Topic: Shit Hits the Fan: Australia joins US, India and Japan in Naval Exercise (Read 386 times)

China is a bigger threat to the world than terrorism! Many neighbor countries of China has already faced this heat like Pakistan, kazakhstan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet and so on. The list will only grow longer! Now "His highness" from China has removed the legal barrier to remain in power till the time he wants to! The world needs to re-think about their policies towards China and probably they would need to ban Chinese population from visiting their own countries. Regardless of the military prowess China posses, the world will have come forward to eliminate this threat!

What we are seeing is only the teaser of a whole film - Picture abhi baki hain mere dost!

Agreed on Taiwan. Other nations need a rethink on the "One China" policy. But then, Taiwan should also change its official name from "Republic of China" to "Republic of Taiwan", and give up their claim to Chinese mainland. "One country, two systems" logic doesn't work that well, as we have seen in the case of Hong Kong. Taiwan needs to remain independent and for that it needs the support from other nations.

Now more and more countries are being invited by America for military cooperation, Even the Indonesian defense minister, my country,
was invited by the US to discuss military cooperation between the two countries. Although the Indonesian government has told local media
that it does not want to be involved in a military alliance with foreigners. But the meeting of the two defense ministers invited question
marks from all parties, and news that the Chinese government certainly did not like. But I agree if my country is closer to America, because
I have always disliked communist countries.

Hongkong is a special economic zone, I do not think it will affect their economy, the selling point of Hongkong is its real estate and people from around the world are flocking there to buy one and I do not think that the brain drain will destroy the economy because besides having expensive real estate to fund the economy, it is also a tourist destination.
I wouldn't want to live in a communist country too, with stories from yesteryear about the hardships of the people living in communist states and atrocities committed by the people in those countries, it will be a definite pass for me. Democratic is the closest thing we have to a utopic government, if only the masses are actively participating in the community and they care about the social injustices happening then democracy will work as intended. But we can't have that because of human's primal instinct to compete with one another.

I think China just needs a setback from the world to make it understand that despite of it being an economic power the rest of the world is not too easy to handle. I think the first part from every country should begin by giving Taiwan a status of country and beginning diplomatic relations with Taiwan. The day a few big countries do it rest of the countries would follow. There cannot be a bigger setback to China than this it will have to surrender at some point.Obviously which democratic country would want itself to be ruled by a communist again? No matter how ruined your country is people of this century still prefer democracy.

The British government has offered a pathway to UK citizenship to around 3 million residents of Hong Kong, who have British National (Overseas) status. I am not sure how many of the residents are going to apply, but this is a big blow for China. If UK goes ahead with its plan, then it will trigger a massive brain drain and eventually it will destroy the HK economy. 

I can agree at a certain point, I think this is more of an intimidation tactic rather than glory for their country. Hongkong's case is that they are invalidating the agreement they had between United Kingdom that makes Hongkong free state until 2047, they do not see it as a resource expansion, this is more on One China Policy like the case with Taiwan with Taiwan not wanting to associate with Mainland China and wanting to be recognized as a country.

The human population is almost 8 billion and climbing at around 25 million per year. We are running out of natural resources and under these circumstances no region is a liability, irrespective of whether it is desert or mountain plateau. Two decades ago, Ethiopia and Eritrea had a war over a small desert strip, which killed more than 100,000 people.

But then, the case with China is different. They have territorial disputes with all their neighbors. Some of their neighbors (such as Pakistan and Kazakhstan) have given in to their demands. Others, such as Japan and India have refused to be bullied.

Well coming to territorial expansion of China. One thing I can tell you it's not about resources only. It's maybe more about pride or something. They fought harsh for Tibet which is more of a liability than a resource. It's a large piece of barren land with not much to offer. Similarly now they are fighting for some land in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh with India this land too is more or less barren and apart from having some strategic advantage is useless. HongKong and Taiwan maybe said as expansion for resources.

This is not a matter of who is leading the country, this is an agreement between four countries. Trump's presidency might have affected it in some way but I think that is besides the point. This so called Chinese interest in business, I do not think that they want just to do businesses. Remember that resources are limited and China knows this, so they decide to make a move by territorial expansion through financial and political leverage. The problem is that all of them do not know how to compromise and each country are trying to one up the other.

