Topic: Second wave of Covid-19 in Europe, Lockdown? Is this possible? (Read 511 times)

The problem with "news" is the very nature of it. So much misrepresentation and selectivity with the figures we see. I can see personally how many more of my close friends have tested positive this time around. This is something we definitely need to respect. I really hope ALL countries vaccinations programs go as planned and we can avoid more lockdowns later in the year.

The lockdown is possible because many are yet to be vaccinated. Now news is spreading that the second wave of Covid19 is more serious than the first one.

Implement is a very soft term when it comes to the UK gov, although written into law, from first hand experience (key worker) people are so fed up with the government guessing and not taking responsibilty that the new "laws" are at best, suggestions, beings loosely followed by less than 2/3rds of people.

I was looking at mathematical models during the first wave and they suggest even with ~10% non compliance yhe whole system will fail

Its horrendous

I’ve got good friends there in Europe, especially United Kingdom. I know how it feels to live there right now, enduring the lockdown. As what I have seen on Youtube, there is a possibility that the lockdown would last until March because the new COVID strain is out of control.

I live in the Philippines. I’ve endured not going out of the house for 2 months due to lockdown plus in contact with my mom who was exposed to a suspected COVID case (which is our neighbor). Every city or province are classified into different tiers. Only a handful of cities and provinces are under general community quarantine, which my hometown and the rest are under much lesser modified general community quarantine (lowest tier) because of the decrease of daily COVID cases and more recoveries on the way.

I remember that time during September 8th to 30th, my hometown city was one of the few cities in the Philippines that is under the second strictest quarantine level (modified enhanced community quarantine) because our daily cases have increased rapidly. Public transportation (taxis, jeepneys, tricycles, etc.) is prohibited, so I had no choice but to buy a small bike in order to buy essential goods (I have an essential ID where I am allowed to go out). It was hard that time (the hardest one was between March to May where I can’t go out and doesn’t have essential ID).

For now, we can’t be complacent yet. Although the Philippines had learned their lesson, we should always obey and follow minimum health standards such as wearing of face mask and face shields, social distance, proper handwashing, no mass gatherings, etc.

I’m praying for Europe, especially United Kingdom. This is just temporary, bad times will pass.

I would like to mention, for Europe, that we are no longer talking about the 2nd wave of corona virus but about the 3rd one. Living in southern Europe in my country we are in lock down and wear masks wherever we go even when walking on the street. There are strict measures where anything related to catering or entertainment has a suspension and most stores operate with the method of click away except super markets and pharmacies. Traffic is prohibited after 2100 till 0500 so I can't imagine what other more strict measures our government would take in order to reduce corona virus spreading. 

I think a lot of western Govs have been appalling in their response to this problem. I use the word *Response* purposely because everything seems to be a reaction.
We needed to be proactive.
We let things get to level 5 then acted then it went back to level 2.
Next time we allowed things to go to level 6 before we reacted, things got slightly better.
Open the gates now were at level 8 and were going back to the method we used first time around.

[UK]

We really need to take a look at ourselves.

Yet China managed somehow to take Covid-19 distribution under control. It all started from Wuhan, China and the whole World read shocking daily news. And now, they disappeared from the news. It even took me some time to find how things are going there right now.
I've seen on the TV how strict rules were during lockdown there. You can get a sentence just for leaving house, and it will be more hard if it turns out that you infected someone. So I think it is possible to control humans.

Humans are the hardest thing to control nobody take things serious until something happens to them, this is one of the deadest viruses in our existence and we are given simple instructions to wear a mask and, physical distance while in public places and wash hands regularly. The Europeans and Africans should be ready for second lolockdow because that seemed to be the only solution to track the virus while we wait for the vaccines

In my city from March 2020 to today, all people indoors and in transport wear masks.
On the street we walk without masks, but we try to keep the distance.

Not only in European countries but also on those countries with people with don't have much discipline and not following strict isolations. They still do gatherings despite the risk of having a covid in such a manner. The main problem here is absolutely the cooperation and compliance of every person regardless of what country you lived in.

There will be second wave, because first wave showed how partly effective it was. Until people start to follow preventive rules and obey it is no use to run lockdowns. People will still find ways to sneak or cheat the rules. Even wearing masks wont help. The main reasons covid is not cured right now are stupidity of people and stupidly organized work.

