Topic: Shorena - To -ve reped and removed from default trust (Read 1777 times)

Mabye invite me some time?


Id like to ad that I will change the ratings to neutral even though payment has received as long as the signature is removed. I changed other ratings as well, it makes no sense to insist that it stays here. Should not make a difference to you personally as you have me excluded anyway, but it might to OP and others.

/thread ?

node.jps PMed me to look at this thread.

I believe you should stop promoting a ponzi in your signature.  Shorena is well within his rights to leave you negative trust.

I also haven't seen Shorena at any of the god parties.

Rating doesn't depend on 'how obvious it is that it is a ponzi'  , you (now/at the moment) are promoting a ponzi so you deserve a negative trust.



Double Your Money In Just A Few Days, lol !

oh, why didnt you guys make this clear from the begining, rating depends on how obvious it is that it is a ponzi

Unlike the other case it's clear without any reasonable doubt that doubling site is a scam site. If you are willing to promote that site for money knowing people will lose theirs then I think you would be willing to do other untrustworthy things in the future.

Therefore yes I think you pose a thread to the community. Your negative trust will function as a warning so other people are extra cautious if dealing with you. That lowers that threat.

But now who is promoting a well know ponzi/scam site?

but i pose some kind of threat? noted
he only left after he got signature payment and the campaign ended

It must be clear here that we're not judging (if you want to use that word) that dice site but shorena's actions. For him to deserve negative trust it must be clear that site was an obvious scam without a considerable doubt.
There was an accusation and several people thought it was a scam but it seems several other people honestly thought they were just having problems with an employee and with the system.
The site was fishy and I would have refrained from promoting it but there wasn't enough evidence (or at least I can't find if) that it was a scam without doubt. Therefore I don't consider negative trust is deserved.
I was considering neutral feedback but because shorena has helped a lot to the community and has been fighting scammers I don't think any warning is required at all. I strongly don't think he represents a threat of any kind (if anything, the contrary).

Regarding "being afraid of DT users": that doesn't make any sense. If shorena, I or any other DT user is found to scam or do anything else clearly untrustworthy then that user will receive negative trust and will be removed from DT. Therefore their retaliation negative trust (if any) would be meaningless and therefore it wouldn't make sense to be afraid of such an user.

Pretty much this. I am happy to remove any negative trust I place when an issue is resolved - in this case when a person is no longer actively promoting a scam.

You are still promoting a ponzi/scam site , shorena ... no he is not promoting a scam. I think this is the simple difference between you and him.

I dont understand the reasoning here,

• I get negative trust for promoting what you guys consider a ponzi
• Shorena advertises a scam
• he does get negative rep

+1 for favouritism, there is more than enough evidence here against shorena, who has doublebot scammed?
I guess people here are afraid of people on DT

I know the post, whats your point?

That this[1] is the first post that should not taken into consideration by EcuaMobi and that it must be evident that dicebitco.in was a scam before it?

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9040795

do you remember now?

It was the day of the payout, the month was over. I dont know the exact time.


Here is the full list of participants btw -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/full-dicebitcoin-signature-campaign-continued-again-778953

ACCTseller was not enrolled in that signature campaign.

There is no reason to involve me in this. Thanks.

---

It is pretty clear that you are an alt of a scammer who has been around longer then your account's age would imply. You are creating the same kind of drama that the scammer/thief James Volpe of Melbourne, Australia liked to create with Quickseller

lol i see why quickseller is defending shorena, his alt was also involved
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9033498

#2 For congratulating me on my first drama thread. Im not very fond of it though.

#6 I think you missed the point. The point is I am not everywhere, nor do I try to be. Im out of cloud mining since hashie.

#7 wrong what? I have the feeling you dont want me to take you seriously.

#8 It was meant as an example that I am not perfect. I am not entirely sure I would make the same decision I did with dicebitco.in again. Should have could have is however not something I want to have a part in. I made my decision and if it turns out that I now deserve a negative rating for it, so be it.

