SegWit & Bitcoin price | Bitcointalksearch.org

pereira4

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Quote from: stevegee58 on March 04, 2018, 04:34:22 PM

Quote from: aso118 on March 04, 2018, 03:19:46 PM

Actually, segwit implementation isn't the reason for mempool being empty. There has been a drop in number of transactions using Bitcoin, and that is worrying. If the price has to increase, it has to be due to an increase in popularity, which will be accompanied by an increase in the number of transactions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/bitcoin-s-plunge-in-volume-stirs-questions-about-its-popularity

No, there's abundant evidence that Coinbase and other "heavy hitter" exchanges implemented transaction batching. The decrease in mempool and fees occurred in a very short period of time, just a few days.

Don't pay too much attention to the mainstream media on the subject of Bitcoin.

I believe it was also mostly Coinbase cluttering the entire mempool with their garbage, which is worrying. If a single entity can fill the mempool due inconpetence, we may have a problem.

The people that bring Ver's spam antics also have a point, it was a mixture of various things but mostly the lack of transaction batching.

Im sure segwit is helping too, 30% is quite a lot, but if anything it proves that it was mostly exchanges and spam rather than massive demand for block space (which ruins BCash's selling pitch as they claimed how it was all due demand.. but we already knew that there is no demand for bigger blocks already since they can't even fill 1MB blocks).

pooya87

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Quote from: aso118 on March 04, 2018, 03:19:46 PM

Quote from: hugeblack on February 28, 2018, 10:34:38 AM

Not so long ago, the bitcoin protocol was upgraded to increase block capacity "Segregated Witness or SegWit" "~~4 MB block size~~ 4000 WU limit" and the last version of Bitcoin Core "SegWit support is enabled by default" supported native SegWit format or Bech32 type.
as a result:
1. Mempool is empty. 2. 34% less fee. 3. improve merchant support.

Several companies dropped Bitcoin support over the high fees and transaction delays. If those are non-issues in the future, spending the world’s leading cryptocurrency will become easier again. Additionally, the Bitcoin Dominance Index has been on the rise as well. [1]

So Can SegWit Support Make Bitcoin Price Rise again? or SegWit can’t affect the price of the Bitcoin?

Source #1: https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/02/20/can-default-segwit-support-make-bitcoin-price-rise-even-higher/

Actually, segwit implementation isn't the reason for mempool being empty. There has been a drop in number of transactions using Bitcoin, and that is worrying. If the price has to increase, it has to be due to an increase in popularity, which will be accompanied by an increase in the number of transactions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/bitcoin-s-plunge-in-volume-stirs-questions-about-its-popularity

The advantage of Segwit is in the future - when the number of transactions increases again or when there is a spam attack.

that article is very misleading and is either written by someone who doesn't understand bitcoin, or someone who understands it very well but wants to spread misinformation.
it is using the big backlog which was mostly spam and the fact that it has dropped now with the price changes and claims the "usage" has dropped. the funny part is that the article is mentioning all the price swings. the big 70% drop and the big 50% rise afterwards,... and HUGE rise and falls like this are increasing the usage not decreasing it because with each swing there are always a lot more people who are moving funds around.

Diced90

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Of course segwit has played its part in bringing down the bitcoin fees and confirmation times which were a big problem not long ago, and because of this some key players dropped it because of its flaws but I think its ready to go mainstream and I think more can be done to make bitcoin become an everyday currency without the need of waiting for a transaction to be confirmed .

stevegee58

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Quote from: aso118 on March 04, 2018, 03:19:46 PM

Actually, segwit implementation isn't the reason for mempool being empty. There has been a drop in number of transactions using Bitcoin, and that is worrying. If the price has to increase, it has to be due to an increase in popularity, which will be accompanied by an increase in the number of transactions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/bitcoin-s-plunge-in-volume-stirs-questions-about-its-popularity

No, there's abundant evidence that Coinbase and other "heavy hitter" exchanges implemented transaction batching. The decrease in mempool and fees occurred in a very short period of time, just a few days.

