Seeking 10-15 BTC loan, will pay back principal + 15% WITHIN 100 days

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

Quote from: justanickname on March 05, 2014, 06:17:43 AM

Why not borrow the money from a bank?
You would have to pay much less than 15% in 100 days
Is this because you are afraid the BTC price go down and your earnings can't cover the bank loan?
If this is the case than I can understand, but It can also go the other way,
I lend you and Bitfinex suddenly shutters or something and BTC triple it's value. In this case you lost your investment and your collateral can't cover my loan.

Well, the simple answer is because banks do not issue loans denominated in BTC Wink

And yes, the only real risk of loss in this case is the sudden shuttering of Bitfinex. I understand that, in light of recent events, this seems a realer possibility than it may have done a month ago, but I truly believe that due diligence is the key and that MtGox, for instance, had shown plenty of warning signs regarding the risk of holding funds there. I chose Bitfinex precisely because it is the intersection of a quality trading platform and apparent robustness. For instance, Bitfinex provides liquidity by creating a market of lenders and borrowers instead of the bucketshop-like practices of past brokerages like Bitcoinica.

justanickname

full member

Activity: 157

Merit: 100

Why not borrow the money from a bank?
You would have to pay much less than 15% in 100 days
Is this because you are afraid the BTC price go down and your earnings can't cover the bank loan?
If this is the case than I can understand, but It can also go the other way,
I lend you and Bitfinex suddenly shutters or something and BTC triple it's value. In this case you lost your investment and your collateral can't cover my loan.

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

Quote from: giletto on March 04, 2014, 09:30:32 AM

Ah ok, then i was missunderstand you.

So, i lending you 10 BTC, and in 100 day you will give me 11.5 BTC, right?

And how about a contrastable collateral?

That is correct.

I am not currently holding any altcoin; however, as mentioned in the OP, I can demonstrate ownership of assets equal to the value of the principal.

giletto

sr. member

Activity: 812

Merit: 250

Ah ok, then i was missunderstand you.

So, i lending you 10 BTC, and in 100 day you will give me 11.5 BTC, right?

And how about a contrastable collateral?

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

Quote from: giletto on March 04, 2014, 02:25:03 AM

Why anywho should do this, instead of buy coins and hold? The Bitcoin price within the 100 day will raise sure more then 20-50%...

Since the loan is denominated in BTC, the lender would enjoy the same value gains as holding in addition to the 15% interest in the event of a BTCUSD price increase.

giletto

sr. member

Activity: 812

Merit: 250

15% for 100 day Bitcoin lending without collateral?

Why anywho should do this, instead of buy coins and hold? The Bitcoin price within the 100 day will raise sure more then 20-50%...

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

Quote from: oda.krell on February 26, 2014, 10:45:01 AM

You're arepo from the speculation subforum, right?. Yeah, I'd trust you in principle, to give you that loan, but I don't see exactly the conditions being that favorable. Didn't check bitfinex lately, but I should be able to get a similar interest there, with the counterparty risk being lower even -- like I said, I'd trust you, but I probably trust bitfinex a bit more even

(btw, what happened to your TA posts? I always enjoyed them quite a bit. if you ever start a newsletter, make sure to post about it in the speculation forum, I'd sign up for it if the price isn't too outrageous)

Hello, O.K, yes that is me. It's nice to see a familiar face over here on the lending subforum.

The highest interest rates for lending BTC at Bitfinex are currently 0.066% daily, which comes out to about 6.7% for a period of 100 days. It is understandable, considering the comparative counterparty risk, that I should offer significantly more interest. Estimates of my gains during the next 3 months suggest that I will be able to honor as much as 15% interest on this loan, which is more than twice what is currently available on Bitfinex. Keeping in mind that I may be able to repay the principal + interest in a shorter amount of time, depending on price behavior, 15% interest is approximately equal to 3 times the available rates on Bitfinex for a period of 71 days. That is, if I am able to repay the loan + 15% interest in 71 days or less, the equivalent daily interest would be 3 times or greater that currently available at Bitfinex.