How many times times I see 10-15 people walking together, then they put on masks and enter the shop. Why not wear masks all the time?

Our government limited trade of some goods on weekends (you can buy only food on Saturday and Sunday, while other departments are closed). Their idea was to limit the number of visitors in shops. Guess what I saw on Friday evening (pictures from Facebook) - queues to cash desk. People were bulking and not following 2m rule. There was a guy a cant forgot - he was standing in long queue (where he spent minimum 15-20min) just to buy Fanta and potato chips. Can you imagine? That idiot can not survive without them and spend minimum half an hour in the shop...

Some shelves with goods were crossed with lines - for example you cant buy deodorant on weekends, because it is not food and a item of urgent necessity. The idea was to prevent virus spread with hand-to-hand contact (people take item, look on it, put it back). The cashier wont sell it to you. But you can take them and go to self-service cash desk...

This is the major problem of the European countries they don't keep to rules especially in Italy were the virus was almost out of control because of the high level of ignorance. You are given simple instructions to wear a mask and keep a distance to stay alive yet some persons thought it was political and refused to obey and still have the guts to blame the government. The Asians were able to control the virus at the early stages because they obeyed all the preventive measures. It's high time the European countries stop playing politics and start imposing rules on her citizens. I see second lockdown incoming worldwide

I am not sure about other countries but in Spain, the country I live in, face masks are mandatory since Summer, and I don't think we are the only European country where this happens. About if it is more safe or not, couldn't tell you, I'm not an expert on this topic.



I suppose it is different when a natural catastrophe happens and no one was able to predict, compared to a virus that can be handled, or at least try. Apart from that, Coronavirus is global, pandemic, while bursting of dams in China is local news, though catastrophic.

It always happens that the media inflates the news, not always evenly: just like the case where a little boy disappears or dies and it is the main news for one or two months, while thousands of little boys die every day. But media is based on people's interest, they show that sells, and coronavirus sells. It doesn't mean it is not important news per se, hospitals in my country got flooded a few months ago and people died from other diseases because there was no room nor personnel to care about them. Nothing is black or white.

Given that the virus seems to have  been detected in a couple of European countries before it was detected in China, it would seem that the virus was created at an international level.

We don't wear face masks in Europe because they do nothing to protect people, and they increase the possibility of reinfection and extend the period required for recovery. They also raise the possibility of a virus storm, and all the complications that can bring on. Why should one risk the transfer of infection to the eyes rather than expelling viable virus particles. That is certainly happening.

It is all to do will basic health, and not human freedoms. The freedom issue is introduced solely to discredit those who are aware of the truth.

It is a constant source of amazement to me that such a minor virus can have been elevated to create so much fear and economic misery. More people died from the bursting of dams in China than from the Corona virus, and that includes those who died from the co-morbidities.

xenon131, if we do not go into conspiracy theories that the virus was made in China and that they already had everything ready to fight it successfully - then it is more than evident that communism is very effective when it comes to discipline. Of course, this discipline stems from the fear for life and the suffering to which those who do not act in accordance with the commandments are exposed.

On the other hand, some Western democracies have trouble getting people to wear masks at all - and some are protesting because they say it violates their human freedoms. Keeping these freedoms has led the EU to face an absolute state of chaos when it comes to the virus in the second wave, so now all hopes are on vaccines that again cannot be said to be truly safe, especially in the long run.

I think it's not only Europeans who lack discipline but also other developing countries such as Asia and Latin America...
I saw on the news that the lockdown this time was not strict, it said it was a 'half lockdown' on Europe and closed businesses is only that could potentially create a crowd. Hope the vaccine will be fixed quickly.

In course of this pandemic, lockdown became the last resort as it offered one of the best ways of controlling the spread but it's effect on the economy made it a strategy only sort out for when the need for a lockdown is just inevitable. Europe seems to be topping the charts in the second wave of the pandemic and as such, lockdown has already been implemented for a week sometime last month and then, only essential service centers were allowed to offer their services.
This in turn pose a great difficulty for petty and small scale business owners. This is just a way of ensuring that a total lockdown is not resulted not because it's not effective but, to avoid a total lockdown as best as possible.