Don't pay too much attention to the mainstream media on the subject of Bitcoin.

richardsNY

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Quote from: aso118 on March 04, 2018, 03:19:46 PM

The advantage of Segwit is in the future - when the number of transactions increases again or when there is a spam attack.

SegWit isn't that much of a help in case there is another major spam attack going on, especially so when it comes to deep pocket spammers finding it justified to spend more in order to achieve the same as when SegWit wasn't active. In other words, spammers can still clutter the network, but it is just more expensive in current days. SegWit is basically an entry point for off-chain scaling solutions to make their appearance, and that's basically where the long term growth should come from. Currently the main point of attention is what LN is going to do, but there will be far more applications that can be built on top of Bitcoin. With that in mind, scalability in the future is much less of a concern than people think it is right now.

aso118

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 28, 2018, 10:34:38 AM

Not so long ago, the bitcoin protocol was upgraded to increase block capacity "Segregated Witness or SegWit" "~~4 MB block size~~ 4000 WU limit" and the last version of Bitcoin Core "SegWit support is enabled by default" supported native SegWit format or Bech32 type.
as a result:
1. Mempool is empty. 2. 34% less fee. 3. improve merchant support.

Several companies dropped Bitcoin support over the high fees and transaction delays. If those are non-issues in the future, spending the world’s leading cryptocurrency will become easier again. Additionally, the Bitcoin Dominance Index has been on the rise as well. [1]

So Can SegWit Support Make Bitcoin Price Rise again? or SegWit can’t affect the price of the Bitcoin?

Source #1: https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/02/20/can-default-segwit-support-make-bitcoin-price-rise-even-higher/

Actually, segwit implementation isn't the reason for mempool being empty. There has been a drop in number of transactions using Bitcoin, and that is worrying. If the price has to increase, it has to be due to an increase in popularity, which will be accompanied by an increase in the number of transactions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/bitcoin-s-plunge-in-volume-stirs-questions-about-its-popularity

The advantage of Segwit is in the future - when the number of transactions increases again or when there is a spam attack.

BitHodler

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Quote from: buwaytress on March 04, 2018, 11:35:26 AM

I've finally also made a proper move to native SW, but yet to convince a few of my regulars to switch over to SW, much less native.

If much lower fees aren't convincing enough for people to start transacting with SegWit addresses, I don't know what is. I have been sending transactions with less than 0.00002BTC fees for over a week now!

I have probably sent like 50 transactions in total with SegWit this week. All these transactions have cost me just under 0.0008BTC in total, while it wasn't all that long ago that legacy transactions didn't even confirm with 0.0008BTC.

I am sure that I could go lower in fees as well, but I prefer to have transactions confirmed within 2 blocks on average. Coinbase fees are now ~0.000025BTC, where again it wasn't that long ago where they were 0.002BTC.

Less network congestion definitely plays a role too, but still, current fees feel almost like a steal. Cheesy

Panda Trump

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 28, 2018, 10:34:38 AM

Not so long ago, the bitcoin protocol was upgraded to increase block capacity "Segregated Witness or SegWit" "~~4 MB block size~~ 4000 WU limit" and the last version of Bitcoin Core "SegWit support is enabled by default" supported native SegWit format or Bech32 type.
as a result:
1. Mempool is empty. 2. 34% less fee. 3. improve merchant support.

Several companies dropped Bitcoin support over the high fees and transaction delays. If those are non-issues in the future, spending the world’s leading cryptocurrency will become easier again. Additionally, the Bitcoin Dominance Index has been on the rise as well. [1]

So Can SegWit Support Make Bitcoin Price Rise again? or SegWit can’t affect the price of the Bitcoin?

Source #1: https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/02/20/can-default-segwit-support-make-bitcoin-price-rise-even-higher/

It improves the use cases of Bitcoin. If it keeps it insanely high fees of $20 per transaction, it's hard to mass-adopt it. Other cryptocurrencies, like Litecoin, or more anonymous ones like monero, would be much more attractive.
This makes Bitcoin more useful and so Bitcoin's price won't be purely based on speculation, but would return to being a useful (Crypto)currency.

