Seed phrase same as secret key? | Bitcointalksearch.org

HCP

legendary

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Quote from: craZyLovE0916 on August 05, 2017, 03:59:48 PM

You should always, always control your secret key. A seed is only meant to recover your Bitcoin in the case you forget your wallet password. If you have your secret key you can access your Bitcoin anytime, anywhere whereas the seed only works for the particular wallet client you are using. Makes sense?

That isn't necessarily true... there is some commonality between wallets... like Breadwallet, Simple Bitcoin Wallet and MultiBitHD all used the same Derivation Path (m/0')... Most hardware wallets are all standardised on m/44'/0'/0'... and even some software wallets like Mycelium use it as well... and now that Electrum supports custom Derivation Paths when importing BIP39 seed words, it can import from pretty much any wallet.

Also, as the method for converting Seed words into private keys is public information, there are plenty of tools (like: https://iancoleman.github.io/bip39/) that can convert your seed to private keys using any derivation path... So you do have options.

Private Keys are derived from the seed... so if you have the seed, you can always get your private keys... it might just take a little work Wink

craZyLovE0916

sr. member

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Quote from: kagemand on July 30, 2017, 03:38:17 PM

Hello,
I successfully imported my wallet from blockchain.info to Electrum using the 12-word seed phrase provided by Blockchains online wallet.
I moved to Electrum to ensure I can get my BCC after 1th Aug.
Now my question is: do I need to do anything else to get the secret keys, or can I use my seed phrase to get my BCC? I can successfully send and receive coins with the seed phrase, so I would assume it is enough to access the secret keys also?
Thank you in advance

You should always, always control your secret key. A seed is only meant to recover your Bitcoin in the case you forget your wallet password. If you have your secret key you can access your Bitcoin anytime, anywhere whereas the seed only works for the particular wallet client you are using. Makes sense?

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: Kemarit on July 31, 2017, 10:56:10 PM

Quote from: jackg on July 31, 2017, 06:37:25 PM

Quote from: HCP on July 31, 2017, 06:19:05 PM

Quote from: jackg on July 31, 2017, 10:45:06 AM

Ah, thanks HCP. I assumed they'd both work of the same software (although bip91 has been implemented to make both networks replay-proof).
It's probably a good idea to try to empty private keys before putting them into another software (especially if the developer isn't known - if ThomasV is not the producer of electrum cash).

Yes, definitely... it is even recommended by ThomasV in his post about Electrum and BCC:

Quote from: https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

BCC wallets will require you to import your seed or your private keys, which can be exported from Electrum. Doing so will expose all your Bitcoin funds associated with that seed to the BCC wallet you decide to use.

Therefore, *after* the BCC fork, but *before* you enter a seed or private key in a BCC wallet, you should move all your funds to a new Electrum wallet, with a new seed. You will still be able to use the old seed or private key with BCC, because BCC has replay protection. Wait until your funds are confirmed in your new Bitcoin wallet, before you enter the old private key in a BCC wallet. This will protect your BTC funds from rogue/untrusted software.

I got confused enough by this that I just spread all of my coins across a few exchanges that said they will credit me my Bitcoin. I think this was probably the best option to do.

I can also say that if you look in the electrum subsecion or my recent posts to find it then you'll see that the software (electrum cash/electron cash) is actually a virus (just FYI).

Hmm. Thanks for the notification. I'm using a Electrum wallet but I haven't tried to claim my "free" BCC because I'm afraid that it may be a virus that will steal your seeds or private keys. In their website, they specifically not endorsing it and even put like advise about the risk.

"Electron Cash" is a fork of Electrum for Bitcoin Cash. Electron Cash
is not endorsed by Electrum. It is open source, and binaries
(executables files) are available for Windows, OSX and
Android. However, when you run binaries instead of source code, you
have no guarantee that they match the source code. This is why wallet
binaries are usually signed by developers. A digital signature engages
the responsability of the person who signs."

https://electrum.org/bcc2.txt

Can you point you the source of Electron Cash is a virus/malware though?

What do you mean by spreading your coins across exchanges? Did you do it just to claim your free BCC?

Yes exactly. I spread it across a few different sites so there shouldn't be much risk.
I sent my transactions about half an hour before they all closed (I split the coins between yobit, hashnest and freebitco.in - as freebitco.in have a high amount of coins, I thought it'd be a good idea to place the bulk of those coins there. (Although, now I don't have access to them for a few hours - but it seemed a better idea than downloading more software).

Kemarit

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Activity: 3080

Merit: 1353

Quote from: jackg on July 31, 2017, 06:37:25 PM

Quote from: HCP on July 31, 2017, 06:19:05 PM

Quote from: jackg on July 31, 2017, 10:45:06 AM

Ah, thanks HCP. I assumed they'd both work of the same software (although bip91 has been implemented to make both networks replay-proof).
It's probably a good idea to try to empty private keys before putting them into another software (especially if the developer isn't known - if ThomasV is not the producer of electrum cash).