On the second wave Europe reacts with more strict rules during emergency situation, but not with lockdown (I mean like total lockdown, that one that was in Chine in the beginning for example). Even though that there was announce that "Pfizer’s Early Data Shows Vaccine Is More Than 90% Effective" (announced right after US elections end. Do you think this is connected?), due to lack of strict discipline Europeans will still be under the risk for months..

In addition to all that the LTU_btc has written, I would add that China is ruled by a discipline that is difficult for the West to understand - and this mainly stems from the fact that the Communist Party does not seek consensus, does not ask for opinions but acts very quickly and efficiently. A few days ago I saw a video of nightlife at the epicenter of the infection (Wuhan) and people live quite normally as if nothing had happened. Testing is key, and Western countries test only those who have symptoms - asymptomatic carriers spread the virus without even knowing they are infected.

https://www.france24.com/en/video/20201102-life-back-to-normal-in-wuhan-once-the-disease-epicentre

Don't know if that's true but rumors are if coronovirus gets into the body it will last there forever like HIV, no cure possible. The things are aggravated by mutation, the Norway case with minks prove that. If all that is true, humanity will have to adapt to new realities or  move to Mars together  with Musk.

This is one article which explains how they managed to beat virus:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-china-back-to-normal-us-europe-struggle-2020-10
One thing is intensive testing. Now when they find some infected people in certain city, then they test all people living in that city. And when it comes to China, we're talking about millions living in every city.
Another thing is control of people, what let them to track contacts very well. When you want to enter shop, office or other public places, you must generate green QR codfe using app on your phone. If you get yellow or red, you can't enter because it means that you had close contact with infected person and you must go into isolation:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-coronavirus-health-code-qr
There is some more countries which are doing very well and have just 1-2 daily new cases, like Vietnam, Taiwan, New Zealand. Taiwan have just less than 600 total cases what is impressive

Meanwhile China has around 30 cases per day. Do they have secret weapon in fighting against Covid-19? It's a bit strange  for me that disease originated   from China is actually stopped in this country. Either they have better discipline to follow the rules or have already found countermeasures against virus. Where is the truth?

I just read in the local newspaper that the situation in Poland is so bad that patients wait up to 15 hours for admission to the hospital, and that they are starting to turn stadiums into hospitals.  Problem is actually the lack of professional medical staff who should take care of such patients.

As the entire health care system focuses on Covid-19 patients, the number of those unable to get help for their medical problems is increasing every day. Although the virus takes lives, those who die from various forms of cancer, heart disease and other serious conditions are far greater and will only increase. This means that the virus also kills indirectly because it does not allow the health system to function.


I have already written in one thread that I would exclude those who do not adhere to the regulations and intentionally spread the virus from health care. You want to live as if nothing is happening, you don't want to wear a mask and disinfect your hands - no problem, when you get sick stay at home and heal yourself.

But everyone is frightening us that covid-19 is a very dangerous disease in which a person can't even take care of himself as soon as he dies. I don't know where he is going. They will be eliminated and will be replaced by rbots

Because the population of those countries are following the strict measures. For instance Belgium, we've got measures, but as a Belgian, I know that most of the population isn't following this strictly.

So measures will only work if the following-up is ok.

Seems that more and more countries are going into lockdown. I'm not sure that's right decision. Yeah, lockdown will reduce spread of virus, but won't stop it. And I'm not sure that lockdown is solution. Virus is here to stay and we should learn how to live with it. We can't live in lockdown until vaccine will be made. There is no guarantee that safe, working and effective vaccine will be found after all. Also, emotional health of people is another big problem. People are tired to live in uncertainty when you don't know what will happen tomorrow, all these restrictions, fears and etc. I'm not even talking about economy killed by complete lockdowns.
During first lockdown in country between March and end of May there was little over 1000 total cases, but everything was closed and people were in fear. Now we having 1000 DAILY cases, but most people aren't in panic and trying to live normal life. But seems that ur government are planning to make anther lockdown :/...
There is some countries which are handling Covid-19 very well and there is no second wave - Australia, New Zealand, China.
Also, interesting thing from Slovakia, they are testing entire population of country:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54747022
I thought that such intensive testing isn't possible. Interesting what results it will give and maybe other countries will follow this example.

