basically you're just an uppity clueless noob. The veheheeeery uppity but extreeeheheeemely clueless and therefore extremely lulzy variety.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
Regarding this part of R post https://community.bitfinex.com/content.php/32-Regarding-recent-team-change
Quote
Please notice that the fact that he was an advisor for Bitfinex and not a shareholder was always clear and never in doubt.
well the email about share dilution from 16/03/2013


this begs the questions

if i am not a share holder why i get diluted ?

why i get to share with other people that are considered share holders ?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

i think you are mixing up profit sharing shares and equity shares.

it sounds like you were offered 50% equity shares at the beginning.  But since you wanted to be shielded from loss, you turned that down and agreed to 10% of profit shares (dividends if you will).

At some point, you were upgraded to 25%, still profit sharing shares, since you had no risk.  Then that was diluted to 20%

The rules of the game did in fact change, but you were given the option to play under the new rules or leave the game.  That is perfectly fair.  They did not force you to pay for the losses because that's not what the contract said.  But they essentially gave you the option of converting your profit sharing shares to equity shares (had you chose to do so, since they were equity shares, you would have been responsible for a part of the losses).

You didn't accept to renegotiate the terms and I don't think anyone disputes that.  That's why you were fired.  You were given the option of renegotiating, and you chose not to.  As such, your employment with the company in question was terminated.  As in all terminations, you kept your pay from before the termination and they owe you nothing more.
profit sharing shares dont exist what does exist are called preferred shares and the conditions for preferred shares vary from company to company based on contract conditions, for example Zuckerberg shares on Facebook have more voting power so he keeps the voting majority even if the percentage is lower that 50%, my preferred shares do not take loses simple like that

Actually, they both exist.

Preferred stock traditionally actually has no voting power.  There are of course exceptions (I an not familiar with FB stock), but while preferred stock has preference of dividends over common stock, common stock actually has more voting power (once again with some exceptions like the issuance of new preferred stock).

Profit sharing shares is traditionally given to employees of a company as part of their compensation package.  For example, I work for Tech Machines Inc. in the Widget Sales department.  My salary is $100,000 a year.  However. as part of my compensation package, I also get profit sharing from the profits that my department makes.  Let's say that the company determines that 10% of our net profits will be distributed to employees.  There are 100 shares of profit sharing total, and since I am the supervisor, I get 20 profit sharing shares.  The other 8 guys who work for me get 10 shares a piece.  So if our Net profit for the year is $1,000,000 then the company pays out $100,000 in profit sharing.  Of that, since I have 20 shares (out of 100), I get $20,000 bringing my annual compensation to $ 120,000 (plus other benefits).  The other 8 guys on my team get $10,000 a piece.

Going back and reading the contract, "myself will receive a financial compensation of 10% of the profits of the previously mentionned website, every month" [sic, emphasis mine].  No where in the contract does it say anything about issuing you preferred shares.  It specifically uses the word profits.


That being said, we are getting a bit off track.  Usually, companies, before they fire workers, if the workers are of significant value, have a severance agreement with their employees.  Do you think some sort of severance pay would be to your satisfaction?

And if not, what do you think a satisfactory result should be?

Once again, in case anyone is unclear on the matter, I am completely neutral in this case.  I actually have no idea who BFX is or what they do, and have met none of the parties here, but I am just trying to help make the community a bit better by facilitating a dialogue and "arbitrating" if you will.  (Which is also why I don't understand the insults being thrown my way).  Clearly, you're not just here to bitch and moan--there is something that you, "myself" wants from this.  What resolution would be to your satisfaction?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

From what retarded planet do you bring these tidings of shareholders "responsible for part of the losses"?


Earth???  If you were were in a partnership with a me and we were 50/50 partners selling widgets when our widget plant burns down.  Would we not both be responsible for the losses?

Or if you buy stock in Apple at $100 and next week they are slammed with a fine of 2 billion dollars, and the stock value dropped to $10, would you still claim that Apple owes you the full $100 for your stock?

Even "myself" himself acknowledges that sharholders are "responsible for part of the losses."  He just is now claiming that his preferred shares were shielded from the losses (implying that the common shares were not).  I will address this in a minute.


From what alternate universe do you bring these tidings of "firing" shareholders?

Man, what's up with all the insults?  Like I said before, and as others said before, we are under the impression he was an employee and not a shareholder.  He was paid based on profit sharing, but not in a fixed salary.  No one is claiming anyone fired a shareholder.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
But they essentially gave you the option of converting your profit sharing shares to equity shares (had you chose to do so, since they were equity shares, you would have been responsible for a part of the losses).

From what retarded planet do you bring these tidings of shareholders "responsible for part of the losses"?

That's why you were fired.

From what alternate universe do you bring these tidings of "firing" shareholders?

This is the funniest thread of the week for seriously.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
MPOE-PR's posts are a mixture of outrageous trolling and insight.   This is trolling.

I'm guessing that the trolling is based on fundamental opposition to being able to buy or sell on the margin and a preference for an options system.  Now it is fine if you want that - however there are risks with people not being able to cover their options as well.

MPOE's options system is directly in competition with BFX.  So slandering the competition makes sense.



Of course, they're incredibly transparent.  But then what would you expect from someone like this:  http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-nigger-homeowners-and-other-niggers/
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)

i think you are mixing up profit sharing shares and equity shares.

it sounds like you were offered 50% equity shares at the beginning.  But since you wanted to be shielded from loss, you turned that down and agreed to 10% of profit shares (dividends if you will).