@EcuaMobi:

This[1] is the thread Stunna openend when the skipped nonces happened. It includes a link[2] to the dicebitco.in main thread when the first people notices some "bug". I can give you some highlighty, but its probably better if you read up on your own after that. I dont want to influence your decision by cherry picking quotes. IIRC the campaign was run by the same two people running the casino. I joined september[3]. Mitchell and dooglus as escrow took over the campaign[4]. As you can see from the posts by the escrows it was not clear whether it was a scam or not. After some arguments have been passed Mitchell decided to pay out a large portion and let doog handle the rest[5]. Eventually the owners paid out on 1st Oct. The same day there was another claim that they are scamming as doog confirms here[6]. Whether or not I was still wearing the signature at that time I dont know.

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dicebitcoin-investment-dice-scam-774120
[2] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8715769
[3] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-fulldicebitcoin-make-the-most-out-of-your-sig-september-2014-758854
[4] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/full-dicebitcoin-signature-campaign-continued-776227
[5] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/full-dicebitcoin-signature-campaign-continued-again-778953
[6] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9057104

Well the board admins gave him the power, and we all just have to deal with that--it's one of the rules around here.  It's not your board, it's not mine.  And I think promoting a ponzi in a sig campaign is a poopy thing to do as well.  Life is full of double standards (if indeed it is a double standard, but it might not be), but what are you looking for here?  Sympathy?

PM:

OP, I haven't found evidence that site was an obvious/clear scam at that time. Most probably I'll add a neutral one but I'm still checking.

Like I said, I don't agree with shorena's conclusion that dicebitco.in was not a scam, however I find his reasoning to be fair as to why he does not think dicebitco.in is a scam.

It is not my job to be the thought police, and if I believe that someone genuinely believes something to not be a scam because of rational arguments then they are within their rights to advertise such business.

lol when he posted that argument it was already discovered to be a scam for about ~4 days
go back to the drawing board

you  obviously dont care about justice, why should i switch to another campaign? he didnt

shorena had made an argument defending his decision to keep his signature up (at the time) in that he believed that they were not a scam. In fact, he made such argument in a very post that you quoted, and such argument was the only thing that you sniped.

Although I disagree with his reasoning and his conclusion, I believe that his statement shows a lack of malice in advertising that scam. I also find it reasonable for someone to believe what shorea said in the quoted post.

With your signature on the other hand, it is simply not possible for that ponzi to not eventually end up scamming it's players.

edit:

I suspect that the OP might be slightly more involved in that scam then participating in it's signature campaign

Why are you wasting your time being butthurt over this though? Simply remove the scam sig you have now and move on to another legitimate campaign - problem solved.

It is a little like wasting computer cycles on useless work.

OK, everyone makes mistakes.... but, when its some-one like shorena nothing gets done, he didnt stop and he wasnt given negative trust

Everyone makes mistakes though. If someone stops promoting obvious scams and no longer promotes or wears their signatures then I peronally wouldn't give them negative trust.

Shorena contributes in many positive ways to the forum, so I see this as OP grasping at straws. 

If a site promotes itself as ponzi and lets users know there's a big risk then I wouldn't say it's an obvious scam. It's doubtful and it's arguably untrustworthy but not an obvious scam. Promoting itself as "100% guaranteed" is definitely a scam.


I know he was participating. What I don't know yet is if at that time it was an obvious scam or not.

further evidence here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778953.0;all
his name was listed which proves he was still participating

I feel Shorena is quite within his rights to leave negative trust, and newer members of the forum should be warned about sites like this so I applaud him ( and EcuaMobi for the above quoted ref).

There is always a loser on ponzi and "doubling" sites. While it is permitted to advertise such sites here on the forum, why is it surprising that people that care about integrity give you negative feedback?

#1 this should be in reputation.

#2 thanks quickseller

#3 thanks for giving me a chance to answer to the PM:


No, the negativ rating is for promoting a ponzi. I will remove it if you remove the signature before you get paid. You probably just misread that.

#4 Again, I am not a God and I never claimed to be one. If you want to worship me, fine. I will probably not listen to your prayers though.

#5 The person that put me in this position is BadBear.

#6 I cant and I wont be able to go against all scams. Argueing why I dont go against something else you consider a scam is not helping you in discussion. Its not relevant. If you think there are known scams that needs tagging from someone from default trust. There is a section for that -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0 Since people lately start to make the section a pain, I suggest you read this in advance -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scam-report-format-use-it-to-make-scam-reports-properly-260073

#7 My advertising for dicebitco.in has been explained at length. I might have been wrong about them, but to my knowledge they paid out everyone and closed shop. You might also notice that I still wear the rating I got for it.

