SegWit2x B2X & Block size | BITCOIN 2.0

OcTradism

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Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 05:22:10 PM

As noted by a comment here, SSD and HDD hard drives aren't that expensive nowadays, and what stops the bitcoin team creating full node rewards like in Dash

You can not earn anything when you set up a bitcoin full node and let it runs 24/7.

Mining pools run their full nodes for their privacy and security and they earn rewards from mining. Their earnings are not come from full node operations though their have better privacy and security with the cost they spend for their Bitcoin full nodes.

MrSolo

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Quote from: bitmover on February 22, 2021, 09:21:42 AM

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 09:15:36 AM

maybe those coins have issues with nodes and community but their technology like BCH has a 8mb block size or BSV which i think has a 32MB block size which means higher scalability and way lower fees but maybe even that is not enough for real use while BTC has a 1mb blocksize and Segwit2X has 2mb.

This is not a new technology, this is just a design choice. BCH just changed a few parameters, they created zero innovation.

Larger blocks will hurt decentralization. Nowadays it is not very costly to run a full node.

Take a look at Ethereum blockchain, as a comparison. An ethereum full node needs to sync 6.45 TB of space. Because of that, more than 60% of Ethereum nodes run on clouds like AWS servers. This mean the network is not as decentralized as it could be.

As noted by a comment here, SSD and HDD hard drives aren't that expensive nowadays, and what stops the bitcoin team creating full node rewards like in Dash

dkbit98

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Quote from: bitmover on February 22, 2021, 11:23:26 AM

...

Hmmm... then what happened with over 23,000 nodes missing in last two years? Why such big decrease in numbers?

2019 he was reporting there are over 100,000 nodes
2021 this script suggest there are 76,786 nodes

Somehow I doubt that all this numbers and scripts are correct but it is true that real number of nodes is higher than 8861 reported on Bitnodes.

bitmover

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bitcoindata.science

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 22, 2021, 11:11:29 AM

If we look at the stats from Bitnodes we can see that there are total of 8861 nodes and I am not sure if they are all full nodes or some of them are just watch nodes.

There are much more, as you cannot see all full nodes which are connected, only "listening" nodes.

Quote

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Clearing_Up_Misconceptions_About_Full_Nodes#Very_roughly_estimating_the_total_node_count

This number comes from sites like this and it measured by trying to connect to every nodes on their open ports.

Problem is, not all nodes actually have open ports that can be probed. Either because they are behind firewalls or because their users have configured them to not listen for connections.

Nobody knows exactly how many full nodes there are, since many people don't know how to forward ports behind a firewall, and bandwidth can be costly, its quite likely that the number of nodes with closed ports is at least another several thousand.

...

Luke's script
Luke-jr has a script which attempts to count all full nodes: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html

Luke's script suggests there are more than 76,000 full nodes.

I found this too:

Quote

PSA: a lot of people believe there are about 10,000 Bitcoin nodes. This is incorrect, this number is the amount of *listening* nodes.

The total number of Bitcoin full nodes now exceeds 100,000. pic.twitter.com/VYziaKCYzg

— Francis Pouliot 🐂 (@francispouliot_) May 5, 2019
https://twitter.com/francispouliot_/status/1125139855313387520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

dkbit98

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Quote from: bitmover on February 22, 2021, 09:21:42 AM

Larger blocks will hurt decentralization. Nowadays it is not very costly to run a full node.

Still the real question is how many people actually run full node and why more people are than not doing it?

If we look at the stats from Bitnodes we can see that there are total of 8861 nodes and I am not sure if they are all full nodes or some of them are just watch nodes.
That tells as that it is not so easy or cheap to run full node as more people would do it, but compared with other Bitcoin forks it is much higher number for sure, I think between seven and eight times more nodes.

On the other hand blockchain size is growing bigger for all of them but SSD and HDD disks are getting much cheaper and have much bigger capacity now, and I can imagine in next few years this will multiple with new chips and new technology.

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 08:09:58 AM

like nakamoto wanted it to be that you can actually use to pay for a 2$ cheesburger without paying 15$ to transfer it.