At some point, you were upgraded to 25%, still profit sharing shares, since you had no risk.  Then that was diluted to 20%

The rules of the game did in fact change, but you were given the option to play under the new rules or leave the game.  That is perfectly fair.  They did not force you to pay for the losses because that's not what the contract said.  But they essentially gave you the option of converting your profit sharing shares to equity shares (had you chose to do so, since they were equity shares, you would have been responsible for a part of the losses).

You didn't accept to renegotiate the terms and I don't think anyone disputes that.  That's why you were fired.  You were given the option of renegotiating, and you chose not to.  As such, your employment with the company in question was terminated.  As in all terminations, you kept your pay from before the termination and they owe you nothing more.
profit sharing shares dont exist what does exist are called preferred shares and the conditions for preferred shares vary from company to company based on contract conditions, for example Zuckerberg shares on Facebook have more voting power so he keeps the voting majority even if the percentage is lower that 50%, my preferred shares do not take loses simple like that
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
There is a lot of people who are talking about different things thinking it's the same thing.

This is what I gather:

1) myself was a consultant.  He was paid a certain percentage of the profits for his work.  If there were no profits, he did not incur any losses.

This is to say that he had no equity in the organization.  He was an employee working solely for compensation based on profit sharing.  Is this part correct?

2) at some point, he was asked to contribute to the losses in exchange for equity.  He refused (as everyone has agreed was his right to).  The equity partners decided at this point to terminate his employment status as a consultant (which is a modification of the contract as per the last line).  As such his access to the site was revoked.

Is this part correct?

I'm not sure what the issue is here.  He had a job, was told he could either be promoted to an equity partner (by paying his share) or else he would be terminated.  Is he contending that his contract stated that he could not be terminated in the manner in which he was terminated?


1) well at the beginning R offer me 50% and i said no to that and i only take 10% and no loses (that was the point i dont take any loss)
2) in late January thing moved to make Bitfinex limited and i got 25% shares in this company
3) there where some loses after that that go paid by R and some got paid by platform earnings
4) then i got diluted to 20% so investors can get in
5) and the rules of the game was to be changed since i was asked to pay some loses that before i did not have to pay
6) i never give up any terms of my contract and never accepted to renegotiate them

i think you are mixing up profit sharing shares and equity shares.

it sounds like you were offered 50% equity shares at the beginning.  But since you wanted to be shielded from loss, you turned that down and agreed to 10% of profit shares (dividends if you will).

At some point, you were upgraded to 25%, still profit sharing shares, since you had no risk.  Then that was diluted to 20%

The rules of the game did in fact change, but you were given the option to play under the new rules or leave the game.  That is perfectly fair.  They did not force you to pay for the losses because that's not what the contract said.  But they essentially gave you the option of converting your profit sharing shares to equity shares (had you chose to do so, since they were equity shares, you would have been responsible for a part of the losses).

You didn't accept to renegotiate the terms and I don't think anyone disputes that.  That's why you were fired.  You were given the option of renegotiating, and you chose not to.  As such, your employment with the company in question was terminated.  As in all terminations, you kept your pay from before the termination and they owe you nothing more.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
MPOE-PR's posts are a mixture of outrageous trolling and insight.

True.

This is trolling.

False.

That's how politics works, especially where low information voters are concerned. Well done, a loser is you.

I'm guessing that the trolling is based on fundamental opposition to being able to buy or sell on the margin and a preference for an options system.

MPEx has margin. What now?

MPOE's options system is directly in competition with BFX.

Bitfinex is a bucket shop. As such it may be construed to be in competition with bad radio programs (the sort that promote the various conspiracy theories) and perhaps Max Keiser. Even such a claim would be a significant (and unwarranted) leap.

Now it is fine if you want that - however there are risks with people not being able to cover their options as well.

Not on MPEx. Read up on things before you discuss said things.

So slandering the competition makes sense.

Calling out the various scams and idiocies (the two are often hard to distinguish) has been misrepresented as slander by scammers and idiots since about forever. It never worked, it's never going to work, it's just a waste of breath.
legendary
Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023
MPOE-PR's posts are a mixture of outrageous trolling and insight.   This is trolling.

I'm guessing that the trolling is based on fundamental opposition to being able to buy or sell on the margin and a preference for an options system.  Now it is fine if you want that - however there are risks with people not being able to cover their options as well.

MPOE's options system is directly in competition with BFX.  So slandering the competition makes sense.

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Ianov FARSACIU,


Thank you.

1. Myself is a self-confessed liar.  If what he's saying now is true then he lied previously when claiming everything was honest on the site - and generally acted in a deceptive manner for months, only blowing the whistle when he got cut out from the take.  So we have to decide whether he lied then, now or both times.  And we can't take his word for it - so we lack evidence to reach any conclusion.

The correct construction on the events isn't that we lack evidence to reach any conclusion, it's that we have sufficient and concrete evidence to support the worst possible conclusion for all the people involved.

Not only is this the logically correct approach but it also disincentivizes scammer behavior such as displayed by ALL the people involved with this site, starting with Devasini and van der Velde (yes, it IS wrong to bankroll scams, and no you will never get away with it) while providing no actual detriment to serious, honest entrepreneurs, making it also the ethically correct approach.

2. Scrooge not responding is

He did, above.

Doubt anyone gives a shit about the falling out over the detail of a contract which had no specified duration.

Well, we did have some lolz over reading the purported "contract".

And now to address Raphael Nicolle's retarded bullshit:

They came in April, a month during which we lost quite some money with the Big Crash. So at the end of the month, we agreed to cover all losses, if we were to be associates. You refused it, and stated that you only want to share profit and will never take any losses.

there was never money put in that was not going to be paid. If our associates which you met, and you now how wealthy they are, weren't there, there would be no more Bitfinex. They allow us to pass a hard time of 5 figures losses, and now be strong as we are.