All of this would happen only if Trump wins the election. I think he is the one who started this whole campaign against China to which first China retaliated and then under aegis of USA, India i ls trying to retaliate too. But if Bidden wins I think we might see an altogether different China. Chinese are pretty simple I think they are just interested in business and won't create nuisance until you give them good business which obviously Bidden would support. But I know India won't take the first step in attacking China and China too would be reluctant to announce a full out war with any country so I feel these incidents are just skirmishes and nothing like WW3

LOL.. so you're saying that it is easy for someone to carry USB drives to the Tesla office, copy the data from their servers and then carry it outside? If that is the case, then the blame should be placed on Tesla and not on the Chinese hackers. That means that their security and surveillance system was pathetic. If they can't keep their innovations and data secure, then they don't deserve the ownership to those innovations.

Let's just look at the most talked about US company in 2020 - Tesla. Xpeng is being sued by Tesla for blatant theft of IP via USB thumb drives where source code was transferred by previous employees. This is not like where former VPs of on auto company like GM go to work for another company like Ford. In that an employee can take ideas and trend, not actually licensed knowledge. Tesla's case is currently waiting to go to trial. Although innocent until proven guilty, this is consistent with how Chinese corporations have worked for 30 years. Why reinvent the wheel when you can steel somebody else's bike.

If the trend of foreign companies switching their factories/production facilities from other countries that offer the same services as Chinese workers, it definitely can happen. I disagree when it comes to decline of Chinese products, yes the workforce will be hit but they have products that will surely not be affected by the downtrend in companies switching from other countries for production. They have the biggest tech companies in the world and agriculturally speaking, I think they will not lose.

Earlier Russia used to support Armenia and Turkey used to support Azerbaijan. This made sure that the status quo is maintained. But now the situation has changed. Russia has entered in to a lot of economic deals with Turkey and they are ready to sacrifice Armenia in return for $$$ from Turkey. On top of that, we have Donald Trump as the president in the United States and he is not much interested in listening to the pro-Democrat Armenian Americans.

AFAIK, China has a bigger naval forces right now. I do not know if this is true but they seem to be arming themselves.
The problem with their answer is that they are stepping into territories that are exclusive to neighboring countries. Do you think that it is okay they should not answer for their crimes, what are their stance in the Uyghurs reeducation/concentration camps? Shouldn't they answer to that right?
Why would you complain if you do not care about the others that are oppressed just so they can have that lavish lifestyle. Years of propaganda in my opinion have an effect to their citizen. The problem that I see with their use of technology compared to other countries is that they try to make a data out of how you live your life, even the people who visit your house is recorded. Also, they do not complain because they know what happens to those people.

Well.. I agree about the authoritarian nature of the Chinese government. But from what I have heard, the population is not complaining as long as the economy is going up. And talking about face recognition and other surveillance tactics, the so called "democratic" nations are also using them very often these days. And worse, in many cases they are using the Chinese technology and equipment for doing this.

If it's about the economy. They have already won against other nations during this pandemic. And for the going through of territories, I think no country can stop them anymore. It's being done a little by little and in different ways like China Debt Trap and going through with their water borders.

If the mods won't move it, then let's stay here.  

It is because they have a firm answer and decision that they will not abide by anybody unless it's their own government's decision to move or not.

Exercises are just show of force, it is a way of saying "look what I have" and that is it, there is really no point to them at all.

Look at Azerbaijan and Armenia right now, there is absolutely no way those two could ever be similar in fire power, right now AZ has turkey backing them as well so it is combined over 90 million population with automating drone strikes and far superior military power going against 3 million population and not even remotely closer to that level military power and you know what is the result is? They are in stalemate that is not going anywhere at all. Reason? Today's wars are not fought and won with guns, sure you can go kill people but it is not going to make it stop nor it won't make it further the cause.

Australia, India, Japan and the whole world can show what weapons they have, hell USA has x30-40 more power than China, but just because you have big guns doesn't mean you can attack and win.

https://qz.com/771727/chinas-factories-in-shenzhen-can-copy-products-at-breakneck-speed-and-its-time-for-the-rest-of-the-world-to-get-over-it/

This is from 2-3 years ago.

It still happens today even if its never discussed, mentioned or talked about.

They are the forefront if not already when it comes to new technology and mega cities, that I will give that to them. The problem with their economy is that most of it are inclusive and most of them are state sponsored or influenced. I agree that they innovate, you can clearly see it in the news, their face recognition technology and their state of the art surveillance system. Also worth mentioning the citizenship points that monitors their citizens behavior. One problem with these innovation is that this technology is used for a totalitarian purposes.

