Topic: Sending and Receiving Address and Anonymity Question (Read 251 times)

okay i will install LTC app on nano ledger a bit later.



Right now, i want to first withdraw some btc from a gambling site, and then deposit a small amount of that btc into another gambling site.  Privacy shouldn't be an issue when you do this right since its a gambling site and they have tons of customers who use btc then... would you agree?  Because i never thought about this when it comes to gambling sites.



When i connected my nano ledger s to my laptop and click on receive, i would then choose the bitcoin segwit account... its the default one.  When you click on dropdown menu, you see option of BCH account which i have BCH stored there.  Now when i click next when it is on the bitcoin segwit account and it shows my balance next to it, it then displays a btc receiving address that starting with the number 3.  So i have to look at the btc address on the laptop screen and on the nano ledger screen to verify it is the same address to verify.  What i then noticed was this btc receiving address that is displayed on both the laptop screen and the nano ledger screen, i seen this btc address many times and come to think about it, i might have used this receiving address many times.  The btc address i am close to positive i used this as a btc receiving address many times or almost every single time i received btc to my nano ledger.  So is that normal and default?  That is not good right?  But i only send and receive btc to my previous other wallets and gambling sites and exchanges and that is all.  Thus not to a regular person.



So by default, whenever you click on receive tab on ledger live and click on the btc account you name it, it always displays the same receiving address each time?  How would you generate a new btc receiving address?  Had thought nano ledger generate a new receiving address each time by default... but when i saw this receiving address, im positive i seen this address many times.



Also could i copy and paste that btc address showing on my nano ledger receiving address into blockchair and it would display how much btc i have in that address?  is it very likely based on what i mentioned, my entire btc balance is in this btc receiving address?  Now im not even sure if my nano ledger ever showed a receiving address different from this one each time i get btc received?  Can someone here clarify this?  But since im withdrawing btc from one gambling site to nano ledger and then sending tiny amount of btc to another gambling site, is there much privacy concerns?  Can't imagine they would care much at all?  Then again, the people who process the btc cashouts most likely do get get paid much at all.

Call it whatever you want as long as you know what you will be using it for. 

Yes. 

Yes, that's how I explained it in the previous post.

Yes, you generate an address in the new account that will be used for your long-term storage.

Yes, you can just generate a new receiving address in your "long-term storage" account or even create a 3rd account that will be your "second long-term storage LTC account" if you want to be absolutely certain that you won't connect addresses A and B in the "first long-term storage" account. If you bought 5000 LTC one time and 5000 LTC a second time, those two parties don't have to know that you own both inputs.

Yes, just generate a new receiving address in the account you created for those small LTC deposits.

If you have only funded that account with one $50 LTC deposit, it's obvious that's all you have. You can't select a second input if it's not there. If you want to send something, the funds for the new transaction have to come from that previous $50 deposit. Coin control helps you when you have multiple inputs of $5, $10, $15, $25, $50 worth of LTC, for example. With coin control, you decide which of those inputs you want to spend.

So when i install the ltc app, is it okay if i just call it ltc account for now?  Could i change the name of that account later on?  Then i would receive small amount of ltc from gambling site, and then send that 5 dollars to the mystery person?



i don't plan to buy lot of ltc for a while.  Just don't want an issue in the future though.



So let say later on i buy say 500 ltc.  Then i create a brand new second ltc account and call it long term ltc bag.  But when you generate a receiving address for that amount, you would then choose that account right?



So later on if you want to buy more ltc for long term storage, you would still be generating a new address each time right and not reuse addresses?  But it would be for the second ltc account?



But say i want say another 50 dollars worth of ltc and want to withdraw that from gambling site to the small ltc payments account.  Would still go to receive and click on that account right and then it would generate a new ltc address... even though its going to that same small ltc payments account?



So when you are going to send 5 dollars to that person, you need to use coin control to do it right?  But can't you just go to send and choose ltc and then click on that small ltc payment account and then the ltc you send would be coming out from there?

We already covered this. Can you please pay attention to what is being written? Create a new Litecoin account on your Nano S. Call it "Monthly $5 payments to Mister X" or whatever you want to call it. Generate a new receiving address in that account and top it up with the LTC you intend to send to that mystery person you keep mentioning. That's it. Don't use that account and all of the other addresses in it for any other purposes! It only serves to send that monthly $5 payment and nothing else.

If you decide to purchase 5000 LTC in the future, and you don't want there to be a connection between those coins and the ones in your "Monthly $5 payments to Mister X" account, create a brand-new (second) Litecoin account on your Nano S. Call it "My long-term LTC bag". Deposit your 5000 LTC in one of its addresses and you are done.