MPOE-R you still don't get how Bitfinex matches user position with real funds of lenders and doesn't act as a bucket shop, and it's a shame from you.

Problem solved. They're both liars, they're both very bad at it.

They're both idiots, the sort that pretend to be "entrepreneurs" on rich people's money. They're both very bad at it.

Attention Bitcoin wanna-be investors: You are not losing your shirt "because Bitcoin". You are losing your shirt because of your own stupidity, dealing with chumps such as these two. The longer you keep at it, the lower your chances overall. Business, that means war.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
regarding that i am weird ( also posted here https://community.bitfinex.com/content.php/32-Regarding-recent-team-change )
for example being gay for some is weird for others is normal, what is normal for me can be weird for you, what is weird for me can be normal for you, I think the proper term for this in English is subjective opinion
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
is true that when the markets are closed on weekends or very boring i am not at the PC and most ppl who know me are aware that on weekend they cant reach me

regarding the accusation ( https://community.bitfinex.com/content.php/32-Regarding-recent-team-change ) that I was not reachable and I disappeared when the btc market drop like a rock on 10/04/2013 here is a picture of the send emails (emails that have same time are duplicate because of the filtering)

this image dont lie and if i click any of the emails the pgp will verify the time on the email

legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)

4) then i got diluted to 20% so investors can get in
5) and the rules of the game was to be changed since i was asked to pay some loses that before i did not have to pay
6) i never give up any terms of my contract and never accepted to renegotiate them

Right, but as per your "contract":


- - -raphael has the right to ignore any of these proposals
- - -raphael has the right to change any of these proposals


that referring to the features and modifications that i request to be made on the platform no the the contract itself
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000

4) then i got diluted to 20% so investors can get in
5) and the rules of the game was to be changed since i was asked to pay some loses that before i did not have to pay
6) i never give up any terms of my contract and never accepted to renegotiate them

Right, but as per your "contract":


- - -raphael has the right to ignore any of these proposals
- - -raphael has the right to change any of these proposals

legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
There is a lot of people who are talking about different things thinking it's the same thing.

This is what I gather:

1) myself was a consultant.  He was paid a certain percentage of the profits for his work.  If there were no profits, he did not incur any losses.

This is to say that he had no equity in the organization.  He was an employee working solely for compensation based on profit sharing.  Is this part correct?

2) at some point, he was asked to contribute to the losses in exchange for equity.  He refused (as everyone has agreed was his right to).  The equity partners decided at this point to terminate his employment status as a consultant (which is a modification of the contract as per the last line).  As such his access to the site was revoked.

Is this part correct?

I'm not sure what the issue is here.  He had a job, was told he could either be promoted to an equity partner (by paying his share) or else he would be terminated.  Is he contending that his contract stated that he could not be terminated in the manner in which he was terminated?


1) well at the beginning R offer me 50% and i said no to that and i only take 10% and no loses (that was the point i dont take any loss)
2) in late January thing moved to make Bitfinex limited and i got 25% shares in this company
3) there where some loses after that that go paid by R and some got paid by platform earnings
4) then i got diluted to 20% so investors can get in
5) and the rules of the game was to be changed since i was asked to pay some loses that before i did not have to pay
6) i never give up any terms of my contract and never accepted to renegotiate them
sr. member
Activity: 411
Merit: 250
"myself" is the scammer lol
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 13
So Tang and Devasini were just taking on the liabilities incurred by the delays in forced liquidation when the market crashed? As opposed to having lenders take the hit? Am I understanding correctly, and if so, what's wrong with that?
example;now let talk in small numbers so i can explain it better
1 lets say you get 1BTC forced executed at 10
2 I buy your 1 BTC position at 10 usd but i dont deposit said 10 USD
3 you the trader take the loss and you are done
4 the platform now have 1 BTC instead of 10 usd
5 the market price now is 5 USD
5 now the platform total assets is 5 USD lower that is should because it has 1 BTC instead of 10USD the platform is 5 USD in loss
6 when you get forced liquidated on mtgox at 10 that create a 10 USD reserve at mtgox and now at 5 another trader can borrow 10 USD and buy 2 BTC on a long position
7 if the additional 10USD reserve are not on mtgox the trader can borrow the 10 USD but its buy order dont get executed because of lack of funds

On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle wrote:
> Just a confirmation to answer your question "Myself": we lend MrTang
> the money to buy the forced executed. He will have a negative balance
> until he sells the bitcoins he has and/or repay the difference should
> the price go even lower
.

Is the bolded part true? Was that the agreement with Tang and Devasini? Were they in a position to make good on that agreement, in the event that the price did not recover?
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
......

Quote
If true it would sound like the Tang situation was along the lines of Tang saying "Can I borrow $150K?  I think BTC is going to go back up shortly so I'd like to buy up some cheap BTC from all the panic sellers and people forced to sell due to margin calls".  And the site crediting him with it.  Obviously that's horrendous for all other users of the site - as if he gets his trading wrong and then doesn't pay then $150k of THEIR cash has now vanished.

that idea was G idea and he proposed that to mr Tang

Quote
only blowing the whistle when he got cut out from the take.

maybe i should have said more that just "i dont like that", each time you compromise it come back to kick your ass and i got and will get mine kicked

Quote
Either way myself should get the scammer tag - either for deceiving investors back then or for trying to besmirch the site now (or, conceivably, both).

i did not lie to the investors and at least one of them (G) did have 100% knowledge about all this since he was in the team