Yes, definitely... it is even recommended by ThomasV in his post about Electrum and BCC:

Quote from: https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

BCC wallets will require you to import your seed or your private keys, which can be exported from Electrum. Doing so will expose all your Bitcoin funds associated with that seed to the BCC wallet you decide to use.

Therefore, *after* the BCC fork, but *before* you enter a seed or private key in a BCC wallet, you should move all your funds to a new Electrum wallet, with a new seed. You will still be able to use the old seed or private key with BCC, because BCC has replay protection. Wait until your funds are confirmed in your new Bitcoin wallet, before you enter the old private key in a BCC wallet. This will protect your BTC funds from rogue/untrusted software.

I got confused enough by this that I just spread all of my coins across a few exchanges that said they will credit me my Bitcoin. I think this was probably the best option to do.

I can also say that if you look in the electrum subsecion or my recent posts to find it then you'll see that the software (electrum cash/electron cash) is actually a virus (just FYI).

Hmm. Thanks for the notification. I'm using a Electrum wallet but I haven't tried to claim my "free" BCC because I'm afraid that it may be a virus that will steal your seeds or private keys. In their website, they specifically not endorsing it and even put like advise about the risk.

"Electron Cash" is a fork of Electrum for Bitcoin Cash. Electron Cash
is not endorsed by Electrum. It is open source, and binaries
(executables files) are available for Windows, OSX and
Android. However, when you run binaries instead of source code, you
have no guarantee that they match the source code. This is why wallet
binaries are usually signed by developers. A digital signature engages
the responsability of the person who signs."

https://electrum.org/bcc2.txt

Can you point you the source of Electron Cash is a virus/malware though?

What do you mean by spreading your coins across exchanges? Did you do it just to claim your free BCC?

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: HCP on July 31, 2017, 06:19:05 PM

Quote from: jackg on July 31, 2017, 10:45:06 AM

Ah, thanks HCP. I assumed they'd both work of the same software (although bip91 has been implemented to make both networks replay-proof).
It's probably a good idea to try to empty private keys before putting them into another software (especially if the developer isn't known - if ThomasV is not the producer of electrum cash).

Yes, definitely... it is even recommended by ThomasV in his post about Electrum and BCC:

Quote from: https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

BCC wallets will require you to import your seed or your private keys, which can be exported from Electrum. Doing so will expose all your Bitcoin funds associated with that seed to the BCC wallet you decide to use.

Therefore, *after* the BCC fork, but *before* you enter a seed or private key in a BCC wallet, you should move all your funds to a new Electrum wallet, with a new seed. You will still be able to use the old seed or private key with BCC, because BCC has replay protection. Wait until your funds are confirmed in your new Bitcoin wallet, before you enter the old private key in a BCC wallet. This will protect your BTC funds from rogue/untrusted software.

I got confused enough by this that I just spread all of my coins across a few exchanges that said they will credit me my Bitcoin. I think this was probably the best option to do.

I can also say that if you look in the electrum subsecion or my recent posts to find it then you'll see that the software (electrum cash/electron cash) is actually a virus (just FYI).

HCP

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 4361

Quote from: jackg on July 31, 2017, 10:45:06 AM

Ah, thanks HCP. I assumed they'd both work of the same software (although bip91 has been implemented to make both networks replay-proof).
It's probably a good idea to try to empty private keys before putting them into another software (especially if the developer isn't known - if ThomasV is not the producer of electrum cash).

Yes, definitely... it is even recommended by ThomasV in his post about Electrum and BCC:

Quote from: https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

BCC wallets will require you to import your seed or your private keys, which can be exported from Electrum. Doing so will expose all your Bitcoin funds associated with that seed to the BCC wallet you decide to use.

Therefore, *after* the BCC fork, but *before* you enter a seed or private key in a BCC wallet, you should move all your funds to a new Electrum wallet, with a new seed. You will still be able to use the old seed or private key with BCC, because BCC has replay protection. Wait until your funds are confirmed in your new Bitcoin wallet, before you enter the old private key in a BCC wallet. This will protect your BTC funds from rogue/untrusted software.

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: HCP on July 30, 2017, 11:10:31 PM

Quote from: jackg on July 30, 2017, 03:52:44 PM

You do not need to access your secret keys (private keys) to get your bcc.
You just need to do a different configuration of electrum in order to connect to a BCC node instead of a BTC node in order to get access to your BCC wallet.

This is no longer the case since BCC implemented two-way replay protection. BTC transactions will not be valid on BCC network... and BCC transactions will not be valid on BTC network. ThomasV is not implementing BCC support in Electrum at this time (https://electrum.org/bcc.txt)

If you want to transact BCC, you WILL need to export your private keys into a BCC specific wallet (ref: https://www.bitcoincash.org/ and look at "wallets"). I've seen references to an "Electrum Cash" (possibly renamed to "Electron Cash") wallet which looks to be a fork of Electrum that is intended to work with Bitcoin Cash...

Ah, thanks HCP. I assumed they'd both work of the same software (although bip91 has been implemented to make both networks replay-proof).
It's probably a good idea to try to empty private keys before putting them into another software (especially if the developer isn't known - if ThomasV is not the producer of electrum cash).