Whatever you do in the future with either of the two accounts, they won't be connected unless you deposit or request a deposit to be made in the wrong one.

Well if history doesn't go away, how do i get rid of that ltc wallet on nano ledger say might have few dollars or up to 500 dollars where i don't want it combined to say holding say 5k worth of ltc there?  Am just making this scenario up in case i ever decide to buy a ton of ltc.  So don't want privacy issues such as that person i make ltc payment to... would then see... hey this guy bought lot of ltc. 



Reason this is different is because im sending btc or ltc to someone... and not like an exchange so there could be privacy issues.



Because that is why i wanted to use like a separate wallet like electrum ltc or trustwallet for this because i want the ltc wallet on my nano ledger... if i ever buy ltc to be a wallet for holding.



if i start a fresh wallet in electrum on my windows pc now, will i be using the same seed or creating a completely new seed?  Obviously creating a new electrum seed would be completely new and have no history.  But could i create a new electrum wallet under the same current electrum seed?  Again there is no coins in my old electrum wallet seed but tons of history.  Now if i create a new electrum seed and use that, do i need to know my old electrum seed if i want to go back to that account and access it though?  Do have my current old electrum seed with me so not that big of a deal.



Would you suggest i avoid that coin control way even though you say it is valid?   Basically i want like a spending wallet and don't want it connected to my main wallet.  That is why i wanted to go with ltc as oppose to btc in the first plaace.

Pretty certain i used the coin control feature or something like that on electrum.  i remember btc showing in so many of my addreses in my old electrum where you get so many tiny amounts of btc.  Asked how do i get btc sent from a certain address in electrum and recall they mention how to do it.  Recalled very well when i did this, i had to pay more fees than usual because i was combining inputs?  That is term for this?  Recall i did this few times in electrum.  So coin control would cost you more or same when sending?



Well the reason why i was considering using electrum ltc or trustwallet is because it will have max 50 dollars on it.  Probably would have no more than 20 dollars total only.  So i want that ltc wallet to be strictly for these small 5 dollar payments that i have to do.  So because of that, kind of don't want to install ltc app on nano ledger because lf i say i have say only 5 dollars worth of ltc in my nano ledger, now let say i want to buy say 50 ltc from coinbase or whatnot in the future.  Then when i send that amount of ltc to nano ledger... it would be sent to a different ltc address on my nano ledger.  So would have say ltc address a with 5 dollars worth.  And ltc address b would have say 5000 dollars worth. 



How do i make sure that ltc address a never ever get mixed with address b?  So say now i want to send 60 dollars worth of ltc to that same person but don't have enough in address a.  How would i use coin control here?  Certainly i can't do this right?  Because i only have max 5 dollars worth of ltc in address a and 5k worth of ltc in address b?  i obviously can't send like 55 dollars worth of ltc from address b to a... before sending it to that same person since they would see the connection?  So only way would be withdraw like 55-60 dollars from a gambling site and either request them to send to address a.... or send to new address... then send the 60 dollars worth of ltc to the same guy?  Makes the most sense to reuse address A then right here since the 5 dollars worth of ltc would then be between 60-65 dollars so i could make payment to the same person?



But what happens when you have some change in your everyday wallet and you don't think you would ever use it anymore.  Let say it could be 50 dollars worth or up to 500 dollars worth. 



Say you don't want to leave it in that nano ledger address a anymore and want it combined so to speak.  Only way i could see no issue is if you send all the ltc from address a to an exchange like coinbase to keep there or cash out for something else because obviously security and privacy issues or not much of a concern since they have tons of customers with tons of money.

Perfectly fine to do this, but the length of time between using the address is irrelevant, the history never goes away.

I've never used any Electrum fork so no idea how reputable they are.

Trust Wallet is closed source trash. Don't use it.

If the old wallet is empty, then better to just start fresh with a new one.

Correct. Just create a new Electrum wallet if you want to be free from history.

This is also a perfectly valid solution.

It's easier to use with Electrum because it's a cleaner interface. But I had no problem doing it from Ledger Live either.   

Am I seeing this right? Are you asking the Bitcointalk community if you used the coin control feature on Electrum? I guess we need to start keeping track of that. I am sorry, we will do better next time. Judging by how paranoid you are, I am pretty sure you never tried coin control on Electrum.

So don't use the same receiving address in the future when you decide to buy "a lot of LTC". Generate a new address and deposit your purchased coins to it and keep it separate from the one you use to pay that person with.