Quote
Doubt anyone gives a shit about the falling out over the detail of a contract which had no specified duration.
i post on that later
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
So Tang and Devasini were just taking on the liabilities incurred by the delays in forced liquidation when the market crashed? As opposed to having lenders take the hit? Am I understanding correctly, and if so, what's wrong with that?
example;now let talk in small numbers so i can explain it better
1 lets say you get 1BTC forced executed at 10
2 I buy your 1 BTC position at 10 usd but i dont deposit said 10 USD
3 you the trader take the loss and you are done
4 the platform now have 1 BTC instead of 10 usd
5 the market price now is 5 USD
5 now the platform total assets is 5 USD lower that is should because it has 1 BTC instead of 10USD the platform is 5 USD in loss
6 when you get forced liquidated on mtgox at 10 that create a 10 USD reserve at mtgox and now at 5 another trader can borrow 10 USD and buy 2 BTC on a long position
7 if the additional 10USD reserve are not on mtgox the trader can borrow the 10 USD but its buy order dont get executed because of lack of funds
legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001

1. Myself is a self-confessed liar.  If what he's saying now is true then he lied previously when claiming everything was honest on the site - and generally acted in a deceptive manner for months, only blowing the whistle when he got cut out from the take.  So we have to decide whether he lied then, now or both times.  And we can't take his word for it - so we lack evidence to reach any conclusion.

I don't see that point yet. The 1M$ accused event is all new, it's not like the site was dishonest over any longer period and 'myself' ignoring it without coming forward for months? Or am I missing some point?
Right the opposite, as I understand it, 'myself' was shut out partly as a consequence for asking questions about that 1M$ accusation?

Sorry, the OP is awfully long. I read through it some days ago, I'm sure I already am mixing things up.

Ente
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
There is a lot of people who are talking about different things thinking it's the same thing.

This is what I gather:

1) myself was a consultant.  He was paid a certain percentage of the profits for his work.  If there were no profits, he did not incur any losses.

This is to say that he had no equity in the organization.  He was an employee working solely for compensation based on profit sharing.  Is this part correct?

2) at some point, he was asked to contribute to the losses in exchange for equity.  He refused (as everyone has agreed was his right to).  The equity partners decided at this point to terminate his employment status as a consultant (which is a modification of the contract as per the last line).  As such his access to the site was revoked.

Is this part correct?

I'm not sure what the issue is here.  He had a job, was told he could either be promoted to an equity partner (by paying his share) or else he would be terminated.  Is he contending that his contract stated that he could not be terminated in the manner in which he was terminated?


My reading of the situation is the same as yours. I understand that Myself is upset, possibly because of the way he was locked out and ignored, but there doesn't seem to be any cause for him to expect a buy-out or additional compensation. The "contract" is clear, and Myself was also very clear in his signature here on the forum that he was "just a consultant for Bitfinex."

Myself's posts are obviously those of someone who is hurt and angry. He was involved from the beginning, and it seems that both he and Raphael shared some kind of anarchic idealism that fueled the project early on. Now that things have grown, and professional investors have come on board, Myself probably feels squeezed out, and disrespected. If his accusations were limited to the running of an unlicensed copy of the forum software, that would be that.

The talk of phantom deposits, however, is extremely serious, and scammer tag or not, could permanently damage trust in the platform. Raphael should voluntarily address this issue head on, because no matter how undignified it might seem, these are not just random accusations from outsiders, but from someone with access to the books. There must be others who, like me, will need to be convinced that things really are on the up and up before returning funds to Bitfinex.
legendary
Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023
If the Mr Tang loan is real (and I can understand the site operators thinking that they had to take some action while not being able to connect with MtGox and force liquidate at market prices). The question is whether there was any collateral.  If not, then it was an extremely bad idea as there was an good chance that the BTC price was going down for a long bear market like 2011.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
There is a lot of people who are talking about different things thinking it's the same thing.

This is what I gather:

1) myself was a consultant.  He was paid a certain percentage of the profits for his work.  If there were no profits, he did not incur any losses.

This is to say that he had no equity in the organization.  He was an employee working solely for compensation based on profit sharing.  Is this part correct?

2) at some point, he was asked to contribute to the losses in exchange for equity.  He refused (as everyone has agreed was his right to).  The equity partners decided at this point to terminate his employment status as a consultant (which is a modification of the contract as per the last line).  As such his access to the site was revoked.

Is this part correct?

I'm not sure what the issue is here.  He had a job, was told he could either be promoted to an equity partner (by paying his share) or else he would be terminated.  Is he contending that his contract stated that he could not be terminated in the manner in which he was terminated?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
So Tang and Devasini were just taking on the liabilities incurred by the delays in forced liquidation when the market crashed? As opposed to having lenders take the hit? Am I understanding correctly, and if so, what's wrong with that?

You're not understanding it at all.

Imagine you go to a poker game.  You pay some cash in and get given your chips to play with.

Well in this game (according to myself) some of your opponents were given chips without having to pay for them.  That means you lose either way:

If you lose to them then your money is gone.
If you win at the poker then there's not enough money to buy your chips back off you.

Replace poker with 'gamble by margin-trading on the BTC/USD currency pair' and that's what is being alleged.  The extent to which it (in practice) harmed investors would depend on the price at which bids were placed to buy forced-executed closes : were they at or above market or well below (with a timely DC from Gox to force the execution onto internal orders).  Remember there's no advantage to the person having a forced-execution for it to be to someone associated with the site rather than to random stranger on MtGox.  And there's no real benefit to the site either - as selling BTC held in trust for a user to someone who hasn't deposited the cash to pay for the BTC isn't better in ANY respect than selling to someone for actual cash.