HCP

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 4361

Quote from: Thirdspace on July 31, 2017, 04:33:15 AM

...as for transaction in the case as you said (@HCP),
then creating signed raw tx with BTC wallet and pushing it to BCC network wouldn't work? am I right?
I was hoping by pushing raw tx would at least reduce the exposure of my priv key

That's correct... you cannot create a signed transaction for BTC and then broadcast it on BCC network. That is exactly what the replay protection is designed to achieve.

You WILL need a BCC compatible wallet to be able to create BCC transactions after the fork.

Thirdspace

hero member

Activity: 1232

Merit: 738

Mixing reinvented for your privacy | chipmixer.com

Quote from: HCP on July 30, 2017, 11:10:31 PM

Quote from: jackg on July 30, 2017, 03:52:44 PM

You do not need to access your secret keys (private keys) to get your bcc.
You just need to do a different configuration of electrum in order to connect to a BCC node instead of a BTC node in order to get access to your BCC wallet.

This is no longer the case since BCC implemented two-way replay protection. BTC transactions will not be valid on BCC network... and BCC transactions will not be valid on BTC network. ThomasV is not implementing BCC support in Electrum at this time (https://electrum.org/bcc.txt)

If you want to transact BCC, you WILL need to export your private keys into a BCC specific wallet (ref: https://www.bitcoincash.org/ and look at "wallets"). I've seen references to an "Electrum Cash" (possibly renamed to "Electron Cash") wallet which looks to be a fork of Electrum that is intended to work with Bitcoin Cash...

I was thinking the same too, I never heard electrum supporting BCC
but I read somewhere, there is a fork of electrum called electrumcash for BCC written by someone else
as for transaction in the case as you said (@HCP),
then creating signed raw tx with BTC wallet and pushing it to BCC network wouldn't work? am I right?
I was hoping by pushing raw tx would at least reduce the exposure of my priv key

HCP

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 4361

Quote from: jackg on July 30, 2017, 03:52:44 PM

You do not need to access your secret keys (private keys) to get your bcc.
You just need to do a different configuration of electrum in order to connect to a BCC node instead of a BTC node in order to get access to your BCC wallet.

This is no longer the case since BCC implemented two-way replay protection. BTC transactions will not be valid on BCC network... and BCC transactions will not be valid on BTC network. ThomasV is not implementing BCC support in Electrum at this time (https://electrum.org/bcc.txt)

If you want to transact BCC, you WILL need to export your private keys into a BCC specific wallet (ref: https://www.bitcoincash.org/ and look at "wallets"). I've seen references to an "Electrum Cash" (possibly renamed to "Electron Cash") wallet which looks to be a fork of Electrum that is intended to work with Bitcoin Cash...

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: TheReamer on July 30, 2017, 05:58:58 PM

Quote from: kagemand on July 30, 2017, 04:29:51 PM

All right thank you very much Grin

I am much more content with this now.

Be aware you should still keep your blockchain account safe, you imported it to electrum wallet now it can be accessed both from blockchain account and electrum wallet so your attack surface doubled basically

Yes that's definitely advisable. Unless there's a way to deactivate/delete your blockchain account (you can always undo this by redeaming the seed again on their site - the 12 word phrase).

TheReamer

full member

Activity: 182

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Quote from: kagemand on July 30, 2017, 04:29:51 PM

All right thank you very much Grin

I am much more content with this now.

Be aware you should still keep your blockchain account safe, you imported it to electrum wallet now it can be accessed both from blockchain account and electrum wallet so your attack surface doubled basically

kagemand

newbie

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All right thank you very much Grin

I am much more content with this now.

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: kagemand on July 30, 2017, 03:38:17 PM

Hello,
I successfully imported my wallet from blockchain.info to Electrum using the 12-word seed phrase provided by Blockchains online wallet.
I moved to Electrum to ensure I can get my BCC after 1th Aug.
Now my question is: do I need to do anything else to get the secret keys, or can I use my seed phrase to get my BCC? I can successfully send and receive coins with the seed phrase, so I would assume it is enough to access the secret keys also?
Thank you in advance

You do not need to access your secret keys (private keys) to get your bcc.
You just need to do a different configuration of electrum in order to connect to a BCC node instead of a BTC node in order to get access to your BCC wallet.
It is considered a good idea to use two different wallets for this to happen (wallet folders in different locations), but that can be done after the 1st of august.
I'm sure on that date as well, someone will place a guide here and in the electrum subsection to show you how to unlock your BCC. All you have to do at the moment is to ensure you have access to your private keys and all the funds you want are there.

The seed is used to generate private keys, if you get the seed you can generate all of your private keys.

kagemand

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

Hello,
I successfully imported my wallet from blockchain.info to Electrum using the 12-word seed phrase provided by Blockchains online wallet.
I moved to Electrum to ensure I can get my BCC after 1th Aug.
Now my question is: do I need to do anything else to get the secret keys, or can I use my seed phrase to get my BCC? I can successfully send and receive coins with the seed phrase, so I would assume it is enough to access the secret keys also?
Thank you in advance

Topic: Seed phrase same as secret key? (Read 1881 times)