Is this a more attractive offer? I have also edited the title of the post to reflect this new offer.

Also, I unfortunately cannot maintain a presence on the forums 365 days a year because of other pressing responsibilities. My TA on the forums usually coincides with times when I have the opportunity to daytrade bitcoin, but for the months of February and March I have shifted my trading strategy to a longer-term position.

Funny that you should mention a newsletter, too, because I have recently been considering publishing something weekly for the month of March. Keep your eye on the speculation subforum, for I am sure to post there in that event. And of course, I appreciate your good words about my work. Wink

oda.krell

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1007

You're arepo from the speculation subforum, right?. Yeah, I'd trust you in principle, to give you that loan, but I don't see exactly the conditions being that favorable. Didn't check bitfinex lately, but I should be able to get a similar interest there, with the counterparty risk being lower even -- like I said, I'd trust you, but I probably trust bitfinex a bit more even

(btw, what happened to your TA posts? I always enjoyed them quite a bit. if you ever start a newsletter, make sure to post about it in the speculation forum, I'd sign up for it if the price isn't too outrageous)

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

Quote from: Justin00 on February 25, 2014, 09:45:05 AM

any reason you don't sell the items you dont *need* to raise the funds ?
sounds pretty fool proof from what you have said.. so shouldn't be any issue selling your shit and buying back better stuff when you make a profit ?

Not really feasible in this case because, like I said, this loan is not for a capital investment. In fact, since the funds will simply be parked at Bitfinex for the duration of the period and then returned, it would be an incredible hassle to find buyers for the various items and then go through the steps of either transferring fiat into the exchange, or purchasing a large amount of BTC with the fiat, simply to reverse the process within 100 days. Also, timing is very important in this case because the market moves quickly to minimize profitability. I'm certain that selling these assets and following the steps described above would take much longer than is necessary.

The only reason I even mentioned these assets is because I do not currently have altcoin for collateral, and felt it was appropriate at least to be able to demonstrate that I own assets in the same amount I am looking to borrow. However, again, as this is not a business venture or anything of the like, I do not anticipate the need to sell these assets in order to cover the loan, but of course I cannot claim that there is zero risk of loss (what if Bitfinex suddenly shutters, etc), only that the risk is very small. That being said, in the extremely unlikely case of partial or total loss, I can and will sell the assets to make good on the debt.

Justin00

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice

thinking about this and not really directed at OP but these threads in general...
a) borrowers might have money but not prepaired to use it (99% hasn't much money i'd suspect)
b) has items/collateral but not prepared to sell them to make there ideas profit.

soo if they are not willing to use their own money (or cant) nor are they willing to sell there crap... assuming someone lends and it all goes downhill, whos to say they will be willing to sell their crap to pay the person back ?

plus if someone mentions they have a car.... as if they would sell the car to pay someone back.
if they use the car to get to work their is 100% chance they will not sell the car...

Justin00

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

★YoBit.Net★ 350+ Coins Exchange & Dice

any reason you don't sell the items you dont *need* to raise the funds ?
sounds pretty fool proof from what you have said.. so shouldn't be any issue selling your shit and buying back better stuff when you make a profit ?

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

Quote from: KWH on February 25, 2014, 03:09:26 AM

That's a lot of coin to ask for with basically no collateral. Unless you're signing your car over as well as sending the other items to the lender or escrow agent before the loan is complete?

I understand that it is a large loan for basically no collateral. A brief investigation of my account history will corroborate that my time at these forums is largely devoted to market analysis and speculation, to moderate success. I am going out on a limb here, but I figured I would make the request for what it is worth.