If true it would sound like the Tang situation was along the lines of Tang saying "Can I borrow $150K?  I think BTC is going to go back up shortly so I'd like to buy up some cheap BTC from all the panic sellers and people forced to sell due to margin calls".  And the site crediting him with it.  Obviously that's horrendous for all other users of the site - as if he gets his trading wrong and then doesn't pay then $150k of THEIR cash has now vanished.

Whether it's true or not is hard to tell.  There's two reasons why -

1. Myself is a self-confessed liar.  If what he's saying now is true then he lied previously when claiming everything was honest on the site - and generally acted in a deceptive manner for months, only blowing the whistle when he got cut out from the take.  So we have to decide whether he lied then, now or both times.  And we can't take his word for it - so we lack evidence to reach any conclusion.
2. Scrooge not responding is consistent with innocence (he doesn't want to waste time on entirely fabricated allegations) or with guilt (he just wants the topic to die so he can get away with it).  So we can't conclude anything from the lack of a detailed rebuttal.

The allegations do have the ring of truth about them to me.  But I'd never actually go so far as to reach a conclusion based just on that.  The problem is that although we now all know for certain that myself is a liar, we don't know how GOOD at lieing he is.  So he could just be a very accomplished liar able to make up a convincing-sounding allegation.

Either way myself should get the scammer tag - either for deceiving investors back then or for trying to besmirch the site now (or, conceivably, both).  His own posts convict on one or the other - no need to decide which to give the tag.

If mods want to move forward with the unclescrooge tag then a good starting point would be asking him to confirm or deny whether the email referring to Tang is legitimate.  It's likely it can be verified that it's genuine (if it IS genuine and if he denies it).  If he admits its genuine then an explanation of why they were loaning site members' cash to 'Mr Tang' would be welcome.

Doubt anyone gives a shit about the falling out over the detail of a contract which had no specified duration.
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 13
no is no like that and there was no incident

1) they did not deposit 1 single USD on this accounts
2) they got 150k and 1mil in balance given by R since he got convinced to do this
3) all that money was customer money
4) with that money they get to buy all forced execution positions until all money got used and then sell when the market bounced

On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle wrote:
> Just a confirmation to answer your question "Myself": we lend MrTang
> the money to buy the forced executed. He will have a negative balance
> until he sells the bitcoins he has and/or repay the difference should
> the price go even lower.

So Tang and Devasini were just taking on the liabilities incurred by the delays in forced liquidation when the market crashed? As opposed to having lenders take the hit? Am I understanding correctly, and if so, what's wrong with that?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
@MPOE-PR if you want any reply from me make short and to the point questions atm i am not in a state to deal with with long+spin+god_know_what posts

That's okay honey, the idea that you somehow are suddenly any less dumb today than last week or last year was a longshot anyway.

It's not for you.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
@unclescrooge and myself:

Quote
3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and wascredited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this Icannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

So the first incident was due to a delayed forced liquidation, correct? What was the second incident (Devasini)? Some sort of bug in the platform?
no is no like that and there was no incident

1) they did not deposit 1 single USD on this accounts
2) they got 150k and 1mil in balance given by R since he got convinced to do this
3) all that money was customer money
4) with that money they get to buy all forced execution positions until all money got used and then sell when the market bounced
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
One bitcoin to rule them all!
@unclescrooge and myself:

Quote
3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and wascredited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this Icannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

So the first incident was due to a delayed forced liquidation, correct? What was the second incident (Devasini)? Some sort of bug in the platform?

Think it was that if you put in a wrong value in the price-field, and clicked the "sell/buy at market price", it would use the price you had specified if a counter offer was in the order-list.
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 13
@unclescrooge and myself:

Quote
3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and wascredited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this Icannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

So the first incident was due to a delayed forced liquidation, correct? What was the second incident (Devasini)? Some sort of bug in the platform?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000

I think my post was clear, and I won't add anything to it. If you want to waste your time on childish posts, please do. If you want to drag other names into it, please understand this will not continue on a forum.

Thanks
Raphael
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
One bitcoin to rule them all!
myself u are a scammer

Have you looked under your avatar lately?

Trust: -9: -2 / +0(0)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
i go to sleep now and tomorrow i am out so don't expect any reply's soon
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Man, I should have put MPOE-PR on ignore so long ago.  My bad, but consider that rectified.  What a dick.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
I only give up 5% to 20% I did never give up the whole 25%

and yes i told you if you want my 20% that's the price take it or leave it

Quote
I don't want to read anymore that we steal your forum licence (this is wrong, we bought everything back to VBulletin and third parties, and it's a shame as we could have bought it from you if you were only open to discussion)
when i made this thread that was not the case

Quote
I don't want to read this kind of false accusations
bullshit

Quote
From - Wed Apr 03 15:37:44 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 15:37:35 +0200
From: myself <[email protected]>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Tang Insurance
References: <CAG4Gv-LRZc0_GxXCpT2syafiK9mfZXw8zG5-3PsVUE3i97NZmA@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-JSZoHFqGLLS2y3DcUwJK5Ztojdbu4BKjex_a_DczscoQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
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On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle wrote:
> Just a confirmation to answer your question "Myself": we lend MrTang
> the money to buy the forced executed. He will have a negative balance
> until he sells the bitcoins he has and/or repay the difference should
> the price go even lower.
>
i dont like that ....also why dont you lent me 150k lol

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          http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
  
  
    
On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle
      wrote:

    

    cite=3D"mid:[email protected]=
ail.com"
      type=3D"cite">
              charset=3DISO-8859-1">
      
Just a confirmation to answer your question
        "Myself": we lend MrTang the money to buy the forced executed.
        He will have a negative balance until he sells the bitcoins he
        has and/or repay the difference should the price go even lower.div>
      

    
    i dont like that ....also why dont you lent me 150k lol

  


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hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Ianov FARSACIU,

Let me recapitulate the whole story:

We agreed on a contract, where you would be giving advices to me, in exchange for 10% of profit. You would not participate in the decisions, nor in the losses. This is a consulting contract with remuneration based on performances.

