'Send as zero-fee transaction if possible' is misleading and illogical

achow101

staff

Activity: 3458

Merit: 6793

Just writing some code

Quote from: jaydipmodhwadia on February 19, 2016, 08:43:31 AM

I know core has already got custom fees, but also I think there should be a thing where it fetches some info from a website and then it changes its recommended fees to suit the current market...

Why should core check a third party website for the fees? It already has its fee estimating, and if you actually have it run as it is supposed to, I think it is fairly accurate. In order for it to be accurate, you need to let Bitcoin core run for a while so that it receives enough blocks to do an accurate estimate.

Quote from: thelema93 on February 19, 2016, 08:57:10 AM

And also - it should show you the calculated fee BEFORE you click SEND.

It does show you the recommended fee/kB. If you use the coin control feature, then I think it will also tell you how much you should expect to pay in fees.

Jet Cash

legendary

Activity: 2814

Merit: 2472

https://JetCash.com

Quote from: jaydipmodhwadia on February 19, 2016, 07:33:37 AM

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?

It's called RBF

xhomerx10

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 7912

Quote from: thelema93 on February 19, 2016, 06:11:44 AM

I recently sent a transaction using Bitcoin Core 0.11.1

I checked the Recommended fee selection button, but I also ticked the box underneath that says "Send as zero-fee transaction if possible"

BOTH these options are now selected.

This is how my brain interprets what I chose....
'Send the transaction with the recommended fee... OR if somehow possible, send it with no fee - whichever WORKS best.'

Unfortunately I found out it doesn't mean that at all! - The transaction simply gets sent with no fee!

This is illogical and misleading - It is an either-or option, you shouldn't be able to select BOTH of these options at once!

If you select the "Send as zero-fee" - then the other 'Recommended' fee option should be unchecked right!

On top of that - what does that even mean... 'if possible' ?

Personally I think this should be changed as it is very confusing.

It should have 3 options... Recommended, Custom OR zero.
But then again - why even have the zero option as it basically doesn't work anyway.

At least fix the logic error there - it doesn't make sense.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't necessarily mean there is an error in logic. Keep Calm℠ and read this:

If any of the outputs (including any change) of your transaction are less than 0.01 XBT, then a fee of 0.0001 XBT is required.

So you see, it is both logical and functional. Avoid faucets that will load your wallet with dust and you can avoid network fees. However, keep in mind that network fees are essential to the long-term viability of Bitcoin.

thelema93

sr. member

Activity: 339

Merit: 250

And also - it should show you the calculated fee BEFORE you click SEND.

jaydipmodhwadia

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Verify my Bitcoin Address before EVERY transaction

Quote from: ranochigo on February 19, 2016, 08:00:56 AM

Quote from: jaydipmodhwadia on February 19, 2016, 07:33:37 AM

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

Quote from: thelema93 on February 19, 2016, 06:40:34 AM

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:25:28 AM

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?

Core do have an option for custom fees to be set. Go to send tab and look below. Its in the transaction fee table, just select that option and put a custom fee.

Recommended fee shouldn't be reliable, unless you have great peers and a excellent mempool policy, you are likely to get just somewhere close to an accurate result.

I know core has already got custom fees, but also I think there should be a thing where it fetches some info from a website and then it changes its recommended fees to suit the current market...

ranochigo

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 4418

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: jaydipmodhwadia on February 19, 2016, 07:33:37 AM

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

Quote from: thelema93 on February 19, 2016, 06:40:34 AM

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:25:28 AM

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?

Core do have an option for custom fees to be set. Go to send tab and look below. Its in the transaction fee table, just select that option and put a custom fee.

Recommended fee shouldn't be reliable, unless you have great peers and a excellent mempool policy, you are likely to get just somewhere close to an accurate result.

jaydipmodhwadia

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Verify my Bitcoin Address before EVERY transaction

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:42:33 AM

Quote from: thelema93 on February 19, 2016, 06:40:34 AM

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:25:28 AM

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?

pedrog

legendary

Activity: 2786

Merit: 1031

Quote from: thelema93 on February 19, 2016, 06:40:34 AM

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:25:28 AM

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

thelema93

sr. member

Activity: 339

Merit: 250

Quote from: pedrog on February 19, 2016, 06:25:28 AM

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

pedrog

legendary

Activity: 2786

Merit: 1031

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

thelema93

sr. member

Activity: 339

Merit: 250

I recently sent a transaction using Bitcoin Core 0.11.1

I checked the Recommended fee selection button, but I also ticked the box underneath that says "Send as zero-fee transaction if possible"

BOTH these options are now selected.

This is how my brain interprets what I chose....
'Send the transaction with the recommended fee... OR if somehow possible, send it with no fee - whichever WORKS best.'

Unfortunately I found out it doesn't mean that at all! - The transaction simply gets sent with no fee!

This is illogical and misleading - It is an either-or option, you shouldn't be able to select BOTH of these options at once!

If you select the "Send as zero-fee" - then the other 'Recommended' fee option should be unchecked right!

On top of that - what does that even mean... 'if possible' ?

Personally I think this should be changed as it is very confusing.

It should have 3 options... Recommended, Custom OR zero.
But then again - why even have the zero option as it basically doesn't work anyway.

At least fix the logic error there - it doesn't make sense.

Topic: 'Send as zero-fee transaction if possible' is misleading and illogical (Read 1032 times)