most countries will 100% go into lockdown if they are within 2 weeks of having majority of their hospitals overflow with patients. they 100% need to prevent that

some countries will try to find the balance of some social activity but not enough to cause a surge in cases per week turning up to hospital

if people actually respected social distancing and wearing a mask. the percentage of infections vs hospitalisations can change in favour of having more infections acceptable with low hospitalisation. meaning alot more time before hospitals start to fill up

a few silly idiots think they need to organise close contact gatherings on-mass and pass infection with high dose. but this is definitely a bad tactic that results in more hospitalisations quickly

put it this way. a community with no respect for personal space, no protections would have 100 infected and 80 with mild symptoms and 40 with severe symptoms
but respect personal space, wear protection them 100 infected would be 40 mild 20 with severe
but respect personal space, limit gatherings to under 20. . 20 infected would be 5 mild and 2 severe

as you can see the difference of 40 severe vs 2 severe means 20x less pressure on hospitals thus less chance of ever overloading hospitals with patients

..
basically dont expect football stadiums to have thousands of audiences anytime soon. stick to watching it on TV and keep safe

As a resident of The Netherlands I can say there's probably a grim winter ahead of us, and this is probably the case in most other European countries as well. There's a partial lockdown here currently; people still go to school and work, but cafes and restaurants are closed and remain so until at least december. Unemployment is rising, businesses drop like flies, and unrest is on the increase in society. With few places to go to and with wet and dark weather outside, the decline of mental health is certainly a concern. A total lockdown could follow in the coming weeks, especially if rate of infections doesn't go down quickly.

I can only say that this second wave is so strong that it cannot be compared at all with the first. The numbers are frightening and most countries have x10 more infected than in the first wave, and winter has not even begun. Some countries have already introduced lockdown (Slovenia, Ireland, Wales ...), and I think that if this continues, there will be no other option but to combat the virus in this way. A few days ago, the German Chancellor stated in a closed meeting that the situation is spiraling out of control, and that is not far from the truth.

The EU will pay dearly for relaxing completely in the summer months, now many see that it was a big mistake.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/17/covid-19-restrictions-tighten-further-in-europe-amid-second-wave-of-infections

This is entirely predictable. Covid is a ;flu type virus, and based on many decades of information, infections tend to rise in the winter period. This follows the summer when most people are  building immunity by getting out in the sun, and eating prawns and other immune boosting foods. Of course the in the severity of Covid meant that the government had to take steps to reduce this immunity building, and so they introduced the lockdowns and other measures to help the virus spread later. They have also increased testing by about 30x, and the surprise is that the reports of the spreading of immunity ( some call this infection) is not higher, Some virologists are estimating that 6%-80% of the UK population has developed natural immunity. The good news is that ICU admissions and Covid related deaths are down, despite the reported rise in the spread of immunity.

People are starting to realise how weak this virus is, and to rebel against the measures designed to help the bankers and the globalists, and it could well lead to a major shift in political power with any luck.

I am not a citizen of Europe but in case that the second wave of Co-vid 19 appears, locking down the most affected city or region is necessary. There are too many deaths already and our health sector always do their job to eliminate the spread of the virus. Now that we're having the second wave of this harmful virus, for sure, government will not hesitate to execute their plans regarding Co-vid 19.

The recent resurgence of coronavirus has been a rather disturbing news for citizens of the world following the many set backs and inconveniences the first wave surfaced with and with government of nations not fully prepared, vaccines still yet to be prepared, everyone is on the look out on the actionable activities that would be set in motion to control it's spread.
Well, I may not be from Europe but, the possibility of a further lockdown is hardly going to be the active measure of this second wave. Following the fact that, a lot has been taken from almost all the economies of the world to finance a lot of programed that kept the pandemic in check. My best guess is going to be limited movement and mandatory wearing of nose mask just as Italy has done.

Corona figures and measures differ per country in Europe. The Corona figures, as also the measures, in the Netherlands have increased again. And if the figures keep increasing the measures will increase also. But I don't know how far the situation in the Netherlands can be compared to that in Brasil.

Hello guys,
So, I'm from Brazil and one thing that is worrying me a lot today is about a possible second wave of coronavirus in Europe.

I am currently seeing in some news reports the huge increase that is happening of people being infected with Coronavirus in several countries in Europe, and some people speak of Lockdown in Europe.
In Brazil, we are still in the "first wave", we have many infected, but we are returning with our activities, even if slowly.

I would like to know from you users who live in Europe, what is the real situation in Europe? Is a new lockdown possible? Second wave?

Thank you!