And so for months, I paid 150+ btc to cover bugs to users, paid thousands of euros for incorporation,... You didn't put a dime, fair enough, it was the contract. You acted as an advisor/consultant.

Now come other associates which I gladly invited to the team. They don't want a crypto-anarchist project, they want a serious team, they don't want a joke of a contract, they want legal papers. They came in April, a month during which we lost quite some money with the Big Crash. So at the end of the month, we agreed to cover all losses, if we were to be associates. You refused it, and stated that you only want to share profit and will never take any losses. By doing this you confirmed that you want a consulting contract, not be an associate. So we proposed you, and multiples times since then, to tell us what you were looking in term of remuneration for a consulting collaboration. You never answer to this. You just came yesterday asking us 5000 BTC so you can leave the team. After which I cut you access to the read-only part of the admin side of Bitfinex (what would you expect?).

there was never money put in that was not going to be paid. If our associates which you met, and you now how wealthy they are, weren't there, there would be no more Bitfinex. They allow us to pass a hard time of 5 figures losses, and now be strong as we are.

Now Ianov, I'm sorry we have come to this. I'm sorry you refused to discuss at all, I'm sorry you were paranoid from day 1, just to end up creating some thread on a forum to do what? You know, and I believe everyone knows, that I am really open to discussion. I mean fuck it's been a month since I asked you to state the kind of contract you want with us, and explained you that you are not, and never acted as, an associate. I believe this is a reasonable time to discuss things.

Now as I said, we are not a crypto-anarchist project but a real team with a project in the real world for the future, and we are doing things as a company do. That means that if you push us to do something, we won't create a thread on a forum. I hope the message is clear.

I don't want to read anymore that we steal your forum licence (this is wrong, we bought everything back to VBulletin and third parties, and it's a shame as we could have bought it from you if you were only open to discussion), I don't want to read that we credit money that doesn't exist, I don't want to read this kind of false accusations.

MPOE-R you still don't get how Bitfinex matches user position with real funds of lenders and doesn't act as a bucket shop, and it's a shame from you.

For everyone, sorry to have this dirty laundry in public. If you feel uneasy and want to withdraw your funds from Bitfinex, please do.

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team
legendary
Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023
There doesn't appear to be any duration terms specified in Myself's agreement. 

I think a better written contract would have a duration or process for ending it.
full member
Activity: 122
Merit: 100
myself u are a scammer
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
@MPOE-PR if you want any reply from me make short and to the point questions atm i am not in a state to deal with with long+spin+god_know_what posts
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
why I don't want to put money for the loses bitfinex have

Code:
From - Mon May 06 12:55:08 2013
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 12:54:48 +0200
From: myself
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle
Subject: Preliminary observations on Bitfinex.com losses
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Preliminary observations on Bitfinex.com losses.

Because of  our former agreement I'm protected by any loses generated in
bitfinex.com, I request that our former agreement has to be respected.
All this problem concerning the losses I think that is a strategy to get
rid of me "simply", without me you wouldn't have had the the same amount
of clients "we both have access to google analytics and we can see the
traffic generated through chatzy, where I talk to lots of traders and
they've been attracted to use our platform, besides that all the
information and promotion I did and do on the forums" and the platform
it wouldn't be the same and probably it couldn't be existing any longer,
because it was a bucket shop.

Regarding the losses there are a few key points that you should
understand, even though I'm not forced to be participant on the losses.
1. The losses are not settled every month the losses are settled at the
end of the fiscal year.
2. To know the exact amount of losses is required an external and
neutral audit for all the bitfinex accounts.
3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,
the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and was
credited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,
the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,
money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this I
cannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.
4. You are the only operator of the bitfinex platform and you let the
platform to lose money on purpose, you have been notified concerning
problems with the MTGOX platform, these losses are not generated by
mistake or by incompetence, you knowing it and let this happen and you
didn't want to stop it.

Because of all these points and the reasons exposed above my trust level
is extremely low and any decision regarding my financial interest in
Bitfinex. will be made after consulting other people.


--=20
Bye



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legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
the agreement part

Quote
myself is granted an access to the data exposing the financial situation of the website www.bitfinex.com. He can access these data any time he wants
and
Quote
myself will receive a financial compensation of 10% of the profits of the previously mentionned website, every month
and
Quote
should financial results be negative, myself won't pay nor receive anything for these negative months

R and the other investors insist that i need to pay for BFX loses and my agreement clearly say i do not have to put any money if there is a loss and this agreement was made previous to the join of investors just when there was R and me

using this strategy to push me out of BFX and to take my part away now that all the BFX logic is sound, there is a new market that there was not before on bitcoin world, the lending for leverage.


first agreement
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I agree with the following terms of the contract
09/nov/2012

myself


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07-11-2012:
'raphael' is the owner of the GPG Key with the fingerprint:
480E 1658 E97D 4C02 B084  268E A5E9 EDB9 1863 6AD7

'myself' is the owner of the GPG Key with the fingerprint:
8D81 F188 60D8 23D6 C5B4 9DCA 0D67 251C C6DA F00E