#8 When I had doubt about a casino I advertised for I left the campaign and waived payment. They turned out to be honest.


@EcuaMobi: Yes I kept wearing the signature after it turned out they skipped nonces. The full story is that they also repaid those affected by skipped nonces. Firstly only those that lost, but later everyone else. The story was that they hired a 3rd person that patched in the skipped nonces, did a mistakes as they did not review the code before it went live. I can look up the relevant threads later if you want.

this sounds fair
ok, you can add the negative to his profile now

A lot of users were wearing dicebitco.in signature but before that it has been revealed 'scam' dice site.

TBH I don't know about that case. But a dice site is not an obvious scam until proved otherwise. Did he promote it even after it was an obvious a proven scam? I see he updated a previous positive trust to neutral after the scam was found.

On the other hand anything that "guarantees" always doubling your coins is an obvious scam.

To make it short: promoting a known/obvious scam deserves negative trust. Therefore I'm adding negative trust to you now. If you can prove without any doubts shorena was promoting that dice site after the scam was proved above reasonable doubt then I'll add negative trust to him too. Sounds fair?

In 2014, he was wearing the signature of dicebitco.in (as part of a signature campaign) even after it was discovered to be skipping nonces on a select number of user's rolls, and after it was alleged that they were using knowledge of the server seed to win large amounts of BTC of investor money.

Dicebitco.in was able to attract a lot of reputation because dooglus was endorsing it with his signature, being a moderator of their chat, publicly playing there and publicly investing several hundred BTC there, and he only withdrew his coins from the site hours before it was revealed that they were skipping nonces.

It doesnt matter if i attract more attention to myself, if they give me negative rating, it would be only fair to give shorena the same as he did the same thing

The only outcome that I see here is that you attract more attention to yourself and get more negative ratings. The trust rating is working as intended. You do realize OP that anyone is allowed to give you a negative if they don't trust you for any reason whatsoever?

Seems like the forum is full of mighty creations; we have wariors, a god, etc.

Can you stop joking, this is a serious matter, you give me negative trust for doing the same  thing shorena did but you didnt even drop a neutral on shorena's page, on a serious level, why not put a rating on his page?

this one https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dicebitcoin-investment-dice-scam-774120

OP so your point is that because you promote an obvious scam then shorena should receive negative trust and be removed from DT?


What scam exactly did shorena promote?

Yes, I am intimidated by Shorena. He is a mighty fighting keyboard warrior /s

Shorena advertised a scam even after it was discovered to be a scam, but you didnt even even tag him with a neutral ?
is it because of his trust rating? are you intimidated?

Have you considered removing the signature to the ponzi?

By advertising what is clearly a scam, you are potentially causing others to get scammed which makes you untrustworthy.

edit: congrats to Shorena for having one of these threads opened by a scammer about him

Shorena gave me negative trust for advertising a "ponzi" "knowingly" , who gave him the power to decide on wether or not people should have a bad reputation around here, where was God Shorena when that cloudmining website signature thing was happening? no-where , you know why? because if he tackled that campaign, he knew he was punching above his weight, so when doublebot pops up, he thinks its his chance,
I dont understand this person's way of thinking, he did virtually the same thing about a year ago but people on default trust are too scared to tag him
these are his points in why he is allowed to advertise a scam but other members arent allowed to because of their unworthiness (shorena thinks he is god)

I will post my arguments here.

I had coins invested with dicebitco.in and was able to completly divest and withdraw. people gamble on doublebot everyday, no-one had had any issues
Manl and Gerry paid out everyone (to my knowledge) that lost coins. everyone is getting paid at double bot
Those that have not been paid out are those that won coins. I think that is acceptable as they have more than they had before the incident and thus did not lose anything. While you can argue that the rolls are deterministic the gamblers are not, thus it makes no sense to argue in hindsight if and what they players would have risked would the nounces not have been skipped.
OH, they were scammed, but not scammed enough?


I agreed to wear their signature for a months and I will honor my agreement. so will I

I can see that you and other DT members have "double standards"