I'm not sure if Segwit is going to have such a large effect, but I do know it's a step in the good direction and should indeed up the price.

TheQuin

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Quote from: buwaytress on March 04, 2018, 11:35:26 AM

I'd be really interested now to see also how much of that 30% is native Segwit. I'm seeing bech32 in every block I've viewed, and I wasn't expecting that either.

If I have understood this correctly these charts show the amount of BTC stored and the number of UXTOs for each.

Native Segwit (bech32 addresses)
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/p2wpkh-statistics?orgId=1&from=now-30d&to=now

Nested Segwit (3 addresses)
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/p2wsh-statistics?orgId=1&from=now-30d&to=now

Legacy
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/p2sh-statistics?orgId=1&from=now-30d&to=now

Not exactly the same as % of transactions but it does show clearly the switch to Segwit and increase in bech32 in the last few week.

* That's a big if BTW so you might want to check I've got it right.

Edit
Try this one instead, it has been added since I last looked at the site.
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/bech32-statistics?orgId=1&from=now-30d&to=now

buwaytress

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 02, 2018, 02:04:28 PM

There was actually a peak of %46 segwit transactions but it was really short lived, now it's leveling don again at 30%. You can still see the peak in segwit.party website if you click on "last 3 days". It lacks precision but it was %46.

I think the bulltrend is also helped by the increase in segwit transactions. Do higher fees lead to lower price? im not sure about that. Higher fee means more usage? im not sure about that either, due spammers and so on. It's difficult to assess the impact of fees and blog space on the price.

Call me crazy but if almost 1 in 3 transactions are Segwit, then adoption has exceeded even my optimistic expectations. I know this is not all the same as 1 in 3 people using Segwit, but it the big picture, this might not matter much in terms of adoption. I'd be really interested now to see also how much of that 30% is native Segwit. I'm seeing bech32 in every block I've viewed, and I wasn't expecting that either.

I've finally also made a proper move to native SW, but yet to convince a few of my regulars to switch over to SW, much less native.

Also... I think the relationship is more inverse... price has an effect on fees and blockspace.... until it peaks and then the reverse happens.

hacekd

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The possibility of only 50% occurrence of bitcoin split due to the application of segwit will most likely cause softfork only.

So we do not have to worry about this segment, because segwit has many advantages for our bitcoin network.

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Quote from: 1Referee on February 28, 2018, 11:01:45 AM

Quote from: TheQuin on February 28, 2018, 10:44:58 AM

Segwit in itself isn't the answer it was part of the process of opening up the Bitcoin blockchain to layer 2 applications that allow off-chain transactions. This I believe will indeed eventually solve the scaling issues and is a positive factor on prices.

Definitely. Segwit is nothing more than a first step towards LN, which will give this market and ecosystem the boost that it badly needs, and at the same time deserves. It will very likely also make sure that capital parked in altcoins due to Bitcoin's 'incompetence' will flow back into Bitcoin, which will again result in Bitcoin's market to benefit. In that regard, I would probably start preparing to unload altcoins and start taking a strong position in Bitcoin at this point already, because when the mass starts doing it, you'll get a whole lot less Bitcoin for your altcoins.

The most obvious benefit for SegWit is the increased capacity introduced in the form of different transaction formats. However, there are other benefits to SegWit, as described here. This includes increased security for multi signature transactions, linear sighash operation scales, script versions and more.

However, fixing the issue of transaction worthiness is the most important. The flexibility of transactions exists because the signatures that protect the remainder of the transaction from being modified can not protect themselves. This means that the way a transaction id (txid) is calculated allows one to make changes to this same transaction id.

TheQuin

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 04, 2018, 09:21:51 AM

...remember that we have evidence of miners spamming the network as well.

