Topic: Self Mod Topics In Politics & Society Are For Weak Children - Change My Mind (Read 209 times)

When I open a topic in P&S, I want to have a serious discussion. I don’t mind educating someone on the background of a topic, but expect they have at least minimal knowledge of what my topic is about. There is also the type of people like the flat earth guy who is posting in the coronavirus thread; he is not a serious person and I believe is trolling and is being successful in derailing any serious discussion (even if what he says is technically on topic). Additionally, as of recently, I don’t like reporting posts that are posted incorrectly or otherwise break the rules, and self moderation allows me to remove posts myself that should be removed by a moderator if I had removed them.

I believe the above reasons are all valid reasons to create and use a self moderated thread. As long as you are not removing posts because you disagree with the content, I have no concerns with self moderated threads.

I also have seen some liberals using self moderated threads as a means to censor thoughts and ideas. This is a very good example of how self moderation should not be used and of people being unwilling or unable to defend their ideas.

Threads in Meta are not purely for discussion at all times. There are instances when either notices, public announcements, or general information needs to be posted without interference from 3rd parties looking to slide the topic to something other than what the OP is for. Additionally locked threads don't allow for selective removal of a discussion to manage the general perception of consensus within it as self moderated threads do. Self moderated threads allow for a deceptive perception of consensus to be synthesised by removing any opposing view points or valid criticism the OP can not logically argue against, or refuses to respond to. Politics & Society is purely for the sake of discussions and debate of ideas, ones that are often contentious. There is a very big difference.

I welcome anyone challenging my ideas in Politics & Society, and I see that largely as the point of the section. I find it interesting you accuse me of being tired of hearing the opinions of others while I am quite literally advocating for the ability of everyone there to speak freely without interference. You accuse me of not wanting my own ideas to be challenged, and you seem to find this repugnant, but at the same time you project this perception on to me as if I am the one perpetrating it and not chastising it.

Regardless of the intent, normalizing self moderating topics in the section is dangerous for the reasons already stated above. If people are tired of having their ideas challenged they have pretty much the entirety of the rest of the internet to have nice safe space walled moderated gardens where they are protected from ideas they don't like. This platform is a rare instance where people are not prevented from speaking freely, and that is important to preserve regardless of the petty annoyances that may result.

Regarding the move to Meta, I assume it is one of the usual reporters of my posts hoping one will stick just to get their kicks from interfering with my activities as much as they are able to. I am not advocating any changes in forum policy but simply discussing the culture of the subsection itself. I disagree with your logic of moving it to Meta, especially since the entire purpose of it was to effect the culture of the subsection, and moving it to another section largely negates that ability.

Well ok. Yes, you are free to make the argument that self-modding makes people scared little children that need a safe space and also free to shame them for it, but as I said, I don't think just because someone self-mods a thread makes them so for the reasons I've already stated. Does locking and re-opening threads in Meta make you a scared little child or weak? I wouldn't say so, but others may make that argument, but to me it just looks like you're tired of certain people chiming in and maybe that's what's happening with people who self-mod threads in P&S. So yes, ideally people should be able to openly debate without feeling the need to potentially censor anyone and it doesn't look good for them when they do, but either ignoring discussion or self-modding threads doesn't inherently mean they are weak or can't make a valid or strong argument, but I would take it on a case by case basis.


Just seen this edit. It was me who moved it here based on a report. Any discussion about specific boards or features of the forum do belong in Meta, but I can see how you can make an argument it belongs there. I would say it's not merely addressing free speech though, but free speech within a specific subboard and the confines of forum features hence why it belongs in Meta.

Please reread what I said, you seem to be conflating separate comments. No one is forcing anyone to engage in the Politics & Society subforum, everyone is free to have as much or as little participation in that section as they like. The preservation of this platform as one of the very few remaining outlets for free speech very much outweighs the petty annoyances you describe.

Well you can make that argument if you want but it's not a fact that someone is a weak child just for self-modding. Sure, it's not great for an open debate and doesn't look good as they should be able to debate you openly but maybe they just don't want to get involved or are tired with certain people and they are free to do that just like you are free to call them weak or childish. If someone on the street challenges me to a fist fight for whatever reasons and I decline and walk away it doesn't necessarily mean I am weak or scared or can't beat them; maybe I just don't want to get involved with such shenanigans or pettiness and avoid that situation. If the other person wants to call me a weak child then they can do so but that would just be their opinion which may or may not be correct.

All you are doing is telling me a matter of fact, not arguing a principle. You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. They are free to be scared little children that need a safe space, and I am free to shame them for it.

Self-modded threads aren't great for a true and honest open debate and it might be antithetical to the very concept of free speech but at the same time people are also free to self-moderate their threads whether we like it or not. If you don't like that they've self-modded then you are free to create your own thread to discuss or reply to the posts in there and they can choose whether to respond or not. I would look at their thread as their own property and they can do what they want with it whether you like it or not, much like you are well within your rights to kick someone out of your house if you don't like what they say. I think we should encourage users not to self-mod political threads but at the same time people are free to do so and everyone else is free to either not comment, comment or create their own threads in response.

If they want to push an idea that they can't defend in an open debate, it makes perfect sense.

Don't want to get in middle of others personal conflict but self modding a discussion is lame.
Why would anyone even look for an opinion if they don't want to here anything that differs from theirs.

It used to be this section would immediately chastise anyone for starting a self moderated topic here for any reason, as this is a section for discussion and debate of contentious issues, and curating people's speech is antithetical to the concept of open debate and discussion. In other sections where a specific goal or narrow topic is at hand this makes perfect sense to use self moderated topics. Here, its use is antithetical to the very concept of free speech. The internet is packed to the brim with outlets for censored and curated speech. This forum is one of the last remaining platforms where people can speak freely, and people who claim to be for free speech are throwing that right in the garbage can by normalizing the use of self moderated topics here.

What I see happening, and is already happening is people with weak ideas will simply run their own self moderated threads, then anyone who remains posting open threads will be allowed to be flooded with bullshit, resulting in the weak ideas being protected, and the open debate being pushed out by virtue of the fact that the same people who want to control the speech also will derail the open discussions. The solution to bad speech, is more free speech. Opening self moderated threads in Politics & Society is antithetical to free speech and discussion. All they have to do to get the free speech shut down is to shit up the open threads until people give up and self moderate them, and their goal of normalizing controlling and limiting speech is achieved either way. The only way to resist is to keep everything open and shun anyone who doesn't. Free speech is too valuable to be given up over petty annoyances. Don't start or participate in self moderated threads in Politics & Society. Don't submit to totalitarian harpies for a minor convenience.

EDIT: FYI- this was posted in Politics & Society originally. Considering it is addressing not only the forum subsection but the nature of free speech itself, I don't see why it was moved to Meta, but the local moderator there enjoys interfering with my activities there as much as he is able to. As usual, any chance he gets to act upon my posts are taken advantage of immediately while almost all the reports I make there go ignored.