I am sure Satoshi Nakamoto didn't invent Bitcoin just because he wanted to buy cheesburger with low fees.

bitmover

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Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 09:15:36 AM

maybe those coins have issues with nodes and community but their technology like BCH has a 8mb block size or BSV which i think has a 32MB block size which means higher scalability and way lower fees but maybe even that is not enough for real use while BTC has a 1mb blocksize and Segwit2X has 2mb.

This is not a new technology, this is just a design choice. BCH just changed a few parameters, they created zero innovation.

Larger blocks will hurt decentralization. Nowadays it is not very costly to run a full node.

Take a look at Ethereum blockchain, as a comparison. An ethereum full node needs to sync 6.45 TB of space. Because of that, more than 60% of Ethereum nodes run on clouds like AWS servers. This mean the network is not as decentralized as it could be.

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 09:15:36 AM

maybe those coins have issues with nodes and community but their technology like BCH has a 8mb block size or BSV which i think has a 32MB block size which means higher scalability and way lower fees

having bigger block size is not technology, it is child's play. besides since nobody uses these altcoins they always have empty blocks. they keep spamming them to keep the size up but they can't keep at it and the size drops down to near zero again. that is the only reason for their lower fees, lack of usage.
the problems aren't with nodes and community either. it runs much deeper. for example more than 90% of the hashrate is being controlled by the same people who control these altcoins.

MrSolo

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Quote from: bitmover on February 22, 2021, 08:41:45 AM

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 08:09:58 AM

a real currency like nakamoto wanted it to be that you can actually use to pay for a 2$ cheesburger without paying 15$ to transfer it.

Do you think Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin so you could buy a cheeseburger paying less fees? You could use Visa for that before, and you can still use it for that now.

We are talking about decentralization of money, not a cheaper cheeseburger.

Maybe i'm mistaken, it could be that he wanted wealth to be decentralized not currency, like gold to preserve wealth which kinda makes sense by requiring higher fees when volitality orrcures i guess is a smart lock.

However my point is simply that do we need one to be used as currency and won't have issues with scalability and volitality or do you think we already have that?

Quote from: BrewMaster on February 22, 2021, 08:41:54 AM

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 08:09:58 AM

i understand that BCH and BSV are probably way more superior than

why exactly do you think centralized altcoins with lots of weaknesses that the community has ridiculed and ignored are "superior" to anything?

maybe those coins have issues with nodes and community but their technology like BCH has a 8mb block size or BSV which i think has a 32MB block size which means higher scalability and way lower fees but maybe even that is not enough for real use while BTC has a 1mb blocksize and Segwit2X has 2mb.

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 08:09:58 AM

i understand that BCH and BSV are probably way more superior than

why exactly do you think centralized altcoins with lots of weaknesses that the community has ridiculed and ignored are "superior" to anything?

bitmover

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bitcoindata.science

Quote from: MrSolo on February 22, 2021, 08:09:58 AM

a real currency like nakamoto wanted it to be that you can actually use to pay for a 2$ cheesburger without paying 15$ to transfer it.

Do you think Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin so you could buy a cheeseburger paying less fees? You could use Visa for that before, and you can still use it for that now.

We are talking about decentralization of money, not a cheaper cheeseburger.

I will paste this that Antonopolous said a few years ago (transcription not entirely faithful.):

Quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=GEuMVmjKAKk&app=desktop
10:21
It is used as a currency where it is needed
...
Just because it is not used for daily payments it doesn't mean that it doesn't help the unbanked. That's a mistake to think.

It is not important for you to take a coffee at starbucks.
It is very important for someone to buy a bus ticket to Turkey when they live in Syria with Bitcoin, and trust me, they can.

MrSolo

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Hey there, i'm an old member of the cryptocurrency world, and remember back in 2017 there was a big conversation about block size and transaction fees, and SegWit2x was announced to be the best solution by increasing the Block size to 2MB, even tho i understand that BCH and BSV are probably way more superior than B2X, do you see a chance of the conversation of high transaction fees when volatility goes up coming back, and what do you think is the best solution or do you think BTC should stay a commodity and not a real currency like nakamoto wanted it to be that you can actually use to pay for a 2$ cheesburger without paying 15$ to transfer it.

Topic: SegWit2x B2X & Block size | BITCOIN 2.0 (Read 130 times)