You already have a Nano S that you can use with Litecoin. Why would you consider using something that is less safe like 3rd-party software wallets? Stick with the Nano S and use different addresses and accounts for different needs.

If you haven't already, check the following guide that explains in layman's terms how a user can make use of coin control in Ledger Live: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015996580-Using-Coin-control?docs=true

Please, bear in mind that this feature is only available for blockchains based on UTXO model (Bitcoin, Litecoin...), which means it won't work with other account-based blockchains like Ethereum. When your wallet switches to a "coin control mode", it starts showing your balance as a set of outputs (chunks of bitcoin that can be sent with the private keys your wallet controls). Before broadcasting your transaction to the network, you choose manually which chunks to send. Oftentimes wallets allow you to label those chunks so that you can remember where they came from and never confuse KYCed with non-KYCed coins.

is this coin control easy to use on ledger live?  Never heard of it.  is it similar to like those inputs on electrum a while back?  Not sure if i ever tried this back with electrum but i recall wanting to either send or receive btc to a certain electrum address so i must have tried this a while back?



Have btc and bch in nano ledger s.  These coins are for holding.  Previously if i send or receive btc, i would generate new receiving address.  When sending btc, i would just send to the address... i did not do any coin control or anything like that, never even heard of that term.  Thing is when i send btc, it was almost always to an exchange or gambling site mostly so i wasn't that concerned.  Previously i had sent btc to people a while back but this was a while back.  



At the moment, i want to withdraw between just 20 and 50 dollars worth of btc or ltc from a gambling site first.  Yes you read that correct, only a tiny spending amount.  Would then send that 5 dollars worth to someone that i have to pay.  Would do several of those transactions in the future.  So based on that... what is my best option in terms of choices?



Here are my 6 options.  Again, i want to send with being as private as possible without linking to my btc and bch wallets on the nano ledger and as little fee as possible.  LTC fees seem to be always low.



1.  install LTC app on nano ledger and request between 20 and 50 dollars worth from gambling site and then just send 5 dollars worth of LTC to that person?  But in the future if i buy lot of LTC, i wouldn't want that person to see that.  But as long as i don't buy lot of LTC soon, i should do this?  Never had LTC installed on nano ledger so should do this?



2. Download electrum LTC which i used years ago and use that?  Of course i need to download verify electrum LTC which is something im not a fan of.  But if i had electrum LTC already installed and verified, i would have just used this.



3. Download trustwallet on my windows pc or iphone and use LTC there?  Of course, the issue here is i need to verify the software?



4.  Currently have electrum installed on my windows pc and verified.  Thing is i also entered my electrum seed phrase into it a while back so i have access to the old electrum history.  Thus when i open electrum, i enter my password and then my old electrum wallet opens up.  With this electrum, there were some addresses... where i literally used the same address multiple times excessively.  Don't have any btc in electrum at the moment. So you would not recommend i use the electrum that is installed on my windows pc right because it would see my old history?  But could i create new wallet on electrum now... where the seed is already put in... but get a new btc address where any btc i receive and sent to will have no history?



5.  Now if i were to create a brand new electrum seed phrase, i know that would work since it would be a complete brand new separate wallet.  Should i do that instead?  Note... i currently do have my old electrum seed phrase with me so if i were to create a new electrum wallet with seed phrase... i can always go back to the older electrum seed phrase account because i have that seed phrase with me.  But again... that old electrum seed phrase which im currently logged in electrum have nothing in it at the moment.  But i wouldn't want to receive btc to the old seed phrase wallet because when send btc to someone... wouldn't it show my old history?



6.  Receive small amount of btc in my current nano ledger but use coin control to make sure that way... that the person who receive the 5 dollar worth of btc doesn't see my btc balance on nano ledger?

But better use the input of 6 Litecoin. There is no reason to show that site or person you are transacting with that your total balance in that address is 50 LTC. They don't need to know that.

Of course. If you don't touch the 50 LTC input and connect it in a transaction with the 5 LTC one, the other party won't know that you are in possession of those additional coins. But you can't connect the addresses in the future either because that's proof you have the keys for both. However if you connect your wallet with a light client such as Electrum, the server you connect to will know all your addresses and the IP that established the connection. No reason to think that Ledger Live servers function differently.

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@jerry0
Ledger Live allows you to create multiple accounts. Take full advantage of that. Name them properly so that you know their purpose. And use the correct ones for your shopping, bills, work, friends, gambling, sex toys... whatever you need.

