Topic: Scientists find possible signs of life on Venus (Read 492 times)

It's all a question of what one deems more important... finding signs of life on Venus, or finding sines and cosines of intelligent life on Earth.

 

There is no problem with determining "habitable zones" in the solar system, but they will be defined not as planets or moons, but areas within those. For example, certain areas high in the atmosphere of Venus. Certain depths in the oceans of Europa. Likely, specified areas under the surface of Mars. So forth and so on.

The Moon is unique in that it has no habitable zones, but an incredible variety of metals and elements ready to mine and use right on the surface. It is the supply depot of Earth for solar system exploration.

When it comes to the origin of life, it's always been about theories upon theories and less proven facts. I believe in science but not 100% nope, not at all as i am also religious and know some mystical stuffs do exist too.

Life could be found almost everywhere according to science if the nutrients necessary for survival is there. So, it's really all about the nutrients plus, there is a possibility of translocation of these organisms there due to continual visits by astronauts to these planets and considering how microbes reproduce copies of itself with the necessary nutrients then, yes! Of course life can be there. Buy the question is,
Do you see yourself going there?
What's it going to take to make it conducive for human habitation?
Will it be worth it?

I'm skeptical about it. There could have been other processes that lead to the creation up there in the atmosphere (I'm no chemist though). If there were to be life in that planet though, the higher atmosphere is indeed the likely place to find them as the surface temperature is too high for life as we know it.

Jabut, think about all the forms of life that might exist.


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It is very difficult to find the existence of Venus due to its close proximity to the solar system it has not yet developed into a habitable animal. The high temperatures on this planet are usually like hot ovens for melting lead. The temperature of Venus is 484 degrees Celsius the chances of life surviving at this temperature are extremely slim. Its atmospheric temperature is much higher.

Guess I was selfish once thinking that we're just the people in the universe.  But growing up, and being able to study physics and philosophy, questions start raising in my mind like, "What if there are indeed other creatures in this universe?" It's interesting to know if there are really creatures other than us in the universe.

It is very interesting but surprising as well.
I would not surprised if their is live in Venus. It would be very selfish for us (people) to believe that we are alone in this universe.
Personally, I hope that scientists will find life on Venus because this would be very revolutionary for the world and many missions would start going to other planets.

The "first sign" was some asteroid that came from Mars with alleged fossil prints. Its only a matter of time for more evidence to come from there from the many missions ongoing and planned. Venus was actually unexpected, but then again what could we possibly know about life in the universe?

Studying Venus is difficult due to the planet's environment, but i suspect more probes will head there to investigate about those interesting readings.

Your "principle" sounds a lot like the Fermi paradox, but i wouldn't limit the scope to this mere solar system.

Also don't forget the Solar System has 8 planets, and a whole bunch of satellites and dwarfs (and the asteroid belt, possible remains of planet. After Neptune the next celestial object is called Eris, yes, you read that right, Pluto comes after Eris. The solar system is incredibly huge, but its but a grain of sand in the vast universe. Earth would by like a sub atomic particle or something.

The moon is "meh" but several countries are visiting because its "close". Even Israel tried but couldn't quite brake properly and left a bunch of debris on its surface. I guess they'll try again later. If you want the best pictures of the moon, look at the Chinese Chang'e probes. Even SpaceX is planning to send tourists to fly by it. NASA is also revisiting, for some reason.

Forget Venus. We are still trying to go to the moon.

Check the links at the site... not the wiener roast at the launch site in the rocket blast. The links to other pages at the website below.


Bezos' Blue Origin to set record with launch testing NASA moon mission hardware




NASA Tipping Point Partnership with Blue Origin to Test Precision Lunar Landing Technologies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osloNmDYJlY&feature=emb_logo

It's the lizard people, but you can't tell them with their masks on.

This is just so exhilarating to think that there is microbial life completely different from what we are used to know. Just sit and think what it will evolve in! Will the evolved creation be like human?