That is not the situation now. One or two decades ago, they were dependent on plagiarism and technology stealing. But now the Chinese are capable of doing innovation. Show me an example of any Chinese company being accused of plagiarism, in the past 2-3 years. It is not easy to replace the Chinese products from our markets. The reason is that no other company has the capability of manufacturing high-quality products at such affordable prices.

Interesting approach by the Indian government towards Chinese product. Do you have a link of the article because I am curious in regards to this niche in this trading relation between China and India. If anyone can provide a link thank you, I am not the only one that will be benifiting as this can help further this thread for other curious members.

These 4 countries have long been intense in forming Indo-Pacific alliances whose aim is to counter China's influence and maneuvers in Asia, especially in the South China Sea. Previously, America and Australia had built a joint military base in Papua New Guinea, the proximity of Japan and America also did not need to be questioned, while India, which had a dispute with China and Pakistan, certainly needed a deterrent effect from the presence of America and its allies in the Asian region.

In the end, there is no eternal allies or enemies, only eternal interest. Australia has long been close friends with the United States, although economically it continues to cooperate with China. Japan is similar although not the same as Australia Japan must take a position in taking a position. In the midst of competition between China and America, Japan and China are trading partners. In addition, Japan's position is needed to bridge the interests of Europe, America, and Southeast Asian countries.

For America, Trump is implementing a "containment policy" against China in which the last blockage is towards Southeast Asia which is now trying to blockade by America with the discourse of a collective security coalition which begins with an agreement between America, Australia, India, and Japan. It's just that the concentration of ASEAN countries is the South China Sea, the four countries are not part of the South China Sea so it is considered that this alliance will not compensate for China's dominance in this region, therefore more countries in ASEAN think this alliance will not contribute much to their interests.

China thought they will block the whole world with their all mighty tricks and world will bend before them to ask for mass production of stuff that is needed.

We all know how China broke the trust of everyone.

To overcome this problem, India has imposed as much as 300% import duty on any product that will be coming from China port. This is an effort to make more Indian products and boycott the Chinese items.

So yeah surely China will suffer a lot.

In addition to this they are also making tension on Indian borders. It’s a clear indication they are screwed badly. They will pay for it.

Who knows in WW3 there will be no country with name China. LOLZ.

Should I move it or let it stay here because I specifically talked about what are the possible economic implications of this tensions.
That is the saddest thing about this, China has been on due for answering their sanctions and they are not budging an inch because they know their place and capability in the world standing.

China --arguably-- doesn't contribute real value to global markets.

They only steal other peoples technology, designs. Copyrighted and patented products. Which means they're very replaceable.

 

@jossiel you’re right that this thread doesn’t belong here, and coming back to the topic China has been planning to become a super power and capture as many territories it can, and all of this was highlighted in Xi Jinping plan. Furthermore I’m not sure how do you’ll expect a war with China to happen, because even if China is defeated (which I doubt will happen) but even then how will the remaining countries restore the global economy as China is one of the biggest economy, and no other country can step in and immediately replace them.

Sources:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/05/22/commentary/world-commentary/china-really-want-dominate-world/

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/china-us-war/594793/

https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/why-there-wont-be-a-us-china-war/

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/china-now-world’s-largest-economy-we-shouldn’t-be-shocked-170719

That is a wishful thinking, reaching a billion dollars. The comparison is not the same, Iran is not a nuclear state and US made sure of that when they made a virus to stop the machine that enrich uranium. On the other hand, China sadly is a nuclear one. We know that US Capitalism and China Communism has been in standoff relation for a long time. The incident in the India and China border is still a fresh wound for both of the countries involved and rubbing salt by exercising provocation measures is not the best route.

The tension is getting higher everyday as long as China didn't stop from provoking many countries especially on their boarders and on South China Sea. The WAR is on the hand of China, I hope they wont do much to prevent a situation like this we can't really afford this one especially the developing countries who don't have much power when to protect their own territory.

It might not happen but the chances that a full scale conflict is still high. Remember that the India and China border conflict is still a fresh wound that both nations are trying to blame the other. I do not think this exercise is necessary because this only strum the wrong strings when it comes to resolving the conflict in diplomatic and peaceful way. Small scale wars should be resolved by the government of each nation and their people by agreeing to accept aide from countries, there are countries that do not want help which prolongs this easily solvable conflict if proper aide, be it military or economically.