Can you point me in the direction of that with some links? That's not to doubt you, it's that I'm interested to read about it.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: stevegee58 on March 02, 2018, 02:55:24 PM

Apparently most of the mempool size was caused by Coinbase and other large-volume exchanges. Segwit may be part of the the mempool reduction but the main reason is batching transactions every few minutes instead of transmitting every transaction instantly.
The drop in mempool and fees is most likely due to a single, large exchange adopting more efficient transaction methods.

Yep, I also suspect Coinbase was causing that huge clutter in the mempool, perhaps in purpose, in association with Ver and Jihan in order to prop up the Bitcoin Cash scam. In fact, Coinbase is going to get a class action lawsuit related to BCash:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/coinbase-user-files-class-action-against-company-claims-insider-bch-trading

Something VERY stranged happened when with Coinbase and the way they released BCash coupled with their constant delay of segwit and transaction batching techniques. Having a clutter mempool was part of Ver and anyone that was selling BCash as the solution to Bitcoin's high fees... remember that we have evidence of miners spamming the network as well.

In my opinion it's clear.. this was a conspiracy against the mempool to pump BCash and Coinbase was definitely involved.

stevegee58

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Apparently most of the mempool size was caused by Coinbase and other large-volume exchanges. Segwit may be part of the the mempool reduction but the main reason is batching transactions every few minutes instead of transmitting every transaction instantly.
The drop in mempool and fees is most likely due to a single, large exchange adopting more efficient transaction methods.

dinoloverpete

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Quote from: Kronos21 on March 02, 2018, 02:19:00 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 02, 2018, 02:04:28 PM

There was actually a peak of %46 segwit transactions but it was really short lived, now it's leveling don again at 30%. You can still see the peak in segwit.party website if you click on "last 3 days". It lacks precision but it was %46.

I think the bulltrend is also helped by the increase in segwit transactions. Do higher fees lead to lower price? im not sure about that. Higher fee means more usage? im not sure about that either, due spammers and so on. It's difficult to assess the impact of fees and blog space on the price.

It seems to me that the increase in charges leads to the fact that the coin increases its price. We are forced to make transactions less frequently and in large amounts. In order to collect a large amount we have to keep the coins. This causes a decrease in the number of coins on sale and automatically increases the price. But this effect is short-term. Then users are forced to exchange large sums for Fiat and make purchases without transaction costs. This on the contrary increases the number of coins on sale and reduces the price.

I agree that the relationship is the other way around, being that the fees increase when the price is high, but I don't think that it's because of the reason you mentioned. I think that we can see what happened in December, there was a big rush to buy bitcoin and other currencies and this pushed the price up, at the same time it meant there was a much larger volume of transactions and that's why the mempool got backed up.

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 02, 2018, 02:04:28 PM

There was actually a peak of %46 segwit transactions but it was really short lived, now it's leveling don again at 30%. You can still see the peak in segwit.party website if you click on "last 3 days". It lacks precision but it was %46.

I think the bulltrend is also helped by the increase in segwit transactions. Do higher fees lead to lower price? im not sure about that. Higher fee means more usage? im not sure about that either, due spammers and so on. It's difficult to assess the impact of fees and blog space on the price.

It seems to me that the increase in charges leads to the fact that the coin increases its price. We are forced to make transactions less frequently and in large amounts. In order to collect a large amount we have to keep the coins. This causes a decrease in the number of coins on sale and automatically increases the price. But this effect is short-term. Then users are forced to exchange large sums for Fiat and make purchases without transaction costs. This on the contrary increases the number of coins on sale and reduces the price.

BillyBobZorton

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There was actually a peak of %46 segwit transactions but it was really short lived, now it's leveling don again at 30%. You can still see the peak in segwit.party website if you click on "last 3 days". It lacks precision but it was %46.

I think the bulltrend is also helped by the increase in segwit transactions. Do higher fees lead to lower price? im not sure about that. Higher fee means more usage? im not sure about that either, due spammers and so on. It's difficult to assess the impact of fees and blog space on the price.