I will take his ray gun away. I want it. You can't have it. Well I might let you borrow it.

so you prefer that one day you wake up and run into this guy:



we need to know what's on other planets, maybe there are more beneficial things on other planets. The best way to be protected Is if we know what is on other planets. we have already seen how our weapons are capable of creating catastrophic destruction, now imagine if there are aliens with technology superior to ours? would you wake up and become a slave to this big-headed guy in this photo

Scientist says a lot of things to make it like what they are doing are more interesting but didn't they all says Mars also have signs of life there including Jupiter and Satturn?
Basically all planets were already ebing assume to have once been a flourishing planet and for wahtever reason they're all wiped out and only written documents was that they all act bad and punished by the one true god. Its possible those aliens are the ones we though angels?

Many of the essential activities of life as we know it, such as the formation of DNA and passage of things through cell walls, are based on a liquid water medium. Really they are based on a narrow range of temperatures.

To find life at say 700F even microbes, would be truly fascinating as it would be a study of something completely, utterly alien.

This is great news, I like to read any news about astro physics. The universe is so big that there must be life out there in my opinion. With millions of stars and galaxies we just can't be the only planet with life.

But first of all we need a common understanding of extraterrestrial life, is it just some microbial life? Or something more advanced like us humans? Venus is such a hot planet which would make it very hard for anything to exist. It don't think we will find life on any planet around planet. Maybe in the past but not now anymore.

Venus is bright because it is enveloped by clouds of sulfuric acid, which are very bright and reflect light. Light doesn't even get down to the inner atmosphere of carbon dioxide, except indirectly.

Indirectly means re-emitted wavelengths.


First chapter 8th grade chemistry or phsyics, the gas equation sets this relation.

P = T

The weight of atmosphere is >90x that of earth. Now figure the resulting T.
The excess of actual T over this calculated T is the effect of any "greenhouse." You can see that any such effect is very minor. Not that it in any way corresponds to the theory of the "greenhouse effect" as promulgated for Earth.

As done on Earth, solar flux hitting Earth is used to calculate T in that micro environment. IIRC the "greenhouse effect" adds about 18C to that number. There is virtually zero solar flux hitting the ground of Venus.

Earth's oxygen accumulated because of photosynthesis.  If you visited earth in the first billion years of life, it would've been a mostly anearobic environment with marine life but oxygen levels were as low as Mars.

The planets have whatever oxygen they had from the very beginning, plus some added by comets, less some lost to space in the absence of a magnetosphere (Venus and Mars). Co2 is a likely place for O2 to go, h2 being stripped off and lost to space.

Anybody can be a bit deranged. Even scientists. How ridiculous, searching for life on other planets! We really need to be looking for intelligence on Earth, right?

You are dead wrong.  Which climate denial blog did your numbers come from? Venus reflects 70% of the radiation that hits it as evident by its brightness in the sky.  The greenhouse effect is definitely why Venus is so hot.  The past is less clear but it could be that volcanism released massive amounts of gas into the atmosphere meaning the surface pressure increased over time.  (while Mars pressure decreased over time as the inner parts of the planet hardened.  All 3 planets are in the habitable zone.  If Venus and Mars swapped places, the trends we see on each planet would not significantly change.  

http://lasp.colorado.edu/~espoclass/ASTR_5835_2015_Readings_Notes/Titov_Et_Al-EVTP.pdf

As for the history.  Earth had life after about 1 billion years and photosynthesis after about 2 billion years.  Earth's oxygen accumulated because of photosynthesis.  If you visited earth in the first billion years of life, it would've been a mostly anearobic environment with marine life but oxygen levels were as low as Mars.

Okay, 'fess up. How's life on Venus?

Even if life is found on Venus, doesn't mean it's alien life.   It could have been transplanted from earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

If we find similar evidence on a planet in another solar system - that will be interesting!  Providing the planet is further than ejected rock/dust can travel in four billion years.

Yeah when I was talking about this level of technology, I was talking about the level of technology that WE are at as humans. I'm personally not going to theorize about the possibilities of other technologies and what they've achieved. Totally possible for them (if they exist) to be much further in communication / travel, but no evidence currently exists to further that claim.