Naturally, in order to send someone money, you should first have it from another source. But I guess I understand what you're talking about. If you know beforehand that in the future, you need to pay a certain amount of money (for example, for subscription renewal), it probably makes sense to prepare some special UTXOs for that. Those UTXOs need to be completely isolated from each other and also from your other bitcoin addresses so that no one can have an idea of how much money you really have. However, you can't isolate your UTXOs just by casually transacting back and forth. You will have to utilize specific privacy techniques and different means for anonymization of bitcoin transactions in order to break the link between your "real" balance and your temporary payment addresses.

By keeping your addresses separate. If I receive 10 BTC to each of Addresses A, B, C, and D, which are all brand new addresses, then they are all separate as far as the blockchain is concerned. If I am careful to never combine them or any change outputs I generate from them in the same transaction, then they will remain separate. If I send you 5 BTC from Address A, you will be unaware of the 30 BTC I have in Address B, C, and D.

This question doesn't make sense. You can't send money you don't have.

No. Use coin control to exactly pick which outputs you want to use.

Depends on the outputs. If they have a single output of 1 BTC, then they must use that whole output to send 5 bucks and will receive the rest back as change. If they have 100 outputs of 0.01 BTC, then they can send 5 bucks but using just a single output of 0.01 BTC.

Correct.

Again, use coin control to select the output you want to use.

No. You have no guarantee your wallet will pick the output you want it to use. You need to use coin control to manually select the correct output.

No.

Store most of your coins in one account which you don't use very often, and then store small amounts of coins in a second account which you use to make purchases. And then from that second account, use coin control.

It's probably simpler if you'll utilize Ledger Live's "Accounts": support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404389482641-Add-your-accounts
Use separate accounts for various use-case; e.g.: one for small transactions with small balance and one for large transactions.
When sending coins, you can select the account to spend from in the drop-down menu "Account to debit".

And in the coin selection strategy, use "Minimize fees (optimize size)";
that will keep the transaction size small as much as possible and in the process, Ledger Live will most likely select a single input.

Of course, even with those set-up, you'll still need to check the created transaction if there are inputs that you do not want to be linked.

So if that is the case, then how are you getting much privacy then even when you generate a new receiving address everytime you receive btc or ltc?



So basically you need to make sure if you are planning to send btc or ltc from your nano ledger to someone else... make sure you receive enough btc or ltc first before you send them the btc or ltc... otherwise the person you are sending btc or ltc would know how much you have?  Or make sure your last receiving transaction before this, is enough to cover the amount you want to send?



So say someone has 1 BTC in their nano ledger s.  But now they want to send just 5 dollars worth of btc to someone else.  Then by sending 5 dollars worth of btc to someone... the receiver would somehow see the sender owns x amount of btc?  Thus that person could have 1 BTC in their nano ledger but it could be across say 5 or even 50 addresses?  So how would that person prevent himself to get exposed if he want to send 5 dollars worth of btc?  Request like 6 dollars worth of btc from a site to a new address... then send 5 dollars worth of btc to that person... so when they do that... the 5 dollars worth of btc will be coming from the new address so the receiver would only see small amount worth of btc?  



But does nano ledger always deduct btc from the last receiving address?  You say most likely but that isn't always?  Do remember electrum you could see how much btc are in each individual address... don't see that with nano ledger s.



So if someone wants to do small transactions when buying things online and don't want their nano ledger btc balance exposed, what would you suggest them to do?  Use a mobile wallet on the phone or download another software wallet on your pc like exodus or electrum and use that for small amounts?



Or use another crypto like LTC on nano ledger as that would be okay if you don't keep much a balance on it?  But what if in the future you get more LTC?  There is essentially the same risk if you make future payments and that person could check your history?  Thing here is i mean you are sending crypto to like a person and not exchange... so you don't know that much about them etc.  Not like an exchange where they have so many customers, they are looking at you etc.

Your question has too many variables you haven't considered for a yes/no answer.

Let's say I receive 50 BTC to Address A. I then also receive 5 BTC to the same Address A. Whenever I spend any amount of bitcoin from Address A, the recipient of that transaction will be able to see I own 55 BTC.

Let's say I receive 50 BTC to Address A. I then receive 5 BTC to a different Address B. If I spend the 5 BTC from Address B, the recipient will not know about Address A. That is, unless, I have linked Address A and Address B in a previous transaction. But if I don't specify which address to use, then my wallet might choose use Address A, and reveal the 50 BTC there to the recipient.

Let's say I receive 50 BTC to Address A. I then receive 5 BTC to a different Address B. If I spend 6 BTC, then that 6 BTC will likely come from Address A, and so the recipient will now I have 50 BTC at Address A, but will not know about the 5 BTC at Address B. Unless my wallet decides to use Addresses A and B together to consolidate the coins, in which case the recipient will know about the 55 BTC across both addresses.