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Quote from: BrewMaster on February 28, 2018, 11:32:21 AM

it will help with more adoption, better increase in price and eventually higher one but don't expect something huge out of this. most part of the help is because of the low fees which had little to do with SegWit and mostly happened because the spam attack stopped. that can help because lower fees means less issues, less head aches and bitcoin being a real currency not just something that people invest in to make money

Iys long been overdue. I don't know why the first segwit didn't push through but that was a big bump on the road for btc. A lot lost interest with the high fees ans slow transaction time and that placed to the attention of many investors the other alts that doesn't have these issues. Now we're all feeling the effects of it and imagine if ln is also in full effect.

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it will help with more adoption, better increase in price and eventually higher one but don't expect something huge out of this. most part of the help is because of the low fees which had little to do with SegWit and mostly happened because the spam attack stopped. that can help because lower fees means less issues, less head aches and bitcoin being a real currency not just something that people invest in to make money

1Referee

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Quote from: TheQuin on February 28, 2018, 10:44:58 AM

Segwit in itself isn't the answer it was part of the process of opening up the Bitcoin blockchain to layer 2 applications that allow off-chain transactions. This I believe will indeed eventually solve the scaling issues and is a positive factor on prices.

Definitely. Segwit is nothing more than a first step towards LN, which will give this market and ecosystem the boost that it badly needs, and at the same time deserves. It will very likely also make sure that capital parked in altcoins due to Bitcoin's 'incompetence' will flow back into Bitcoin, which will again result in Bitcoin's market to benefit. In that regard, I would probably start preparing to unload altcoins and start taking a strong position in Bitcoin at this point already, because when the mass starts doing it, you'll get a whole lot less Bitcoin for your altcoins.

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Until recently, I'm not aware of the benefits that we could get from Segwit. I just noticed it when the transaction fees became lower every passing day and the confirmation time became faster compared to last month. This is a very positive outcome for the community.

Yet, I still not believe that this alone will push the price of BTC any higher. Segwit just attempts to provide one solution to a number of problems that we have right now. It will take some time but the path that we are taking now is the right one. It is also very noticeable that the price of BTC is being heavily manipulated nowadays. We can only see another ATH from it when the market makers decided to do so. Grin

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 28, 2018, 10:34:38 AM

Not so long ago, the bitcoin protocol was upgraded to increase block capacity "Segregated Witness or SegWit" "4 MB block size"

It's not a 4Mb blocksize. The size restriction has been replaced with the concept of weighted units so now there is a 4000 WU limit. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units

Quote from: hugeblack on February 28, 2018, 10:34:38 AM

and the last version of Bitcoin Core "SegWit support is enabled by default" supported native SegWit format or Bech32 type.
as a result:
1. Mempool is empty. 2. 34% less fee. 3. improve merchant support.

Actually, the mempool has been empty for weeks not just since Core 0.16.0 was released on Monday.
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,30d

Segwit in itself isn't the answer it was part of the process of opening up the Bitcoin blockchain to layer 2 applications that allow off-chain transactions. This I believe will indeed eventually solve the scaling issues and is a positive factor on prices.

hugeblack

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Quote from: https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/02/20/can-default-segwit-support-make-bitcoin-price-rise-even-higher/

Not so long ago, the bitcoin protocol was upgraded to increase block capacity "Segregated Witness or SegWit" "~~4 MB block size~~ 4000 WU limit" and the last version of Bitcoin Core "SegWit support is enabled by default" supported native SegWit format or Bech32 type.
as a result:
1. Mempool is empty. 2. 34% less fee. 3. improve merchant support.

Several companies dropped Bitcoin support over the high fees and transaction delays. If those are non-issues in the future, spending the world’s leading cryptocurrency will become easier again. Additionally, the Bitcoin Dominance Index has been on the rise as well. [1]

So Can SegWit Support Make Bitcoin Price Rise again? or SegWit can’t affect the price of the Bitcoin?

Source #1: https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/02/20/can-default-segwit-support-make-bitcoin-price-rise-even-higher/

Topic: SegWit & Bitcoin price (Read 356 times)