You're right about the communication being the best way to just let people know we're here (or they're there). Traveling to them is a different story.

God created life about 7500 years ago. Standard Bibles record it as being about 6000 years ago. But the Septuagint Greek Old Testament (250 BC), and the Hebrew O.T. copies Josephus used, show the record that flows to about 7500 years ago.

If there is life on Venus in the way that it is being talked about in this thread, it came from here somehow. Otherwise it is simply wrong ideas that hopeful, irreligious scientists are using to gain more time to make more stories that have no real backing.

HOWEVER, there is one other possibility, though it is very unlikely. Whatever the angels are, they exist in outer space in many different places. Some of them have life in ways that are similar to ours, and life on earth. It is possible that they contaminated Venus with their life somehow.

The point is that this whole story about possible life on Venus is far from having any real evidence, and extremely far from being proven.

Either sentient creatures exist at various places in the Universe, and each is within a space time bubble that effectively limits it from contacting the others, or some of them have developed methods of communication or travel that overcome the light speed limitation.

Of "methods of communication" the simplest would be a means of signaling that would essentially say "We are here!" Far more difficult and unlikely would be everything requiring physical transport of biological creatures. Even getting to 9/10 lightspeed is incredibly difficult and for travel between stars, too slow.

Finding microbes on Mars or Venus would solve nothing. They could have gotten there from Earth, or from comets.

The question of the origin of life remains one of the most challenging scientific issues of all time. This is one of the questions mankind has wrestled with since the dawn of time.
The discovery of life 'elsewhere' may not completely solve this problem but it will certainly answer many important questions. In particular, is the origin of life a 'one time' event or has it happened (is happening) constantly around us? How widespread is life in the universe? And is there even a possibility of developing an intelligent life 'out there' in the vastness of the universe?

Yeah..... I really doubt this is going to end up being something.

Literally just something that hits the news every so often that people eat up. Don't know if people are more interested in finding another place to go and live if we are to use up all the resources here, OR if they're just interested if in if there's some sort of alien live somewhere.

But yeah, this fascination with life elsewhere doesn't make sense to me. The amount of time it would take for another society / civilization to get here would be insane. Nothing that is really possible with this level of technology.

We can go to colder places, but it's hard to go to a place that's 800F.

Because there's no atmosphere, Mercury is cooler than Venus. We could go to Mercury. Strange, really.

I'm not surprised at all. I mean, considering the size of the universe, it's pretty dumb to assume we're the only ones here. Anyway imo it doesn't matter that much, we've got our own battles which are within ourselves. 5g of shrooms and all these quistions will be eliminated (and multiplied at the same time, lmao)

It could be just us up there. Those gases are leftovers when started to colonize  earth lol

Actually this is what I have watched on the Ancient Aliens which some theories they mentioned was that we came from other planets and that we just came here on earth to mine Gold and so on. Funny but if its true this could mena we lost a lot of technology that we learned from the past.

It still hard to go on Venus if the gases there confirmes that its a liveable place. Must be hotter there as venus is closer to the sun.

To get to that conclusion, they have to set pre existing conditions that would allow liquid water on the surface. In other words, they have to set pre conditions that would create the desired outcome. But even then, it's a very weak assertion.

Sun output = 30% less --> Solar irradiance on Venus = 40% higher than current Earth. Do you really believe you'd have oceans here with 40% higher solar?

Actually, if they had oxygen in either Venus or Mars atmosphere, that would be a signal of life. But both have high co2, which indicates the opposite. All that's left to search for under category "life" is microbes that are anaerobic and/or live in high sulfur conditions.

Now let's go back to the headline. "Venus may once have been habitable."

Really? That "early 2 billion years" is a continual rain of asteroids, hellish conditions of continual volcanos... it's the planet becoming a planet, aggregating. So if it has a lot of water, that water becomes water vapor. Huge amounts of it, just like now Venus has huge amounts of co2.

In the absence of a magnetosphere, the solar winds would strip the H20 and other volatiles apart, and ultimately you'd be left with the tail end of the energy equation, CO2. And that's what you have on Venus.