The united states spearheads the majority of EU military operations in iraq, afghanistan and the middle east over the last 20 years. Those regions reside in the EU's backyard on the opposite side of the planet from the USA. I'm not certain if the united states and european union could be considered allies if americans are willing to travel to the other side of the planet to help the EU defend its interests. While the EU is unwilling to do the same to support US interests.

The EU's main driving focus has always been aggressive expansionism. To acquire as many nations under its border as possible. Why?

US TARP bailouts were issued to european banks, who then distributed funds as loans to flailing european governments. This trend of the US bailing out european banks, who then bailed out european governments through loans, continued for many years. It was the united states who saved the EU through bailouts, not china.




News sources have repeated over and over, thousands of times. Saying the united states "has no friends or allies with Donald Trump as President". The united states "lost" the support of the global community, and isolated itself, by raising tariffs on china. This is the common theme that has been repeated over the last 4 years. It could also be the reason only the USA, japan, india and australia are participating in the war game.

I agree china may not be up to the task and could economically implode the way the USSR did. Already we see power struggles between Xi Jinpeng and the communist party. Which could deteriorate into civil war or infighting which hurts their expansion efforts.





Shadow leaders of the world do not want World War III.

Its too large of a conflict and too difficult to control.

That doesn't rule out long term, human, suffering however. Unfortunately for us.

This is what's been going on for a while now and it seems China is winning.

All this show of arms is kind of old school. Australia is joining the naval exercises, yes, and it has made the news. It's been made into a big deal of sorts by political observers. But, mate, shopping in Australia gives you China feels. Everything is made in China. China is the largest trading partner of Australia.

I did a topic on that, the Belt and Road Initiative is an ambitious economic conquest of China that aims for a long term benefit. That is more scarier than armed conflict because they are involved in a countries which means that the CCP will be able to sway decisions in that country. China is still far from winning from this economic war because other countries are catching up as to what is happening and they are doing their best to prevent this veiled deceit from putting deep roots in many countries.

I think they should be involved because this could escalate into a nuclear warfare. Every country should actively participate in preventing our extinction because of conflict. Helping does not necessarily mean military.
I do not think that they should think about the debt they owe when a war could brew. What is the point of a prosperous economy when you are living in a nuclear winter theoretically.
Yeah, I do agree to that is why I said in my pot that they should make a less aggressive territorial approach towards their neighboring countries. Remember in Indian-China Border where there was an armed conflict between two forces. Definitely the allies of the US will help but we can't afford a full scale war, China knows this too that is why they are aggresive towards their neo-colonial expansion.
They did sold it pretty well then because I am living in South East Asia Region and my country is affected by this expansion too and our leader is neutered against China because he believes that CCP is our country's friend. I think this will pop some string into a WW3 because India back then did not want Australia to join the excercise out of respect for China.

This thread is relative to Politics & Society.

This won't happen.

I'm far from seeing them to be friendly as friendly as accepting the verdict of Internationa Tribunal regards to their neighboring countries about sea domination and ownership.

Remember how millennials and zoomers were spamming WW3 memes when there was tension between the US and Iran? This is even worse, because this is just a military exercise, they are conducted all the time, and they often look very provocative, like when they happen right next to someone's borders, because that's partially the point of a military exercise - to demonstrate your strength to your opponent. We are more like to see Bitcoin reach $1 billion than seeing a WW3 in the closest time.

Despite of the growing tension between these great countries, I still believe that WWIII wont happen this year or even next year because China can’t afford that war and yes we can’t afford to have that War too. Its good that US, Australia and Japan is supporting the small countries around South China Sea this can at least lower the tension and make a pressure to China not to do something bad. Though many wars between rebel and other countries are still happening right now, let’s pray for a WWIII not to happen because many will suffer again.

China is waging war against these allied powers for decades now, in the form of debt traps on small nations that are vital for the US and friends’ trade routes, imports and exports. They are doing it on African countries currently, with some countries in the Pacific and the largest one being the Philippines. Ridiculously, the Philippine government seem to be very cooperative of this setup to China, even agreeing to a joint natural gas expedition on the disputed Spratly islands in the West Philippine Sea.

All in all, everything is going towards China’s favor IMO, from a sociopolitical and economic standpoint. While most countries condemn China for their strategic overtaking of a country’s resources by offering debts and insane terms, most of these countries appear to be very careful on the words that they say.

a different type of war has already been taking place for over a decade now. an economical war with China being ahead while they keep increasing their foothold all around the world in different continents even in US.
my speculation is that in a couple of years an armed conflict is not going to even be possible because China will simply reply with "if you threaten us with conflict, we will crush  your economy and starve you to death".