Since this loan is for hedging purposes, it contrasts with most other loan requests on this subforum as comparatively low-risk, i.e. it is not a capital investment that requires a successful business plan or some other risky outcome to be made whole. The funds will not be spent or transferred, but merely used to hedge against a leveraged position on Bitfinex. I understand that there would have to be significant trust placed on me by the lender in order to be willing to make this loan, which is why I provided a list of the members of the forum with whom I have done business over the years.

I am also willing to negotiate the size of the loan if the offer seems attractive for a smaller amount. Any amount >5 BTC would provide significant risk reduction in my position, with the larger the amount the greater the offset risk, and with the range of 10-15 providing the best risk-reduction to capital ratio.

Thanks for considering the request.

KWH

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1045

In Collateral I Trust.

Quote from: arepo on February 25, 2014, 03:03:01 AM

I am seeking a loan for hedging purposes. I have been an active trader and general bitcoin enthusiast for a little more than 2 years now.

The funds will be used to hedge against a position that I currently am holding at Bitfinex. They will not be spent, or otherwise transferred, for any other purposes. Either my position makes profit, and the loan and interest can be repaid in full, or my position makes losses and the hedge will profit to cover the interest.

I do not currently own altcoin for collateral, but I can provide proof of ownership of a vehicle worth approximately $3500 as well as various household electronics (flat screen HDTV, gaming consoles, and desktop and laptop computers) worth approximately $4000.

Again, the funds will not be spent or transferred from the Bitfinex account, only used to hedge, therefore the risk of loss is very small.

I am very active on the speculation subforum and have done business with the following users, in which they paid in advance for price analysis reports and other market observations around the sum of 3 BTC without issue:

dandirk
hubbabubbabaker
PYaEe
bitly
karmic
wobber
ruski
TheRenix
bitrider
iron77
hybrid
Frozenlock
michaelGedi

I am willing to comply with any requests for personal documentation.

Since times of high price volatility are also times of large profitability for traders, I hope there is an investor who will help me reduce the risk in my position in return for mutual profits.

Also, I have not attempted to procure a loan from this subforum before, so please let me know what steps I can take to further adhere to the various precedents regarding this practice. I believe that the agreement I have outlined above is a fair offer that provides mutual benefit for both parties.

--Arepo

That's a lot of coin to ask for with basically no collateral. Unless you're signing your car over as well as sending the other items to the lender or escrow agent before the loan is complete?

arepo

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

this statement is false

I am seeking a loan for hedging purposes. I have been an active trader and general bitcoin enthusiast for a little more than 2 years now.

The funds will be used to hedge against a position that I currently am holding at Bitfinex. They will not be spent, or otherwise transferred, for any other purposes. Either my position makes profit, and the loan and interest can be repaid in full, or my position makes losses and the hedge will profit to cover the interest.

I do not currently own altcoin for collateral, but I can provide proof of ownership of a vehicle worth approximately $3500 as well as various household electronics (flat screen HDTV, gaming consoles, and desktop and laptop computers) worth approximately $4000.

Again, the funds will not be spent or transferred from the Bitfinex account, only used to hedge, therefore the risk of loss is very small.

I am open to negotiate both the interest and the repayment period. It is likely I will be able to repay this loan within a shorter timeframe.

I am very active on the speculation subforum and have done business with the following users, in which they paid in advance for price analysis reports and other market observations around the sum of 3 BTC without issue:

dandirk
hubbabubbabaker
PYaEe
bitly
karmic
wobber
ruski
TheRenix
bitrider
iron77
hybrid
Frozenlock
michaelGedi

I am willing to comply with any requests for personal documentation.

Since times of high price volatility are also times of large profitability for traders, I hope there is an investor who will help me reduce the risk in my position in return for mutual profits.

Also, I have not attempted to procure a loan from this subforum before, so please let me know what steps I can take to further adhere to the various precedents regarding this practice. I believe that the agreement I have outlined above is a fair offer that provides mutual benefit for both parties.

--Arepo

Topic: Seeking 10-15 BTC loan, will pay back principal + 15% WITHIN 100 days (Read 1085 times)