With enough mass in the atmosphere (initially h20 if you like), the surface pressure would easily force water vapor into liquid form. That's a steam boiler, not an ocean. Evil Kneivel's rocket was just that, superheated steam.

Earth is by definition in the 'habitable zone'. Venus and Mars are not. Note that the known fact that Mars had ancient oceans is contrary to the hypothesis of an ancient dimmer sun. If anything, it would indicate an ancient stronger sun.

source: Venus May Once Have Been Habitable | NASA

The surface temperature is in the range to melt lead, not to boil it.

Anyway it was much more like earth before.
No. Never. I suspect you are referring to a totally unscientific piece of dogma repeated by the climate alarmist crowd, that Venus is the result of global warming, greenhouse, blah-blah-blah.

It has massive sulfuric acid clouds that trap and reflect solar energy in the cloud layers. The surface is 97 times that pressure of Earth.

Venus RECEIVES far more solar energy than Earth. It's closer to the Sun. The sulfuric acid and the temperatures would make short work of any microbes trying to survive, wouldn't they?

I don't read the facts that way.

Who says it was once nicer?

Because it was such a rare type of gas that required extreme conditions to form (as explained in the example of Jupiter), scientists were surprised by this discovery on Venus.
Let's say biological origin is currently the most logical explanation. Of course, further exploration using probes and other methods is likely to follow to confirm or refute this hypothesis.

As has already been proven, life on Earth flourishes even in the physical and chemical extremes that until recently were thought to be completely lifeless. Accordingly, I think the discovery of microbiological life in the higher atmosphere of Venus is not so unthinkable. Let's just remember that Venus in its history was a much more comfortable environment for life similar to that on our planet. It is possible that certain life forms (if they ever existed) have adapted over time to the extreme conditions as they are today.

I expect it will turn out to be a variant of the Corona Virus. Don't these viruses predate human life.

The atmospheric dynamics of Venus are totally different than Earth, and the concept of the greenhouse effect does not apply.

The atmosphere is very deep, such that on the surface the pressure is almost enough to liquify carbon dioxide. The temperature there is > 800F.

Any microbes that could possibly exist would be high in the atmosphere, where a suitable temperature and pressure existed for that form of life.

Venus is much closer to the sun than earth so its temperature is much higher that is why the animals have not yet become habitable scientists have found phosphine gas in the clouds on this closest planet to earth which has made them optimistic about the existence of life. But due to the high temperature venus may not be habitable now but life may have existed on its surface a long time ago the greenhouse effect has made the planet uninhabitable now the search is still ongoing.

I do believe as well. With those findings IIRC on Mars that there's water, that could be a sign of another life being.

And with this discovery on Venus, IIRC on my high school class, there is a possibility that microorganisms can live on heat.

PS: I'm not good in science.

But this topic is interesting!

When a chemical reaction or process resulting in an end product is not known, it would be unwise to suggest that life is the cause, simply because that is a cause we know of on Earth.



...It is also found in Jupiter's turbulent atmosphere, where it forms in the planet's hot interior and reacts with other compounds in the upper atmosphere.[16] The abiotic synthesis of phosphine takes enormous amounts of energy, such as in the planet-sized convective storms of gas giants.[17]
Phosphine has also been detected in the atmosphere of Venus, where its origin is currently unexplained. The paper announcing the discovery suggests that the phosphine "could originate from unknown photochemistry or geochemistry, or, by analogy with biological production of PH3 on Earth, from the presence of life".[18][19][20] Venus lacks the high temperatures and pressures to form phosphine the way gas giants such as Jupiter do, requiring an alternative explanation for its presence.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphine

this may be the first sign of other life that appears to exist beyond earth...

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btw, I believe there is another life beyond the earth but our technology is still not able to reach them. I have the principle that in this vast solar system it is not possible only on earth to have life.

According to The Guardian, scientists believe the discovery of a rare gas in the clouds of Venus could indicate signs of microbial life on the planet.

source: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/14/scientists-find-gas-linked-to-life-in-atmosphere-of-venus

What do you think? Could this be the first evidence of extraterrestrial life?