China economic development, military strength, many more power country endowments are rising, if the hunger for global power gets into Chinese top priority then a doom is close.
The chinese are taking over boundaries from countries far off, my country is in a loan deal with china which to speculation threatens the sovereignty of part of my country.

China is really up for something, they are like playing chess as if their pieces are all queens, we can't see why they are doing this, for me they are wanting something global catastrophe to happen resulting to devastation to most countries. I find Chinese government as disrespectful one, especially with the UNCLOS agreement in west Philippine Sea, they started building artificial island and patrolling the whole area without even consulting.

China has the chance that they could do whatever they want and they would never be outvoted by another party, there is really no chance that the ruling party of China will ever lose, which gives them a big big advantage over other nations. India will probably answer because it is directly affecting them and that is why they will be capable of answering without fear of losing the votes, hell if they do not answer it would hurt them more so they have to answer. However there is a fear of losing votes from nations like USA and Australia.

Japan might be serious too because they are very close to china and they do not want china to ever feel like they could take anything from Japan neither, but let's be honest China is not bothering with Australia and USA, those are far away lands that they can't claim.

China has been active to warm up its relationship with ASEAN countries lately. As far as I can say, it was fairly successful with that. About 8-9 countries in ASEAN would stay by China's side or at least stay neutral if a war between China and the US happened.

However, I personally don't find any surprise that Australia joins the US, India and Japan in a naval excercise, providing that Australia is a member of the US' "Five Eyes". Its appearance is more like a claim that Australia is a close ally of the US.

Sure a direct conflict with the US is not something that China would want. Despite having a strong military force, China doesn't have any powerful allies, aside from Pakistan, Cambodia and some African countries. But what if China attacks to take control Taiwan? There would be a lot of scenarios here. I'm also against wars, but if China did that, and in fact it's very likely, then WW3 might come.

Should the EU be involved in something that is happening on the other side of the world? How much would it cost to send military forces to one such military exercise?

What should not be forgotten is that it was the Chinese who saved the EU in the last recession with huge amounts of money by entering various companies in countries that were or still are among the most influential in the EU (UK, Germany, France).

How much of Europe does China own?


I would not agree that China would risk a world war at this time or in the near future, because retaliation would be not only from the United States, but from all its allies - and China is not up to it, despite all its achievements and technological developments.

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Lorence.xD , WW3 is something that has been successfully sold (in the yellow press) for more than 70 years - I've heard about it all my life and believe me that such a war is not in anyone's interest. I have personally experienced one war in my life, and I can tell you that it is hell on earth, and WW3 might be the end for humanity given the atomic/chemical/biological arsenal we possess today.

Key points here.

The European Union is not participating
Which could indicate the EU leans in favor of global communism and is a strong ally of china.

China is expected to have at least six aircraft carrier battle groups by 2035
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2185081/china-will-build-4-nuclear-aircraft-carriers-drive-catch-us-navy

China claimed hawaii, micronesia and much of the world as their territory as far back as 2014
This could indicate they openly acknowledge their master plan is to expand across the pacific.
http://www.miniharm.com/2014/08/27/chinas-world-map-claims-hawaii-micronesia/

A war between the united states and china could already be rigged in china's favor
I won't go into detail here, unless someone really wants me to. Suffice it to say china was given many advantages. They were able to steal all of the relevent information on F-22 and F-35 fighters to build their own J-20. China was given sensitive missile and communications technology by past US Presidents. There's a long list of tech and industrial processes china was able to steal or arrange to have acquired. They've done it for decades with no crackdown or retaliation. Its gotten to a point where america defeating china in a military conflict is no longer guaranteed.

The Malabar exercise incited WW3 fear as Australia joins the naval exercise which is a clear indicator that India is fighting back the aggression by China because in the past they never asked for Australia as a respect. This is wild for politics and I believe that if China continues their aggressive campaign to increase territory and influence then their relations with neighbors will turn more sour than ever. The politic side is pretty obvious and what I want to hear is your thoughts on this news economically.

For me, China has to answer to the sanctions that was issued to them and pay what is due. They also need to fix their relation with their neighbors especially South China Sea/West Philippine Sea. Export and import crossing South China Sea, Indian Ocean will surely suffer because tensions are high on this hotspots.

Link of the article: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1350257/WW3-news-China-US-America-India-Japan-Australia-military-drills-navy-south-china-sea-ont/amp