And then you have to consider other transactions using the same addresses, or consolidating the change from such transactions.

If you want to avoid linking outputs at different addresses together, then you need to practice meticulous coin control. Or even better, use different wallets for different purposes so there is no way you slip up and accidentally include two outputs at different addresses you wanted to keep separate in the same transaction.

Yes!

• Quote from: nc50lc on May 10, 2022, 02:01:31 AM
  In this scenario, the transaction will use both as inputs, practically linking them together.
  

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Refer to the link @nc50lc posted about "Coin Control"... By default, LL uses the "oldest coin first ^[FIFO]", so regardless of the amount being 5 or 6 ltc, there would be a single input and it's going to be the 50 ltc one, but having said that, they can use the following option for the former:

• e.g.
  
  Quote from: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015996580-Using-Coin-control?docs=true
  (optional) Untick the checkboxes of the coins you don't want to include in the selection.

if there are inputs, wouldn't that mean it gets linked and the receiver could see a lot more than i want them?


Say someone bought 50 ltc.  Then bought another 5 ltc.  Now they going to send 6 ltc to someone.  Wouldn't the receiving person or site see the inputs and see... hey so this person received 50 ltc previously somewhere?  But had they sent max 5 ltc including fees... then the receiving person cannot see the 50 ltc address?

Yes, either one of the two is safe for your privacy....

In this scenario, the transaction will use both as inputs, practically linking them together.

Yes, there's the "Coins" tab in in Electrum where you can select specific inputs.
In Ledger Live, there's also a "Coin Control" feature: support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015996580-Using-Coin-control

Fee is mostly based from the transaction's size, more inputs & outputs means higher size, select one and it will be cheap.
In terms of anonymity, selecting two of more of those inputs will create a transaction that'll use those as inputs; thus, it will link them together.

Many won't be able to know how much btc you have since you use different receiving address for each transaction. If I am going to aee how much btc you have and I only know 1 transaction you made. Let's say, you have 2 btc received using receiving address #1 so, all I know is you have 2 btc in total even though you have 5 btc. About which btc address that you use to receive btc will be deducted first when you send a btc to your friend is I am not sure about which one will be deducted first but my guess is it depends on the wallet provider you use. What I have in mind is let's say that I have 3 btc in my address #1 and 2 btc in address #2 and I will send a 1.5 btc to my friend and the btc that will be deducted is address #2 which will be deducted by 1.5 btc plus transaction fee. That's what I think because each address have it's own private key.

So with the nano ledger s, everytime i want to send or receive btc, i would connect my nano ledger s and go to that app and get a new send or receive address.  Then go and send or withdraw btc with that address.



As long as you are generating a new address each time whether you are sending or receiving crypto to a site or someone else, then there would be no transaction history where they could check your wallet history correct?  i remember back when i used electrum, i used the same receiving address many times but then people said you should not do that.  So anyone that uses the same receiving address over again many times would mean the sites or people they send crypto to ... would not only know their wallet history but could figure out how much crypto that person has?



Now let say you want to install a new app on nano ledger and say its litecoin.  Now when you install it and get a receiving address the first time and receive litecoin the first time to it, when you send some of that litecoin to someone else, there obviously is no history at all right except they could see you received x amount of litecoin the first time?  But each time you receive litecoin later on, you generate a new address because that way... the site or person who wants to see your wallet history, they could only see the movement of those litecoin to only that address?



So say they sent you 6 litecoin.  Whether you keep it in your wallet or then send some to someone else, it will never show you will ever have more than 6 litecoin ever right if they wanted to see your history right?  So say next time you want lot of litecoin, let say 50 of them.  if a site or someone send you that much, you generate a new litecoin receiving address so the 50 litecoin would show there?  So you would have say 56 litecoin between two different addresses?



But now say you want to send say 0.5 ltc to a site.  Will that 0.5 ltc be subtracted from the 50 litecoin you received address or the 6 litecoin you received address earlier?  Have to assume its from the last 50 right?  But what if you send say 53 ltc to someone.  Would that mean 50 would be deducted from the last 50 ltc you received and 3 would be deducted from the 6 you first received so the remaining 3 ltc you have minus the sending fees is in that first ltc receiving address?



But say you receive ltc 6 times.  Each time you use different receiving address.  is there a way you could choose which ltc address you want to use to deduct the next time you send ltc to someone or this isn't possible?  i remember you could do something like this with electrum back then with change addresses with btc?  But if you do this, there would be more fees?   is there more anonymity to it?