This contract has the following purpose:
- - -myself can give any proposal/advices to modify and enhance the website www.bitfinex.com
- - -myself is granted an access to the data exposing the financial situation of the website www.bitfinex.com. He can access these data any time he wants
- - -myself will receive a financial compensation of 10% of the profits of the previously mentionned website, every month
- - -should financial results be negative, myself won't pay nor receive anything for these negative months
- - -raphael has the right to ignore any of these proposals
- - -raphael has the right to change any of these proposals
- - -myself has no say in the expenses made by raphael to hire additional persons and/or modify the previously mentionned website
- - -the contract remains open to future negotiation of details
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after that agreement when BFX got incorporated i got a 25% share on BFX and then got diluted to 20% so investors get in BFX also
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
i lost my log in access emails

Code:
From - Mon Jun 03 22:53:16 2013
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:53:08 +0200
From: myself
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
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To: Raphael Nicolle
Subject: admin log in
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did u change something to my bitfinex.com/admin [email protected] i
cant log in anymore

--=20
Bye



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From - Mon Jun 03 22:58:06 2013
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:58:04 +0200
From: myself
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
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To: Raphael Nicolle
Subject: admin log in
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did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin [email protected]
i cant log in anymore

--=20
Bye



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i got this in reply

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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:58:07 -0700
From: "Raphael Nicolle"
To: [email protected]
Message-ID:
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: admin log in
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670"
Precedence: bulk
X-Autoreply: yes
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlFK9Dt2CXuIyfOlIf/lZZsOTY12LxISNyreqmuq2jgpK1eH/RjQSJ7TJIrfW8ozEEB/fLc

------=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Hello,

I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
Giancarlo Devasini
J.L. van der Velde

Best regards,
Raphael
Bitfinex team

------=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Hello,

I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
Giancarlo Devasini <[email protected]>


J.L. van der Velde <[email protected]>

Best regards,
Raphael
Bitfinex team





------=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670--



so i decide to send a email from other email address
Code:
From - Mon Jun 03 23:28:04 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0003
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                
Return-Path:
Received: from [192.168.0.100] (43.117.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es. [188.77.117.43])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fx7sm26109948wic.11.2013.06.03.14.03.53
        for
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 23:03:53 +0200
From: Ioan
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle ,
 Raphael Nicolle
Subject: admin log in
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin [email protected]
i cant log in anymore


but this time i get a manual reply
Code:
From - Mon Jun 03 23:27:54 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0013
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                
Delivered-To: [email protected]
Received: by 10.68.16.10 with SMTP id b10csp69801pbd;
        Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.59.6.101 with SMTP id ct5mr17535847ved.8.1370294678520;
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path:
Received: from mail-ve0-x22c.google.com (mail-ve0-x22c.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e8si4137143vcy.18.2013.06.03.14.24.37
        for
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of [email protected] designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of [email protected] designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c as permitted sender) [email protected];
       dkim=pass [email protected]
Received: by mail-ve0-f172.google.com with SMTP id jz10so3224974veb.17
        for ; Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type;
        bh=txkVd/7iXw/m2jtkDoYbfASR8gIeBUwLCzqBd/cehZ4=;
        b=OhmI0HyYgP5Ik1l6SGs6IbeqP8Z/fRzTDiqsGCCgmNnMyDTzzdcgBWyguD4FS2Es5v
         VBfIJvgwt4lMTbSUy5rTNr7fI+w+KVQCM2rbBIUuUyFQtnGdZsdvNYBnGEugZzTKNb9V
         4YN0HJBUBQBuX8pBYAV4YiSuuJotCmXc9uyLdrcBL3OHntROcn/IMaY91DAIi7R5e1no
         /bomxhlMWN6QPFCXeu+Chkf6GuarFR94mQ+/mT0P9eeXuUDO2MWzOZhDXNGX5IkzQFaE
         wTwYlrDJPns9KkmXfnJcY8xDZH+apcallJq+Z2DBcqgcMCwkTZdeyeIld8Z5hY8j3OMH
         RPeQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.52.22.228 with SMTP id h4mr14734875vdf.14.1370294677791;
 Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.196.147 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 23:24:37 +0200
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: admin log in
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_NICOLLE?=
To: Ioan
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee

--20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello,

I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
Giancarlo Devasini
J.L. van der Velde

Best regards
Raphael NICOLLE
Bitfinex team



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan wrote:

> On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:
> > did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin [email protected]
> > i cant log in anymore
>
>
> hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit   remember
> tomorrow there is a deadline
>

--20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I'm current=
ly away until the 18th of June.

For all matters re=
lated to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
Giancarlo Deva=
sini <g.devasi=
[email protected]
>

J.L. van der Velde <_blank">[email protected]>

Best regards=
Raphael NICOLLE
Bitfinex team

v>


On Mon,=
 Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan <@bitfinex.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]> wrote:>
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:

> did u change my admin log in ? arget=3D"_blank">bitfinex.com/admin m">[email protected]

> i cant log in anymore





hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit =A0 remember>
tomorrow there is a deadline




--20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee--


and ofc i see that this is bullshit

Code:
From - Mon Jun 03 23:28:04 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                
Return-Path:
Received: from [192.168.0.100] (43.117.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es. [188.77.117.43])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ff10sm26273341wib.10.2013.06.03.14.25.40
        for
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 23:25:40 +0200
From: Ioan
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_NICOLLE?=
Subject: Re: admin log in
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------000608040800070203000409"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000608040800070203000409
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

this email come from Raphaël NICOLLE the other one
come from [email protected]

so bullshit


On 03/06/2013 23:24, Raphaël NICOLLE wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm currently away until the 18th of June.
>
> For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
> Giancarlo Devasini >
> J.L. van der Velde >
>
> Best regards
> Raphael NICOLLE
> Bitfinex team
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan > > wrote:
>
>     On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:
>     > did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin
>     [email protected]
>    
>     > i cant log in anymore
>
>
>     hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit   remember
>     tomorrow there is a deadline
>
>


--------------000608040800070203000409
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


  
          http-equiv="Content-Type">
  
  
    
this email come from Raphaël NICOLLE
      <[email protected]> the other one come from
      [email protected]

      

      so bullshit

      

      

      On 03/06/2013 23:24, Raphaël NICOLLE wrote:

    

    cite="mid:CAEG5Az5uYVPxz0yTDiXmPqeeHjgSQyzG_5w7HTp-CdMhvBHXSw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      
      

        
Hello,
          


          

          
I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

          


          

          
For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex,
            please contact:

          
          
          


          

          
Best regards

          
Raphael NICOLLE

          
Bitfinex team

          


          

        

      

      


        

        
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan             dir="ltr"><              href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]>
          wrote:

          

            On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:

            > did u change my admin log in ?               moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://bitfinex.com/admin"
              target="_blank">bitfinex.com/admin               moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]

            > i cant log in anymore

            

            

            hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit
              remember

            tomorrow there is a deadline

          

        

        

      

    
    

  


--------------000608040800070203000409--


the reply
Code:
From - Mon Jun 03 23:34:53 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 23:34:45 +0200
From: myself
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_NICOLLE?=
Subject: Re: admin log in
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To:
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature";
 boundary="----enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH"

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
------enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------060307040007030108070405"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060307040007030108070405
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

is all or nothing=20

or i get all or i get nothing

On 03/06/2013 23:33, Rapha=EBl NICOLLE wrote:
> Hello,
>
> You refused to discuss our losses while now Bitfinex is not just me
> and all associates reached an agreement, like you did not propose to
> lift 1 btc when I reimbursed 150+ btc to our users since the start of
> Bitfinex (yes i know, as in the contract, but a contract doesn't
> prevent you to participate). Now I exposed you some alternatives
> because I don't wanted this contract anymore, and this is up to you.=20
>
> Please discuss it with Jean-Louis as with his email, my time will be
> limited in the next 2 weeks as I'm taking some well-deserved time off,
> only providing limited support to users.
>
> Thanks for your comprehension
> Raphael
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Rapha=EBl NICOLLE > > wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I'm currently away until the 18th of June.
>
>     For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact=
:
>     Giancarlo Devasini >     >
>     J.L. van der Velde >
>
>     Best regards
>     Raphael NICOLLE
>     Bitfinex team
>
>
>
>     On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan >     > wrote:
>
>         On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:
>         > did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin
>          [email protected]
>         
>         > i cant log in anymore
>
>
>         hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit =20
>         remember
>         tomorrow there is a deadline
>
>
>


--=20
Bye


--------------060307040007030108070405
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


 
          http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
 
 
   
is all or nothing 

     

      or i get all or i get nothing

     

      On 03/06/2013 23:33, Raphaël NICOLLE wrote:

   

    cite=3D"mid:[email protected]=
l.com"
      type=3D"cite">
              charset=3DISO-8859-1">
     
Hello,
       


       

       
You refused to discuss our losses while now Bitfinex is not
          just me and all associates reached an agreement, like you did
          not propose to lift 1 btc when I reimbursed 150+ btc to our
          users since the start of Bitfinex (yes i know, as in the
          contract, but a contract doesn't prevent you to participate).
          Now I exposed you some alternatives because I don't wanted
          this contract anymore, and this is up to you. 

       


       

       
Please discuss it with Jean-Louis as with his email, my
          time will be limited in the next 2 weeks as I'm taking some
          well-deserved time off, only providing limited support to
          users.

       


       

       
Thanks for your comprehension

       
Raphael

     

     


       

       
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:24 PM,
          Raphaël NICOLLE <"true"
              href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">raphbot=
@gmail.com
>

          wrote:

         

           

             
Hello,
               


               

               
I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

               


               

               
For all matters related to the interest of
                  Bitfinex, please contact:

               
               
               


               

               
Best regards

               
Raphael NICOLLE

               
Bitfinex team

               


               

             

           

           

             

               


                 

                 
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22=

                    PM, Ioan <                        moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                        href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email protected]>

                    wrote:

                   

                      On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:

                      > did u change my admin log in ?                         moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                        href=3D"http://bitfinex.com/admin" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitfinex.com/admin
                                              href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email protected]


                      > i cant log in anymore

                     

                     

                      hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply
                      bullshit   remember

                      tomorrow there is a deadline

                   

                 

                 

               

             

           

         

       

       

     

   
   

   

   
--=20
Bye

 


--------------060307040007030108070405--

------enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH
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Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
please note the following
i am extremely mad
and my English is very bad


this post will be updated

term many time used
unclescrooge= Raphael= R
urwhatuknow=Giancarlo=G





this is happening live here is a list of thing that did happen recently

1) is got my bitfinex admin login revoked
2) i got my admin access revoked https://community.bitfinex.com/member.php/1-Myself yes the forums license was mine (and still is mine)
3) R try to avoid me by filtering my emails and sending me auto reply emails that he is on vacation



broken agreements
1) read only access to BFX
2) the agreement that i wont take any loses from BFX (i dont have to put money for the loses on BFX)
3) payment of dividend at the end of the month ( other share holders got money i did not) BFX did pay a 10 000 USD dividend for the month of may


i know many people put the trust on me and they put money in BFX because of that, since tonight I lost my read only access and I cant keep a eye on their money  


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